Penguin 83

the left wing media will air it anyway
Because conservative /libertarian bashing is their meal ticket

Ok. So by your 'logic', the 'left wing media' should be airing the Reagan bio too, right? right?

Tell me something, was the left wing media responsible for the 9-11 movies that made BUsh and Giuliani look like heroes? How could that be??? The left wing media hates republicans, don't they? Why on earth would they make those movies. Could it be that you're absolutely 100% full of shiat and have not a clue what you're talking about? Could it be that you simply repeat whatever the local radio talk dummy says?

However the left wing media will air it anyway
Because conservative /libertarian bashing is their meal ticket


Yeah, and we're hungry...

http://www.acq.osd.mil/ip/speeches/aerospace_def_finance_conference-5-5-2003.p df

Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
(Industrial Policy)
Aerospace and Defense Finance Conference/Department of
Navy Small Business Conference
New York/Millington, Tennessee
May 5-6, 2003
Stories from the War

Few of us in this room have ever been to war recently. The
closest I came was in 1991 when about 10 days into Desert
Storm, the Navy began capturing Iraqi prisoners of war from oil
rigs in the gulf. At the time, I was attached to a reserve POW
interrogation unit that drilled out of Floyd Bennett Field in
Brooklyn. As I heard the news that spring -like Saturday
morning in Manhattan, I spoke with my commanding officer
and then went downtown to stock up on sunscreen and other
supplies essential for an extended stay in a desert setting. I will
never forget the surreal-ness of overhearing young

Manhattanites arguing over whether to buy the $300 or $500
throw rug for their childs nursery; the Wall Street professionals
barely out of college discussing their drives to the Hamptons to
find summer rentals. All made possible because 19 year old
Americans are willing to fight our wars so that we can continue
our day to day routines.
Private Jessica Lynch is one of those 19 year olds. Raised in a
tin- roofed, white wood- framed home at the end of a single-
lane gravel road, Private Lynch enlisted in the Army the day her
older brother Jeffrey Jr. did -- and her sister Brandi, now 18, will
follow suit in August. The story of her capture and subsequent
rescue from an Iraqi hospital last week riveted the nation and
had many of the finest elements of this war: a tri- service
rescue operation carefully orchestrated by Army special
forces, Navy Seals, and the Marine Corps; a girl who resisted
capture with her last bullet and more; and an Iraqi lawyer who
wouldnt stand by while a woman was being abused and risked
his life numerous times to settle the score. Jessicas father, a

self-employed truck driver said that it was, growing up in the
country and woods, and by what her brother put her through
that prepared her for what she did last week.
And I think it is because we in this room understand that what
we do is for the 19 year olds like Jessica Lynch -- that makes
our defense industry different than any other in the world.
This war, like Operation Enduring Freedom, has also been
marked by a number of transformation firsts: the thirty year old
S-3 Viking launching Maverick for the first time; Navy P-3s
providing targeting information to our Air Force C-130 gunship
so that it could destroy an Iraqi patrol post threatening an oil
platform in the northern Persian Gulf; using the new F-117s for
the first time in combat with precision guided 2000 pound
bombs with only 2 hours time to prepare when normally a
typical stealth fighter mission requires six hours of meticulous
planning and the Navys first JDAM shot from an F-14 Tomcat.

Stories from the Home Front
The stories from the home front have been no less inspiring:
JDAM production rate has tripled from levels
planned prior to September 11th;
LGB production rate has nearly doubled with
significant unit cost reductions;
Honeywell established a second source for a critical
missile component in two days to avert a potential
delivery interruption.
These stories are the industrial base equivalent of the Jessica
Lynch story.
Longer term, there are other exciting developments in the
defense industrial base: more money andlikelymore
companies.

The FY04 Defense budget request submitted by the President is
about $380 billion. In constant year dollars, this is about 4%
more than the FY03 budget, which in turn was about 8% more
than the FY02 budget. The budget request includes $61.8 billion
for RDT&E a $7.9 billion increase over FY03; and $72.7 billion for
procurement a $4.0 billion increase over FY03. For the future,
were projecting a continuing upward budget trend from FY00
through FY09: 66% higher at the topline; 104% higher for
procurement; and 79% higher for RDT&E.
So much for more money. We also think that as the concept of
warfare and warfighting capabilities are being transformed, the
industry that will support defense must transform as well. The
defense industrial base today is a distillate of its prior form.
What were roughly 50 major U.S. defense suppliers in the 1980s
have become just a few highly-consolidated, cross-service,
cross-platform, prime contractors. Some pundits are
concerned about the allegedly excessive narrowing of the U.S.
defense industrial base. I believe that this narrowing is a sign

of the current watershed between platform-centered and
futuristic warfare. In fact, in this watershed, the industry giants
are uniquely positioned to provide us transformational,
network-centric, system-of-system solutions to knotty defense
problems. These firms are important to defense; but they are
not alone.
I believe that transformation, fueled by a robust defense
budget, will spawn dozens of new entrants to our defense
industrial base. There likely will be three major sources of the
innovative companies on which DoD will draw.
First, most of the legacy defense suppliers understand the
transformation mandate, and will change with the times.
Perhaps they will change by acquiring innovative emerging
defense suppliers or by expanding their product lines. Their
corporate names may remain the same, but their operating
divisions will have different names. They will be joined by
lower-tier firms that grow to be prime contractors.

The second source of new companies will be companies like
former toy manufacturer iRobot, now providing search and
reconnaissance tracked ground vehicles; or former surfboard
manufacturer Foam Matrix, now building wings for missiles and
UCAVs. These small, innovative companies initially fill critical
niche defense needs and ultimately may find enough markets
to achieve critical mass.
And third, there will be commercial companies or divisions of
companies that form around emerging defense requirements.
These could be pharmaceutical companies that take up the
challenge of chemical and biological defense and associated
vaccination programs. Or they could be entertainment
companies that apply their abilities in visualization to the
battlefield of tomorrow.
In DoD, our challenge is to leverage the sum total of our R&D
and acquisition policies, budgets, and decisions to create an

industrial environment that nurtures such firms that shapes an
industrial base that will supply 21st century warfighters as
effectively as it has prior generations of American men and
women in uniform.
The Way Ahead
When we finish Iraqi Freedom and start the reconstruction, this
Administration will have demonstrated to the world our ability to
engage across the entire national security spectrum.
Operation Enduring Freedom was the asymmetric war for which
we had no time to prepare: 26 days from 9/11 to the first strike.
Operation Iraqi Freedom was the war where we had the time to
prepare and fight in a more conventional mode but with the
benefit of cross-service and networked ways learned in OEF.
The nation- building and reconstruction will demonstrate that
once you can show sufficient dominance of a countrys
logistics infrastructure to flow humanitarian aid -- and more, the

magnanimity to do so you will have truly won the war. The
neighborhood is already starting to feel safer!
I want to close in thanking all of you for what you are doing for
us and our 19 year olds. Private Lynch said it best in a letter
from Kuwait, where she arrived with her unit in February. She
found time to write to home. And this is how that letter ended:
Keep me and all soldiers in your prayers and thoughts, and we
will do our best to protect you all.

i am truly sorry, pontechango.

these things that have been shown to me make me question reality, not to mention my own sanity.

it is not my call.

i did not ask for it.

-i'm just the witness.

not the judge.

Lynch's a pretentious whore who doesn't fear God. I even guess she's had sex before marriage. What a whore of Babylon.

For anyone saying we need AKs rathar than M-16, please go shoot these two yourself. I own one of each, a Breban underfolder AK, a Colt preban AR-15 (Civilian M-16, all mil spec).

The M-16 is much lighter and accurate and is just as reliable as my AK underfolder. Most likley, the reason these soldiers' M-16 jammed is because they maintanined them the way the where "supposed" to. They wheren't combat personnel. They where a maintnence crew and didn't expect to fight. Most of the troops actually doing the shooting don't maintaine their rifle the way the are supposed to due to the sand. They don't lube (Insert fark pun here). The sand in Iraqi dessert is more like flour, rather than the sand you find at the beach that's like salt or sugar. The sand sticks to the lube and cakes up, causing the bolt carrier to cycle slower and rub more against the upper reciever. The eventually, will make the rifle jam and hard to clean. Right now, fighting troops are using water and a .22 bore brush to clean thier rifles and it works very good. Also, if you're still thinking of Vietnam, the M-16 has evolved quite a lot since then. All of the reliablity issues they had in Nam have been solved.


You always hear about soldier picking up thier enemies' weapons because it's kind of tradition to do it. Roman soldiers keept the swords of the enemies they slew as a reminder. Also, it's called "The Spoils of War". Also, they may want a backup rifle to hang on to in case they run out of ammo for the main weapon. There is a lot of 7.62 x 39mm ammo in Iraqi military depots. Also, they are a hoot to shoot and when you're using someelse's ammo and got some free time (remember, some of the troops have built golf courses in the dessert to relax) to go jerk around. What better than to take and AK and fire it into some rubble to pass the time?
The AK is very reliable but it's much heavier but is poorly accurate even at 50 yards. American fighting tactics revolve around the m-16's abilities and disablities. If they switched to the AK, they'd have to change many of thier tactics. It's not good to do that in the middle of a war.

killing jfk did little for their cause...so they focus their hate on clinton to feel better about it.

hate clinton? surely you jest! clinton is the best thing to ever happen to the republican party! let's recap:

clinton gave us the first republican congress in over 40 years

clinton campaigned for mondale. mondale lost.

clinton campaigned for mcbride. mcbride lost.

clinton campaigned for davis. davis lost.

as clinton/mcauliffe continue to run the democrat party into the ground, the republicans just picked up two more governorships.

please, oh PLEASE, don't go away bill clinton!!!!

2004 presidential election prediction:

gwb: 46 states
dean: 4 states

penguin83

I think the movie is pure BS for the simple fact that it is based on media hype and the protagonist (Ms Lynch) does'nt

The movie that is coming out soon is based on the book by the Iraqi lawyer who gave her position to the military so she could get rescued. It's based on his account and the military version, so yes expect it to feature her going down in a blaze of glory after shooting 100 iraqis Governer Arnie style, beating another seven to death with her jammed gun, getting injured and tortured by Saddam himself while singing 'Oh say can you see' in her hospital bed, and a dangerous rescue complete with SAMS and hordes of screaming islamic fundamentalists fighting to keep the big breasted blond actress as their punching bag.

It prolly has a scene where the burly black suited rescuer bursts through the door just as the mad Iraqi scientist is trying to inject her with poison and she's valiantly holding him off with a crutch, rescuer saying 'Can I be of some assistance Ma'am?' and she'll say as they're flying off into the sunset 'God Save America' *lol*.

Anyway back to reality - I don't thinks she's profitting from the movie at all. Not sure but that's the impression I get from what I've read.

brigid

A badge for you it is then! *lol*

Would make a good photoshop thread wouldn't it :)

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin

And Clinton kicked both Bush I and Bob Dole's ass. Did you ever think that Mondale and Davis lost despite, not because of, Clinton's support?

Face it, if Clinton had been allowed to run for a third term, George Jr. never would have run, and like I said, there wouldn't be a single republican who could beat him.

Put yourself in her shoes... Her unit gets lost and then ambushed... She gets captured along with a few of her mates... Special Forces rescues her, and the entire nation idolizes her and brands her with an unwarranted "Hero" tag.

Though I'm sure she was traumatized and brutalized, surely is quite aware that she did not do anything heroic. Given the same situation, I would be very uncomfortable with the undeserved attention and would make an effort to get the truth out. Maybe she's a bit short on tact and eloquence, but she's only a 20 year old private. I can sympathize with her dilemma.

And... I don't fault her for taking the book/movie/whatever deal. Especially in a country were grown men get paid millions of dollars to play children's games. This is the land of opportunity, yes? Any of you would do the same thing.

Tad3tte,

I don't get a badge?????
I'm as uber-liberal as they come! I'm Canadian, fer chrissake!!! Ask any conservative, the Canadians are the scourge of the earth!!!

impaler, Everyone in the armed forces is trained for combat. That's what basic training is for. Truck drivers are not excused from keeping their weapons in working order. I'd be willing to cut them some slack, but jesus christ, you are in a war zone. You have to have enough common sense to keep your weapon working.

pontechango, fair enough. I admit I haven't kept up with what that guy was doing. If all that's the case, then he's just a leach and very possibly handed over the info knowing that he'd be set for life.

Bauer

Well, there will be a whole lot more to witness in the coming year. Bush won by a bare thread in 2000. That will not happen again. It is obvious now that they lied. Just keep telling what you know to be the truth and keep holding the vigil.

Join us at the massive, massive demonstrations at the Republican convention in NYC next year. If nothing else, it will be one hell of a party.

- organize now.

Great Mother of God!

This thread turned into a flamewar!

jdave34

Yep, one for you and all the others on the thread who deserve one. You know who you are ;)

I'm in good company. On Fark I always have been.

jdave34
I spoke with my local "radio talk dummy" and he agrees with me
YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE
IN CASE IT GETS FILTERED:
the best part of you ran down yo mommas leg
did your parents have any children that lived??
DOUCHEBAG

pontechango:

Join us at the massive, massive demonstrations at the Republican convention in NYC next year. If nothing else, it will be one hell of a party.

Get your nose out of the bag of glue. The republican gestapo will not allow any demonstrations at the convention next year. laws will be ignored or changed, but there's no way that the dirty bastards will allow any protest or dissent. They don't allow it now. Look at the bullshiat that the Secret Service are engaging in now to supress any protesters at Bush events.

-jessica knows right from wrong.

she is seeing the real truth...probably for the first time in her life.

i hope she can deal with being a part of the abomination and his mission.

there will be many that cannot deal with it.

-persecution ensues, will be her epitaph from the 'right'.

i wish her strength and peace.

penguin83

That wasn't nice.

pvt Lynch

i'd hit it.

penguin 83

Is that the best you've got? if you're sooooo smart, why haven't you rebutted my points? All you seem capable of doing is getting more and more insulting and agitated. In fact, I will no longer point out what an idiot you are. You're doing a lovely job on your own. Do you even have a clue how moronic you look? If you're an example of a typical conservative, it's a miracle you can get your shoes on without marking 'L' and 'R' on each one, much less form a political party to be reckoned with. A few words of advice: Pants before shoes. Getting dressed is much easier that way.

jdave34

Get your nose out of the bag of glue. The republican gestapo will not allow any demonstrations at the convention next year. laws will be ignored or changed, but there's no way that the dirty bastards will allow any protest or dissent. They don't allow it now. Look at the bullshiat that the Secret Service are engaging in now to supress any protesters at Bush events.

It won't be easy for them and it could get really nasty and scary. Judging by the February 15 protest against the war, their convention will be very, very unpopular there.

Meanwhile, the Democrats will be shutting down my home city for their convention.

pontechango

Cripes, Bauer, there's no need for that kind of morbid cynicism now.

He's morbidly cynical, most days I'm still furiously angry.

I expect the mood to improve drastically around this time next year ;)

There are plenty things about the Jessica Lynch story that makes me sick.

1. The Conflicting stories on how Jessica Lynch was captured, held in captivity, and rescued. That story changed more times promos to the movies The Core

2. The misuse of the word hero. Someone once said "I'm sick and tired of people being called a hero because of their misfortune." There's a for people in serious situations where they are praying for a miracle (Jessica Lynch, ELizabeth Smart): Damsels In Distress.

3. The way the US went to war. I do support the troops, but I didn't support the war. I didn't support the way we got to war. They used inaccurate intelligence. They haven't found those weapons of mass destructions.

4. Other stories in Iraq! No you anything about her unit members that didn't come home alive. No movie deals, no book deals, no heroes welcome. What about the 7 soliders that were held hostage and rescued? Where are their stories? Oh I forget! It wasn't a made for hollywood story.

In Rod We Trust.

I spoke with my local "radio talk dummy" and he agrees with me
YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE
IN CASE IT GETS FILTERED:
the best part of you ran down yo mommas leg
did your parents have any children that lived??
DOUCHEBAG

Wow, I bet jdave34 is bawlin his eyes out.

gawd, I love Fark. :)

jdave34

dang, you clinton appoligists are a riot!!! one of the reasons attributed to algore's loss was that al didn't distance himself far enough from clinton and his scandals. that's hardly bides well for clinton.

clinton kicked both Bush I ass? again, lets try and teach you dems a little history:

clinton: 44,909,806 votes
bush I: 39,104,550 votes
perot: 19,742,240 votes

hardly an ass kicking. but that vote tally does bring up an interesting point... perot far outswayed the election results than nader did, but all you hear about are the democrats whining about nader. republicans, when they lose, move on and don't constantly whine about things.

yes, dole was a bad choice as a presidential candidate. i didn't even vote for him.

as far as clinton being voted in for a third term... hardly. if this was the case, then algore woulda been a shoe in. for example - ronald reagan couldn't be voted in for a third time so people overwhelmingly picked Bush I even though he wasn't a strong candidate. to further prove this country really never had a love affair (perhaps a bad choice of words when discussing clinton) with bill clinton, just look at the vote tallies:

1984 Reagan votes: 54,455,075
1988 Bush I votes: 48,886,588
1992 clinton votes: 44,909,806
1996 clinton votes: 47,402,357
2000 GWB votes: 50,459,624

Reagan, Bush I and Bush II all beat clinton.

now, is there anything else i can school you on, jdave34?

Yea, OK, blame the Pentagon. Meanwhile it was herself and the media making shiat up.

airzonk,

For anyone saying we need AKs rathar than M-16, please go shoot these two yourself.

I have shot both of these, and while the AKs aren't quite as accurate as the M16s, they are much better suited for the desert environment.

The sand sticks to the lube and cakes up, causing the bolt carrier to cycle slower and rub more against the upper reciever. The eventually, will make the rifle jam and hard to clean.

Any sand sticks to the bolt if you use too much lube. However, as I said earlier, the M16 and M4 like to jam up even under optimal conditions with good maintenance.

Right now, fighting troops are using water and a .22 bore brush to clean thier rifles and it works very good

Will someone here please inform airzonk why you don't use water to clean a weapon. I'm really not in the mood to explain it.

2003-11-09 03:17:03 PM pontechango

a_cure_for_gravity

Sounds like you might have already known that "If you are not with us then you are against us" was popularized by Lenin.

Lenin was smarter and more diplomatic than that. He's the one who coined the term 'useful idiots' for Western socialists who supported the Bolsheviks but who, had they been in Russia, would be exiled, imprisoned or shot.

The 'if you're not with us your against us' was more Stalin's speed. At a conference in 1948 in, I think, either Bucharest or Warsaw Andrei Zhdanov laid down the law to their East European puppets. As the Soviet Army was occupying their countries it was a moot point anyway, and these countries had to toe the line.

eraser8

Genuine conservatives tend to be Libertarian.

Very concerned with principles.
As opposed to chickenhawk corporate sellouts.

But that's just my opinion.

PFC Jessica Lynch is a hero in my books, for standing up against the war propaganda machine and refusing to be used. So she got a great book deal: I'd want a great book deal too if I'm going to have my personal tragedy being used by my government as free propaganda.

"But, listening to a private's opinions on the general staff is like listening to a Wendy's employee rate his manager. I don't think there's ever been a PFC that's had a positive thing to say about a general, and that's how the system is supposed to work."

I agree, gromky.

Genuine conservatives who are committed to principles rather than to party are, unfortunately, becoming rarer and rarer. A genuine conservative wouldn't view Jessica Lynch one whit less admirable for telling the truth -- even if it goes against White House propaganda. In fact, they would praise her.

Muahahahahahaha!!!!! people like eraser8 are a laugh a minute!!!

may i remind eraser8 of CBS President Leslie Moonves' decision to pull the Ronald Reagan miniseries after telling the trush that it was full of lies?

uhm, i don't seem to recall the democrat whiners praising him for that honorable decision.

keep filling your heads with the rants of baaaarbra streisand, you democrat sheep... it's making all the easier for the republicans to dominate the elections... mmmkay?

Muahahahaha!!!!

a_cure_for_gravity

Lenin was smarter and more diplomatic than that. He's the one who coined the term 'useful idiots' for Western socialists who supported the Bolsheviks but who, had they been in Russia, would be exiled, imprisoned or shot.

That was Zbigniew Brzezinski's analysis, anyway.

I skimmed through most of this thread, and no one who is criticizing Lynch has convinced me she's done anything wrong.

The argument seems to be (1) she's not a hero and was just doing her duty as a soldier, (2) she's promoting a book while badmouthing the government (3) she's lied about being raped and otherwise mistreated.

Every article I've read indicates Lynch agrees with (1). And (3) isn't what she's been saying either. As for (2), if you read her quotes, she's not be ungrateful towards her country. And what's wrong with making some money off this?

I think I just might have to buy her book to finally read her entire version of the story. In the meantime, here's a refresher of some articles.

ajc.com
According to this article, Lynch "has no memory of the sexual assault, but medical records cited in the book ... indicate it occurred." She's just disclosing medical information, not claiming it happened or not.

nytimes.com
Diane Sawyer asked "if the military's portrayal of the rescue bothered her" and Lynch replied, "Yeah, it does. It does that they used me as a way to symbolize all this stuff. Yeah, it's wrong." This is just another way for her to reiterate that she doesn't want to be made out to be a hero.

Come on people. Leave the girl be.

Further proof that the whole Iraq situation stinks.

We can't even get a clear cut propaganda hero out of the country without having a huge stink about it, and I don't mean her lack of bowel control

2003-11-09 04:12:28 PM Shoon


Lynch's a pretentious whore who doesn't fear God. I even guess she's had sex before marriage. What a whore of Babylon.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

So good it needed to be posted twice.

neoconservatives are losers with napoleonic revenge fantasies

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin

1984 Reagan votes: 54,455,075
1988 Bush I votes: 48,886,588
1992 clinton votes: 44,909,806
1996 clinton votes: 47,402,357
2000 GWB votes: 50,459,624

Yet Gore only JUST lost out to GWB, so he must have also gotten over 50,000,000 votes. That makes him more popular than Bush I and Clinton either time according to you, in spite of the Nader vote.

Dishonesty with numbers, another Bush admirer hallmark.

Vote one IRV and never have your vote taken for granted by a major party again.