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(CNN)   More and more twenty-somethings are entering the workforce and eschewing health insurance entirely because it's too expensive   (money.cnn.com) divider line 281
    More: Scary, Commonwealth Fund, doctor's visit, credit card debts, debts, health care  
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8302 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Jun 2012 at 3:42 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-09 06:54:13 AM  
People keep complaining that health insurance costs are too high. These people are stupid, in my opinion, because the real problem is that you need insurance to pay for health care.

You're complaining about the wrong thing people.
 
2012-06-09 06:57:15 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: If Boomers would start dieing or retiring, I'd be more than happy to get a better job and buy health insurance.


Boomers have to keep working to support their useless kids who don't have a job.
 
2012-06-09 06:57:23 AM  

batcookie: fark'emfeed'emfish: batcookie: uttertosh: batcookie: uttertosh: Here's a real head-scratcha: Whatever happened to the notion that we should all be allowed access to healthcare, regardless of social status? Is that not some anciently established human right in the '1st' world?

It's always been a relatively fringe belief, sadly. Greed and selfishness are much more universal in America

FTFY

Nope. Lack of acknowledgement that the problem is human corporate nature, no matter what the cultural affiliation, is also part of the problem. Our nature is something to be overcome by rationality. Unfortunately, for many humans, globablly speaking, they just don't care to overcome it.

had to do it

Yes, but corporations are made up of... say it with me now... PEOPLE.


There was a book, I think it was called the Greening Of America, it explained how people cease to be responsible people once there in the corporation. Just saying.
 
2012-06-09 06:58:49 AM  
I guess I'm pretty lucky:

Parent's health insurance --> Cheap college insurance --> work health plan

My work health plan doesn't come out of my pay check. Employer deposits money in my HSA account. Annual contributions = annual deductible. I've never been "out of pocket."

Moral of the story: Get a big boy job and you wont need to worry about insurance.
 
2012-06-09 07:03:08 AM  
I barely make enough money to pay $300 in rent every month, how the fark do you expect me to pay for health insurance?
 
2012-06-09 07:09:19 AM  

kmmontandon: Lando Lincoln: Good thing we won't have an individual mandate to force these freedom-loving kids to buy health insurance.


That's exactly right, we don't, not for two more years.

We do have a law that allows anyone up to the age of 26 to remain on their parent's insurance, of course, which I'm sure you will now express support for.


It's quite common that the parents have no, or have lost their insurance.
 
2012-06-09 07:10:12 AM  

Honest Bender: I guess I'm pretty lucky:

Parent's health insurance --> Cheap college insurance --> work health plan

My work health plan doesn't come out of my pay check. Employer deposits money in my HSA account. Annual contributions = annual deductible. I've never been "out of pocket."

Moral of the story: Get a big boy job and you wont need to worry about insurance.


You may not have noticed, but there aren't enough big boy jobs to go around any more. All of them are filled, except certain tech ones, which don't go to Americans, because they want big boy pay. FFS, lawyers are getting offered $10,000 a year to start.
 
2012-06-09 07:10:38 AM  

Interceptor1: People keep complaining that health insurance costs are too high. These people are stupid, in my opinion, because the real problem is that you need insurance to pay for health care.

You're complaining about the wrong thing people.


Sure and the legions of people that are employed to deal with the insurance companies trying to get them to pay cost nothing.
 
2012-06-09 07:12:09 AM  

Honest Bender: I guess I'm pretty lucky:

Parent's health insurance --> Cheap college insurance --> work health plan

My work health plan doesn't come out of my pay check. Employer deposits money in my HSA account. Annual contributions = annual deductible. I've never been "out of pocket."

Moral of the story: Get a big boy job and you wont need to worry about insurance.


Hope that works for you.
 
2012-06-09 07:20:24 AM  

ghare: Honest Bender: I guess I'm pretty lucky:

Parent's health insurance --> Cheap college insurance --> work health plan

My work health plan doesn't come out of my pay check. Employer deposits money in my HSA account. Annual contributions = annual deductible. I've never been "out of pocket."

Moral of the story: Get a big boy job and you wont need to worry about insurance.

You may not have noticed, but there aren't enough big boy jobs to go around any more. All of them are filled, except certain tech ones, which don't go to Americans, because they want big boy pay. FFS, lawyers are getting offered $10,000 a year to start.


.
.
As a person in the industry I can assure you that pay is not the issue, the issue is qualifications and knowledge. Indians know how to make computers, whereas Americans know who to use the computers that the Indians and others are writing the code for. We scoop up every American we can lay our hands on. Go to school and learn coding, design, and engineering I will give you a job yesterday.
 
2012-06-09 07:20:43 AM  

Well Armed Sheep: Yeah, 28, uninsured, mountains of medical debt from emergency surgeries when I was 18. I haven't ever really been able to make enough to pay it off. I had (what was sold as) medical insurance for a few years, through work (30 bucks from me, 30 from my employer a month.) But it turned out to be a scam. Tried to get insurance at a recent job and my portion was 75 a paycheck. Oh, well. I have had a sore on my leg for five years that won't go away, but I can't afford to do anything about it beyond when I went to a clinic and the doctor looked at it for two seconds before telling me to put some antibiotic cream on it, and if that doesn't work try an antifungal. Arseface then sent me a bill that was as huge as you'd expect for not fixing my problem.


I've seen the 1%ers here who have medical degress diss on the 99%ers for daring to go homeopathic or WebMD to try to resolve their issues, instead of always going to a hospital or urgent care (since adequate private practice is out of the question for the uninsured and underinsured). I've also been the 'docs don't know what the fk they're doing' route, and wondered if it would have been better to save money and time out of my day not bothering to go at all. Meanwhile, go to several boards dedicated to particular symptoms, and read over and over again about how doctors dismiss patient concerns, don't listen, overmedicate, tell patients the equivalent of 'because I said so' on top of 'it's nothing to worry about' when patients ask what's happening, and basically use patients as guinea pigs by understating risks.

If given a choice between spending $X, and not having a problem fixed, and spending no money and not having a problem fixed............I'm going with spending no money.
 
2012-06-09 07:24:29 AM  

david_gaithersburg: ghare: Honest Bender: I guess I'm pretty lucky:

Parent's health insurance --> Cheap college insurance --> work health plan

My work health plan doesn't come out of my pay check. Employer deposits money in my HSA account. Annual contributions = annual deductible. I've never been "out of pocket."

Moral of the story: Get a big boy job and you wont need to worry about insurance.

You may not have noticed, but there aren't enough big boy jobs to go around any more. All of them are filled, except certain tech ones, which don't go to Americans, because they want big boy pay. FFS, lawyers are getting offered $10,000 a year to start.

.
.
As a person in the industry I can assure you that pay is not the issue, the issue is qualifications and knowledge. Indians know how to make computers, whereas Americans know who to use the computers that the Indians and others are writing the code for. We scoop up every American we can lay our hands on. Go to school and learn coding, design, and engineering I will give you a job yesterday.


But then you pay them Indian prices LOL And if it really were that easy...................... why are you expecting more qualifications out of the Americans, than out of the Indians? Indians aren't making the computers when you're hiring them to do that coding and design. They're doing the coding and design.

This is some old 'hire illegals to construct shiatty houses but hire an American as overseer/supervisor' bullshiat, IT division.
 
2012-06-09 07:28:39 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: david_gaithersburg: ghare: Honest Bender: I guess I'm pretty lucky:

Parent's health insurance --> Cheap college insurance --> work health plan

My work health plan doesn't come out of my pay check. Employer deposits money in my HSA account. Annual contributions = annual deductible. I've never been "out of pocket."

Moral of the story: Get a big boy job and you wont need to worry about insurance.

You may not have noticed, but there aren't enough big boy jobs to go around any more. All of them are filled, except certain tech ones, which don't go to Americans, because they want big boy pay. FFS, lawyers are getting offered $10,000 a year to start.

.
.
As a person in the industry I can assure you that pay is not the issue, the issue is qualifications and knowledge. Indians know how to make computers, whereas Americans know who to use the computers that the Indians and others are writing the code for. We scoop up every American we can lay our hands on. Go to school and learn coding, design, and engineering I will give you a job yesterday.

But then you pay them Indian prices LOL And if it really were that easy...................... why are you expecting more qualifications out of the Americans, than out of the Indians? Indians aren't making the computers when you're hiring them to do that coding and design. They're doing the coding and design.

This is some old 'hire illegals to construct shiatty houses but hire an American as overseer/supervisor' bullshiat, IT division.


.
.
You got me. I'm paying $160,000, four weeks leave, 100% insurance, and 401(k) match to write code for the the Centers For Medicare and Medicaid Services. I'm sooo evil. Seriously, I'm trying to help you you farking asshat. Go to school and take something other than basket weaving, seriously.
 
2012-06-09 07:28:48 AM  

Honest Bender:

Moral of the story: Get a big boy job and you wont need to worry about insurance.


Let them eat cake.
 
2012-06-09 07:31:54 AM  

david_gaithersburg: . Go to school and learn coding, design, and engineering I will give you a job yesterday.


Spot me the dough to go to school to get the engineering degree and I'll have applied to your company THE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY.

Better yet, give a me a job that's not computer engineering (something I never wanted to do) like... I dunno... teaching and make it so as I can own a house, save money, etc without having to work two or more jobs just to make ends meet.

Meanwhile Adam Carolla's doing one job at a theater and making a month's salary in a day for basically whining with charisma on stage (he's good at what he does, don't get me wrong) but then claims us teachers need to make LESS money because we have too much time on our hands to have that second job. NOBODY WANTS THE SECOND JOB! It's something you NEED because all that "vacation" over summer breaks is UNPAID! Give us 12 decent paychecks a year and let us work like normal people instead of having to grade papers all night and mix drinks all weekend.
 
2012-06-09 07:34:28 AM  

batcookie: fark'emfeed'emfish: batcookie: uttertosh: batcookie: uttertosh: Here's a real head-scratcha: Whatever happened to the notion that we should all be allowed access to healthcare, regardless of social status? Is that not some anciently established human right in the '1st' world?

It's always been a relatively fringe belief, sadly. Greed and selfishness are much more universal in America

FTFY

Nope. Lack of acknowledgement that the problem is human corporate nature, no matter what the cultural affiliation, is also part of the problem. Our nature is something to be overcome by rationality. Unfortunately, for many humans, globablly speaking, they just don't care to overcome it.

had to do it

Yes, but corporations are made up of... say it with me now... PEOPLE.


PEOPLE... who are compartmentalized to the point that the bigger picture isn't recognizable, or who would piss in the wind by expressing their humanity
 
2012-06-09 07:39:35 AM  

some_beer_drinker: what does eschewing mean?


Chewing the keyboard's Esc key.
 
2012-06-09 07:41:31 AM  
More and more twenty-somethings have no idea what the word "eschew" means.
 
2012-06-09 07:44:21 AM  
For those confused by Subby's vocabulary:

Eschew is the sound Spaniards make when they sneeze. It is similar to the sound Americans make (ahchew).

thoughtbot-training.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2012-06-09 07:52:14 AM  

doglover: david_gaithersburg: . Go to school and learn coding, design, and engineering I will give you a job yesterday.

Spot me the dough to go to school to get the engineering degree and I'll have applied to your company THE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY.

Better yet, give a me a job that's not computer engineering (something I never wanted to do) like... I dunno... teaching and make it so as I can own a house, save money, etc without having to work two or more jobs just to make ends meet.

Meanwhile Adam Carolla's doing one job at a theater and making a month's salary in a day for basically whining with charisma on stage (he's good at what he does, don't get me wrong) but then claims us teachers need to make LESS money because we have too much time on our hands to have that second job. NOBODY WANTS THE SECOND JOB! It's something you NEED because all that "vacation" over summer breaks is UNPAID! Give us 12 decent paychecks a year and let us work like normal people instead of having to grade papers all night and mix drinks all weekend.

.
.
May I suggest that you consider picking vegetables in Alabama, they're hiring.
 
2012-06-09 07:53:34 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: If Boomers would start dieing or retiring, I'd be more than happy to get a better job and buy health insurance.


Try learning to spell, also. Just a suggestion.
 
2012-06-09 07:55:06 AM  

david_gaithersburg: doglover: david_gaithersburg: . Go to school and learn coding, design, and engineering I will give you a job yesterday.

Spot me the dough to go to school to get the engineering degree and I'll have applied to your company THE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY.

Better yet, give a me a job that's not computer engineering (something I never wanted to do) like... I dunno... teaching and make it so as I can own a house, save money, etc without having to work two or more jobs just to make ends meet.

Meanwhile Adam Carolla's doing one job at a theater and making a month's salary in a day for basically whining with charisma on stage (he's good at what he does, don't get me wrong) but then claims us teachers need to make LESS money because we have too much time on our hands to have that second job. NOBODY WANTS THE SECOND JOB! It's something you NEED because all that "vacation" over summer breaks is UNPAID! Give us 12 decent paychecks a year and let us work like normal people instead of having to grade papers all night and mix drinks all weekend.
.
.
May I suggest that you consider picking vegetables in Alabama, they're hiring.


May I suggest I wouldn't pick veggies in Alabama for all the Chi in Teana. Seriously Alabama? I'm from Pennsylvania. We have a LOT of orchards that need pickers. I could be Applejack... y'know if I got a sex change, a horseoplasty, and a tattoo on my ass.
 
2012-06-09 07:55:14 AM  
relcec: listen raven, you are out of your depth.
obamiconme.pastemagazine.com
 
2012-06-09 07:55:21 AM  
i have a catastrophic insurance plan at the moment, costs me just €60 per YEAR

and its a private plan

gosh i'm going to miss Europe :(
 
2012-06-09 07:56:05 AM  

david_gaithersburg: You got me. I'm paying $160,000, four weeks leave, 100% insurance, and 401(k) match to write code for the the Centers For Medicare and Medicaid Services. I'm sooo evil. Seriously, I'm trying to help you you farking asshat. Go to school and take something other than basket weaving, seriously.


Because when we are a nation full of highly credentialed knowledge workers we will all be employed!
 
2012-06-09 07:57:37 AM  

doglover: david_gaithersburg: . Go to school and learn coding, design, and engineering I will give you a job yesterday.

Spot me the dough to go to school to get the engineering degree and I'll have applied to your company THE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY.

Better yet, give a me a job that's not computer engineering (something I never wanted to do) like... I dunno... teaching and make it so as I can own a house, save money, etc without having to work two or more jobs just to make ends meet.

Meanwhile Adam Carolla's doing one job at a theater and making a month's salary in a day for basically whining with charisma on stage (he's good at what he does, don't get me wrong) but then claims us teachers need to make LESS money because we have too much time on our hands to have that second job. NOBODY WANTS THE SECOND JOB! It's something you NEED because all that "vacation" over summer breaks is UNPAID! Give us 12 decent paychecks a year and let us work like normal people instead of having to grade papers all night and mix drinks all weekend.


Don't you just hate it when employers only want to hire people for jobs that are actually related to the product or service they provide?
 
2012-06-09 07:59:14 AM  
Louisiana, hell yes!

Charity Hospital system?

Thank you Huey P.
 
2012-06-09 08:02:16 AM  

WhyteRaven74: relcec: listen raven, you are out of your depth. y

No I'm not out of my depth. I just happen to think insurance should have absolutely no say so in where someone goes to a doctor or a hospital, ever. You know, like in the rest of the world. Also, on the employer side, if you're not willing to take care of your employees, you shouldn't be running things.


Why should an employer be forced to pay for anything? If you don't like the pay and benefits, quit.

Depending on the outcome of the election and the SC case, you'll see many smaller employers dump their health care plans and perhaps offering employees a stipend to go get their own insurance on the exchanges that wil be set up.

And it goes without saying that limiting restrictions on care will increase medical costs and therefore insurance premiums.
 
2012-06-09 08:04:24 AM  

doglover: david_gaithersburg: . Go to school and learn coding, design, and engineering I will give you a job yesterday.

Spot me the dough to go to school to get the engineering degree and I'll have applied to your company THE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY.

Better yet, give a me a job that's not computer engineering (something I never wanted to do) like... I dunno... teaching and make it so as I can own a house, save money, etc without having to work two or more jobs just to make ends meet.

Meanwhile Adam Carolla's doing one job at a theater and making a month's salary in a day for basically whining with charisma on stage (he's good at what he does, don't get me wrong) but then claims us teachers need to make LESS money because we have too much time on our hands to have that second job. NOBODY WANTS THE SECOND JOB! It's something you NEED because all that "vacation" over summer breaks is UNPAID! Give us 12 decent paychecks a year and let us work like normal people instead of having to grade papers all night and mix drinks all weekend.


Don't really want to turn this into a teacher thread, but why should someone be paid for months while not working? I never met a teacher that graded papers all night. Sure a couple hours a few nights a week. They work 730-4 M-F with another six hours. So 46 hours a week for 8 months a year making $40k with amazing benefits.
 
2012-06-09 08:07:35 AM  

BMFPitt: Don't you just hate it when employers only want to hire people for jobs that are actually related to the product or service they provide?


Not really.

What I do hate is working 8 hours a day, days a week, and only being paid for 29.5 of those hours because of the color of my skin.
 
2012-06-09 08:08:28 AM  

oukewldave: Don't really want to turn this into a teacher thread, but why should someone be paid for months while not working? I never met a teacher that graded papers all night. Sure a couple hours a few nights a week. They work 730-4 M-F with another six hours. So 46 hours a week for 8 months a year making $40k with amazing benefits.


But you did.

I doubt they can get away with only 46 hours a week in the on-time. Plus, around here there are more and more year-round schools. I -think- that means they get several 20 day off periods, but unsure. None of them get anywhere near $40k until they teach for at least a decade. NC is 27th in the nation for teacher pay, so there are many, many states that are similar or worse.

University professors get good pay (~$60k in the social sciences at a public school) and summers off, and an extra 10-15k per course they teach in the summer. Why can't schoolteachers be paid a decent wage?
 
2012-06-09 08:12:09 AM  

david_gaithersburg: ....You got me. I'm paying $160,000, four weeks leave, 100% insurance, and 401(k) match to write code for the the Centers For Medicare and Medicaid Services. I'm sooo evil. Seriously, I'm trying to help you you farking asshat. Go to school and take something other than basket weaving, seriously.


OK, I'll play along: I'll sign up for school tomorrow: EXACTLY what classes do I have to take to get the job? Obviously I won't have any experience.
 
2012-06-09 08:13:18 AM  
The wife and I are both 26. She works for a small firm and I am self employed so employer health care isn't really on the table. A $2500 deductible plan is around $400-$500 a month last time I looked into it, maybe 2 months ago. A $5000 plan would bankrupt us if we had a serious issue so whats the point.

We have both delayed medical care and pay cash when we really need it. The really frustrating thing is you have no idea what anything will cost, ever. I don't understand how you can have almost anything non-medical done, even if it is completely custom, and get a quote relatively quickly. A doctor recommended my wife get a certain procedure done to treat chronic kidney infections, after a $1500 test showed nothing useful. He pretty much said he wasn't sure if it would help or not but it was the next thing he'd 'try'. She called around to a few different places that offered it and was told by almost all that they didn't know what it would cost, you have to talk to billing. So she calls the billing departments they all say they have no idea, they can only process claims after the fact when they have all the 'codes'. The best we wound up getting was a cost estimate of $500-$5000 or so. This is for a common procedure they do all day long. That is pretty damn helpful when you are trying to decide to take a shot at something or not.....

//CSB

I really wish health care got separated from people's jobs. I think we'd have a lot more options and people would realize how farked up this stuff is.
 
2012-06-09 08:14:49 AM  
Health care in 'Merica sux anyway.
Article is full of Obvious Man quotes that are brought to you by Oblivious Boy.

The numbskull neo-cons are running this joint into the schitter so they can pander to the 1% and dance about and pronounce "I'm rich too, I'm rich just like you."

FYI for Neo-Cons. The 1% don't like you. They don't want you in their Kountry Klubs. They don't want your kids dating theirs, They don't want you living next door, they don't want anything to do with you except to have you vote for their benefit.
Don't be stupid. If you were Alice Walton and worth 21 BILLION, would you want your progeny dating some mongrel from the Great Unwashed?

Eat the Rich "It's only class warefare if we fight back"
 
2012-06-09 08:15:29 AM  

oukewldave: So 46 hours a week for 8 months a year making $40k with amazing benefits.


*drool*

I could live with that. Currently I've been working contract jobs which pay a lot less and have 0 bennes and just about everyone I know is in the same boat. (different country, but it's not exactly unheard of in the US)

Most people I know in the States have lost their jobs recently and most of them haven't been able to find a good one to replace it. It's insane in some sectors. And while it seems like the easiest thing in the world to just go get another degree and get a job that way, when you're unemployed and already paying off a debt or two it's not the easiest thing in the world to get more schooling in. You can't even get a job at McDonald's anymore because they're not hiring.

Clearly the only solution is to make Space Marines and annex Canada, like I said earlier. It's the only sane option.
 
2012-06-09 08:16:35 AM  

Marcintosh: Health care in 'Merica sux anyway.
Article is full of Obvious Man quotes that are brought to you by Oblivious Boy.

The numbskull neo-cons are running this joint into the schitter so they can pander to the 1% and dance about and pronounce "I'm rich too, I'm rich just like you."

FYI for Neo-Cons. The 1% don't like you. They don't want you in their Kountry Klubs. They don't want your kids dating theirs, They don't want you living next door, they don't want anything to do with you except to have you vote for their benefit.
Don't be stupid. If you were Alice Walton and worth 21 BILLION, would you want your progeny dating some mongrel from the Great Unwashed?

Eat the Rich "It's only class warefare if we fight back"


Unfortunately, your average working class conservative voter will still vote for them because deep down, they really believe that some day that will be them at the top.
 
2012-06-09 08:17:02 AM  
Best damn country on the planet. Love it, leave it, or wander the last of you days in patchwork clothes.
 
2012-06-09 08:18:08 AM  

doglover: *drool*

I could live with that. Currently I've been working contract jobs which pay a lot less and have 0 bennes and just about everyone I know is in the same boat. (different country, but it's not exactly unheard of in the US)


That job doesn't exist in most states, and where it does you need a MA and several years of experience. Likely, to be qualified to teach something hard to find, like math or chemistry.
 
2012-06-09 08:18:26 AM  
From outside of the US the problems with you healthcare system boils down to this:

Too many greedy middle-men looking to make obscene profits
Too much greed on the part of goddamn stockholders
Too many really really stupid people conned by propaganda about FREEDOM! (USA FARK YEAH!)
Too many corrupt politicians in the pocket of lobbyists
 
2012-06-09 08:22:22 AM  

doglover: BMFPitt: Don't you just hate it when employers only want to hire people for jobs that are actually related to the product or service they provide?

Not really.

What I do hate is working 8 hours a day, days a week, and only being paid for 29.5 of those hours because of the color of my skin.


I hate delusions of persecution.
 
2012-06-09 08:26:12 AM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: From outside of the US the problems with you healthcare system boils down to this:

Too many greedy middle-men looking to make obscene profits
Too much greed on the part of goddamn stockholders
Too many really really stupid people conned by propaganda about FREEDOM! (USA FARK YEAH!)
Too many corrupt politicians in the pocket of lobbyists


Too many people not paying for their healthcare.
Lawyers successfully suing for excessive amounts.
Hospitals and doctors having to find some way to cover the costs.
Hospitals overcharging customers with insurance.
 
2012-06-09 08:26:55 AM  

Honest Bender: I guess I'm pretty lucky:

Parent's health insurance --> Cheap college insurance --> work health plan

My work health plan doesn't come out of my pay check. Employer deposits money in my HSA account. Annual contributions = annual deductible. I've never been "out of pocket."

Moral of the story: Get a big boy job and you wont need to worry about insurance.


Have a big boy job. Spent 4 years not being able to afford insurance (cheap college insurance? Yeah, try that when you get just enough between loans and a second job to pay rent and eat each semester!) to get it. Still have to pay some out of pocket expenses but I have it better than my parents who are both college educated, had "big boy" jobs, and now have no insurance due to under/unemployment (being laid off is a biatch when you're over 50). I get to watch helplessly as the cost of medical care eats them alive.

Moral of the story: there is so much wrong with this system that "socialism" should be the least of our worries
 
2012-06-09 08:28:14 AM  
WhyteRaven74

How about mandating all employers above a certain size provide top shelf insurance, actual insurance not PPO or HMO crap, with employees picking up no more than 5% of the premium?


Yea, go talk to the unions about that............

Employees (anywhere) are going to have to contribute more than 5% towards their premium, but I'll agree that 500-600/mo for crap coverage is insane.
 
2012-06-09 08:30:08 AM  
No offense guys, but your country is insane. Just upside-down, pants-on-head retardedly insane.

You know how many people don't have health care here in Canada?

ZERO.

Not a single soul in this country can't walk into any hospital for absolutely free whenever they need it. And it's awesome. And should be expected of a democratic country.

And then I read that link on the first page talking about debtor's prison. I seriously have no clue how that country has lasted this long. It's just over the top mind blowing.

Nothing against the citizens. In my experience American people are generally actually nicer than Canadians (we seem to have some arrogance problems for some weird reason). But the country and it's laws and such? Insane to the nth degree.
 
2012-06-09 08:30:31 AM  

badhatharry: Day_Old_Dutchie: From outside of the US the problems with you healthcare system boils down to this:

Too many greedy middle-men looking to make obscene profits
Too much greed on the part of goddamn stockholders
Too many really really stupid people conned by propaganda about FREEDOM! (USA FARK YEAH!)
Too many corrupt politicians in the pocket of lobbyists

Too many people not paying for their healthcare.
Lawyers successfully suing for excessive amounts.
Hospitals and doctors having to find some way to cover the costs.
Hospitals overcharging customers with insurance.


As a little followup to my own post, I think a lot of the problem is no clear competition among providers due to the inability of consumers to shop around in regards to price. Those that have insurance go where it is accepted, and those that don't really have no idea who is cheapest. Have you ever seen a comparison of providers based on cost? I havn't......
 
2012-06-09 08:40:32 AM  

ph0rk: doglover: *drool*

I could live with that. Currently I've been working contract jobs which pay a lot less and have 0 bennes and just about everyone I know is in the same boat. (different country, but it's not exactly unheard of in the US)

That job doesn't exist in most states, and where it does you need a MA and several years of experience. Likely, to be qualified to teach something hard to find, like math or chemistry.


Save the MA, I have all that. But I'm not in the states precisely because, as you pointed out, that "awesome" teaching job doesn't exist or can't be gotten by mere mortals.

Also, were I in the states I probbaly wouldn't teach unless I went back to zoos. If I'm willing to deal with your children for any length of time in a classroom and you're not ready to say this:

www.timswineblog.com

you've clearly never had to deal with children in a classroom. I can do it, have for years, and I'd still pay handsomely if someone was willing to put up with my own kids because damn I know your pain, soldier.

It's not even that much. $40k a year with bennes isn't exactly Guggenheim level expenditure when you're talking about the people who will be responsible for the welfare of your children for most of their childhood. That and force universities to stop gaming the system and hire some real professors again.
 
2012-06-09 08:46:33 AM  

NickelP: The wife and I are both 26. She works for a small firm and I am self employed so employer health care isn't really on the table. A $2500 deductible plan is around $400-$500 a month last time I looked into it, maybe 2 months ago. A $5000 plan would bankrupt us if we had a serious issue so whats the point.

We have both delayed medical care and pay cash when we really need it. The really frustrating thing is you have no idea what anything will cost, ever. I don't understand how you can have almost anything non-medical done, even if it is completely custom, and get a quote relatively quickly. A doctor recommended my wife get a certain procedure done to treat chronic kidney infections, after a $1500 test showed nothing useful. He pretty much said he wasn't sure if it would help or not but it was the next thing he'd 'try'. She called around to a few different places that offered it and was told by almost all that they didn't know what it would cost, you have to talk to billing. So she calls the billing departments they all say they have no idea, they can only process claims after the fact when they have all the 'codes'. The best we wound up getting was a cost estimate of $500-$5000 or so. This is for a common procedure they do all day long. That is pretty damn helpful when you are trying to decide to take a shot at something or not.....

//CSB

I really wish health care got separated from people's jobs. I think we'd have a lot more options and people would realize how farked up this stuff is.


So very true. I'm a vet so I'm pretty much expected to give an estimate for anything I do and justify the expense to the owner. I often have to discuss several different options before I even get started doing anything. It's annoying, but it makes sense.

I had a lot of fun at the dentist this past month when I asked how much the work they were planning to do would cost. I have insurance but it doesn't cover everything so I just wanted an idea of what my out-of-pocket would be. the dentist and his assistant were visibly uncomfortable for several minutes and it took two managers to even give me an idea (which wasn't accurate). I had the same issue with my doctor's office. I had a reaction to one of the meds he put me. It seemed pretty straightforward but he recommended a test just to make sure there wasn't a bacterial infection. He either didn't know or didn't think to tell me that the test was $300 (I have a $500 deductable). By the time I got the results (which were negative), I was fine because we had changed my meds anyway.

\Many of my clients say they wish their doctor was more like me
\\Many of them also have no idea that the $1000 I charge for major surgery is chump change compared to what a human hospital would charge for the same thing
 
2012-06-09 08:54:50 AM  

aiiee: that's not bright kids. Get the catastrophic coverage that only kicks in after 5000 has been spent. I'ts under 100/mo if you're under 30


Apparently, it'ss much better to force them to pay less than that, give them all the care they can handle for free, then force everyone else to try make up the difference in cost and
borrow the rest.

'To each according to his need, from each according to his ability, unless thats not enough, in which case we can borrow it from your grandchildren'
should be the motto of the Democratic Party.

/always made sure Ihad some form of catastrophic insurance.
 
2012-06-09 08:55:26 AM  

MayoSlather: This is one of the most judgemental posts I've read in a while with spectacularly ill conceived conclusions.


You want spectactularly ill-conceived, try New York's Medicaid program. More expensive than the next two state programs combined. Takes up almost half the state budget. Still does a shiatty job. Loaded with fraud. Doesn't even cover a million or so of the poor people it's supposed to cover.

As for judgmental, what...do we suddenly not have a problem with obesity? Smoking? Sexual stupidity? Excess in general?

Diabetes all by itself cost Medicare $45 billion three years ago.

And yet we have a gigantic agriculture subsidy program that pays big agribusiness to keep churning out processed crap food. We have a food stamp program that steers poor people to the processed crap food, and once they get good and fat and diabetic we have a Medicaid program to cut checks for providers to treat the diabetes.

This is so profoundly stupid, it can only be there by design.
 
2012-06-09 08:55:26 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: Mandates are what's making insurance so damned high. My wife absolutely cannot have any more kids yet Idaho has it mandated that she be covered for pregnancy. WTF? $300 a month more for a medical impossibility? Fark you I hope they all get ass cancer in airport bathrooms.


Sure thing Smeggy...can you Idaho folks roll out Larry Craig again for a bit so I can get on down to the public restroom at Boise airport and start working on my cancer?
 
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