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(Yahoo)   FL's "stand Your ground" defense has worked in cases where the attacker was running at the shooter backwards or even cleverly lying prone on the ground to lull them into a false sense of security   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 283
    More: Florida, legal defense, America First, Sunnyvale, California, reasonable beliefs, waste of time, security, investigation  
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7016 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jun 2012 at 2:04 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-05 04:19:05 PM  
Gawd damn it! When will you people admit the truth? Martin was a violent thug, whacked out of his mind on a drug he made from his juice and Skittles, who chased down peace-loving-minding-his-own-business Zimmerman and attacked him for NO REASON!!!

Once you wrap your head around that truth, you'll understand why Farkers are sending money to Zimmerman.
 
2012-06-05 04:20:55 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Silly Jesus: stonicus: Phinn: Persnickety: And there's the problem of: If both parties feel threatened, can both legally be said to be standing their ground?

Sure. It's called mutual mistake. Both parties could mistakenly, but reasonably, believe they were under an imminent threat.

The duty to retreat is, and always was, bullshiat. Good riddance.

Adopting SYG rules means that people ought to be careful not to threaten people, and to not even give people a reason to believe that you are threatening them. It's really not that hard. People need to be responsible for the outcome of their own lives.

But what about people like Zimmerman? Despite the fact he was driving around looking for trouble, had a gun, got out of his car against police advice, followed someone walking down the road... he still has no concept how this could be threatening to someone else. In his mind, the fact the kid didn't just get on the ground and wait for cops to show up to clear his name made him feel righteous in his actions. Self-righteousness + a gun = nothing but trouble and danger for everyone.

It's not that hard? If just walking home from the store makes someone feel threatened enough to start following you and call the cops on you, then yeah, it really is that hard.

Um, you left out a very important part...

yeah Zimmerman wanted to make damn sure this "asshole" wasn't another one of those that "always get away" and make it out the back gate of his hood.


Lol
 
2012-06-05 04:24:52 PM  

cirby: Does it bother you to know that everything you "know" about that case is wrong?


Oh. Look. You're pretending that Zimmerman's account to the police is verified fact. How cute.

I wish your mother had raised you better. All you do in these threads is lie. It's very annoying.
 
2012-06-05 04:28:56 PM  

21-37-42: Dimensio: 21-37-42: Dimensio: stonicus: Andulamb:

I am mistaken. .

Dude, this is FARK, you can't just concede like that. Erect a strawman, move the goalposts, something....


Gun control is the tinfoil hat that liberals use to keep bullets out of their brains?
 
2012-06-05 04:29:43 PM  

cirby: Hobodeluxe:
well see now you're putting words into her mouth

Fewer than you did.

That's why I put the (for example) part in. Maybe you missed that. I was pointing out that when you start interpreting what things mean, there are often several ways to interpret the same words.

Of course, I notice that you didn't mention that someone else could have "put words in her mouth" before she made that statement in a phone interview. And that you assumed that the "words" were accurate in the first place, which they almost certainly were not.


bullshiat. I put no words in her mouth. zero zilch none.

stonicus: cirby: Hobodeluxe:
Zimmerman did not get back in his vehicle. He claimed he was headed back to it.

The first encounter - when Zimmerman saw Martin - was at the north end of the neighborhood.

The second encounter - near where Zimmerman's vehicle was found - was at the south end of the neighborhood. By Zimmerman's house.

How did he get his vehicle (and his groceries) to his house if he didn't drive it? Teleportation?

If Martin was avoiding the fight, why was the fatal encounter farther away from his own home, deeper into Zimmerman's neighborhood? When he could have just walked out of the area by taking the shortest route, bu the entrance he came in?

I find it fascinating that Trayvon Martin can outrun a car.


I find it fascinating that trayvon's mom's house was in the next block of buildings from where he was killed and he was on a direct path to there and still this guy thinks he went out of his way to go after Zimmerman, Either he's ignorant or intentionally being misleading. Trayvon had no reason to leave the neighborhood.
 
2012-06-05 04:31:33 PM  

Hobodeluxe: I find it fascinating that trayvon's mom's house was in the next block of buildings from where he was killed


I find it fascinating that you think this took place in Miami, where Trayvon's mom lives.
 
2012-06-05 04:31:41 PM  

Dimensio: 21-37-42: Dimensio: 21-37-42: Dimensio: stonicus: Andulamb:

I am mistaken. .

Dude, this is FARK, you can't just concede like that. Erect a strawman, move the goalposts, something....

Gun control is the tinfoil hat that liberals use to keep bullets out of their brains?


There you go, fling some derp and move on. Nothing to see here...
 
2012-06-05 04:34:15 PM  

Resolute: One of the scary things about America is how many people seem willing to defend cold blooded murder.


But it was murder against THUGS! And we are scared of thugs, so we have to make it okay for people to shoot people who scare them a lot. Don't you get it?
 
2012-06-05 04:35:00 PM  

Magorn: Zimmerman told the 911 dispatcher that Martin was running from him and that he intended to give chase.

"Giving chase" and "running to a position where your line of sight is not obstructed in order to maintain visual contact with someone" are two very different things. "Chasing" and "Stalking" are much more inflammatory though, so I can see why they are repeatedly used. It's misleading, and that's what's needed to try to convict Zimmerman.

SYG is available ONLY if you do not initate the violence

Um, NO. Not at all. You can Google it easily. Dershowitz explains this common misconception pretty well. There are many others who have tried to lay this lie/misconception to rest as well. It's out there if you're interested in the facts.

Ordering someone to stop, lay on the ground, etc, under threat of violence, or while armed is common-law asault, false arrest/imprisonment and/or kidnapping.

Evidence that anything even remotely close to this ever happened?

 
2012-06-05 04:35:43 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Hobodeluxe: I find it fascinating that trayvon's mom's house was in the next block of buildings from where he was killed

I find it fascinating that you think this took place in Miami, where Trayvon's mom lives.


okay it wasn't his mom's place but where he was staying was in that last block of townhouses down that sidewalk. he was headed in that direction and was almost there. Zimmerman followed him from the front entrance in his truck then got out and followed him on foot down the sidewalk (or he drove down to the cutoff in between the buildings and headed him off)
We still don't have the police report showing where his truck was parked.
 
2012-06-05 04:43:46 PM  
 
2012-06-05 04:44:16 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Also there were some time before the shooting that witnesses say they heard them arguing and shouting at each other. then the screams for help when they were struggling. if they were arguing ,shouting, and asking each other questions (as per the gf's testimony) does that sound like Trayvon ambushed him from behind as he was headed back to the truck?
There is absolutely no reason at all to believe Zimmerman's account of this. it doesn't make sense. Both he and Trayvon would have had to change their minds and turn around from what we know as a fact (per Zimmerman's own phone call) were their previous attitudes. Zimmerman would have had to have broken off the chase and Trayvon would have had to have for some reason turn back from going home (which he was almost there) and go after this stranger who was chasing him.


Explain how an in-shape, high school football player running at full speed away from big bad scary Zimmerman can't make it to an apartment 100 yards away in the course of 2 minutes?

After Zimmerman saw Martin round the corner of the building (feet from where the final incident took place) there were 2+ more minutes of phone conversation before the physical altercation.

For the incident to have taken place at that location, Martin either was in hiding and came out...or he circled back.

Also, using the word "chase" is getting silly. Running to gain position in order to maintain visual contact with someone from a distance is hardly what is implied when the word "chase" is used. There is no evidence whatsoever that Zimmerman was attempting to make physical contact with Martin and plenty of evidence that he was merely trying to maintain visual contact with him. You and the others that repeatedly use "chase" are being insincere and inflammatory.

Witnesses and physical evidence back up Zimmerman's version of events. Hell, Zimmerman's case is so good that the prosecutor had to commit perjury just to bring the charges. How does that translate in your mind to "no reason whatsoever to believe anything Zimmerman says?"
 
2012-06-05 05:00:30 PM  

Silly Jesus: Also, using the word "chase" is getting silly


So using the word chase is silly and inflammatory (would followed quickly or intently be okay?)...


Silly Jesus: prosecutor had to commit perjury


But using the word perjury is fine and dandy.

You Zimmerman apologist are a cranky lot.

How ya gonna spin the text Zimmerman sent using the N word?
 
2012-06-05 05:05:12 PM  

NightOwl2255: But using the word perjury is fine and dandy.


Well, that's pretty undisputed if Corey had the facts of the case, yet did not include them in the affidavit filed with the court.

NightOwl2255: How ya gonna spin the text Zimmerman sent using the N word?


We going to start calling Gweneth Paltrow a racist too?

I'm curious to find where this was reported outside of a site called "GuiltPoll.com" because that's the only story I can find and every other site refers back to them and their "sources."
 
2012-06-05 05:07:52 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: stonicus: cirby: Hobodeluxe:
Zimmerman did not get back in his vehicle. He claimed he was headed back to it.

The first encounter - when Zimmerman saw Martin - was at the north end of the neighborhood.

The second encounter - near where Zimmerman's vehicle was found - was at the south end of the neighborhood. By Zimmerman's house.

How did he get his vehicle (and his groceries) to his house if he didn't drive it? Teleportation?

If Martin was avoiding the fight, why was the fatal encounter farther away from his own home, deeper into Zimmerman's neighborhood? When he could have just walked out of the area by taking the shortest route, bu the entrance he came in?

I find it fascinating that Trayvon Martin can outrun a car.

I find it fascinating that you believe that a car can drive down sidewalks.


I find it fascinating that people have no trouble believing that Martin was some demon beast hopped up on drugs and prowling the streets casing houses for breaking and entering, when he was walking home after getting some candy and iced tea.

It wasn't his fault that the neighborhood had suffered some break-ins and everybody seemed to be paranoid, especially the self-appointed sheriff who sees a black man walking down the street, calls 911 and tells them that "these *expletive* always get away" while pursuing the scary suspicious black person on the grounds that he thought Martin was skulking about looking for homes to rob.

But hey, character assassination is easy when the person isn't alive anymore to defend himself.
 
2012-06-05 05:16:00 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: We going to start calling Gweneth Paltrow a racist too?


If Zimmerman texted; hey this song "n-word in paris is da bomb" that's one thing. If he texted, "just killed me a n-word", that might be looked on in a different light, no?
 
2012-06-05 05:19:27 PM  

NightOwl2255: The_Six_Fingered_Man: We going to start calling Gweneth Paltrow a racist too?

If Zimmerman texted; hey this song "n-word in paris is da bomb" that's one thing. If he texted, "just killed me a n-word", that might be looked on in a different light, no?


Not according to most that lambasted Paltrow.

But again, you have this from someone other than guiltpoll.com?
 
2012-06-05 05:24:09 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: But again, you have this from someone other than guiltpoll.com?


I didn't get it from there. I got it from, of all places, 9beers (head of the Zimmerman Admiration Club)

I don't know if Zimmerman actually did text the n-word.
 
2012-06-05 05:25:21 PM  

NightOwl2255: The_Six_Fingered_Man: But again, you have this from someone other than guiltpoll.com?

I didn't get it from there. I got it from, of all places, 9beers (head of the Zimmerman Admiration Club)

I don't know if Zimmerman actually did text the n-word.


So this is the one time that you chose to believe him?
 
2012-06-05 05:30:01 PM  
In other words, Florida's law lets the average citizen act like the police?

Side note, it's not just US police who execute people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UyB6D_vcnA
 
2012-06-05 05:31:35 PM  

Sticky Hands: ChipNASA: [j.wigflip.com image 376x662]

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN RULES!!!
[content8.flixster.com image 320x254]


I love Rex Kramer!

Link for all those whom this is obscure.
 
2012-06-05 05:39:49 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: So this is the one time that you chose to believe him?


Did you miss this (I'll bold it for you): I don't know if Zimmerman actually did text the n-word.
 
2012-06-05 05:40:12 PM  

pedrop357: In other words, Florida's law lets the average citizen act like the police?

Side note, it's not just US police who execute people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UyB6D_vcnA


Oh shiat. That's pretty damning.
 
2012-06-05 05:42:09 PM  

NightOwl2255: The_Six_Fingered_Man: So this is the one time that you chose to believe him?

Did you miss this (I'll bold it for you): I don't know if Zimmerman actually did text the n-word.


Maybe you missed your original bit of text:

NightOwl2255: How ya gonna spin the text Zimmerman sent using the N word?


It wasn't until I questioned the validity of the source that you started backtracking.
 
2012-06-05 05:44:25 PM  

Kit Fister: Magorn: "That's right officer, I was just standing here holding this knife, when he ran into it, backwards, 14 times"

There was marcia...and sandra...and irving. I guess you could say we suffered creative differences. He saw himself as alive. I. saw. him. dead.

/obscure?


If you think you can trick me into admitting that I can recognize lyrics to a musical, you have another thing coming.

/Mr. Cellophane
 
2012-06-05 05:45:10 PM  
The more I read actual cases of the "Stand Your Ground" law at work, the less it seems like standing your ground and more like "colossal asshole picks a fight with a stranger, then shoots/stabs and kills the stranger, then claims law justifies his assholery."

Nice job, Floriduh legislature. I guess if you dipshiats don't mind letting these brain donors run around armed, killing strangers at will, no reason why I should care, either, as long as I stay the fark out of Florida.
 
2012-06-05 05:47:24 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: It wasn't until I questioned the validity of the source that you started backtracking.


Good point.

The_Six_Fingered_Man - 1
NightOwl2255 - 0
 
2012-06-05 05:50:59 PM  

Silly Jesus: Raoul Eaton: Silly Jesus: farker99: See, in the south the white folks have to find some way to be able to shoot the black folks legally.

Stand Your Ground.

Sounds good don't it?

/it sucks
//big time

Race Card, yay!

Also, know what percentage of these cases involve a white guy shooting a black guy?

It's always reassuring when someone says "Race Card," because that phrase magically means racism doesn't exist.

So you actually think that this law was written for the sole purpose of providing a future defense in the very statistically rare circumstance where a white guy shoots and kills a black guy under dubious circumstances?

[encrypted-tbn1.google.com image 215x235]


No, I was just pointing out that people who use the phrase "Race Card" generally are dog-whistling dimwits. And, the racism is in the law as applied, not as written. But I do like your self-portrait.
 
2012-06-05 05:55:00 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: The more I read actual cases of the "Stand Your Ground" law at work, the less it seems like standing your ground and more like "colossal asshole picks a fight with a stranger, then shoots/stabs and kills the stranger, then claims law justifies his assholery."


According to the way the law is written in Florida, a CCW holder could walk up to anyone, sucker punch them and start kicking their ass. If at any point the tables are turned the CCW holder can pull his (or her) gun and shoot and kill and claim "I was in fear for my life". Under SYG laws, that would be a justifiable killing. And you might even get an award from a Farker.
 
2012-06-05 06:13:43 PM  
Okay... I know this is FARK, and I'm not supposed to RTFA, but I did. Then, I followed the link from TFA to TFSource... even worse.

TFA claims that if you walk down the street you can't help but step in puddles of blood from all the killings (exaggeration mine, I know) where the perps got away with it because of Stand your Ground.

TFS of TFA says the same thing, but cites references... from what I can tell, nearly every person who shoots or otherwise kills or injures someone claims self defense, which is not really different from any other state. But, they've all heard of this "Stand your Ground" thing, which is not totally unique to Florida. Most all of the claims, according to TFS, are rejected. A few seemingly egregious ones are in there, but I don't know the details of the case... if the newspaper's information is correct, then the judge shouldn't have dropped the charges, but that's their fault, not the legislator's.


As far as Zimmerman... we don't know the details of the case other than what's been released (intentionally or otherwise) to the media. And we may never really know, since the only witness is the one defending himself.
 
2012-06-05 06:25:46 PM  

Silly Jesus: Does this mean that all the Farkers who still think that Zimmerman will be convicted will finally snap into reality?

Whether you think it's just or not, it seems pretty blatantly obvious that, based on the wording of the law and the previous cases decided by it, that Zimmerman will go free.


Unless the prosecution manages to get the case law overturned on appeal by a higher court, I think you're right.

I also think it's terrible law. Here in PA the duty to retreat still exists. I'm pretty sure we have a lower murder/non-negligent homicide rate than Florida despite that.

Andulamb: This law is so vague, it's a miracle there are any Floridians still alive.

So if I'm in Florida and I get into a fight with someone in a public place, I get to kill them? Maybe even if someone just threatens me, I get to kill them? Or if I just think someone is going to hurt me, I get to kill them?


Yes, as long as your belief that you are going to get (seriously) hurt is deemed "reasonable."
 
2012-06-05 06:35:00 PM  

Magorn: 21-37-42: SYG is available ONLY if you do not initate the violence

Not true in Florida according to the statute, which spells out that even an aggressor can claim justifiable use of deadly force in some circumstances.
 
2012-06-05 06:40:44 PM  

21-37-42: 1. Per the medical examiner, Trayvon Martin had two injuries : the fatal gunshot wound to the chest and broken skin on his knuckles


No, he had an abrasion on his left ring finger, between the first and second knuckles.

I wonder if he had a ring on and got the abrasion when Zimmman stole it.

Also the GSW has a flat trajectory, which is consistent with the shooter and victim standing, as opposed to being in a struggle.
 
2012-06-05 06:50:42 PM  

Hobodeluxe:

There is absolutely no reason at all to believe Zimmerman's account of this.


Well, the account he gave police hasn't been released to the public yet, but I don't believe the stuff his family has asserted up to now. However, given the case law under Florida's justifiable use of force statute, and the evidence that has come out so far that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and punching him (one eyewitness, photographic/medical evidence that Zimmerman had been struck), I think that Zimmerman will either get his charges dropped or to get a directed verdict for an acquittal without even having to testify on his own behalf.
 
2012-06-05 07:07:00 PM  

21-37-42: Here's my FARKtm Law GED input on this:

The charges against Zimmerman are 2nd degree murder. In order to convict a defendant in Florida of that crime, the prosecution must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

1. The victim is dead;
2. The death was caused by the criminal act of the defendant;
3. There was an unlawful killing of the victim by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life.

Items 2 and 3 above are going to be tough for the prosecution.

The Florida statue (776.012) says that a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself.

1. Per the medical examiner, Trayvon Martin had two injuries : the fatal gunshot wound to the chest and broken skin on his knuckles.
2. Zimmerman's injuries (as described the day after the shooting) were: a pair of black eyes, a fractured nose and two cuts to the back of his head

Even my stellar law credentials would suggest that this is a defensible case based on those facts. "My client, who had a reason to be where he was (neighborhood watch) approached
the Mr. Martin. He merely asked Mr. Martin who he was and where he was going and Mr. Martin attacked him. The injuries to my client indicate that he was on his back and being hit by the Mr. Martin. The injuries to Mr. Martin indicate that he was hitting my client with his fists when he was shot in the chest. My client feared for his life as he was being savagely beaten, so he drew his weapon and fired a single shot.

What I'm concerned about now is what happens when/if Zimmerman is acquitted. Are we going to see the same level of civil disorder as when the first Rodney King (can't we all just get along) ended in acquittals?


Well, I fear for your client when his GED lawyer gets the facts wrong.

1. There was no organized neighborhood watch. Zimmerman was a self-appointed neighborhood watcher.
2. He was not patrolling in his self-appointed role. He was on his way to the grocery store.
3. "reason to be there" is not relevant. It's a public street/sidewalk, anyone can be there. There's no legal consideration of who had or didn't have a "right" to be there.
 
2012-06-05 08:30:01 PM  
Another "Lynch Zimmerman" thread with a Bed-Wetting Liberal media source that cannot even get the facts of Stand Your Ground law accurate

I think even the most racist Black KKK Racist and the most idiot White Guilt Liberal knows that convicting George Zimmerman of anything is slim and none...and that is even if Al Sharpton gets to pick the jury and Dan Savage butt-rapes the judge. This recent nonsense over the bail money is pathetic...and is only pandering to the same Black KKK Racist Hate Groups and their White Guilt Liberal supporters who want GZ in jail

Too bad these same groups do not want to address the massive violent crime rate among black males in this nation. That would do more to prevent SYG tragedies that trying to take away the civil right of all to defend themselves
 
2012-06-05 09:24:18 PM  

NightOwl2255: Silly Jesus: Also, using the word "chase" is getting silly

So using the word chase is silly and inflammatory (would followed quickly or intently be okay?)...


Silly Jesus: prosecutor had to commit perjury

But using the word perjury is fine and dandy.

You Zimmerman apologist are a cranky lot.

How ya gonna spin the text Zimmerman sent using the N word?


1. You know that you lot are using it to imply that he was intending to physically catch up to Martin. There is no evidence of that, and the evidence that does exist goes contrary to that notion.

2. Perjury is a legal term. It's a crime. Why should another word be used? A Harvard Law Professor, among others, has assessed pertinent facts and deemed her actions to meet the criminal definition of perjury.

3. Haven't seen that text. How ya gonna spin the two impoverished black children that he and his wife tutored for free? Sort of an odd hobby for a racist, don't ya think?
 
2012-06-05 09:29:29 PM  

Raoul Eaton: Silly Jesus: Raoul Eaton: Silly Jesus: farker99: See, in the south the white folks have to find some way to be able to shoot the black folks legally.

Stand Your Ground.

Sounds good don't it?

/it sucks
//big time

Race Card, yay!

Also, know what percentage of these cases involve a white guy shooting a black guy?

It's always reassuring when someone says "Race Card," because that phrase magically means racism doesn't exist.

So you actually think that this law was written for the sole purpose of providing a future defense in the very statistically rare circumstance where a white guy shoots and kills a black guy under dubious circumstances?

[encrypted-tbn1.google.com image 215x235]

No, I was just pointing out that people who use the phrase "Race Card" generally are dog-whistling dimwits. And, the racism is in the law as applied, not as written. But I do like your self-portrait.


citationneeded.jpg
 
2012-06-05 09:34:22 PM  

NightOwl2255: Smelly Pirate Hooker: The more I read actual cases of the "Stand Your Ground" law at work, the less it seems like standing your ground and more like "colossal asshole picks a fight with a stranger, then shoots/stabs and kills the stranger, then claims law justifies his assholery."

According to the way the law is written in Florida, a CCW holder could walk up to anyone, sucker punch them and start kicking their ass. If at any point the tables are turned the CCW holder can pull his (or her) gun and shoot and kill and claim "I was in fear for my life". Under SYG laws, that would be a justifiable killing. And you might even get an award from a Farker.


Not quite.

If you are actively posing an immediate threat to someone's life (deadly force - beating the shiat out of them) and they fight back with deadly force, you as the initial deadly force aggressor don't have the ability to use SYG.

On the other hand...

If you are NOT actively posing an immediate threat to someone's life (observing them at a distance) and they fight back with deadly force, you DO have the ability to use SYG.
 
2012-06-05 09:42:32 PM  

cretinbob: 21-37-42: 1. Per the medical examiner, Trayvon Martin had two injuries : the fatal gunshot wound to the chest and broken skin on his knuckles

No, he had an abrasion on his left ring finger, between the first and second knuckles.

I wonder if he had a ring on and got the abrasion when Zimmman stole it.

Also the GSW has a flat trajectory, which is consistent with the shooter and victim standing, as opposed to being in a struggle.


Ah, a different approach. I didn't realize that the desperation in the Martin camp had gotten so great that robbery is now a valid theory.

Also hadn't heard that in the few seconds between both guys being seen lying on the ground (prior to the shot) and on the ground immediately following the shot, they somehow both levitated to get the shot off. Everyone knows that a gun can't be fired straight if you are parallel to the ground. Why didn't anyone think of this sooner?
 
2012-06-05 09:50:00 PM  

UCFRoadWarrior: Another "Lynch Zimmerman" thread with a Bed-Wetting Liberal media source that cannot even get the facts of Stand Your Ground law accurate

I think even the most racist Black KKK Racist and the most idiot White Guilt Liberal knows that convicting George Zimmerman of anything is slim and none...and that is even if Al Sharpton gets to pick the jury and Dan Savage butt-rapes the judge. This recent nonsense over the bail money is pathetic...and is only pandering to the same Black KKK Racist Hate Groups and their White Guilt Liberal supporters who want GZ in jail

Too bad these same groups do not want to address the massive violent crime rate among black males in this nation. That would do more to prevent SYG tragedies that trying to take away the civil right of all to defend themselves



I see you using that phrase constantly. I'm just curious...do you consider 'white guilt liberals' to be traitors to their race?
 
2012-06-05 09:59:32 PM  
i651.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-05 10:09:28 PM  

Silly Jesus: 1. You know that you lot are using it to imply that he was intending to physically catch up to Martin. There is no evidence of that, and the evidence that does exist goes contrary to that notion.


Chase:
1
a : to follow rapidly : pursue
b : hunt

That should put your silly argument to rest. Or do you want to continue your silly argument that Zimmerman was not following, chasing, pursuing or hunting Martin?

Silly Jesus: 2. Perjury is a legal term. It's a crime. Why should another word be used? A Harvard Law Professor, among others, has assessed pertinent facts and deemed her actions to meet the criminal definition of perjury.


Has she been charge with perjury? Has she been convicted of perjury? Can you understand that without qualifying your assertion with a "may have" you are just simply spouting unproven accusations. "Zimmerman committed murder". He has not been convicted of it, but several lawyers say his actions rise to the level of second degree murder. See how that works?

Silly Jesus: 3. Haven't seen that text. How ya gonna spin the two impoverished black children that he and his wife tutored for free? Sort of an odd hobby for a racist, don't ya think?


So if he did in fact send text referring to n-words, you're going with "some of his best friends are black" spin? Exactly as expected.

I kind of, not really, feel sorry for you and the other members of the Zimmerman Admiration Club. If the charges were dropped tomorrow it would not change the fact that Zimmerman is reprehensible guy. Too bad you spent all that time and effort building that pedestal.
 
2012-06-05 10:13:01 PM  

Silly Jesus: If you are NOT actively posing an immediate threat to someone's life (observing them at a distance) and they fight back with deadly force, you DO have the ability to use SYG.


Must be some long arms.
 
2012-06-05 11:24:14 PM  

NightOwl2255: Silly Jesus: 1. You know that you lot are using it to imply that he was intending to physically catch up to Martin. There is no evidence of that, and the evidence that does exist goes contrary to that notion.

Chase:
1
a : to follow rapidly : pursue
b : hunt

That should put your silly argument to rest. Or do you want to continue your silly argument that Zimmerman was not following, chasing, pursuing or hunting Martin?

Sure, he was hunting him down.

You know damn well what I'm saying, I give you at least that much credit. If you saw someone suspicious snooping around your house (not saying Martin was snooping) and you went outside and tried to see them, I doubt you would self describe your situation as a chase.


Silly Jesus: 2. Perjury is a legal term. It's a crime. Why should another word be used? A Harvard Law Professor, among others, has assessed pertinent facts and deemed her actions to meet the criminal definition of perjury.

Has she been charge with perjury? Has she been convicted of perjury? Can you understand that without qualifying your assertion with a "may have" you are just simply spouting unproven accusations. "Zimmerman committed murder". He has not been convicted of it, but several lawyers say his actions rise to the level of second degree murder. See how that works?

The murder charge is up in the air. On the other hand, it's a fact that her affidavit did not include facts known to her at the time of submission which spoke to Zimmerman's innocence. Fact (perjury) vs. Conjecture (murder), how does it work?

Was Nifong (Duke Lacrosse prosecutor) charged during the trial? Nope. He was disbarred and sentenced after the mess was concluded. See how that works?


Silly Jesus: 3. Haven't seen that text. How ya gonna spin the two impoverished black children that he and his wife tutored for free? Sort of an odd hobby for a racist, don't ya think?

So if he did in fact send text referring to n-words, you're going with "some of his best friends are black" spin? Exactly as expected.

No. But, it's very difficult to paint someone as a racist because they are documented as saying the n-word once (assuming this is true, for the sake of argument).

Evidence that Zimmerman is racist.
1. Used the n-word in a text.

Evidence that Zimmerman is not a racist.
1. Black family members.
2. Tutored troubled black youth for free in his spare time with his wife in his own home.
3. Publicly reached out to the black community and fought alongside them to get justice for a homeless black man who was beaten by the son of a local police officer. He even went so far as to go to city council meetings and speak against the department due to their treatment of the black community.

If you want to call that the "but I have a black friend" defense, then so be it, but you are being intellectually dishonest. Or, perhaps you do always choose the side with the least amount of valid evidence supporting it...


I kind of, not really, feel sorry for you and the other members of the Zimmerman Admiration Club. If the charges were dropped tomorrow it would not change the fact that Zimmerman is reprehensible guy. Too bad you spent all that time and effort building that pedestal.

It's not a Zimmerman Admiration Club, it's a Facts Of The Case and How They Relate To Florida Law Club. Do I think he's a great guy? No. He's had his troubles. Do I think he is a reprehensible person? No. I haven't been given reason to think such.

I'm not attempting to build a pedestal for anyone. Maybe for the law, and the right to defend oneself from potentially deadly force. If you are opposed to such actions, feel free to lay prone on your back with your hands underneath you if you are ever in the situation that Zimmerman and Martin were in that last 30 seconds. That's your right. I, on the other hand, would / will fight for my life and would like for the law to have my back in that endeavor.

 
2012-06-05 11:26:53 PM  

NightOwl2255: Silly Jesus: If you are NOT actively posing an immediate threat to someone's life (observing them at a distance) and they fight back with deadly force, you DO have the ability to use SYG.

Must be some long arms.


Martin closed the distance, whether it was due to him coming out of his position of cover or circling back around, is unclear.

Martin could not have run around the corner of the building, disappeared, and ended up in that same spot more than two minutes later in any other way.

So, yes, the actions of Zimmerman were those of observation from a distance until that distance was closed by the actions of Martin.
 
2012-06-05 11:39:22 PM  

UCFRoadWarrior: Another "Lynch Zimmerman" thread with a Bed-Wetting Liberal media source that cannot even get the facts of Stand Your Ground law accurate

I think even the most racist Black KKK Racist and the most idiot White Guilt Liberal knows that convicting George Zimmerman of anything is slim and none...and that is even if Al Sharpton gets to pick the jury and Dan Savage butt-rapes the judge. This recent nonsense over the bail money is pathetic...and is only pandering to the same Black KKK Racist Hate Groups and their White Guilt Liberal supporters who want GZ in jail

Too bad these same groups do not want to address the massive violent crime rate among black males in this nation. That would do more to prevent SYG tragedies that trying to take away the civil right of all to defend themselves


Good god, dude, not everything has to do with liberals. Stop snorting the crazy crack and quit imagining liberals are out to get you, they don't gave a shiat about someone as pathetic as you are.

/stubs his toe on the coffee table
//"LIBS LIBS LIBS LIBS LIBS LIBS!!"
 
2012-06-06 12:04:49 AM  

Silly Jesus: You know damn well what I'm saying


You sure do like to split hairs...

Silly Jesus: Fact (perjury) vs. Conjecture (murder)


Until you don't.

Of course that's par for the course for members of the ZAC,

Silly Jesus: Evidence that Zimmerman is racist.
1. Used the n-word in a text.



First, let's note, you're the one using the word racist.
Second, let's add to your list, as members of the ZAC like to leave out details when they don't suit their argument.
2: He talked to his neighbors and told them to be on the look out for black youths.
3: Almost every time he called to report a suspicions person, turns out that suspicions person was black.
4: He followed from a distance, and ended up killing, an unarmed black youth.
5: May have (notice the usage) a racist slur during the call to the police.

And let me clue you in on something you seem completely unable to grasp, Zimmerman may have targeted Martin for no other reason then Martin was black as he seemed to think that every young black male was suspicions. And he could have done that without being racist. Maybe he has a pathological fear of young black males. That doesn't change the fact (note the usage) that Martin was targeted, reported to the police and followed for no other reason than being black.

Silly Jesus: Do I think he is a reprehensible person? No. I haven't been given reason to think such.


Of course you have, you just have chosen to ignore it. According to the witness, Zimmerman singled him out because he was Middle Eastern, calling him a "farking moron" and mocking him with the voice of "Achmed the terrorist." He said Zimmerman would also tell stories and make jokes about "bombing" and other "Middle Eastern stuff." On the other hand, maybe he's your kind of guy.
 
2012-06-06 01:23:40 AM  

NightOwl2255: Silly Jesus: You know damn well what I'm saying

You sure do like to split hairs...

Eh, it's all about painting a picture. Terms are used for a reason. "Stalking" was thrown around a lot. There are much less inflammatory terms that would adequately describe the events. "Followed" would have sufficed. There's a reason that certain words were chosen...they carry extra negative weight. Same as the initial picture that was shown. Sure, it was Martin, and maybe it's splitting hairs to point out that it was a picture of him as a young child, but that particular picture was put out there with a purpose, same as some of the terms that have been chosen.


Silly Jesus: Fact (perjury) vs. Conjecture (murder)

Until you don't.

Of course that's par for the course for members of the ZAC,

Perhaps part of this response got cut off? I don't follow...

Silly Jesus: Evidence that Zimmerman is racist.
1. Used the n-word in a text.


First, let's note, you're the one using the word racist. It's implied from your side.
Second, let's add to your list, as members of the ZAC like to leave out details when they don't suit their argument.
2: He talked to his neighbors and told them to be on the look out for black youths. Yes, that's quite insensitive, how dare he provide an accurate description of all of those that had committed crimes in the neighborhood in the recent months.
3: Almost every time he called to report a suspicions person, turns out that suspicions person was black. Which means what? I lived in a gentrifying neighborhood during college. 100% of the solved and/or witnessed burglaries over the course of a year and a half were committed by black juveniles. The neighborhood was a bunch of white college kids in rental houses that weren't far from the projects. I'd venture to guess that almost all of the suspicious activity observed in that neighborhood involved a certain group of folks. Does that mean that all the white college kids were racist?
4: He followed from a distance, and ended up killing, an unarmed black youth. He followed from a distance, was confronted and beaten by (two black eyes, fractured nose, head wounds) an unarmed black youth. Using "unarmed" over and over is asinine. There are plenty of unarmed people who pose a threat to others and you know that.
5: May have (notice the usage) a racist slur during the call to the police. Was discounted even by the prosecution.

And let me clue you in on something you seem completely unable to grasp, Zimmerman may have targeted Martin for no other reason then Martin was black as he seemed to think that every young black male was suspicions. And he could have done that without being racist. Maybe he has a pathological fear of young black males. That doesn't change the fact (note the usage) that Martin was targeted, reported to the police and followed for no other reason than being black.

If I remember correctly, he did not know his race when he was initially following him (as per the 911 call). You have established now though that it is a fact that the sole factor in Zimmerman's mind when he decided to keep an eye on Martin was that he was black? Did you speak with Zimmerman to establish this "fact?"

Also, are you completely unable to grasp that sometimes, due to demographics and crime patterns (see my example above of my college neighborhood) race *ghasp* might just be a valid component of establishing in your mind whether someone is suspicious or not? My neighborhood was small and composed entirely of white college kids. If a middle age black guy was walking around between the houses in the middle of the night I would rightfully be a little more suspicious (based on age AND race) than if it were a white college age kid. Especially in a neighborhood where the criminal element (as far as property crimes were concerned) was composed entirely of a certain group. Could the middle age black guy just be legitimately lost? Sure. Could the college age white guy be a burglar? Of course. Is it crazy to think that the more likely scenario (based on past events and statistics) is reversed? I certainly don't think so.


Silly Jesus: Do I think he is a reprehensible person? No. I haven't been given reason to think such.

Of course you have, you just have chosen to ignore it. According to the witness, Zimmerman singled him out because he was Middle Eastern, calling him a "farking moron" and mocking him with the voice of "Achmed the terrorist." He said Zimmerman would also tell stories and make jokes about "bombing" and other "Middle Eastern stuff." On the other hand, maybe he's your kind of guy.

I had not seen that article or heard that detail before. It doesn't make him a racist murderer though. At worst it makes him a bit of an a-hole. Hell, he was telling jokes based on a guy's damn stand-up routine. Is that comedian a racist murderer too? Also, this guy specifically said that he never felt threatened by Zimmerman.

Also, something that I do enjoy seeing... The credibility of "witnesses" is not questioned when it is "helpful" to your side of things. If someone came out in an interview and said that Martin spoke poorly of Peruvians, you and others would be tearing it to shreds. You know you would. Things that his Facebook and Twitter friends said that could tarnish Martin's character have been repeatedly discounted and minimized. It works both ways...

 
2012-06-06 12:00:19 PM  

Silly Jesus: Damnit Subby...

Your "article" is merely a long winded link to a several day old article, which is a rehashing of a month old article from the same "newspaper."


And yet still worth the greenlight.

/Amazingly enough, useful information does not come with expiration dates.
 
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