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(Washington Post)   According to Charles Krauthammer, Wisconsin was an "Icarus moment" for unions, which basically means they had the temerity to approach the Sun God who deigns to provide them light and heat and so deserve a cold, watery death   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 249
    More: Dumbass, Charles Krauthammer, Icarus, Wisconsin, inflection points, AFSCME, Icarus moment, traditional conservatives, sun gods  
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819 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Jun 2012 at 1:50 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-08 10:15:10 AM
i.imgur.com

Lets replace this fish person wearing mickey mouse ears with Charles Krauthammer and see if viewers notice the difference.
 
2012-06-08 10:19:39 AM
You mean it's the moment when Democrats need to realize that if they want to retain union(White working class) votes they need to never talk about gun laws again. In fact, they need to come out with a plan to simplify the current laws. Wacko Liberals may work long hours for free, but they are a very small voting block, and politics is about getting all the votes you can.
 
2012-06-08 10:23:55 AM

WTF Indeed: You mean it's the moment when Democrats need to realize that if they want to retain union(White working class) votes they need to never talk about gun laws again. In fact, they need to come out with a plan to simplify the current laws. Wacko Liberals may work long hours for free, but they are a very small voting block, and politics is about getting all the votes you can.


Gun rights are literally the least important issue in this election. Democrats have basically surrendered on the issue. That Teabaggers still make it an issue proves that a) they aren't that bright, b) the NRA has a fantastic PR arm, and c) that discussing the issue will have no effect whatsoever on the Democrats electoral chances.
 
2012-06-08 10:28:25 AM
I'm so tempted to make an inappropriate joke about someone's being "earth bound."
 
2012-06-08 10:30:00 AM

Mentat: WTF Indeed: You mean it's the moment when Democrats need to realize that if they want to retain union(White working class) votes they need to never talk about gun laws again. In fact, they need to come out with a plan to simplify the current laws. Wacko Liberals may work long hours for free, but they are a very small voting block, and politics is about getting all the votes you can.

Gun rights are literally the least important issue in this election. Democrats have basically surrendered on the issue. That Teabaggers still make it an issue proves that a) they aren't that bright, b) the NRA has a fantastic PR arm, and c) that discussing the issue will have no effect whatsoever on the Democrats electoral chances.


What's really funny is that Romney has a horrifically anti-gun record while Obama has signed multiple pieces of legislation expanding gun rights.
 
2012-06-08 10:30:38 AM

Mentat: Gun rights are literally the least important issue in this election. Democrats have basically surrendered on the issue. That Teabaggers still make it an issue proves that a) they aren't that bright, b) the NRA has a fantastic PR arm, and c) that discussing the issue will have no effect whatsoever on the Democrats electoral chances.


I guess you've never walked into union meetings to talk about a candidate and got asked just two questions every time. "What's his stances on guns?" and "What's he gonna do about the illegals?"
 
2012-06-08 10:37:03 AM

WTF Indeed: Mentat: Gun rights are literally the least important issue in this election. Democrats have basically surrendered on the issue. That Teabaggers still make it an issue proves that a) they aren't that bright, b) the NRA has a fantastic PR arm, and c) that discussing the issue will have no effect whatsoever on the Democrats electoral chances.

I guess you've never walked into union meetings to talk about a candidate and got asked just two questions every time. "What's his stances on guns?" and "What's he gonna do about the illegals?"


well i think they'll probably like obama's record on both of those items, wacko liberal though he may be.
 
2012-06-08 10:37:19 AM
What's amazing is that Fox News is trying to spin this as "conservatives send a message to Obama", while exit polls from Tuesday's election had Obama up by 7 points over Romney in Wisconsin. So... which is it?
 
2012-06-08 10:43:17 AM

WTF Indeed: Mentat: Gun rights are literally the least important issue in this election. Democrats have basically surrendered on the issue. That Teabaggers still make it an issue proves that a) they aren't that bright, b) the NRA has a fantastic PR arm, and c) that discussing the issue will have no effect whatsoever on the Democrats electoral chances.

I guess you've never walked into union meetings to talk about a candidate and got asked just two questions every time. "What's his stances on guns?" and "What's he gonna do about the illegals?"


Again, the fact that people ask proves they aren't paying attention. The Republicans won that issue. It's over.
 
2012-06-08 10:47:39 AM

Mentat: Again, the fact that people ask proves they aren't paying attention. The Republicans won that issue. It's over.


So your answer to losing a very large voting block in America is to say "fark it" and move on?
 
2012-06-08 10:52:32 AM
Whereas Ohio voting down Issue 2 meant nothing, apparently.
 
2012-06-08 10:52:49 AM
I'm disappointed that the DNC and Obama didn't campaign harder in Wisconsin. I realize they were getting significantly outspent but Obama really is playing a very timid game. Why not be more aggressive and come out harder in support of your people? Good lord.

The one thing that pisses me off about Obama is that he really doesn't go aggressive on stuff. He talks a hard game sometimes but for example, what he did with respect to gay marriage was mix messages for a week, not campaign hard in NC for gay marriage at all, and then afterwards come out in support of it...after the farking vote was over! The guy thinks he is not popular anywhere and it shows when he avoids these contests when he could make a difference and actually has the right message. He should really take stands more often on things, and properly time it. If I were him I would have been campaigning in Wisconsin for Barrett and getting the DNC to pony up there, a month ago!

It's not about growing a pair. I think Obama has balls. The problem is he gets wishy washy on certain things, and doesn't flat out make tough decisions and then go public with them, or he comes out for things way too late.

And Republicans are spinning this as a blow to Obama's campaign chances ANYWAY! I mean FFS man!
 
2012-06-08 11:03:29 AM
Heh... The GOP bobbleheads sure do want people to believe the Wisconsin recall is a sign of things to come for the Obama Administration.
 
2012-06-08 11:10:51 AM
"Without the thumb of the state tilting the scale by coerced collection, union membership became truly voluntary. Result? Newly freed members rushed for the exits. In less than one year, AFSCME, the second-largest public-sector union in Wisconsin, has lost more than 50 percent of its membership."

Wow. If unions are so great, why did so many leave?
 
2012-06-08 11:13:16 AM

slayer199: "Without the thumb of the state tilting the scale by coerced collection, union membership became truly voluntary. Result? Newly freed members rushed for the exits. In less than one year, AFSCME, the second-largest public-sector union in Wisconsin, has lost more than 50 percent of its membership."

Wow. If unions are so great, why did so many leave?


i know right? i mean, if people won't continue to pay dues to a union after the whole value proposition of the union is stripped away by the state, what good are unions in general? stupid libs.
 
2012-06-08 11:26:13 AM

slayer199: "Without the thumb of the state tilting the scale by coerced collection, union membership became truly voluntary. Result? Newly freed members rushed for the exits. In less than one year, AFSCME, the second-largest public-sector union in Wisconsin, has lost more than 50 percent of its membership."

Wow. If unions are so great, why did so many leave?


Well, there are certainly a lot of free riders in our system who say "Well, I haven't been walled up in an abandoned coke oven at work for a while, so I don't need a union". But perhaps, just perhaps it has something to do with Walker saying "Hey, fark you guys.. I'll never give you a seat at the table ever again" and then cutting union member's take home pay 8-10% so that public workers don't have the expendable cash to pay union dues.

Additionally, a lot of the branches (chapters? I don't know what you call the individual units of the unions) of the various unions (AFSME included) declined to recertify because, on top of Walker refusing to let them have a seat on the table, he made it incredibly hard for them to even continue to function, by forcing them to hold elections to recertify every year and jump through various other hoops that many decided would take up all of their time, effort, and money so that it can't be used to actually, ya know, help workers... so what's the point of certifying?
 
2012-06-08 11:32:54 AM

thomps: i know right? i mean, if people won't continue to pay dues to a union after the whole value proposition of the union is stripped away by the state, what good are unions in general? stupid libs.


Yeah. It's a lot more practical for a worker to put the money he'd otherwise spend on union dues on some more guns, ammo, and explosives, for when he gets fed up enough to remind politicians and big business that legalizing worker strikes was a pragmatic political compromise to reduce other kinds of "negotiation" tactics.

/the peasants have always been revolting
//they're not revolting against the social order yet
 
2012-06-08 11:54:05 AM
I think people are missing the point here.

There's an essential problem with public sector unions. Unions exist to get the best deal for their members. That is not necessarily the best interest of the public or the taxpayer. With private sector unions, they do have a vested interest in seeing that the business is able to continue operations and remain competitive (something that GM and Chrysler discovered nearly too late). There isn't an unlimited well of funds for the public sector salaries or pensions. Taxes cannot continually be raised because eventually people will get fed up and leave which results in a smaller tax base and greater deficits. When things are in decline, it's unsustainable. Detroit is a perfect example of this phenomena.
 
2012-06-08 11:59:46 AM

slayer199: I think people are missing the point here.

There's an essential problem with public sector unions. Unions exist to get the best deal for their members. That is not necessarily the best interest of the public or the taxpayer. With private sector unions, they do have a vested interest in seeing that the business is able to continue operations and remain competitive (something that GM and Chrysler discovered nearly too late). There isn't an unlimited well of funds for the public sector salaries or pensions. Taxes cannot continually be raised because eventually people will get fed up and leave which results in a smaller tax base and greater deficits. When things are in decline, it's unsustainable. Detroit is a perfect example of this phenomena.


Why do people seem to think that unions just get whatever they want, always? It's "bargaining" not "we force the government to hand over unsustainably huge fistfulls of money on demand". Yes, they are trying to get the best deal for the worker, but the public sector unions in WI have agreed to cuts, freezes, and furloughs. They agreed to the benefit contributions that Walker asked for. All they want is the opportunity to continue to exist and sit at the table.
 
2012-06-08 01:04:18 PM

leftteffticle: All they want is the opportunity to continue to exist and sit at the table.


Why do Union Thugs hate America?
 
2012-06-08 01:26:09 PM

slayer199: I think people are missing the point here.

There's an essential problem with public sector unions. Unions exist to get the best deal for their members. That is not necessarily the best interest of the public or the taxpayer. With private sector unions, they do have a vested interest in seeing that the business is able to continue operations and remain competitive (something that GM and Chrysler discovered nearly too late). There isn't an unlimited well of funds for the public sector salaries or pensions. Taxes cannot continually be raised because eventually people will get fed up and leave which results in a smaller tax base and greater deficits. When things are in decline, it's unsustainable. Detroit is a perfect example of this phenomena.


You realize that many public workers do not pay into social security? That's why the "outrageous" pensions were so high- to compensate for the lack of social security. And most did retire early so they could work another job to get some social security because their pensions wouldnt be enough.

And Detroit was abandoned by GM /Ford/Crysler...they gave the workers a series ofaalary and benifit cuts and then left because they could get mexicans for pennies.

Not once did they think to cut the management salary or make a better product.
 
2012-06-08 01:34:56 PM
abagond.files.wordpress.com


UNION THUG
 
2012-06-08 01:53:53 PM

Jackson Herring: [abagond.files.wordpress.com image 640x480]

UNION THUG


Right, like I'm going to believe that. Next I bet you'll say he was some sort of Hollywood elitist Democrat or something.
 
2012-06-08 01:54:25 PM

slayer199: There's an essential problem with public sector unions. Unions exist to get the best deal for their members. That is not necessarily the best interest of the public or the taxpayer. With private sector unions, they do have a vested interest in seeing that the business is able to continue operations and remain competitive (something that GM and Chrysler discovered nearly too late). There isn't an unlimited well of funds for the public sector salaries or pensions. Taxes cannot continually be raised because eventually people will get fed up and leave which results in a smaller tax base and greater deficits. When things are in decline, it's unsustainable. Detroit is a perfect example of this phenomena.


Don't bring reason into a liberalderp thread bro!
 
2012-06-08 01:55:58 PM
A GIS for union thugs comes back with lame-o political cartoons and crude photoshops.

bitsblog.theconservativereader.com

I don't get it. These guys look totally cool, and I would like to join their gang.
 
2012-06-08 01:58:34 PM
Krauthammer doesn't have a leg to stand on
 
2012-06-08 02:01:59 PM
The thing about unions is when they do finally die at the hands of capitalist looters, people will start to realize why they existed.
 
2012-06-08 02:06:02 PM

HotWingConspiracy: The thing about unions is when they do finally die at the hands of capitalist looters, people will start to realize why they existed.


Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got til it's gone?
 
2012-06-08 02:07:28 PM

Diogenes: I'm so tempted to make an inappropriate joke about someone's being "earth bound."


I will do it for you:

ANSWER: A slinky and Charles Krauthammer.

QUESTION: What are two fun things to push down a flight of stairs?
 
2012-06-08 02:07:42 PM

LasersHurt: Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got til it's gone?


I am going to hurt you for this.
 
2012-06-08 02:09:39 PM
Yugh; we ran this stupid column in our local paper the other day and I just about gagged. Krauthammer's one of those people who doesn't even bother to couch his rhetoric in a frisson of "Unions are socialisms so if we get rid of them we'll have a better deal for everybody" language. He actually comes right out and says that employees need to learn their place and don't deserve collective bargaining rights, because all hail the mighty rich.
 
2012-06-08 02:09:43 PM

Soup4Bonnie: LasersHurt: Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got til it's gone?

I am going to hurt you for this.


Let it wash over you in waves. Mmm, that's good stuff.
 
2012-06-08 02:10:32 PM

slayer199: I think people are missing the point here.

There's an essential problem with public sector unions. Unions exist to get the best deal for their members. That is not necessarily the best interest of the public or the taxpayer. With private sector unions, they do have a vested interest in seeing that the business is able to continue operations and remain competitive (something that GM and Chrysler discovered nearly too late). There isn't an unlimited well of funds for the public sector salaries or pensions. Taxes cannot continually be raised because eventually people will get fed up and leave which results in a smaller tax base and greater deficits. When things are in decline, it's unsustainable. Detroit is a perfect example of this phenomena.


You are missing the point.
This is fark.

using your best caveman voice:
Unions good. Grunt.
People who no like unions, bad. Double grunt with a sneer.
 
2012-06-08 02:10:50 PM
Because Norma Rae nostalgia is not enough, and it hardly applied to government workers living better than the average taxpayer who supports them.

Really? My GF the police dispatcher lives better than the average taxpayer? Tell me when they have to save the life of a woman who's been stabbed repeatedly by her husband because he got mad at her for making a remark about a movie. Or when a guy barricades himself in his house with around twenty shotguns and assualt rifles and SWAT needs to get him.

There's been little objection to the changes in contribution levels, just quit painting them all as louts pulling in $75,000/yr just sit at a desk.
 
2012-06-08 02:10:57 PM

Rann Xerox: Diogenes: I'm so tempted to make an inappropriate joke about someone's being "earth bound."

I will do it for you:

ANSWER: A slinky and Charles Krauthammer.

QUESTION: What are two fun things to push down a flight of stairs?


Question: What do you call 1000 Wisconsin Public Employee Union organizers at the bottom of Lake Michigan?

Answer: a good farking start.
 
2012-06-08 02:11:47 PM
When your suppliers consolidate, they can increase their prices to you because there is less competition. This is capitalism. We love capitalism.

When your workers consolidate, they can increase the price of their labor because there is less competition. This is capitalism. We love capitalism. Soshulizm Rawrrrrrrrrrrrrr Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Marx

Totally.
 
2012-06-08 02:12:50 PM

HotWingConspiracy: The thing about unions is when they do finally die at the hands of capitalist looters, people will start to realize why they existed.


This. After a decade or so at the mercy of our corporate overlords, people will be begging to have unions back.

"Those who ignore history...etc, etc."
 
2012-06-08 02:12:51 PM

Rapmaster2000: A GIS for union thugs comes back with lame-o political cartoons and crude photoshops.

[bitsblog.theconservativereader.com image 400x287]

I don't get it. These guys look totally cool, and I would like to join their gang.


Shenanigans. I mean, none of them are even Black (Panthers).
 
2012-06-08 02:13:24 PM

leftteffticle: slayer199: I think people are missing the point here.

There's an essential problem with public sector unions. Unions exist to get the best deal for their members. That is not necessarily the best interest of the public or the taxpayer. With private sector unions, they do have a vested interest in seeing that the business is able to continue operations and remain competitive (something that GM and Chrysler discovered nearly too late). There isn't an unlimited well of funds for the public sector salaries or pensions. Taxes cannot continually be raised because eventually people will get fed up and leave which results in a smaller tax base and greater deficits. When things are in decline, it's unsustainable. Detroit is a perfect example of this phenomena.

Why do people seem to think that unions just get whatever they want, always? It's "bargaining" not "we force the government to hand over unsustainably huge fistfulls of money on demand". Yes, they are trying to get the best deal for the worker, but the public sector unions in WI have agreed to cuts, freezes, and furloughs. They agreed to the benefit contributions that Walker asked for. All they want is the opportunity to continue to exist and sit at the table.


They had their chance and they blew it.
They can't sit at the grown up table any more. That is what happens when you don't understand who is paying your salary and why.
 
2012-06-08 02:13:38 PM

LasersHurt: Let it wash over you in waves.


I'm sailing away.
 
2012-06-08 02:14:05 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: slayer199: I think people are missing the point here.

There's an essential problem with public sector unions. Unions exist to get the best deal for their members. That is not necessarily the best interest of the public or the taxpayer. With private sector unions, they do have a vested interest in seeing that the business is able to continue operations and remain competitive (something that GM and Chrysler discovered nearly too late). There isn't an unlimited well of funds for the public sector salaries or pensions. Taxes cannot continually be raised because eventually people will get fed up and leave which results in a smaller tax base and greater deficits. When things are in decline, it's unsustainable. Detroit is a perfect example of this phenomena.

You are missing the point.
This is fark.

using your best caveman voice:
Unions good. Grunt.
People who no like unions, bad. Double grunt with a sneer.



You both make compelling points. Go on.

//grunt grunt
 
2012-06-08 02:16:17 PM

LasersHurt: HotWingConspiracy: The thing about unions is when they do finally die at the hands of capitalist looters, people will start to realize why they existed.

Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got til it's gone?


The chicks in Cinderella were HOT
 
2012-06-08 02:16:25 PM

Old enough to know better: HotWingConspiracy: The thing about unions is when they do finally die at the hands of capitalist looters, people will start to realize why they existed.

This. After a decade or so at the mercy of our corporate overlords, weakpeople will be begging to have unions back.



ftfy.

there are still plenty of places that have unions.
 
2012-06-08 02:16:37 PM
I normally can't stand this guy, but I just read his Wiki page and it's interesting to say the least:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Krauthammer
 
2012-06-08 02:16:59 PM
A paralyzed man that champions only the strong survive rhetoric, a great example of your typical middle class republican.
 
2012-06-08 02:19:33 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: This. After a decade or so at the mercy of our corporate overlords, weakpeople will be begging to have unions back.



ftfy.

there are still plenty of places that have unions.


The most successful nations on the planet have no unions, they are all filled with strong people, amirite?
 
2012-06-08 02:19:53 PM

Headso: A paralyzed man that champions only the strong survive rhetoric, a great example of your typical middle class republican.


no his rhetoric is about personal responsibility, doing the best with what you have and no whining.
 
2012-06-08 02:20:55 PM
Where dreams give wing....
 
2012-06-08 02:22:24 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Headso: A paralyzed man that champions only the strong survive rhetoric, a great example of your typical middle class republican.

no his rhetoric is about personal responsibility, doing the best with what you have and no whining.


My rhetoric is also about personal responsiblity, doing the best with what I have and no whining... but I dont' let that stop me from going to Capitol Hill and getting billions in that sweet 0% interest bail out cash.
 
2012-06-08 02:23:44 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Old enough to know better: HotWingConspiracy: The thing about unions is when they do finally die at the hands of capitalist looters, people will start to realize why they existed.

This. After a decade or so at the mercy of our corporate overlords, weakpeople will be begging to have unions back.



ftfy.

there are still plenty of places that have unions.


img.photobucket.com
 
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