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(WSMV Nashville)   Seventy-five-year-old woman in Iran may get kicked out of her house for American flags. Wait, did I say Iran? I meant New Jersey   (wsmv.com) divider line 137
    More: Stupid, American flag, elderly woman, Iran, A Texas, phillipsburg, American patriotism, NBC, retirement home  
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10653 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jun 2012 at 5:17 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-06 10:15:53 AM  
Isn't there supposed to be a federal law that says that HOA's can't ban people from displaying flags?

Also, I'm not believing the Housing Authority Executive Director's explaination for a second. A falling potted plant or heavier object, yes, but how is a falling 4-5 ounce flag going to hurt someone?
 
2012-06-06 10:16:35 AM  

fusillade762: SilentStrider: Wow thats a poorly written article.

No shiat. I may be drunk, but I don't understand what the "safety hazard" is here. They're worried THIS is gonna fall and hurt someone?

[raycomnbc.images.worldnow.com image 640x360]


Irrelevant. If the flags are in violation of the rules then they are in violation of the rules.
 
2012-06-06 10:21:35 AM  

trappedspirit: I'm pretty sure that if I paint my car like an American flag that I can park it wherever I want with immunity


Better be a goddamn hovercar, 'cause I think there's a law about the 'Murkin flag not touching the ground...
 
2012-06-06 10:27:27 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: untaken_name: If there are winds high enough to turn a tiny cloth flag on a tiny balsa wood stick into a dangerous projectile, the railings would be coming off

Because a wind strong enough to pull a flag & stem from the base it rests in is obviously strong enough to rip a metal railing from its moorings.


So it's your contention that merely pulling a tiny flag off a balcony is sufficient to turn it into a dangerous projectile?
 
2012-06-06 10:28:40 AM  

apoptotic: It takes a lot less time to make and enforce a rule that says you can't hang anything from the balcony or railing than it would to make one that necessitates considering every possible item on a case by case basis.


Yet here we are, still considering this particular case on a case-by-case basis. How'd that zero-tolerance policy work out saving everyone time, again?
 
2012-06-06 10:29:57 AM  

untaken_name: ArcadianRefugee: untaken_name: If there are winds high enough to turn a tiny cloth flag on a tiny balsa wood stick into a dangerous projectile, the railings would be coming off

Because a wind strong enough to pull a flag & stem from the base it rests in is obviously strong enough to rip a metal railing from its moorings.

So it's your contention that merely pulling a tiny flag off a balcony is sufficient to turn it into a dangerous projectile?


The rule is not against tiny flags. It is against anything on the railing.
 
2012-06-06 10:31:35 AM  

Mock26: fusillade762: SilentStrider: Wow thats a poorly written article.

No shiat. I may be drunk, but I don't understand what the "safety hazard" is here. They're worried THIS is gonna fall and hurt someone?

[raycomnbc.images.worldnow.com image 640x360]

Irrelevant. If the flags are in violation of the rules then they are in violation of the rules.


Flags can't violate rules. People can violate rules by hanging flags in unauthorized locations. But saying that the flags are in violation anthropomorphizes them incorrectly.
 
2012-06-06 10:32:40 AM  

Mock26: untaken_name: ArcadianRefugee: untaken_name: If there are winds high enough to turn a tiny cloth flag on a tiny balsa wood stick into a dangerous projectile, the railings would be coming off

Because a wind strong enough to pull a flag & stem from the base it rests in is obviously strong enough to rip a metal railing from its moorings.

So it's your contention that merely pulling a tiny flag off a balcony is sufficient to turn it into a dangerous projectile?

The rule is not against tiny flags. It is against anything on the railing.


Where did I ever say it wasn't? What did that even have to do with the comment I made or the one I responded to? They were about what is dangerous, not what the rules are.
 
2012-06-06 10:39:03 AM  
Ugh. I hate people who get derpy about displaying the flag.

"I am SUPER PATRIOTIC so I can do whatever the hell I want, because USA USA USA!"

Guess what. Being an uber-patriot doesn't mean you get to break the rules.
 
2012-06-06 10:50:08 AM  
old people suck.

/I can;t wait to be one of them.
 
2012-06-06 11:01:50 AM  
The HOA was good enough for you when it made Mildred turn down her TV or when it kicked out Dottie and Clarences' yorkie, but it sure does suck when it goes against you, doesn't it?

Old people work their whole lives to move into these places and enforce these rules.
 
2012-06-06 11:03:13 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: StrangeQ: Hanging a flag that weighs ~1oz = 10lb flowerpot of doom.

It's all fun and games until a 10-lb flowerpot of doom (an excellent band name, by the way) comes crashing down on your head and a tiny American flag pokes your eye out.

[i46.tinypic.com image 640x480]


Mere words cannot adequately express the awesome.
 
2012-06-06 11:10:29 AM  

Rapmaster2000: The HOA was good enough for you when it made Mildred turn down her TV or when it kicked out Dottie and Clarences' yorkie, but it sure does suck when it goes against you, doesn't it?

Old people work their whole lives to move into these places and enforce these rules.


For some, it's their dream to wear the HOA badge proudly. Marching in unison with their tape measures and clip boards. Don't dash that dream.
 
2012-06-06 11:12:12 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: You signed it...lose the flags


THIS

I hate people who sign stuff, and then play stupid.

Also hate people who think anything they want to do is a constitutional right. Not on private property, not when you signed an agreement stating otherwise. You've given up that right (in this case for a really affordable place).
 
2012-06-06 11:12:19 AM  
Yankees are so full of self loathing, because they realize they were wrong to invade the Confederacy, that now they can not stand the sight of the "Stars and Stripes".
 
2012-06-06 11:13:41 AM  

Nome de Plume: Yankees are so full of self loathing, because they realize they were wrong to invade the Confederacy, that now they can not stand the sight of the "Stars and Stripes".


0.5/10. I don't even think an Alabamian would fall for that one.
 
2012-06-06 11:14:54 AM  
AverageAmericanGuy wrote:

"It's the goddamned flag, you sonofabiatch. Some deference to it and respect for it, please. If you don't want to love this country and this flag, then get the fark out and go live in Canada where you can be ashamed of your home country to your heart's content."

Huh. Toby Keith's a farker? Go figure.
 
2012-06-06 11:48:02 AM  
a lease is a lease but i think they are really splitting hairs on this. I personally feel they should let her keep them , after an independent inspection is done to be sure there is no danger of anything dangerous falling.
 
2012-06-06 11:55:44 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: How a reasonable person would handle this: "Hey, you know, sticking flags in a flower pot might create a safety hazard. But it's totally cool you want to fly the flag. Tell you what, how about we buy you the $2.50 worth of mounting hardware necessary, and send someone over to install it properly on your deck, would that be cool? That way, we won't look like unpatriotic horse's asses and cause a huge stink, and you still get to display your flags."

How a HOA handles this: "ZOMG! Duh rules say you can't do dat, and rules is rules and you have to obey! No need to think, just blindly follow duh rulezzzz!!!!!eleventy!!!!"


The quoted is a post obviously from someone who has never had to deal with a bunch of people who all think they should have specialized exceptions to rules. Frankly I'd rather spend my day doing my primary duties (in the condo association office's case, making sure the building was properly maintained and working) instead of dealing with a bunch of spoiled adult-aged children who think they have a God-given right to ignore the legally binding agreements they voluntarily signed just because "FLAG FLAG FLAG" or their rationalization du jour.

/art school employee with a history of working in retail, can you tell?
 
2012-06-06 12:01:31 PM  

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Isn't there supposed to be a federal law that says that HOA's can't ban people from displaying flags?

Also, I'm not believing the Housing Authority Executive Director's explaination for a second. A falling potted plant or heavier object, yes, but how is a falling 4-5 ounce flag going to hurt someone?


That specific law you're thinking of has a clause that allows HOAs to do specifically that, so no. Face it, it's a retarded law meant to get uncritical flag addicts all worked up over nothing.
 
2012-06-06 12:35:17 PM  
She wants to fly her flags, agains the rules. Just like she wants to be forgiven everytime she shoplifts because "it's just an old lady stealing some ice cream".
 
2012-06-06 01:01:26 PM  

give me doughnuts: crab66: lack of warmth: Lionel Mandrake: It's in the lease, paragraph 20

You signed it...lose the flags

She needs to get a lawyer because we found out last week when talking about flags that landlords and housing authorities cannot do what they are trying by federal law. This really should be a non-story only that by the hao is breaking a law here.


Wrong.


SEC. 4. LIMITATIONS.

Nothing in this Act shall be considered to permit any display or use that is inconsistent with--

(1) any provision of chapter 1 of title 4, United States Code, or any rule or custom pertaining to the proper display or use of the flag of the United States (as established pursuant to such chapter or any otherwise applicable provision of law); or

(2) any reasonable restriction pertaining to the time, place, or manner of displaying the flag of the United States necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association.

Key phrases that need to be defined.


THIS!!!! (and crab's abysmal understanding of law)

It is highly unlikely that the HOA's restriction preventing her from displaying the flag is protected by the limitation section of this law. That limitation is intended to prevent someone from erecting a 100 ft flag pole on the property or something.

The housing agreement's rule is not a REASONABLE RESTRICTION intended to protect a SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST.

She is damn right in exercising her rights to display a flag.
 
2012-06-06 01:05:21 PM  
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/more/hr42.htm (Applicable law)

Btw, it does specifically prohibit a HOA from entering an agreement that prevents the display of a flag.

Unless, as previously mentioned, it is done so as a reasonable restriction to protect a substantial interest in the common property.
 
2012-06-06 01:21:19 PM  

DIGITALgimpus: Lionel Mandrake: You signed it...lose the flags

THIS

I hate people who sign stuff, and then play stupid.



Agreed. Especially for things like mortgages and student loan debt.
 
2012-06-06 02:31:12 PM  

apoptotic: fusillade762: SilentStrider: Wow thats a poorly written article.

No shiat. I may be drunk, but I don't understand what the "safety hazard" is here. They're worried THIS is gonna fall and hurt someone?

[raycomnbc.images.worldnow.com image 640x360]

I suspect that the clause in the lease that this falls under prohibits anything being hung from or attached to balcony railings. If they specifically banned/approved each individual item that anyone may conceivably ever think of the lease would be ridiculously long and they'd still eventually come up against some ridiculous situation like a passerby being struck in the head by a falling life sized suit of armor that no one thought to put on the list of banned items.

As far as the flags go, imagine one of the sticks (can't really call them flagpoles at that size) broke in the wind and the sharp end hit someone in the throat. It may be unlikely, but contingency planning isn't only about planning for things that are likely.


Final Destination 6?
 
2012-06-06 02:36:25 PM  

untaken_name: ArcadianRefugee: untaken_name: If there are winds high enough to turn a tiny cloth flag on a tiny balsa wood stick into a dangerous projectile, the railings would be coming off

Because a wind strong enough to pull a flag & stem from the base it rests in is obviously strong enough to rip a metal railing from its moorings.

So it's your contention that merely pulling a tiny flag off a balcony is sufficient to turn it into a dangerous projectile?


My contention is that your original claim - equating the wind forces necessary to uproot a small wooden stick with a piece of fabric attached to it and those necessary to yank a metal railing from the concrete it is bolted into - is ludicrous.

You'll notice I made no comment to indicate my opinion as to the dangerousness of anything, nor did I refute those of anyone else.

/Fark argument tactic 101: when your stupidity is pointed out by others, misrepresent their claim as saying something else
 
2012-06-06 03:01:10 PM  
Haven't we had a SCOTUS case about this kind of thing?
 
2012-06-06 03:41:30 PM  

DIExPLZ: give me doughnuts: crab66: lack of warmth: Lionel Mandrake: It's in the lease, paragraph 20

You signed it...lose the flags

She needs to get a lawyer because we found out last week when talking about flags that landlords and housing authorities cannot do what they are trying by federal law. This really should be a non-story only that by the hao is breaking a law here.


Wrong.


SEC. 4. LIMITATIONS.

Nothing in this Act shall be considered to permit any display or use that is inconsistent with--

(1) any provision of chapter 1 of title 4, United States Code, or any rule or custom pertaining to the proper display or use of the flag of the United States (as established pursuant to such chapter or any otherwise applicable provision of law); or

(2) any reasonable restriction pertaining to the time, place, or manner of displaying the flag of the United States necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association.

Key phrases that need to be defined.

THIS!!!! (and crab's abysmal understanding of law)

It is highly unlikely that the HOA's restriction preventing her from displaying the flag is protected by the limitation section of this law. That limitation is intended to prevent someone from erecting a 100 ft flag pole on the property or something.

The housing agreement's rule is not a REASONABLE RESTRICTION intended to protect a SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST.

She is damn right in exercising her rights to display a flag.


Except she is displaying it in a way that violates her lease agreement. The lease does not state "tenant is not allowed to display a flag of the United States of America," it states something to the effect that the tenant is now allowed to afix anything to the railing.

The property manager is in the right in this case. This old hag just wants preferential treatment so she can violate her contract. The woman needs to honor her lease agreement or get thrown out on her dumb ass.
 
2012-06-06 03:49:12 PM  

max_pooper: DIExPLZ: give me doughnuts: crab66: lack of warmth: Lionel Mandrake: It's in the lease, paragraph 20

You signed it...lose the flags

She needs to get a lawyer because we found out last week when talking about flags that landlords and housing authorities cannot do what they are trying by federal law. This really should be a non-story only that by the hao is breaking a law here.


Wrong.


SEC. 4. LIMITATIONS.

Nothing in this Act shall be considered to permit any display or use that is inconsistent with--

(1) any provision of chapter 1 of title 4, United States Code, or any rule or custom pertaining to the proper display or use of the flag of the United States (as established pursuant to such chapter or any otherwise applicable provision of law); or

(2) any reasonable restriction pertaining to the time, place, or manner of displaying the flag of the United States necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association.

Key phrases that need to be defined.

THIS!!!! (and crab's abysmal understanding of law)

It is highly unlikely that the HOA's restriction preventing her from displaying the flag is protected by the limitation section of this law. That limitation is intended to prevent someone from erecting a 100 ft flag pole on the property or something.

The housing agreement's rule is not a REASONABLE RESTRICTION intended to protect a SUBSTANTIAL INTEREST.

She is damn right in exercising her rights to display a flag.

Except she is displaying it in a way that violates her lease agreement. The lease does not state "tenant is not allowed to display a flag of the United States of America," it states something to the effect that the tenant is now allowed to afix anything to the railing.

The property manager is in the right in this case. This old hag just wants preferential treatment so she can violate her contract. The woman needs to honor her lease agreement or get thr ...


You are missing the point. The law says that the HOA cannot even enter an agreement that prevents someone from flying a flag. Hence, the agreement, as the flag is concerned, is not enforceable. The only way it could be enforceable is if it were a reasonable restriction intended to protected a substantial interest in the property, and in this case, it is not.
 
2012-06-06 04:40:37 PM  

untaken_name: Mock26: fusillade762: SilentStrider: Wow thats a poorly written article.

No shiat. I may be drunk, but I don't understand what the "safety hazard" is here. They're worried THIS is gonna fall and hurt someone?

[raycomnbc.images.worldnow.com image 640x360]

Irrelevant. If the flags are in violation of the rules then they are in violation of the rules.

Flags can't violate rules. People can violate rules by hanging flags in unauthorized locations. But saying that the flags are in violation anthropomorphizes them incorrectly.


Yeah, don't anthropomorphize inanimate objects. They hate that.
 
2012-06-06 04:50:19 PM  

untaken_name: Mock26: fusillade762: SilentStrider: Wow thats a poorly written article.

No shiat. I may be drunk, but I don't understand what the "safety hazard" is here. They're worried THIS is gonna fall and hurt someone?

[raycomnbc.images.worldnow.com image 640x360]

Irrelevant. If the flags are in violation of the rules then they are in violation of the rules.

Flags can't violate rules. People can violate rules by hanging flags in unauthorized locations. But saying that the flags are in violation anthropomorphizes them incorrectly.


You knew the point I was trying to make, and that point is still valid. The old bat broke the rules. Just because it is "teh American flag!" does not mean she gets to shiat all over the rules.
 
2012-06-06 05:59:24 PM  
Used to live across the street where they flew a huge Mexican flag that the wind would whip across the sidewalk and wrap around people trying to walk there; nothing ever done even after several people called the police about it. If it had been an American flag?
 
2012-06-06 07:52:44 PM  

DIExPLZ: The law says that the HOA cannot even enter an agreement that prevents someone from flying a flag.


No it doesn't. Take your GED in law elsewhere.
 
2012-06-06 08:00:17 PM  

Schlock: Except that the federal law states that US flags have a special status , but also makes exemptions for HOAs and condo associations. If the federal law DIDN'T make that exemption then the lease would have no legal status, regardless of whether she signed it or not. The contract is not a legal document if it contradicts federal law. It doesn't in this case, due to the exceptions made, but people need to let go of because that's not how law works.


Well since the "exceptions" at hand are the only things we are talking about currently, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. That there is a federal law that plays absolutely no significant role in this situation? OK. And with rental agreements, leases, and contracts--"well if it's in the contract she signed then they can do what they want," is pretty close to the reality of the situation. Now, the landlord can't break the contract or change it (unless the previously signed contract had a change clause) just like the tenant can't. They are equally bound. It's kind of like at will employment. They can fire you at any time, sure, but that doesn't mean they can fire you for any reason or no reason at all. And I don't think anybody in this thread is claiming that a landlord can do absolutely anything to a tenant just because of perhaps a vaguely worded contract. If the contract said something like "Grills, hotplates, power tools, hanging flowers, and displays of any kind are forbidden from unit balconies" and she signed it, well the landlord has the right.
 
2012-06-06 08:01:58 PM  
And, by the way, almost exactly that stipulation has been in every apartment lease I have ever signed.
 
2012-06-06 09:51:42 PM  

geek_mars: FTFA: "Let's just say you let somebody have a flag and somebody puts a hanging basket up there that's filled with dirt that may weight five to 10 pounds and comes crashing down on someone. It has a potential to hurt, then it's we didn't do enough to protect people," Rummerfield said.

Let's say instead you let someone have a flag, which weighs a few ounces, and just have a rule against hanging anything over a certain weight limit (say, one or two lbs). Then, you won't look like asses in front of the whole world.

/fark an HOA


She can play by the same rules as everybody else (and follow the contract that she willingly agreed to prior to moving in) or she can go play elsewhere. Her choice.
 
2012-06-07 01:55:18 AM  

spectrek: Used to live across the street where they flew a huge Mexican flag that the wind would whip across the sidewalk and wrap around people trying to walk there; nothing ever done even after several people called the police about it. If it had been an American flag?


No one would have called the police? Anyone who did call the police would have a story posted about them on Fark about how un-American they were?
 
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