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(ABC)   Over 2,000 former NFL players sue the league for concealing information linking football-related injuries to long-term brain damage and long-term brain damage   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 101
    More: Interesting, NFL, Junior Seau, concussion, head-on collision, football  
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607 clicks; posted to Sports » on 07 Jun 2012 at 2:10 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-06-07 10:37:59 AM  
Their complaint alleges generally "The NFL instead produced industry-funded, biased, and falsified research that falsely claimed that concussive and sub-concussive head impacts in football do not present serious, life-altering risks." What specific false statements of fact were allegedly made in what document?

They used the word fraud. Under the rules of civil procedure a claim of fraud requires specific allegations of fact, as opposed to negligence where you can say "he negligently hit my car" and figure out the facts later.
 
2012-06-07 11:16:29 AM  
What? Plowing head first into 300 lb lineman every Sunday could be bad for me? Could cause long term consequences? Next you'll be telling me that smoking cigarettes is bad for my health
 
2012-06-07 11:29:59 AM  

jj325: What? Plowing head first into 300 lb lineman every Sunday could be bad for me? Could cause long term consequences? Next you'll be telling me that smoking cigarettes is bad for my health


I think the issue here is that the NFL systemically told the players that it wasn't bad for them.
 
2012-06-07 11:39:26 AM  

Howard Finkelstein: jj325: What? Plowing head first into 300 lb lineman every Sunday could be bad for me? Could cause long term consequences? Next you'll be telling me that smoking cigarettes is bad for my health

I think the issue here is that the NFL systemically told the players that it wasn't bad for them.


The cigarette industry did the same.
 
2012-06-07 12:11:29 PM  

Shakespeare's Monkey: The cigarette industry did the same.


Except there was no contractual relationship between smokers/tobacco companies.

By virtue of their business relationship, it's entirely possible that they have a claim here.

I have no idea if they do have a claim; just that it's possible.
 
2012-06-07 01:06:07 PM  

Howard Finkelstein: jj325: What? Plowing head first into 300 lb lineman every Sunday could be bad for me? Could cause long term consequences? Next you'll be telling me that smoking cigarettes is bad for my health

I think the issue here is that the NFL systemically told the players that it wasn't bad for them.


And they took that at face value?
 
2012-06-07 01:07:01 PM  

mattharvest: Shakespeare's Monkey: The cigarette industry did the same.

Except there was no contractual relationship between smokers/tobacco companies.

By virtue of their business relationship, it's entirely possible that they have a claim here.

I have no idea if they do have a claim; just that it's possible.


Anyone can sue anyone for anything, the question is whether or not the suit will be successful.

So, you've added nothing to the conversation. Good job!
 
2012-06-07 01:09:20 PM  
I bet they get some gift cards for NFL.com purchases and a couple of free tickets to a preseason game.

/it's football
//it's violent
///you signed up for it
 
2012-06-07 01:21:13 PM  
This is the "we didn't save our money" lawsuit, isn't it?
 
2012-06-07 01:31:33 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Anyone can sue anyone for anything, the question is whether or not the suit will be successful.

So, you've added nothing to the conversation. Good job!


Not really good at reading comprehension, are you?

My point was that, actually, they have a basis for a claim and so should survive summary judgment at this stage. I was responding to a comment that alleged, basically, that they wouldn't.

You're talking about the substance of the case, which I wasn't talking about.
 
2012-06-07 02:00:27 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Howard Finkelstein: jj325: What? Plowing head first into 300 lb lineman every Sunday could be bad for me? Could cause long term consequences? Next you'll be telling me that smoking cigarettes is bad for my health

I think the issue here is that the NFL systemically told the players that it wasn't bad for them.

And they took that at face value?


Have you ever noticed that few professional athletes go on to become rocket surgeons? There's a reason.
 
2012-06-07 02:15:25 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: This is the "we didn't save our money" lawsuit, isn't it?


I think it is partly this. I'd have a hard time believing that this would have much traction or support if it was a bunch of millionares suing the league.

Yet at the same time, the guys most at risk from these injuries were guys who didn't log long multi-million dollar careers. They might have gotten a few years in, made a few hundred grand, got a relatively small pension, and are now facing some serious health problems.

If the league had evidence that these risks were there, and knowingly held it from the players, they deserve to get their pants sued off, even if it is easy for us to sit here and say, "well, that can't be good for you"
 
2012-06-07 02:19:04 PM  
So to summarize:
The NFLPA is suing the NFL for salary caps in uncapped seasons.
The NFLPA is suing the NFL for suspending the bounty-gate players.
Retired players are suing the NFL over fraud and concussion stuff.
The Referees are locked out over contractual issues.
Nobody is willing to move to Los Angeles.

Is anything going the NFL's way this year?
 
2012-06-07 02:19:55 PM  
TheBeastOfYuccaFlats:
Anyone can sue anyone for anything, the question is whether or not the suit will be successful.

So, you've added nothing to the conversation. Good job!


pot/kettle

/skillet here
 
2012-06-07 02:22:05 PM  

Odd Bird: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats:
Anyone can sue anyone for anything, the question is whether or not the suit will be successful.

So, you've added nothing to the conversation. Good job!

pot/kettle

/skillet here


You have a handle!

/I'm a little teapot.
 
2012-06-07 02:22:58 PM  
So if this lawsuit goes through, what does the NFL do in the future? Enact a "no hitting" rule? Flags? Two-hand touch?
 
2012-06-07 02:31:17 PM  

jj325: What? Plowing head first into 300 lb lineman every Sunday could be bad for me? Could cause long term consequences? Next you'll be telling me that smoking cigarettes is bad for my health


The term punch-drunk, referring to a condition noted in boxers as a result of repeated blows to the head, became common in the 1920's. That football owners or players would be unaware that numerous blows to the head could have adverse effects is a little hard to believe.
 
2012-06-07 02:35:12 PM  
What about long term brain damage though?
 
2012-06-07 02:35:57 PM  

Hoboclown: So if this lawsuit goes through, what does the NFL do in the future? Enact a "no hitting" rule? Flags? Two-hand touch?


They could just not lie about the injury risks. "Hey, yes, this could turn your brain into cottage cheese. Make sure you take that into account when you plan your career."

The issue, of course, is that if the NFL admits that football can cause lingering brain damage, they're now on the hook for any medical care related to that as part of their health plan. Right now, when a retired player drools out a "I'm depressed and confused due to football related brain injuries and require treatment," the NFL can light a cigar with a $100 bill and say, "Not football related. We owe you nothing."
 
2012-06-07 02:37:29 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: This is the "we didn't save our money" lawsuit, isn't it?


Yes. Yes it is. What kind of moran doesn't know slamming his head into things isn't good for his health?
 
2012-06-07 02:38:45 PM  
With kickers like Chip Lohmiller (I mean really, a kicker?) included in this suit and other players who said they joined purely out of solidarity, eh, good luck fellas.
 
2012-06-07 02:40:54 PM  

InfrasonicTom: With kickers like Chip Lohmiller (I mean really, a kicker?) included in this suit and other players who said they joined purely out of solidarity, eh, good luck fellas.


The NFL concealed information about turf toe.
 
2012-06-07 02:43:54 PM  

Shakespeare's Monkey: Howard Finkelstein: jj325: What? Plowing head first into 300 lb lineman every Sunday could be bad for me? Could cause long term consequences? Next you'll be telling me that smoking cigarettes is bad for my health

I think the issue here is that the NFL systemically told the players that it wasn't bad for them.

The cigarette industry did the same.


3.bp.blogspot.com

They had help.
 
2012-06-07 02:44:38 PM  
I think a policy change that's simple and would eliminate the problem. When you receive a concussion, you are forced to retire from the NFL immediately.

If it is proven that a hit was intended to cause a concussion/head injury/whatever, then you must also immediately retire from the NFL.
 
2012-06-07 02:47:13 PM  

Hoboclown: So if this lawsuit goes through, what does the NFL do in the future? Enact a "no hitting" rule? Flags? Two-hand touch?


Touching sounds dangerous. How about laser tag?
 
2012-06-07 02:52:19 PM  
Well, here's hoping the players win. The NFL needs to go down hard. Like it or not, 50 years from now, people will be astonished that football was legal way back when.
 
2012-06-07 02:53:16 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: This is the "we didn't save our money" lawsuit, isn't it?


• Median NFL player salary: $770,000
• Average NFL career length: 3.5 years

If you don't get a really nice job after your playing career and don't give up the McMansion lifestyle, that money is going to run out in 20-30 years. People like Suze Orman are wanting regular people making high 5 figures to have over 1 million just to get from 67 to death. 2 million for 50+ years is not a lot at a upper middle class standard of living.

And of course many of the players in the suit are from this era.

In 1980, the average player's salary was $78,657.
 
2012-06-07 02:54:17 PM  

RumsfeldsReplacement: Well, here's hoping the players win. The NFL needs to go down hard. Like it or not, 50 years from now, people will be astonished that football was legal way back when.


Also, the sky will be plaid, Chickens will be the dominant form of life, and the Earth will be replaced as a planet by Pluto.
 
2012-06-07 02:56:34 PM  

simplicimus: That football owners or players would be unaware that numerous blows to the head could have adverse effects is a little hard to believe.


The NFL has repeatedly denied that this is true. Numerous blows to the head are not dangerous unless they cause an actual concussion, claims the NFL. And even then, a mere concussion only merits missing a few weeks.
 
2012-06-07 02:56:36 PM  

Hoboclown: So if this lawsuit goes through, what does the NFL do in the future? Enact a "no hitting" rule? Flags? Two-hand touch?



those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it....


i think within 15 years the football we know and love will be markedly differnt. You can decide if that's good or bad.

107 years ago, teddy roosevelt "strongly encouraged" (wink) the powers-that-be to clean up the sport after a slew of deaths. as this article notes, largely due to his intervention and encouragement, the FORWARD PASS came to part of the game, and the flying wedge was outlawed. just as there are today, there were probably football "purists" -- albeit the 1905 vintage -- that decried his efforts.

*shrug*
 
2012-06-07 02:56:51 PM  
you mean being hit thousands of times in the head isnt good for you?

i need a cigarette.
 
2012-06-07 02:59:59 PM  
It's time to replace them with robots and shiat.

Yes, there can be a robot lingerie football league for those of you who are into that sort of thing.
 
2012-06-07 03:06:59 PM  

t3knomanser: simplicimus: That football owners or players would be unaware that numerous blows to the head could have adverse effects is a little hard to believe.

The NFL has repeatedly denied that this is true. Numerous blows to the head are not dangerous unless they cause an actual concussion, claims the NFL. And even then, a mere concussion only merits missing a few weeks.


Then I would guess the NFL will lose.
 
2012-06-07 03:09:49 PM  

t3knomanser: Hoboclown: So if this lawsuit goes through, what does the NFL do in the future? Enact a "no hitting" rule? Flags? Two-hand touch?

They could just not lie about the injury risks. "Hey, yes, this could turn your brain into cottage cheese. Make sure you take that into account when you plan your career."

The issue, of course, is that if the NFL admits that football can cause lingering brain damage, they're now on the hook for any medical care related to that as part of their health plan. Right now, when a retired player drools out a "I'm depressed and confused due to football related brain injuries and require treatment," the NFL can light a cigar with a $100 bill and say, "Not football related. We owe you nothing."


When did they ever lie about the injury risks? That's the part of this I'm missing. It looks like the players are alleging the NFL basically financed fake research indicating professional football had no link to brain damage. What? Where is this research? Who did it and how were the players defrauded into playing professional football with it?

I don't think the league had information linking football to brain damage and covered it up until now. It seems more likely to me the league might have ignored the situation generally until forced to deal with it by more detailed specific studies suggesting the link that have come out in the last 5 or so years. That doesn't seem to be the basis of the players case though, they seem to be saying the NFL had information and concealed it or falsified the research and tricked the players with it.
 
2012-06-07 03:16:28 PM  

WhiskeySticks: It's time to replace them with robots and shiat.

Yes, there can be a robot lingerie football league for those of you who are into that sort of thing.


My all time favorite Jetsons episode.
 
2012-06-07 03:18:50 PM  
+1 subby

I snorted.
 
2012-06-07 03:19:59 PM  
Why stop with the NFL? What about suing the colleges? What about suing high schools?

/You want to sue me?

Sue everybody.
 
2012-06-07 03:24:44 PM  
perhaps you should have played baseball.

more money, longer careers!
 
2012-06-07 03:27:29 PM  

wearetheworld: Why stop with the NFL? What about suing the colleges? What about suing high schools?

/You want to sue me?

Sue everybody.


+1

It was a stupid act, but there were some real gems buried in there.

/I'll rap your f*cking head in with a ratchet.
 
2012-06-07 03:29:50 PM  

t3knomanser: Hoboclown: So if this lawsuit goes through, what does the NFL do in the future? Enact a "no hitting" rule? Flags? Two-hand touch?

They could just not lie about the injury risks. "Hey, yes, this could turn your brain into cottage cheese. Make sure you take that into account when you plan your career."

The issue, of course, is that if the NFL admits that football can cause lingering brain damage, they're now on the hook for any medical care related to that as part of their health plan. Right now, when a retired player drools out a "I'm depressed and confused due to football related brain injuries and require treatment," the NFL can light a cigar with a $100 bill and say, "Not football related. We owe you nothing."


Don't want to sound like I'm defending the NFL, but what do these guys expect? Using your head as a battering ram probably isn't conducive to your health later on in life. The NFL didn't warn these guys about how their joints would be shot by the time they hit 55 either. I played football through college, I have nerve damage in my shoulders, my ankles ache when the weather changes, my feel like absolute crap most of the time, all because of football. But I am intelligent enough to realize that would come with playing football for so long. I also knew using my head as a battering ram wouldn't do great things for my brain long term either.. Also the NFL needs to pony up some money for these older guys. That would probably shut most them up
 
2012-06-07 03:36:39 PM  
As I understand it, the lawsuits were already there, this is just a procedural issue where the existing lawsuits are bundled.

Anyway, the NFL is liable because once the studies on CTE came out, they didn't get out in front of it. They tried to discredit the doctors and just hoped the whole thing would go away. By ignoring the available data and not making it available to their players, they opened themselves up to lawsuits.
 
2012-06-07 03:38:02 PM  
If this means I no longer have to watch hours of Cardinal's Coach Whiz the Ego Machine and his band of dolts, idiots, felons, incompetents, drug fiends, ustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shiat-kickers and Methodists every Sunday, then I am very happy these ex-players are suing the living shiat out of the NFL.

Now, when do they file suit about the NFL hiding data concerning injuries from leg whips? Fingers to the eyes? After the play is over, giving him the business?
 
2012-06-07 03:42:26 PM  

wearetheworld: Why stop with the NFL? What about suing the colleges? What about suing high schools?

/You want to sue me?

Sue everybody.


It may become very difficult for small colleges and high schools to get insurance if they have a football program.
 
2012-06-07 03:42:46 PM  

BKITU: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Howard Finkelstein: jj325: What? Plowing head first into 300 lb lineman every Sunday could be bad for me? Could cause long term consequences? Next you'll be telling me that smoking cigarettes is bad for my health

I think the issue here is that the NFL systemically told the players that it wasn't bad for them.

And they took that at face value?

Have you ever noticed that few professional athletes go on to become rocket surgeons? There's a reason.


How many are genetically pre-disposed to being rocket surgeons in the first place? I'd venture to say less than .1%

Howard Finkelstein: jj325: What? Plowing head first into 300 lb lineman every Sunday could be bad for me? Could cause long term consequences? Next you'll be telling me that smoking cigarettes is bad for my health

I think the issue here is that the NFL systemically told the players that it wasn't bad for them.


I've heard so much herp-derp on this issue that I am not sure if this is true or not. If not, should I sue my employer (I.T. business) for not listing carpal tunnel as a workplace hazard if I get it? *rhetorical*
 
2012-06-07 03:42:57 PM  

AverageJoe77: t3knomanser: Hoboclown: So if this lawsuit goes through, what does the NFL do in the future? Enact a "no hitting" rule? Flags? Two-hand touch?

They could just not lie about the injury risks. "Hey, yes, this could turn your brain into cottage cheese. Make sure you take that into account when you plan your career."

The issue, of course, is that if the NFL admits that football can cause lingering brain damage, they're now on the hook for any medical care related to that as part of their health plan. Right now, when a retired player drools out a "I'm depressed and confused due to football related brain injuries and require treatment," the NFL can light a cigar with a $100 bill and say, "Not football related. We owe you nothing."

Don't want to sound like I'm defending the NFL, but what do these guys expect? Using your head as a battering ram probably isn't conducive to your health later on in life. The NFL didn't warn these guys about how their joints would be shot by the time they hit 55 either. I played football through college, I have nerve damage in my shoulders, my ankles ache when the weather changes, my feel like absolute crap most of the time, all because of football. But I am intelligent enough to realize that would come with playing football for so long. I also knew using my head as a battering ram wouldn't do great things for my brain long term either.. Also the NFL needs to pony up some money for these older guys. That would probably shut most them up


Good points, but why did you have to post this 5 times in 3 threads, one of which was about Kim Kardashian?
 
2012-06-07 03:43:43 PM  

wearetheworld: Why stop with the NFL? What about suing the colleges? What about suing high schools?

/You want to sue me?

Sue everybody.


And they can counter sue. See! It's the "service based economy" we have been promised. We all become lawyers and sue each other for a living. It'll be great!
 
2012-06-07 03:46:24 PM  

AverageJoe77: t3knomanser: Hoboclown: So if this lawsuit goes through, what does the NFL do in the future? Enact a "no hitting" rule? Flags? Two-hand touch?

They could just not lie about the injury risks. "Hey, yes, this could turn your brain into cottage cheese. Make sure you take that into account when you plan your career."

The issue, of course, is that if the NFL admits that football can cause lingering brain damage, they're now on the hook for any medical care related to that as part of their health plan. Right now, when a retired player drools out a "I'm depressed and confused due to football related brain injuries and require treatment," the NFL can light a cigar with a $100 bill and say, "Not football related. We owe you nothing."

Don't want to sound like I'm defending the NFL, but what do these guys expect? Using your head as a battering ram probably isn't conducive to your health later on in life. The NFL didn't warn these guys about how their joints would be shot by the time they hit 55 either. I played football through college, I have nerve damage in my shoulders, my ankles ache when the weather changes, my feel like absolute crap most of the time, all because of football. But I am intelligent enough to realize that would come with playing football for so long. I also knew using my head as a battering ram wouldn't do great things for my brain long term either.. Also the NFL needs to pony up some money for these older guys. That would probably shut most them up


You played football and your head is damaged. You are no longer intelligent enough to realize what you used to realize.
 
2012-06-07 03:49:55 PM  
Has anyone compiled a list of all the former players suing? It would be interesting to see how many are schlubs that couldn't hack after the dream was over and guys like Duerson who were genuinely afflicted. And the league doesn't need to worry about the talent pool, as long as there are poor people from Pensacola to Pamona there's going to be men and boys who will trade a few years off the ends of their lives for a shot at being famous and making more money than all their relations could ever fathom.
 
2012-06-07 03:58:42 PM  

LarryDan43: It may become very difficult for small colleges and high schools to get insurance if they have a football program.


That combined with the information age creating only more helicopter parents by the minute (in the span of time it took for me to write this comment, 12 different mothers just frantically looked on WebMd because junior sneezed) will eventually create drastic cuts into the feeder system.

I don't see the NFL making too many changes on their own accord, but sh*t will come crashing down eventually.
 
2012-06-07 04:01:57 PM  
I just assume most of them played football because their head was already damaged to begin with...kind of hard to pursue a "thinking" kind of career when you're dumber than a box of rocks while you know you're good at ramming your head into a large object running at full speed.
 
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