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(Daily Mail)   It turns out that we don't come from Africa after all   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 129
    More: Interesting, Fossils, Myanmar, human ancestor, speciations, missing link, paleontology, Tinkerbell, human history  
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8409 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 Jun 2012 at 5:14 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-05 11:27:33 PM  
Until next year, when we learn the Real Truth. (Until the next year.)
 
2012-06-05 11:36:22 PM  
So I'm Asian-American now?
 
2012-06-05 11:46:14 PM  
So, we'll eventually learn where the first life formed in the primordial ooze and that will be the proof that we're all Asian or African or whatever.

*Yawn*
 
2012-06-05 11:57:59 PM  
image.spreadshirt.com
 
2012-06-05 11:58:39 PM  
Benevolent Misanthrope: So, we'll eventually learn where the first life formed in the primordial ooze

Outer space. Life starts with space viruses.
 
2012-06-06 12:00:48 AM  
Will this science get me laid?

No?

FUNDING DENIED!
 
2012-06-06 12:09:02 AM  
I thought this was already common knowledge. People from Asia moved into Africa and the Americas, and then history as we know it.
 
2012-06-06 12:27:20 AM  
Yeah, except no.

The oldest known primates are actually from North America.
The oldest known apes are from Europe.
The oldest known hominins are from Africa.

Claiming that a strepsrrhine in Asia indicates an Asian origin of humans is roughly equivalent to claiming that since fire was first used in Africa, and combustion is part of modern automobile engines, the 2012 Dodge Charger must have been built in Nairobi.

As usual, the daily fail lives up to its nickname..
 
2012-06-06 12:29:07 AM  

Wangiss: Until next year, when we learn the Real Truth. (Until the next year.)


With the way they are going back in the article, next year they might as well just get it over with and say we came from the sea.

Our last common ancestor with our closest relatives came from Africa.

I thought it was already pretty well known that early primates most likely evolved in Asia. I mean, it's cool to see new fossils being found, but the idea itself doesn't seem particularly new.

Glad to see the Daily Fail living up to its name. :-/
 
2012-06-06 12:31:26 AM  

FloydA: The oldest known primates are actually from North America.


Eh? Hmmm... One of us seems to be mistaken, and it is most likely me. I'd love to read more about this. And good recommended sources? :)

/could have sworn I've read about Asian origins for a lot of primates before
 
2012-06-06 12:44:48 AM  
There is something that is still off. If humans came from Asia, then why does Africa have significantly more Y chromosomes?

The only answer is is that they evolved in Africa. I will give you an example. Germany, you may find 6 unique Y chromosomes. However, in Tunisia, you will find 1000 unique Y chromosomes.

/DONT TAKE WHAT I SAID AS BIBLE
//I was constructing it from memory from Guns Germs and Steel
 
2012-06-06 12:49:37 AM  

FloydA: As usual, the daily fail lives up to its nickname..

 
2012-06-06 01:03:23 AM  

mamoru: FloydA: The oldest known primates are actually from North America.

Eh? Hmmm... One of us seems to be mistaken, and it is most likely me. I'd love to read more about this. And good recommended sources? :)

/could have sworn I've read about Asian origins for a lot of primates before


Taxonomy gets pretty nebulous around the boundaries of course. The genus Purgatorius has the synapomorphy of fusion of the auditory bulla from the petrosal, so I'm willing to count them as basal primates. If you exclude the Paromomyidae and Plesiadapiformes from the order Primates, you could make an argument that Altiatlasius is the oldest "euprimate," and that puts the origin of primates in modern North Africa. That presents other problems, of course. If Purgatorius is ancestral to Altiatlasius, then any dividing line between "primate" and "not quite primate, but ancestral to primates" is really kind of arbitrary, and of course at the time, Laurasia was one continuous land mass anyway.

So I guess it's really a question of where you want to place the line between "primate" and "not primate." The auditory bulla works for me, but WTF do I know? I'm already drunk tonight on around a pint of Jameson's, so I might be completely off. I'm going to Bozeman in a few weeks, and I am hoping to get to talk to Jack about the Purgatory Hill finds. That might change my mind.

I guess I should ask if you consider the Plesiadapiformes to be "primates," because if not, we might be talking about two different clades. If we're using different definitions of "primate," we might both be right and just getting confused over terms.

/Like I said, I'm pretty drunk right now, so please forgive me if I've just said something really stupid. Thanks.
 
2012-06-06 01:11:25 AM  

cman: There is something that is still off. If humans came from Asia, then why does Africa have significantly more Y chromosomes?

The only answer is is that they evolved in Africa. I will give you an example. Germany, you may find 6 unique Y chromosomes. However, in Tunisia, you will find 1000 unique Y chromosomes.

/DONT TAKE WHAT I SAID AS BIBLE
//I was constructing it from memory from Guns Germs and Steel


Don't worry. The Daily Fail was discussing some ancestral primate and conflating "human" with "ancestral to human." It's basically the equivalent of someone telling me that I'm Irish because my ancestors lived there, even though I didn't, my parents didn't, and my grandparents didn't.

Humans, as a species, are originally from Africa, whether this fossil turns out to be in our lineage or not. The fossil mentioned in the article was not a human. If it was ancestral to humans, that's interesting, but the first humans were its great-great-N grandchildren, and they lived in Africa.

I can go into more detail if you like, but not until tomorrow, when I'm sober again. I'm well into loopy land right now, sorry.
 
2012-06-06 01:13:54 AM  
Well, subby, that will certainly be a relief to the "conservative" white folks here in the South...

/yes, Florida is considered the South...
//well... except for South Florida...
///and maybe Orlando, which is more like South New Jersey...
 
2012-06-06 01:14:48 AM  

FloydA: cman: There is something that is still off. If humans came from Asia, then why does Africa have significantly more Y chromosomes?

The only answer is is that they evolved in Africa. I will give you an example. Germany, you may find 6 unique Y chromosomes. However, in Tunisia, you will find 1000 unique Y chromosomes.

/DONT TAKE WHAT I SAID AS BIBLE
//I was constructing it from memory from Guns Germs and Steel

Don't worry. The Daily Fail was discussing some ancestral primate and conflating "human" with "ancestral to human." It's basically the equivalent of someone telling me that I'm Irish because my ancestors lived there, even though I didn't, my parents didn't, and my grandparents didn't.

Humans, as a species, are originally from Africa, whether this fossil turns out to be in our lineage or not. The fossil mentioned in the article was not a human. If it was ancestral to humans, that's interesting, but the first humans were its great-great-N grandchildren, and they lived in Africa.

I can go into more detail if you like, but not until tomorrow, when I'm sober again. I'm well into loopy land right now, sorry.


I would appreciate it if you were to go into detail about this.

/Love learnin
 
2012-06-06 01:59:43 AM  
I miss the rain down in Africa
 
2012-06-06 02:09:11 AM  
I still believe in intelligent design, since we had to come from SOMEWHERE but here's something to really get you to thinking. Its kinda deep, but I've been reading up on how there used to be different classifications of human all co-existing, yet over time only homo sapiens survived. As there are many different races of homo sapiens (Asians, Africans, Hispanics, etc.), how did that come about? Could it be inside the realm of possibility that the different races of homo sapiens could've been caused by homo erectus, Neanderthals and homo sapiens breeding?
 
2012-06-06 02:15:07 AM  
bluorangefyre: Could it be inside the realm of possibility that the different races of homo sapiens could've been caused by homo erectus, Neanderthals and homo sapiens breeding?

No.
 
2012-06-06 02:17:12 AM  
bluorangefyre: Could it be inside the realm of possibility that the different races of homo sapiens could've been caused by homo erectus, Neanderthals and homo sapiens breeding?

No. Homo sapien sapiens is full of Neanderthal genes ... so

Maybe.
 
2012-06-06 02:18:18 AM  

bluorangefyre: I still believe in intelligent design, since we had to come from SOMEWHERE but here's something to really get you to thinking. Its kinda deep, but I've been reading up on how there used to be different classifications of human all co-existing, yet over time only homo sapiens survived. As there are many different races of homo sapiens (Asians, Africans, Hispanics, etc.), how did that come about? Could it be inside the realm of possibility that the different races of homo sapiens could've been caused by homo erectus, Neanderthals and homo sapiens breeding?


I've wondered about that myself. There was a special on Netflix that dealt with quantum computing. There is this unusual thing that happens; particles magically appear then disappear with no source to come from. That is how they think matter was created in our universe, just a bunch of random particles slamming together for trillions of years, which made the mass that began the big bang.

I dunno, really. What they are saying makes a little sense, but something is just missing.

There is also one more way the universe could have been formed, a Predestination Paradox. An event or person from the time of the end of the universe commits some action which resolves in the birth of the universe trillions of years earlier.

Best part about paradoxes is that they dont need to follow logic to be accurate
 
2012-06-06 02:19:08 AM  
bluorangefyre: Could it be inside the realm of possibility that the different races of homo sapiens could've been caused by homo erectus, Neanderthals and homo sapiens breeding?

Neanderthals could be the proximal cause for white skin genes.

/not that I really know what I am talking about
 
2012-06-06 03:01:28 AM  

FloydA: Yeah, except no.

The oldest known primates are actually from North America.
The oldest known apes are from Europe.
The oldest known hominins are from Africa.


damn you floyd
I learned something new today ...

didnt realize that the oldest known primate was from NA ...
/this DOES explain palin and kentucky
 
2012-06-06 04:18:49 AM  
t1.gstatic.com

I DIDN'T COME FROM NO MONKEY!
 
2012-06-06 04:28:44 AM  
If we evolved from Asians why are there still Asians???
 
2012-06-06 04:30:22 AM  

propasaurus: If we evolved from Asians why are there still Asians???


Well, that would explain my penis size D:
 
2012-06-06 04:40:22 AM  
The size of their teeth suggests that in life these animals weighed around 3.5 ounces, roughly the size of a modern tarsier.

Well, gee. Guess the earliest upright-walking primate was a 12-inch pianist.

Or, y'know, someone managed to almost but not quite succeed in failing out of journalism school.
 
2012-06-06 05:40:20 AM  

ToxicMunkee: So I'm Asian-American now?


total win.
 
2012-06-06 05:43:09 AM  
Forget this "came from Asia" nonsense. I can trace my subatomic lineage to 10^-12 seconds after the big bang.
 
2012-06-06 05:47:13 AM  
Is that bloke playing a stone age PSP?
 
2012-06-06 05:50:34 AM  
RussiaMyanmar - homeland of elephants humans
 
2012-06-06 05:51:36 AM  

ShawnDoc: FloydA: As usual, the daily fail lives up to its nickname..


The fact that the term "seal the case that anthropoids first evolved in Asia" (emphasis mine) occurs 5 times on that page, reminds me to check... oh, Daily Fail? *facepalm* never mind.
 
2012-06-06 05:53:31 AM  

FloydA: Yeah, except no.

The oldest known primates are actually from North America.
The oldest known apes are from Europe.
The oldest known hominins are from Africa.

Claiming that a strepsrrhine in Asia indicates an Asian origin of humans is roughly equivalent to claiming that since fire was first used in Africa, and combustion is part of modern automobile engines, the 2012 Dodge Charger must have been built in Nairobi.

As usual, the daily fail lives up to its nickname..


Might as well say the bacteria and archaea that formed microbial mats 3 billion years ago are the ancestors of all humans.
 
2012-06-06 05:57:35 AM  

Wangiss: Until next year, when we learn the Real Truth. (Until the next year.)


Don't understand how science works or just a troll?
 
2012-06-06 06:01:04 AM  

namatad: FloydA: Yeah, except no.

The oldest known primates are actually from North America.
The oldest known apes are from Europe.
The oldest known hominins are from Africa.

damn you floyd
I learned something new today ...

didnt realize that the oldest known primate was from NA ...
/this DOES explain palin and kentucky


That actually was interesting and novel (for me). So interesting it broke through my blood-brain-whiskey barrier. See if it survives a sleep cycle.
 
2012-06-06 06:03:30 AM  

bluorangefyre: I still believe in intelligent design, since we had to come from SOMEWHERE


If we're designed (and it's a right shiatty design), who designed the designer? I mean, if we had to come from somewhere, so did the being (or beings) that designed us. And the being(s) that designed it/them. And the being(s) that...
 
2012-06-06 06:03:49 AM  
This article reminds me of that time I learned Roman history and that totally changed all of American history.
 
2012-06-06 06:05:04 AM  

Baryogenesis: Forget this "came from Asia" nonsense. I can trace my subatomic lineage to 10^-12 seconds after the big bang.


damn... and I thought that ~1200 years was pretty far back to trace. (I'm the first born of a first born of a first born...etc.) right back to the middle east (via Wales of all countries!!)

/csb, yeah, I know.
 
2012-06-06 06:09:25 AM  
Did somebody say Africa?

i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-06-06 06:32:56 AM  

bluorangefyre: I still believe in intelligent design, since we had to come from SOMEWHERE but here's something to really get you to thinking. Its kinda deep, but I've been reading up on how there used to be different classifications of human all co-existing, yet over time only homo sapiens survived. As there are many different races of homo sapiens (Asians, Africans, Hispanics, etc.), how did that come about? Could it be inside the realm of possibility that the different races of homo sapiens could've been caused by homo erectus, Neanderthals and homo sapiens breeding?

`
Judging by your comment you may have read something on the subject of human evolution but you didn't understand a damn bit of it.
 
2012-06-06 06:51:44 AM  
Came in here to say several things, but people like FloydA already said most of them and phrased it much better than I would have.

So instead, I'll just recommend reading Red Earth, White Lies by Vine Deloria Jr. There's some very thought-provoking stuff in there.
 
2012-06-06 06:55:43 AM  

FloydA: Claiming that a strepsrrhine in Asia indicates an Asian origin of humans is roughly equivalent to claiming that since fire was first used in Africa, and combustion is part of modern automobile engines, the 2012 Dodge Charger must have been built in Nairobi.


reason.com

Demands to see the pink slip for that car, boy.
 
2012-06-06 06:56:24 AM  

bluorangefyre: I still believe in intelligent design, since we had to come from SOMEWHERE but here's something to really get you to thinking. Its kinda deep, but I've been reading up on how there used to be different classifications of human all co-existing, yet over time only homo sapiens survived. As there are many different races of homo sapiens (Asians, Africans, Hispanics, etc.), how did that come about? Could it be inside the realm of possibility that the different races of homo sapiens could've been caused by homo erectus, Neanderthals and homo sapiens breeding?


Sometimes when I poop, I have a strange urge to look at what I've done. See the texture, the consistency, the size. These are stupid thoughts that really should be never shared in public too.
 
2012-06-06 07:07:03 AM  

Sgygus: bluorangefyre: Could it be inside the realm of possibility that the different races of homo sapiens could've been caused by homo erectus, Neanderthals and homo sapiens breeding?

No. Homo sapien sapiens is full of Neanderthal genes ... so

Maybe.


Yeah it's one of those cases where the original thought as expressed is wrong, but there isn't really a simple yes or no answer. The modern view of human expansion out of Africa and co-existence with other species of the genus Homo isn't as simple as the old Out-of-Africa hypothesis, but it isn't really the Multiregional model either. It is one of multiple waves of migration out of Africa and different areas have likely had different levels of interbreeding with archaic human populations living in different regions. Interbreeding with Neanderthals did occur, as well as Denisovans, and the introgression of genetic material from those two were somewhat regionally isolated.
 
2012-06-06 07:12:39 AM  
A team of palaeontologists in Myanmar has found the tooth of a pre-human ancestor - afrasia djijidae, so-called because it forms a missing link between Africa and Asia - that is very similar another early ancestor found in Libya.

Because People in power are Stupid:

image.spreadshirt.com

bevets.com

Teach The Controversy
 
2012-06-06 07:17:17 AM  

cman: bluorangefyre: I still believe in intelligent design, since we had to come from SOMEWHERE but here's something to really get you to thinking. Its kinda deep, but I've been reading up on how there used to be different classifications of human all co-existing, yet over time only homo sapiens survived. As there are many different races of homo sapiens (Asians, Africans, Hispanics, etc.), how did that come about? Could it be inside the realm of possibility that the different races of homo sapiens could've been caused by homo erectus, Neanderthals and homo sapiens breeding?

I've wondered about that myself. There was a special on Netflix that dealt with quantum computing. There is this unusual thing that happens; particles magically appear then disappear with no source to come from. That is how they think matter was created in our universe, just a bunch of random particles slamming together for trillions of years, which made the mass that began the big bang.

I dunno, really. What they are saying makes a little sense, but something is just missing.

There is also one more way the universe could have been formed, a Predestination Paradox. An event or person from the time of the end of the universe commits some action which resolves in the birth of the universe trillions of years earlier.

Best part about paradoxes is that they dont need to follow logic to be accurate


images.wikia.com
Paradox-absorbing crumple zones.
 
2012-06-06 07:30:12 AM  
i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-06-06 07:35:50 AM  

FloydA: Yeah, except no.

The oldest known primates are actually from North America.
The oldest known apes are from Europe.
The oldest known hominins are from Africa.

Claiming that a strepsrrhine in Asia indicates an Asian origin of humans is roughly equivalent to claiming that since fire was first used in Africa, and combustion is part of modern automobile engines, the 2012 Dodge Charger must have been built in Nairobi.

As usual, the daily fail lives up to its nickname..


Exactly. 37 million years ago? Sheesh. Why not posit that the first single-cell organisms evolved in South America 2 billion years ago, so we're all South American.

Daily Mail: "Controversy! Revelation!"

No.
 
2012-06-06 07:43:21 AM  
Those darned Scienticians always trying to make Africa a bigger deal than it is...

Next thing they'll tell us that the Africans had kingdoms and civilization before Europeans...
 
2012-06-06 07:45:00 AM  

Bevets: A team of palaeontologists in Myanmar has found the tooth of a pre-human ancestor - afrasia djijidae, so-called because it forms a missing link between Africa and Asia - that is very similar another early ancestor found in Libya.

Because People in power are Stupid:

image.spreadshirt.com



Teach The Controversy


Surprise! Surprise!
2 of Bevets' "Teach The Controversy" Links go to his wonderfully educational Personnel web page and the other links to an old Fark thread.
Outstanding citations you have there Butthead.
`
Bev was kind enough to post his family tree though so I'll repost it here.
`
bevets.com
 
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