And the CEO cried about the health care reform bill, saying the company can't afford it.

Marcus Aurelius: American wages have been dropping for some 25 years when adjusted for inflation. An average worker in the 1970's had more purchasing power than the average American worker does now in 2012

Which leads to lower demand, which leads to more outsourcing, which leads to lower wages, which leads to lower demand, which leads to more outsourcing, which leads to lower wages....

Why does lower demand result in more outsourcing?

If he could get rid of the union altogether, he could probably have doubled his raise. Why do you hate America subby?

Rev.K: [moviemancave.files.wordpress.com image 500x500]

/possibly relevant
//totally awesome

Not relevant by location. I grew up in the Low Desert where Kyuss/QotSA spawned from. Wrong Sky Valley. Still relevant for being, as you said, totally awesome!

Fun & true fact:

The machinists at the Joliet plant are on strike. CAT has brought in a contingency workforce of 700+ retirees, engineers from other plants, brand new workers and strikebreakers.

Their production rate is HIGHER than it was with the regular unionized workforce.

Why should they get raises?

They know where he works - drag him out onto the street, shoot him and go back to work.

Wendy's Chili: Marcus Aurelius: American wages have been dropping for some 25 years when adjusted for inflation. An average worker in the 1970's had more purchasing power than the average American worker does now in 2012

Which leads to lower demand, which leads to more outsourcing, which leads to lower wages, which leads to lower demand, which leads to more outsourcing, which leads to lower wages....

When do we get to the pitchforks?

When you actually start starving. Till then, it will be forum biatching, strongly worded emails, and contemplation of the next iPad for the vast majority of the US.

joness0154: Why should they get raises?

Why shouldn't the scabs in turn organize/unionize and demand more given their higher level of productivity?

Cinaed: joness0154: Why should they get raises?

Why shouldn't the scabs in turn organize/unionize and demand more given their higher level of productivity?

The strikebreakers are the ones who probably realize that the union is holding them back, not moving them forward. That's why, you know....they're the ones working right now.

Shareholders own the company, the board governs it and serves at the pleasure of the shareholders. The CEO's job is to make sure that the shareholders receive a return on their investment. The employees are there to do their freaking jobs or GTFO.

mycatisposter: Shareholders own the company, the board governs it and serves at the pleasure of the shareholders. The CEO's job is to make sure that the shareholders receive a return on their investment. The employees are there to do their freaking jobs or GTFO.

One of the biggest flaws of modern capitalism.

WhiskeyBender: Yes, unions raise CEOs pay. Thats how it works.

I love how people like you have just completely given up any pretense of honest discourse. Your comment has absolutely nothing to do with anything and was posted for no other reason than to try and throw any legitimate discussion off the tracks. Do you get paid to do that, or are you just an incredibly dishonest person as a matter of course and don't really need to be compensated for being an enormous liar?

The Stealth Hippopotamus: They were over paid to begin with. While the CEO was underpaid. 20 million base is low for such a large company.

Since the general gripe about executive pay is that they're almost all paid way too much, I don't see what point you think you're making. There's no retort to be made in setting up a benchmark against the group if my initial complaint is that the group you're using for comparison is compensated far too richly.

joness0154: The strikebreakers are the ones who probably realize that the union

So they form their own. Who said they have to be part of the old union? Frankly, they seem like dumbshiats for taking less money for doing more, and you are ready to encourage such idiocy.

kab: When you actually start starving. Till then, it will be forum biatching, strongly worded emails, and contemplation of the next iPad for the vast majority of the US.

This is kinda why I'm considering voting republican this year.

I bet Cat could save a fortune if they outsourced upper management to workers in Bangladesh.

Rev.K: [moviemancave.files.wordpress.com image 500x500]

/possibly relevant
//totally awesome

joness0154: The strikebreakers are the ones who probably realize that the union is holding them back...

You're not too sharp on how collective bargaining works, eh?

CheatCommando: joness0154: The strikebreakers are the ones who probably realize that the union

So they form their own. Who said they have to be part of the old union? Frankly, they seem like dumbshiats for taking less money for doing more, and you are ready to encourage such idiocy.

Why the need for a union in the first place?

Cinaed: joness0154: The strikebreakers are the ones who probably realize that the union is holding them back...

You're not too sharp on how collective bargaining works, eh?

I completely understand how collective bargaining works. Unfortunately Illinois is not a right-to-work state. You join the union whether you want to or not. The example I gave was based in Illinois.

But I see no one wants to touch on why the workers deserve raises when production rates are up with a contingency workforce full of retirees and new employees....

Where's when you need them?

joness0154: CheatCommando: joness0154: The strikebreakers are the ones who probably realize that the union

So they form their own. Who said they have to be part of the old union? Frankly, they seem like dumbshiats for taking less money for doing more, and you are ready to encourage such idiocy.

Why the need for a union in the first place?

Cinaed: joness0154: The strikebreakers are the ones who probably realize that the union is holding them back...

You're not too sharp on how collective bargaining works, eh?

I completely understand how collective bargaining works. Unfortunately Illinois is not a right-to-work state. You join the union whether you want to or not. The example I gave was based in Illinois.

But I see no one wants to touch on why the workers deserve raises when production rates are up with a contingency workforce full of retirees and new employees....

You make a good point. It's clear that management has been failing the shareholders badly by not getting enough productivity out of the work force. The CEO should be taking a 60% paycut for his failure to maximize value for the shareholders.

Magorn: sweetmelissa31: PacManDreaming: I always thought it was funny when people were whining about how unions are the cause of high prices/jobs going overseas, but it was never the fault of CEOs or other executive officers raking in exorbitant salaries and bonuses.

It's a great tactic- get common people angry at and jealous of each other while the rich get all the rewards.

A wise farker once said that the current tactic of corporations instilling hatred of unions in working-class people is analogous to the CEO, a union worker, and a non-union worker sitting down at a table with a dozen donuts. The Ceo immediately grabs 11 of the donuts and then says to the Non-union worker "look out, that greedy union bastard over there wants to steal YOUR donut"

Except that on the flip side is the union guy threatening the non-union worker if they go anywhere near that donuts...or even think about talking with management. It doesn't matter how hungry you are or how long it's been since your last meal...You listen to your union rep.

Then after you starve to death, the union will depict you as a perfect example of how evil management is..illustrating the evils of management...and how evil they are....and how that this poor non-worker was left to starve to death by evil management....that is evil. That's what evil management does...it evilly kills its workers....with evil....

Now....If this poor sap had been in the union we could of protected him from this terrible injustice caused by evil management.....oh, BTW you need to pay $1,000 initiation fee and (ah, let's say) $50 a month. Relax, we've taken the liberty of requiring to join the union before stepping on the floor and taking the money directly from your paycheck.

Cinaed: joness0154: Why should they get raises?

Why shouldn't the scabs in turn organize/unionize and demand more given their higher level of productivity?

Because they believe they can get a better deal by negotiating with the company directly instead of tying the dead weight of the lower producing workers around their ankles.

mycatisposter: Shareholders own the company, the board governs it and serves at the pleasure of the shareholders. The CEO's job is to make sure that the shareholders receive a return on their investment. The employees are there to do their freaking jobs or GTFO.


Then the CEO and corporate management use the corporate coffers to fund proxy votes presenting shareholders with a limited range of options on who to vote for when a vacancy opens up on the board (all options naturally favoring corporate management). This allows corporate management to stack the board with parties favorable to their interest (most especially the compensation committee). It also allows them to build majorities in the actual voting process so their initiatives pass by wide margins. So effectively corporate officers use corporate funds (not their own money) to sponsor initiatives at the shareholder meetings that favor the interests of corporate management whilst shareholders would have to spend their own funds from their own pockets (entirely w/o reimbursement) to do likewise. This is compounded by the fact that one of the prime avenues of shareholder action, shareholder lawsuits, has been sharply curtailed by Republicans through the 1995 Private Securities Litigation Reform Act.

So in effect the CEO acts to serve his own interests and works actively, in conjunction with a favorable regulatory environment as a result of Republican legislative efforts, to prevent shareholder interference.

mycatisposter: Shareholders own the company


False

joness0154: not moving them forward.


With low pay, little benefits, and no job future?

Saiga410: Cinaed: joness0154: Why should they get raises?

Why shouldn't the scabs in turn organize/unionize and demand more given their higher level of productivity?

Because they believe they can get a better deal by negotiating with the company directly instead of tying the dead weight of the lower producing workers around their ankles.

Yeah, I'm sure that Cat is eager to offer the replacement workers higher pay and better benefits. I'll even bet that the CEO is willing to see his pay cut to make that happen.

And we can certainly trust management's claims about the productivity increase. The honesty and integrity of American corporate management is beyond question, especially in disputes like this.

I wonder if this is going to be the 94-95 strikes all over again. The union is really on the short end on this. The 94-95 strikes showed that the company can work with contingency workers and in this case the low number of jobs being moved around (vs then) is not going to affect current operations period.