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(Daily Mail)   U.S. government to use "drones the size of golf balls to spy on American citizens." Let me just grab my 4-iron   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 186
    More: Scary, aerospace industry, U.S. Government, mid-air collision, anti-social behaviour, Aerovironment, american citizens, tablet computer, startup company  
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13655 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jun 2012 at 3:29 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-09 06:39:12 PM  
www.roseofsharonfarm.com

Tiny drones?

They've been around forever.
 
2012-06-09 06:50:50 PM  
rohar: Worse, I work on these technologies so I already had a pandora's box full of bad outcomes in my head.

Another hypothetical question: Say you're a respected senior physicist or EE. Your social conscience is important to you. You have a good acquaintance with human history, as well as dystopian sci-fi. At your day job, you work on atomic clocks at NIST. It's interesting but harmless stuff, with seemingly no potential for misuse

Oh, yeah, it's also 1980. After a series of highly-classified tests conducted by the military, the Reagan administration and its lackeys in Congress have allocated billions of dollars for full-scale development of the GPS system.

What would you have done? Would you have turned in your badge and told them to go jump in the lake, as I probably would have?

Drones seem like they could be the next GPS-like technology... a powerful, inevitable force that can be used for make life better or worse, and will probably accomplish some of both. I would work on them, but I would spend a hefty chunk of my salary/patent royalties/whatever buying civil-liberties "carbon credits" from organizations ranging from the ACLU to the EFF to the NRA.

Keep the social conscience, in other words, but recognize that being a naïve hippie refusenik or a wild-eyed protester will accomplish nothing but hosing your own 401(k).

The closer you are to the tip of the spear, so to speak, the more important it is to stay engaged, and monitor what your employer actually does with your work.
 
2012-06-09 06:56:03 PM  
i.dailymail.co.uk

North Golf Ball is Best Golf Ball.
 
2012-06-09 07:03:47 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: Keep the social conscience, in other words, but recognize that being a naïve hippie refusenik or a wild-eyed protester will accomplish nothing but hosing your own 401(k).

The closer you are to the tip of the spear, so to speak, the more important it is to stay engaged, and monitor what your employer actually does with your work.


you know i've been looking for rationalization for creating a human destroying nanovirus. awesome to finally have the moral green light!
 
2012-06-09 07:04:10 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: rohar: Worse, I work on these technologies so I already had a pandora's box full of bad outcomes in my head.

Another hypothetical question: Say you're a respected senior physicist or EE. Your social conscience is important to you. You have a good acquaintance with human history, as well as dystopian sci-fi. At your day job, you work on atomic clocks at NIST. It's interesting but harmless stuff, with seemingly no potential for misuse

Oh, yeah, it's also 1980. After a series of highly-classified tests conducted by the military, the Reagan administration and its lackeys in Congress have allocated billions of dollars for full-scale development of the GPS system.

What would you have done? Would you have turned in your badge and told them to go jump in the lake, as I probably would have?

Drones seem like they could be the next GPS-like technology... a powerful, inevitable force that can be used for make life better or worse, and will probably accomplish some of both. I would work on them, but I would spend a hefty chunk of my salary/patent royalties/whatever buying civil-liberties "carbon credits" from organizations ranging from the ACLU to the EFF to the NRA.

Keep the social conscience, in other words, but recognize that being a naïve hippie refusenik or a wild-eyed protester will accomplish nothing but hosing your own 401(k).

The closer you are to the tip of the spear, so to speak, the more important it is to stay engaged, and monitor what your employer actually does with your work.


Again, not quite the same. There's possibly 3 firms on the planet with systems that can understand the context of video context and trigger events based on them at this scale. The government isn't one of them and NONE of the firms are willing to let go of control. If, and I think it's more of a when than an if, these video sensors are connected to these systems, the intelligence will be in the hands of a corporationa, not the government. Feeds will come out of the choosing of that company, not the government.

The apple's too damned juicy for policing agencies to walk away. Eventually, a deal is gonna be struck. Whoever gets that contract gets a hell of a lot of control.
 
2012-06-09 07:11:16 PM  

ski9600: paygun: Man On Pink Corner:

I don't care who authorized it or came up with it. We can't the fark afford it! Quit spending my tax dollars on shiat like this!


Government spending during a recession trickles down.
 
2012-06-09 07:18:15 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com

It's been done.
 
2012-06-09 07:24:01 PM  

tuffsnake: I bet there will be a whole host of people getting massively butthurt over this who also have absolutely no problem letting private companies have all of their information.

/If you have done nothing wrong you should still worry because it only takes the creation of a new law to make something you're currently doing illegal


Too late. We are all criminals already. All of us. Without exception.
 
2012-06-09 07:25:18 PM  

rohar: There's possibly 3 firms on the planet with systems that can understand the context of video context and trigger events based on them at this scale.


That is not even remotely valid or relevant. Algorithms and sensor technology needed to do those things imperfectly and inefficiently have been available for years. Thanks to Moore's Law and other trends, "imperfect and inefficient" soon becomes "good enough." Meanwhile, the terms "Trade secret" and "Classified" now translate to "Ha, ha... oh, wait, you're serious? ROFL."

Give me a courtesy borrower card at the state university library and a few years locked in a room with an Internet-enabled PC, and I'll grasp the necessary technology as well as anyone does. Then, give me a few bucks and accounts on eBay and alibaba, and I will implement it. Even if my words are an empty boast (as they probably are; we're on the Internet after all), it won't matter in the slightest. China alone has about five million people with IQs over 140, right?

Like nukes and cameras and GNSS tracking and cheap desktop PCR machines, It will happen... so we have to deal with it, for values of "we" that include you and I. Hiding from autonomous surveillance technology is not an option, either literally or figuratively.
 
2012-06-09 07:27:28 PM  

DrPainMD: Too late. We are all criminals already. All of us. Without exception.


Right, and that is (hopefully) a good example of what I was saying earlier with the speeding-ticket analogy. If the police are perfect and the laws are applied equitably, those laws are going to have to change, along with the flawed process that made them.
 
2012-06-09 07:33:02 PM  
Came here for the Niven riffs. Thank you, thank you all.
 
2012-06-09 07:35:29 PM  
photos1.blogger.com
 
2012-06-09 07:35:34 PM  

LasersHurt: KimNorth: The government has been calling anyone who makes it over the border a "citizen" for a while now.

What the fark is with the sudden troll uptick? Lists are a-growing.


It is Troll breedin' season. I thought everyone knew that.

Sheesh!
 
2012-06-09 07:43:51 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: rohar: There's possibly 3 firms on the planet with systems that can understand the context of video context and trigger events based on them at this scale.

That is not even remotely valid or relevant. Algorithms and sensor technology needed to do those things imperfectly and inefficiently have been available for years. Thanks to Moore's Law and other trends, "imperfect and inefficient" soon becomes "good enough." Meanwhile, the terms "Trade secret" and "Classified" now translate to "Ha, ha... oh, wait, you're serious? ROFL."

Give me a courtesy borrower card at the state university library and a few years locked in a room with an Internet-enabled PC, and I'll grasp the necessary technology as well as anyone does. Then, give me a few bucks and accounts on eBay and alibaba, and I will implement it. Even if my words are an empty boast (as they probably are; we're on the Internet after all), it won't matter in the slightest. China alone has about five million people with IQs over 140, right?

Like nukes and cameras and GNSS tracking and cheap desktop PCR machines, It will happen... so we have to deal with it, for values of "we" that include you and I. Hiding from autonomous surveillance technology is not an option, either literally or figuratively.


But whoever controls the results of autonomous surveillance CAN hide. That's a big perk of the job.

So who is gonna control it?
 
2012-06-09 07:45:01 PM  
Im a hobbyist UAV maker, have several quadcopters. A golfball sized drone is highly unrealistic. You will be extremely limited in flight time, because the battery is by far the heaviest and bulkiest part of the craft, and the smaller the battery... the shorter your flight time. Beyond that, very small copters simply dont work if there is wind. Any decent wind at all, which is fairly guaranteed once you go a few hundred feet up, will carry that biatch wherever the hell it wants to, and throw it around in a highly erratic manor.

Camera stability is also a huge issue. Actual remote cameras on quadcopter type craft bounce around and vibrate like crazy if they are lightweight, we purposely use as heavy and large craft as we can to stabilize the shot, and even then it must be corrected by using stabilizing software in a post production process.

With all that said, at a blackhat type event recently we did see some crazy drone prototypes that can perch somewhere, and tap into an outside electrical source (even a power line), and procede to stream/broadcast video indefinitely. Its more like a remote camera that you can install without anyone seeing Bobs Generic Electrical van pull up and install it. Id be willing to bet agencies like the CIA are already using or testing real world versions of these in places like Pakistan.

but yeah... at the end of the day, bigger drones are typically better, for a lot of reasons.
 
2012-06-09 07:49:33 PM  
Needs to look more sinister, like so:

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-06-09 08:29:47 PM  

Gulper Eel: Needs to look more sinister, like so:

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 269x408]


+1
 
2012-06-09 08:34:02 PM  
I'd use my 7 iron here.
Serious?
 
2012-06-09 08:34:23 PM  

rohar: Man On Pink Corner: rohar: T

But whoever controls the results of autonomous surveillance CAN hide. That's a big perk of the job.

So who is gonna control it?


Been saying this since 9/11. As you know, it falls on Congress to be oversight. Their response has been disastrous for 11 years, the first 7 of which were enhanced by Bush administration. Imagine --- a generation of kids growing up that don't remember the US any different than a police state. That's the way it's apparently going to stay. These domestic surveillance trends are just sickening --- the surveillance never should have been funded in the first place. "Congress" my ass..."cowardly traitors".
 
2012-06-09 08:55:15 PM  
My old Louisville Slugger will give better results.
 
2012-06-09 11:18:54 PM  
Not nice!!!

www.anunews.net
 
2012-06-09 11:39:28 PM  
Tv meets technology. Tv show Dark Angel had surveillance drones that were armed with guns

www.technovelgy.com
 
2012-06-10 12:07:46 AM  

Man On Pink Corner: Oh, yeah, it's also 1980. After a series of highly-classified tests conducted by the military, the Reagan administration and its lackeys in Congress have allocated billions of dollars for full-scale development of the GPS system.


The 80s gave us a bunch of other great things like ATM machines that gave us quick access with a simple keying in of a PIN number...
 
2012-06-10 12:23:41 AM  

rohar: So who is gonna control it?


There's the rub, all right. :(
 
2012-06-10 12:24:44 AM  
The article says they can use drones as small as a golf ball. Not that they have drones as small as a golf ball. Sure they could make them, but it would be a very limited little thing that can be tossed around by a breeze. Who says golf ball drones fly at all? Maybe they are thrown through windows during a hostage crisis to see whats going on.
 
2012-06-10 12:36:55 AM  
How much energy would it take to make an EMP strong enough to get drones 500 ft up? Possible with commonly-available parts or impossible?
 
2012-06-10 12:43:43 AM  
True Story

Best friend's wife works for Lockheed south of Denver at the missile factory (euphemism).

Department picnic in 1994, he tells me later about a dragon fly that followed him around as if spying on him. Did not act like a dragon fly flitting about, but purposefully followed him around as if tracking him.

We mused on it, without evidence all we coud conclude is that whatever conspiracy we might theorize we would still be at least 20 years behind the curve such is the state of INFOSEC surveillance technology.

We Were Right
 
2012-06-10 12:54:10 AM  
I'll bet that they are already using bugs.
That's no stink bug.
 
2012-06-10 02:24:42 AM  

LasersHurt: Valid privacy concerns aside, has anyone ever seriously thought that new technology wouldn't get used?


Everybody, apparently.

Or else they thought it would only be used on our enemies because THIS IS AMURKA and we don't use that tekkie stuff on our own people. Or something.

On a related note, either that is one huge golfball in the picture, or that drone and the guys guarding it are way smaller than I usually expect soldiers and drones to be. I didn't realize we were breeding soldiers the size of hockey pucks; but there you are.
 
2012-06-10 06:54:12 AM  
sharetv.org
 
2012-06-10 07:01:38 AM  

2wolves: namatad: Someone has been reading The Diamond Age: Or, A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer

A lovely book.


The end sucked.
 
2012-06-10 07:04:15 AM  

namatad: On the other hand, I am in favor of injecting politicians, police, all public employees with tracker chips and having that information available in real time and historically.


There aren't any.
 
2012-06-10 07:20:45 AM  

rohar: Some days I hate FARK. Some days it actually filters in to design decisions at work. How farked up is that?


I've gotten at least three quite profitable designs/patents from Fark and/or ATS. Not always in a single conversation. Several times the threads I was posting to merged into MegaIdea.

The first was posting to a guy in a sub at dock watch, talking about inertial nav, then on another thread talking about light slowing down in some media, in some cases quite dramatically. Then the light bulb popped.

The latest was in a thread wherein someone brought up FCNT burning when exposed to low levels of laser light while I was posting about something quite different on another thread. That might contribute to something really big militarily. It's being looked into by top...men.
 
2012-06-10 07:36:08 AM  

Maul555: The article says they can use drones as small as a golf ball. Not that they have drones as small as a golf ball. Sure they could make them, but it would be a very limited little thing that can be tossed around by a breeze. Who says golf ball drones fly at all? Maybe they are thrown through windows during a hostage crisis to see whats going on.


Odd you should mention that. The DOD was doodling around with this about seven years ago - a project called ELASTIC: Expendable Local Area Sensors in a Tactically Interconnected Cluster.

Seems like I've heard that went on to bigger and better things. You got a bag full of various ELASTIC balls and a slingshot looking gadget, and you toss, drop, or slingshot them into various positions around the area you want to observe. The units link into a network and relay data to another location where you can do this nifty sensor fusion trick to generate views none of them have individually. Most interesting.

Oh, yeah, you can also get other nifty benefits - the units use impulse radio to link so you can use that in a sort of multistatic radar net between the ELASTIC modules to plot motion in the areas between the modules that you can't observe at all. You get location, speed, and direction, also a feel for size but that's conflated with other data you can't separate so it's only approximative.
 
2012-06-10 08:14:50 AM  
 
2012-06-10 10:16:23 AM  
I don't wanna live on this planet anymore.
 
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