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(Christian Post)   Group of pastors that have never supported President Obama or anything he has done are now "heart-broken" over his support for marriage equality and requesting a meeting   (christianpost.com) divider line 276
    More: Obvious, President Obama, same-sex marriages, political campaigning, black churches, Nation of Islam, moral absolutism  
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1494 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jun 2012 at 5:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-05 05:49:30 PM

abb3w: ...so, you hate having an example which shows your theory has fundamental problems in practice?


I am showing an example that says that I understand that things are not just black and white. I hate the Civil Rights act of 1964. I hate it because the southern states REFUSED to protect their own. It really pisses me off that even today this legislation is still needed because of the hate. I believe in states rights, I do, but the line must be drawn somewhere. If you wont protect the minority population, who are equal citizens in their own right, then the Federal government should ensure that equality is preserved.

/Yes, this is coming from a right-winged Libertarian.
 
2012-06-05 05:49:52 PM
You're intolerant of my intolerance.
 
2012-06-05 05:50:37 PM

PonceAlyosha: Actually, if you say the Nabutsu [Namo Amida Buddha], when you die your spirit/soul/selfless-awareness will be swept away to the Pure Land after you die where you can meditate until you're enlightened in your current instance of self


My current instance of self is way too impatient to meditate until enlightenment is achieved. If there's no XBox in the pure land, I will be a very unhappy awareness.
 
2012-06-05 05:53:31 PM
Wasn't that long ago that various preachers were saying that about presidents who had the balls to give civil rights to black people. Just a thought.
 
2012-06-05 05:53:51 PM
I guess he might be listening to a couple of other church leaders instead...

lh3.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-06-05 05:54:26 PM

Bubbarella: A man with a man is confusion. A woman with a woman is confusion. There is no organ built for it.


I'd say the fingers are perfectly sized for hole penetration and mouths and anuses are also pretty well sized for penetration. You need some lube for the anal but it's interesting how poo logs are often penis size. Many women have an easier time getting orgasms with fingers than with cawk. If God only wanted us in vaginas he could have designed us differently so it was the only physically possible place for penis to go.
 
2012-06-05 05:54:49 PM

Di Atribe: Citrate1007: Or you know you can cite only the old testiment, which Jesus preached AGAINST

People who insist on the laws of the Old Testament are basically saying that Jesus dying for them wasn't good enough.


Jesus, the apostles, and the entire New Testament books taught nothing new. They might have taught in new ways, but they did not teach us new laws. Everything they taught was from the beginning, and is found in the Old Testament books. That's why Jesus and the apostles commonly preceded their teachings with "it is written," or "the scriptures saith," and then proceeded to quote God's written law from the Old Testament. Jesus might have explained what the Old Testament laws meant in different words, such as by using parables and such, but nonetheless, the truths he taught are all found in the Old Testament.
 
2012-06-05 05:55:10 PM

Bubbarella: I'm trying to keep some of you out of hell, but judging from all the hate, it's probably too late for that.


You are proof that this is true

Hell is other People
 
2012-06-05 05:55:32 PM

cman: Didn't Jesus say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?
Didnt God say "Love thy Neighbor"?
Didnt Jesus also say, "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."?


This is what God wants. He wants us to love each other (not in the sexual way, the friendly Ned Flanders way). He does not want for us to be divided by some petty disputes. How does a man who performs oral sex on another man affect you? If you are not in the room, why should you care?

God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve?

Seriously though, I've made the exact arguments you posed above to all kinds of anti-gay people, and I've asked them how we show love to our LGBT neighbors if we don't let them marry, openly serve in the military, etc. They generally have no response or respond solely with religious pablum.
 
2012-06-05 05:56:14 PM

Kome: Wasn't that long ago that various preachers were saying that about presidents who had the balls to give civil rights to black people. Just a thought.


It totally doesn't count because the gays weren't enslaved because of their gayness. I am wondering what these preachers would think if we started bring back anti-miscegenation laws.
 
2012-06-05 05:58:33 PM

Bubbarella: I'm trying to keep some of you out of hell, but judging from all the hate, it's probably too late for that.


Where in scripture does it say you will go to hell if you are a homosexual? Please quote. Also if I follow the scripture in the Old Testament as stated, does that mean I am going to hell if I shave?

Also, the moment you make a statement about who goes and does not go to hell, is the moment you attempt to use God's name in vain.

Remember Christianity is not about hate, its about peace. When you spread hate filled messages you spread hate, and you plant the seeds of evil. So stop giving us Christians a bad name.
 
2012-06-05 05:58:55 PM

Bubbarella: Di Atribe: Citrate1007: Or you know you can cite only the old testiment, which Jesus preached AGAINST

People who insist on the laws of the Old Testament are basically saying that Jesus dying for them wasn't good enough.

Jesus, the apostles, and the entire New Testament books taught nothing new. They might have taught in new ways, but they did not teach us new laws. Everything they taught was from the beginning, and is found in the Old Testament books. That's why Jesus and the apostles commonly preceded their teachings with "it is written," or "the scriptures saith," and then proceeded to quote God's written law from the Old Testament. Jesus might have explained what the Old Testament laws meant in different words, such as by using parables and such, but nonetheless, the truths he taught are all found in the Old Testament.


Well this explains a lot. Jesus is the core tennent of Christianity, but it's ok to ignore him to justify you're own beliefs.
 
2012-06-05 05:59:11 PM

Bubbarella: I'm trying to keep some of you out of hell, but judging from all the hate, it's probably too late for that.


Just some of us? Shouldn't you be trying to keep ALL of us out of hell?
 
2012-06-05 05:59:34 PM
Who cares what a bunch of idiots think?
 
2012-06-05 05:59:40 PM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Antimatter: I'll be in Valhalla, thank you, feasting and fornicating until the day of Ragnarok. After that, who cares, as there is no after that.

I will be reincarnated as a slightly better person, as I have no chance of achieving enlightenment is this life.

But I won't go to hell.


To be fair, Buddhists DO have Hells. Many, many, many Hells, but they are orderly affairs, and you do time for the crime, THEN go back to the Great Wheel, hopefully having learned your lesson. Then again, in Buddhist Hells, the demons are still functions of the Celestial Bureaucracy, only instead of counting up taxes, they gather up your Hell Money and then throw your ass out into an endless vista of thirst and hunger while winds laden with shards of sorrow flense the skin from your hide, or torture you for years on end. In the end, they punch their time cards and do their jobs...
 
2012-06-05 06:00:18 PM

hubiestubert: I guess he might be listening to a couple of other church leaders instead...

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 640x287]


That church is obviously not part of a real religion because they believe God loves teh ghey.
 
2012-06-05 06:00:25 PM

Bubbarella: I'm trying to keep some of you out of hell, but judging from all the hate, it's probably too late for that.


I can appreciate that. But, I must ask, can you appreciate this: by shunning homosexuals from your community, you are giving them even more ammunition to be mad at God. Take them in, show them his love.
 
2012-06-05 06:00:43 PM
Xtians are soooo judgmental.
 
2012-06-05 06:00:48 PM

Dubwise: Bubbarella: I'm trying to keep some of you out of hell, but judging from all the hate, it's probably too late for that.

Just some of us? Shouldn't you be trying to keep ALL of us out of hell?


Some people deserve hell.
 
2012-06-05 06:00:50 PM

MrEricSir: Who cares what a bunch of idiots think?


Religious people. They tend to care a lot about what they think.
 
2012-06-05 06:01:44 PM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Antimatter: I'll be in Valhalla, thank you, feasting and fornicating until the day of Ragnarok. After that, who cares, as there is no after that.

I will be reincarnated as a slightly better person, as I have no chance of achieving enlightenment is this life.

But I won't go to hell.


Reincarnation isn't as fun.
 
2012-06-05 06:02:02 PM

Bubbarella: Di Atribe: Citrate1007: Or you know you can cite only the old testiment, which Jesus preached AGAINST

People who insist on the laws of the Old Testament are basically saying that Jesus dying for them wasn't good enough.

Jesus, the apostles, and the entire New Testament books taught nothing new. They might have taught in new ways, but they did not teach us new laws. Everything they taught was from the beginning, and is found in the Old Testament books. That's why Jesus and the apostles commonly preceded their teachings with "it is written," or "the scriptures saith," and then proceeded to quote God's written law from the Old Testament. Jesus might have explained what the Old Testament laws meant in different words, such as by using parables and such, but nonetheless, the truths he taught are all found in the Old Testament.


Oh. OK. So if you think that everything that was illegal in the OT should be illegal NOW, why is eating shrimp legal? Why do we not stone the whores at the city gates? Why are we allowed to wear two different fibers at the same time? Why dammit WHY the injustice, the horror of it all.... And really, why did we stop sacrificing mouthy children? I tell you what, I've got some nominees for that one.
 
2012-06-05 06:02:09 PM

Bubbarella: If the laws of nature started mimicking homosexuality...


So let me see if have this straight. You're arguing that in nature, apes don't form homosexual couples; so since we evolved from apes we shouldn't either. Do I have that right?
 
2012-06-05 06:02:10 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: I see what the man is saying. Instead of hating on him, white gays and white lesbians need to come down from their own cross, and see why it's offensive for whites to equate not getting a tax credit or optional shared health benefits to blacks not being able to cross the doors of many places. Shrug.


It wasn't easy for homosexuals in the 60's and earlier either. Jailings and beatings and lynchings were common for the homosexuals too not to mention the Holocaust. Both gays and blacks have made lots of progress in Civil Rights since then but right now blacks are a bit further ahead and the gays just want some help getting to where the blacks are now.
 
2012-06-05 06:02:11 PM

12349876: Bubbarella: A man with a man is confusion. A woman with a woman is confusion. There is no organ built for it.

I'd say the fingers are perfectly sized for hole penetration and mouths and anuses are also pretty well sized for penetration. You need some lube for the anal but it's interesting how poo logs are often penis size. Many women have an easier time getting orgasms with fingers than with cawk. If God only wanted us in vaginas he could have designed us differently so it was the only physically possible place for penis to go.


If God only wanted vaginal intercourse why is the clitoris not inside the vagina?
 
2012-06-05 06:02:47 PM

12349876: Bubbarella: A man with a man is confusion. A woman with a woman is confusion. There is no organ built for it.

I'd say the fingers are perfectly sized for hole penetration and mouths and anuses are also pretty well sized for penetration. You need some lube for the anal but it's interesting how poo logs are often penis size. Many women have an easier time getting orgasms with fingers than with cawk. If God only wanted us in vaginas he could have designed us differently so it was the only physically possible place for penis to go.



That's a slippery slope. (and It was never about pleasure, anyway, but about procreation.)
 
2012-06-05 06:03:42 PM

Bubbarella: Dubwise: Bubbarella: I'm trying to keep some of you out of hell, but judging from all the hate, it's probably too late for that.

Just some of us? Shouldn't you be trying to keep ALL of us out of hell?

Some people deserve hell.


Niiiccceee...
 
2012-06-05 06:04:33 PM

Bubbarella: hell.


you just wait til teh gays are allowed to marry, then your hell will be my delight.

not today, maybe not tomorrow but eventually for sure.
 
2012-06-05 06:05:14 PM

PonceAlyosha: Antimatter: Nadie_AZ: Bubbarella: A man with a man is confusion.

Is that what it felt like? Go on. You can be honest.

I'll be in Valhalla, thank you, feasting and fornicating until the day of Ragnarok. After that, who cares, as there is no after that.

Yes there is, but everyone except those two gods who survive will be (over-)dead.


Does that mean we go to over-valhalla?
 
2012-06-05 06:05:16 PM

Kome: MrEricSir: Who cares what a bunch of idiots think?

Religious people. They tend to care a lot about what they think.


Why did you repeat what I just said?
 
2012-06-05 06:05:46 PM

MrEricSir: Who cares what a bunch of idiots think?


Because some idiots might listen to them & then it might turn into enough idiots to tip the election and/or beat a gay kid to death. Mas o menos.

PragmaticSoldier: Also, the moment you make a statement about who goes and does not go to hell, is the moment you attempt to use God's name in vain.

Remember Christianity is not about hate, its about peace. When you spread hate filled messages you spread hate, and you plant the seeds of evil. So stop giving us Christians a bad name.


Can I get a witness up in here. Well said.
 
2012-06-05 06:06:56 PM

Bubbarella: Dubwise: Bubbarella: I'm trying to keep some of you out of hell, but judging from all the hate, it's probably too late for that.

Just some of us? Shouldn't you be trying to keep ALL of us out of hell?

Some people deserve hell.


And it seems reasonable for you, or other humans to make such statements. That makes sense. So God is not good enough to make the decision himself. You get to make it for Him?
II Peter 3:9

I know I haven't been in Fark that long, but seriously do all politics tabs go to religion this quickly?
 
2012-06-05 06:07:20 PM

Kome: MrEricSir: Who cares what a bunch of idiots think?

Religious people. They tend to care a lot about what they think.


Hmmm...you seem to imply that religious people can't think for themselves.
 
2012-06-05 06:07:36 PM
I do so love when the bigoted morons invoke Reverend Martin Luther King Jr who publicly supported gay rights.
 
2012-06-05 06:07:37 PM

Di Atribe: Bubbarella: Di Atribe: Citrate1007: Or you know you can cite only the old testiment, which Jesus preached AGAINST

People who insist on the laws of the Old Testament are basically saying that Jesus dying for them wasn't good enough.

Jesus, the apostles, and the entire New Testament books taught nothing new. They might have taught in new ways, but they did not teach us new laws. Everything they taught was from the beginning, and is found in the Old Testament books. That's why Jesus and the apostles commonly preceded their teachings with "it is written," or "the scriptures saith," and then proceeded to quote God's written law from the Old Testament. Jesus might have explained what the Old Testament laws meant in different words, such as by using parables and such, but nonetheless, the truths he taught are all found in the Old Testament.

Oh. OK. So if you think that everything that was illegal in the OT should be illegal NOW, why is eating shrimp legal? Why do we not stone the whores at the city gates? Why are we allowed to wear two different fibers at the same time? Why dammit WHY the injustice, the horror of it all.... And really, why did we stop sacrificing mouthy children? I tell you what, I've got some nominees for that one.


Instead of getting all snippy with me, try reading the Bible, if you even have one.
 
2012-06-05 06:07:39 PM

hubiestubert: Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Antimatter: I'll be in Valhalla, thank you, feasting and fornicating until the day of Ragnarok. After that, who cares, as there is no after that.

I will be reincarnated as a slightly better person, as I have no chance of achieving enlightenment is this life.

But I won't go to hell.

To be fair, Buddhists DO have Hells. Many, many, many Hells, but they are orderly affairs, and you do time for the crime, THEN go back to the Great Wheel, hopefully having learned your lesson. Then again, in Buddhist Hells, the demons are still functions of the Celestial Bureaucracy, only instead of counting up taxes, they gather up your Hell Money and then throw your ass out into an endless vista of thirst and hunger while winds laden with shards of sorrow flense the skin from your hide, or torture you for years on end. In the end, they punch their time cards and do their jobs...


As long as I can avoid the Hell of Boiling Oil and the Hell of Horny Dragons, I'll be cool.
 
2012-06-05 06:08:15 PM

PragmaticSoldier: Bubbarella: Dubwise: Bubbarella: I'm trying to keep some of you out of hell, but judging from all the hate, it's probably too late for that.

Just some of us? Shouldn't you be trying to keep ALL of us out of hell?

Some people deserve hell.

And it seems reasonable for you, or other humans to make such statements. That makes sense. So God is not good enough to make the decision himself. You get to make it for Him?
II Peter 3:9

I know I haven't been in Fark that long, but seriously do all politics tabs go to religion this quickly?


It's virtually impossible to avoid it when one of the two major parties in America believes it is their duty to make this country a Prosperity Gospel-ruled theocracy.
 
2012-06-05 06:08:17 PM

12349876: It wasn't easy for homosexuals in the 60's and earlier either. Jailings and beatings and lynchings were common for the homosexuals too not to mention the Holocaust. Both gays and blacks have made lots of progress in Civil Rights since then but right now blacks are a bit further ahead and the gays just want some help getting to where the blacks are now.


Fun fact: ExperianScaresCthulhu is a violent misogynist who believes that there's no such thing as rape; all rape victims either wanted it, are lying or both. His opinion is worth as much as these pastors'.
 
2012-06-05 06:08:25 PM

Serious Black: hubiestubert: I guess he might be listening to a couple of other church leaders instead...

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 640x287]

That church is obviously not part of a real religion because they believe God loves teh ghey.


Yeah, sort of like these Iowa clergy who stood up for marriage equality...

I know a lot of folks tend to think of faith as being an enemy of marriage equality, but there a good number of churches that support their gay and lesbian parishioners...which a lot of other churches just want to hate to death. And for damns sure don't want to hear anything about freedom of religion in respect to the issue.
 
2012-06-05 06:09:12 PM

Bubbarella: I'm trying to keep some of you out of hell, but judging from all the hate, it's probably too late for that.


fark you, and fark you're imaginary sky-buddy.
 
2012-06-05 06:09:15 PM

Bubbarella: Instead of getting all snippy with me, try reading the Bible, if you even have one.


When you don't have answer, resort to personal attacks.
 
2012-06-05 06:09:21 PM

Serious Black: cman: Didn't Jesus say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?
Didnt God say "Love thy Neighbor"?
Didnt Jesus also say, "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."?

This is what God wants. He wants us to love each other (not in the sexual way, the friendly Ned Flanders way). He does not want for us to be divided by some petty disputes. How does a man who performs oral sex on another man affect you? If you are not in the room, why should you care?

God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve?

Seriously though, I've made the exact arguments you posed above to all kinds of anti-gay people, and I've asked them how we show love to our LGBT neighbors if we don't let them marry, openly serve in the military, etc. They generally have no response or respond solely with religious pablum.


When you get done patting yourself on the back, realize this; You already dismissed their arguments out of hand as pablum. You had pre-decided that they had nothing of value to add, no argument they could make was worth considering from the other side. You were about as ready to listen to them, as they were ready to listen to you. And you tangled with them specifically because they had religious pablum to offer. You wanted a glass jaw fight for yourself, so you found them.

If you can't see it from the other person's point of view, consider their point of view, and then decide afterwards why that point of view doesn't work for you that's one thing.

Pre-deciding their arguments were beneath consideration isn't a debate. It's talk radio.

For those who use scripture to back up their points of view, you gotta get serious about using scripture back, even if you think all scripture is merely pablum (and sometimes slightly less, but still pablum, when you agree with it).
 
2012-06-05 06:09:43 PM

Bubbarella: Di Atribe: Bubbarella: Di Atribe: Citrate1007: Or you know you can cite only the old testiment, which Jesus preached AGAINST

People who insist on the laws of the Old Testament are basically saying that Jesus dying for them wasn't good enough.

Jesus, the apostles, and the entire New Testament books taught nothing new. They might have taught in new ways, but they did not teach us new laws. Everything they taught was from the beginning, and is found in the Old Testament books. That's why Jesus and the apostles commonly preceded their teachings with "it is written," or "the scriptures saith," and then proceeded to quote God's written law from the Old Testament. Jesus might have explained what the Old Testament laws meant in different words, such as by using parables and such, but nonetheless, the truths he taught are all found in the Old Testament.

Oh. OK. So if you think that everything that was illegal in the OT should be illegal NOW, why is eating shrimp legal? Why do we not stone the whores at the city gates? Why are we allowed to wear two different fibers at the same time? Why dammit WHY the injustice, the horror of it all.... And really, why did we stop sacrificing mouthy children? I tell you what, I've got some nominees for that one.

Instead of getting all snippy with me, try reading the Bible, if you even have one.


It was reading the bible that turned me into an atheist.
 
2012-06-05 06:10:01 PM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: As long as I can avoid the Hell of Boiling Oil and the Hell of Horny Dragons, I'll be cool.


Hey, those horny dragons are just trying to make a living. WHY DO YOU HATE PUBLIC SERVANTS WHO ARE JUST DOING THEIR JOB?
 
2012-06-05 06:10:30 PM

gimmegimme: Kome: MrEricSir: Who cares what a bunch of idiots think?

Religious people. They tend to care a lot about what they think.

Hmmm...you seem to imply that religious people can't think for themselves.


It was as though I compared them to a flock of sheep in need of a shepherd? Strange.
 
2012-06-05 06:10:39 PM

12349876: Bubbarella: Instead of getting all snippy with me, try reading the Bible, if you even have one.

When you don't have answer, resort to personal attacks.


Well, do you have one?

/i would have gone with 'which version?' myself, but then again...
 
2012-06-05 06:12:10 PM
Anti-Christian circle jerk thread, how quaint.
 
2012-06-05 06:12:18 PM

hubiestubert: Hey, those horny dragons are just trying to make a living. WHY DO YOU HATE PUBLIC SERVANTS WHO ARE JUST DOING THEIR JOB?


The horny dragons local 405 is responsible for the incredible debt hell has racked up over the last 1,000 years. What else do you expect, when you guarantee pensions and health benefits for immortal creatures?
 
2012-06-05 06:12:23 PM

Bubbarella: Di Atribe: Bubbarella: Di Atribe: Citrate1007: Or you know you can cite only the old testiment, which Jesus preached AGAINST

People who insist on the laws of the Old Testament are basically saying that Jesus dying for them wasn't good enough.

Jesus, the apostles, and the entire New Testament books taught nothing new. They might have taught in new ways, but they did not teach us new laws. Everything they taught was from the beginning, and is found in the Old Testament books. That's why Jesus and the apostles commonly preceded their teachings with "it is written," or "the scriptures saith," and then proceeded to quote God's written law from the Old Testament. Jesus might have explained what the Old Testament laws meant in different words, such as by using parables and such, but nonetheless, the truths he taught are all found in the Old Testament.

Oh. OK. So if you think that everything that was illegal in the OT should be illegal NOW, why is eating shrimp legal? Why do we not stone the whores at the city gates? Why are we allowed to wear two different fibers at the same time? Why dammit WHY the injustice, the horror of it all.... And really, why did we stop sacrificing mouthy children? I tell you what, I've got some nominees for that one.

Instead of getting all snippy with me, try reading the Bible, if you even have one.


Have you? Its blatantly obvious the Bible I own and the one you own have two very different messages. Your Bible seems to include the Old Testament. Mine has the New and Old Testaments, and some red lettering. The red lettering is the stuff I pay special attention to. What part do you?
 
2012-06-05 06:12:53 PM

Kome: gimmegimme: Kome: MrEricSir: Who cares what a bunch of idiots think?

Religious people. They tend to care a lot about what they think.

Hmmm...you seem to imply that religious people can't think for themselves.

It was as though I compared them to a flock of sheep in need of a shepherd? Strange.


It's too bad that religions can't treat people like human beings. On the other hand, if religions had respect for their adherents, they wouldn't have any believers at all.
 
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