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(Boston Globe)   So Mitt, let's see how that solar company that received $1.5 million in state loans when you were governor of Massachusetts is doing. Oh darn   (bostonglobe.com) divider line 76
    More: Sad, President Obama, Massachusetts, Waldorf-Astoria  
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1865 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jun 2012 at 10:29 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-05 09:09:46 AM  
So is there anything that the GOP has accused Obama of that Romney hasn't done, or actually done?
 
2012-06-05 09:18:14 AM  

Aarontology: So is there anything that the GOP has accused Obama of that Romney hasn't done, or actually done?


Let's see. Obama hasn't run any economies into the ground, but Romney has destroyed a number of local economies by robbing and turning out businesses. Actually, I can't think of a goddamned thing.
 
2012-06-05 09:22:14 AM  

kingoomieiii: Aarontology: So is there anything that the GOP has accused Obama of that Romney hasn't done, or actually done?

Let's see. Obama hasn't run any economies into the ground, but Romney has destroyed a number of local economies by robbing and turning out businesses. Actually, I can't think of a goddamned thing.


If Obama and the Democrats don't hammer Romney's flip flopping on damn near every single issue when the campaign really ramps up, then they deserve to lose. Because it's almost to the point or parody now.
 
2012-06-05 09:27:46 AM  

Aarontology: So is there anything that the GOP has accused Obama of that Romney hasn't done, or actually done?


cdn.dickblick.com
 
2012-06-05 09:34:48 AM  
*hypocrisy subroutine installed*
 
2012-06-05 09:38:22 AM  
I still don't understand why we should be happy, for political reasons, that an American company employing Americans failed. These are American jobs going away and in all likelihood are not coming back as our competitors, such as China, have no problem helping businesses in their countries. And this whole argument that the government shouldn't pick and choose winners and losers is also BS -- the government does that already, and has been for decades, through tax breaks to oil companies, for example, or choosing to fund highways over rails (choose the trucking industry over the railroads).

Romney did what he thought was right for his state just as Obama did what he thought was right for the country. That they failed probably says more about the solar industry and the inability of American companies to compete with the cheaper panels coming from China. Lets hear about their successes instead.
 
2012-06-05 10:34:15 AM  

damageddude: I still don't understand why we should be happy, for political reasons, that an American company employing Americans failed.


These people cheered when Chicago lost its bid for the Olympics. There is nobody that hates this country more than a conservative.
 
2012-06-05 10:34:33 AM  

Aarontology: So is there anything that the GOP has accused Obama of that Romney hasn't done, or actually done?


PWB.
 
2012-06-05 10:35:12 AM  

damageddude: I still don't understand why we should be happy, for political reasons, that an American company employing Americans failed. These are American jobs going away and in all likelihood are not coming back as our competitors, such as China, have no problem helping businesses in their countries. And this whole argument that the government shouldn't pick and choose winners and losers is also BS -- the government does that already, and has been for decades, through tax breaks to oil companies, for example, or choosing to fund highways over rails (choose the trucking industry over the railroads).

Romney did what he thought was right for his state just as Obama did what he thought was right for the country. That they failed probably says more about the solar industry and the inability of American companies to compete with the cheaper panels coming from China. Lets hear about their successes instead.


Thread over.
 
2012-06-05 10:35:35 AM  

damageddude: I still don't understand why we should be happy, for political reasons, that an American company employing Americans failed.


pointing out hilariously blatant hypocrisy is totally the same as being happy
 
2012-06-05 10:36:22 AM  

damageddude: I still don't understand why we should be happy, for political reasons, that an American company employing Americans failed. These are American jobs going away and in all likelihood are not coming back as our competitors, such as China, have no problem helping businesses in their countries. And this whole argument that the government shouldn't pick and choose winners and losers is also BS -- the government does that already, and has been for decades, through tax breaks to oil companies, for example, or choosing to fund highways over rails (choose the trucking industry over the railroads).

Romney did what he thought was right for his state just as Obama did what he thought was right for the country. That they failed probably says more about the solar industry and the inability of American companies to compete with the cheaper panels coming from China. Lets hear about their successes instead.


I don't think anyone is happy about it. But when you have one candidate hammering his opponent for doing something "bad," but then it turns out that candidate did the exact same thing with the same results, I'd call that hypocrisy. This is fair game in the campaign.

I know politicians tend to be hypocrites and liars, but I can't remember one on such a large stage that has been so blatant and transparent as a hypocrite and pandering liar as Mitt Romney.
 
2012-06-05 10:36:43 AM  
A couple of small details they missed:

The loan they got was BEFORE Romney took office.

It came from a part of state government that the Governor doesn't have direct control over.

He blocked additional loans from other sources to that particular company when he was in office.

Then, of course, it took the company the best part of a decade to fall apart - well after he left office.

This is very different from the Solyndra debacle, too - you see, Solyndra's loan was blocked by the Bush administration because the company was already in trouble, and had a crappy business plan. So, after taking office, Obama's folks reinstated the completely idiotic Solyndra loans to a major Democrat donor).
 
2012-06-05 10:38:23 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

My holodeck simulations have indicated that human Republican voters respond well to "strident" or "forceful" statements and do not tend to care strongly about the factual content of said statements. Therefore, it is unlikely that this would strongly affect the usefulness of the Solyndra issue as a campaigning point.
 
2012-06-05 10:42:34 AM  

cirby: The loan they got was BEFORE Romney took office.


Can you prove that?
 
2012-06-05 10:42:41 AM  
Still beats the ONE BILLION Obama "invested" into Solynda...
 
2012-06-05 10:43:09 AM  

cirby: A couple of small details they missed:

The loan they got was BEFORE Romney took office.

It came from a part of state government that the Governor doesn't have direct control over.

He blocked additional loans from other sources to that particular company when he was in office.

Then, of course, it took the company the best part of a decade to fall apart - well after he left office.

This is very different from the Solyndra debacle, too - you see, Solyndra's loan was blocked by the Bush administration because the company was already in trouble, and had a crappy business plan. So, after taking office, Obama's folks reinstated the completely idiotic Solyndra loans to a major Democrat donor).


Really?

From the article:

"A Lowell-based solar technology company that received $1.5 million in state loans when Mitt Romney was governor has filed for bankruptcy, opening the presumptive Republican presidential nominee to charges of hypocrisy."

And:

"In January 2003, shortly after taking office in Massachusetts, Romney held press conference - at Konarka, where he announced a plan to loan $24 million from the state's renewable energy trust fund to startups with the potential to create jobs."

I'm going to assume, without citation, that the rest of your post is false.
 
2012-06-05 10:44:24 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: cirby: The loan they got was BEFORE Romney took office.

Can you prove that?


Don't worry, you can't:

FTFA:

In January 2003, shortly after taking office in Massachusetts, Romney held press conference - at Konarka, where he announced a plan to loan $24 million from the state's renewable energy trust fund to startups with the potential to create jobs
 
2012-06-05 10:44:40 AM  
2 points from this story:

1. Romney is a terrible candidate for the GOP. He flip flopped to the left to become the governor of a liberal state, where he enacted the same "leftist" policies he's trying to criticize, now that he's flip flopping back to the right. Better luck in 2016.

2. Obama's campaign is incredibly disciplined. As soon as Solyndra went south, they could have countered with a carpet bomb of talk show appearances talking about the existence of a green jobs initiative in Massachusetts under Romney, but instead, they sat on it and waited for the right moment. They don't care to take short term hits to score more points down the line.
 
2012-06-05 10:45:22 AM  
Were the owners of the solar company big contributors to Mitt's election?
 
2012-06-05 10:45:41 AM  

TIKIMAN87: Still beats the ONE BILLION Obama "invested" into Solynda...


Or $585 million. You know. The real number, that's actually in TFA. That was proposed by Bush.
 
2012-06-05 10:45:41 AM  

Aarontology: So is there anything that the GOP has accused Obama of that Romney hasn't done, or actually done?


....Michelle?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-06-05 10:45:57 AM  

cirby: A couple of small details they missed:

The loan they got was BEFORE Romney took office.

It came from a part of state government that the Governor doesn't have direct control over.

He blocked additional loans from other sources to that particular company when he was in office.

Then, of course, it took the company the best part of a decade to fall apart - well after he left office.

This is very different from the Solyndra debacle, too - you see, Solyndra's loan was blocked by the Bush administration because the company was already in trouble, and had a crappy business plan. So, after taking office, Obama's folks reinstated the completely idiotic Solyndra loans to a major Democrat donor).


And how are things in the Romney campaign?
 
2012-06-05 10:46:15 AM  

cirby: This is very different from the Solyndra debacle, too - you see, Solyndra's loan was blocked by the Bush administration because the company was already in trouble, and had a crappy business plan. So, after taking office, Obama's folks reinstated the completely idiotic Solyndra loans to a major Democrat donor).


:AHEM:

December 2006: Solyndra Applies for a Loan Guarantee under the 1703 program.

Late 2007: Loan guarantee program is funded. Solyndra was one of 16 clean-tech companies deemed ready to move forward in the due diligence process. The Bush Administration DOE moves forward to develop a conditional commitment.

October 2008: Then Solyndra CEO Chris Gronet touted reasons for building in Silicon Valley and noted that the "company's second factory also will be built in Fremont, since a Department of Energy loan guarantee mandates a U.S. location."

November 2008: Silicon prices remain very high on the spot market, making non-silicon based thin film technologies like Solyndra's very attractive to investors. Solyndra also benefits from having very low installation costs. The company raises $144 million from ten different venture investors, including the Walton-family run Madrone Capital Partners. This brings total private investment to more than $450 million to date.

January 2009: In an effort to show it has done something to support renewable energy, the Bush Administration tries to take Solyndra before a DOE credit review committee before President Obama is inaugurated. The committee, consisting of career civil servants with financial expertise, remands the loan back to DOE "without prejudice" because it wasn't ready for conditional commitment.

March 2009: The same credit committee approves the strengthened loan application. The deal passes on to DOE's credit review board. Career staff (not political appointees) within the DOE issue a conditional commitment setting out terms for a guarantee.
 
2012-06-05 10:47:09 AM  
Oh, and here it is:

The Solyndra loan was started under the watch of and advanced by the Bush administration (it's a Politifact link so they've done all the debunking):

Link
 
2012-06-05 10:47:58 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: cirby: The loan they got was BEFORE Romney took office.

Can you prove that?


Also, Bush tried to get Solyndra the loan but the DoE denied it. Obama added more safeguards and the DoE ok'd it.

/Republicans would have given the loan without safeguards.
 
2012-06-05 10:50:50 AM  
Ctrl-F "57 states", "teleprompter". Leaving dissatisfied.
 
2012-06-05 10:56:12 AM  

TIKIMAN87: Still beats the ONE BILLION Obama "invested" into Solynda...


I thought it was ELEVENTY BRAZILLIAN...
 
2012-06-05 10:57:44 AM  
Romney: The Job Destroyer.
 
2012-06-05 10:58:04 AM  
i91.photobucket.com

Breitbart, God of Derp, demands that Obama stop destroying America, and raping white women.
 
2012-06-05 10:59:47 AM  

cirby: Solyndra loans to a major Democrat donor


Bringing that bit up implies a cause-effect relationship that is entirely reversed and suggests a partisan willingness to twist the truth on your part. An alternate energy company that supports the democratic party over big-oil republicans isn't exactly surprising nor nefarious. *Of course* groups that are supported in the party platforms are a priori supportive of that party.
 
2012-06-05 11:00:35 AM  
Damn Obama for spending $47 billion to secretly bribe this incredibly successful solar panel company into shutting down, but of course that didn't work so what Obama really did was have the UN forge documents on many employees of the company showing them to be secret Socialists, blackmailing the company president to shut down the company to protect the reputation of the employees he so dearly loves.
 
2012-06-05 11:02:52 AM  
Nice job of smacking down the lying wingnut shills ITT, ladies and gentlemen! Carry on.
 
2012-06-05 11:07:08 AM  
Dog Welder:
"A Lowell-based solar technology company that received $1.5 million in state loans when Mitt Romney was governor has filed for bankruptcy, opening the presumptive Republican presidential nominee to charges of hypocrisy."

It's a nicely-worded fakeout.

They decided to count "when Mitt Romney was governor" from the date he won the election, not when he took office. The decision to give them the money was pre-Romney - but the check didn't arrive until after he took office. And, as I mentioned above, it was through a part of the state government that the governor's office has no direct control over.

Even if he'd come in and made a point of stopping the loan, he couldn't have done anything about it.
 
2012-06-05 11:09:07 AM  
Five more months.

i46.tinypic.com

*sigh*
 
2012-06-05 11:09:52 AM  
I guess the exchange rate is 1.5 million (R) dollars to 500 million (D) dollars for outrage.
 
2012-06-05 11:11:28 AM  

cirby: Even if he'd come in and made a point of stopping the loan, he couldn't have done anything about it.


Likewise, he was legally obligated to stage a press conference and photo-op.
 
2012-06-05 11:13:53 AM  

cirby: Dog Welder:
"A Lowell-based solar technology company that received $1.5 million in state loans when Mitt Romney was governor has filed for bankruptcy, opening the presumptive Republican presidential nominee to charges of hypocrisy."

It's a nicely-worded fakeout.

They decided to count "when Mitt Romney was governor" from the date he won the election, not when he took office. The decision to give them the money was pre-Romney - but the check didn't arrive until after he took office. And, as I mentioned above, it was through a part of the state government that the governor's office has no direct control over.

Even if he'd come in and made a point of stopping the loan, he couldn't have done anything about it.


So, the previous administration set up the deal, but it was actually executed under Romney, which is different from Solyndra in that... um, uh... *mumble* socialism *mumble*
 
2012-06-05 11:15:54 AM  

cirby: he couldn't have done anything about it.


I suppose that means the "Obama Tax Hike" that the cons are talking up will be immediately relabeled "the Bush Tax Hike", since he was the one who originally set the date for the cuts to expire, no Obama.

...No? Oh, well.

I guess what happens under your tenure is attributed to you after all. Nice try though.
 
2012-06-05 11:16:41 AM  

alizeran: Five more months.

[i46.tinypic.com image 499x420]

*sigh*


so vote republican?
 
2012-06-05 11:18:20 AM  

cirby: A couple of small details they missed:

The loan they got was BEFORE Romney took office.

It came from a part of state government that the Governor doesn't have direct control over.

He blocked additional loans from other sources to that particular company when he was in office.

Then, of course, it took the company the best part of a decade to fall apart - well after he left office.

This is very different from the Solyndra debacle, too - you see, Solyndra's loan was blocked by the Bush administration because the company was already in trouble, and had a crappy business plan. So, after taking office, Obama's folks reinstated the completely idiotic Solyndra loans to a major Democrat donor).


- We have no idea if the loan was paid back.
- 1.5M is less than 500M.
- We don't know if the loan was structured as badly as the Solyndra loan (e.g. subordinate to everything else)
- This was a startup vs. Solyndra which was already failing
 
2012-06-05 11:24:56 AM  

cirby: Dog Welder:
"A Lowell-based solar technology company that received $1.5 million in state loans when Mitt Romney was governor has filed for bankruptcy, opening the presumptive Republican presidential nominee to charges of hypocrisy."

It's a nicely-worded fakeout.

They decided to count "when Mitt Romney was governor" from the date he won the election, not when he took office. The decision to give them the money was pre-Romney - but the check didn't arrive until after he took office. And, as I mentioned above, it was through a part of the state government that the governor's office has no direct control over.

Even if he'd come in and made a point of stopping the loan, he couldn't have done anything about it.


Sort of like how Bush tried to ram through the Solyndra loan but couldn't and Obama finished the job?

If you're blaming Obama for one thing, Romney is to blame for the other IDENTICAL scenario.

And never mind the press conference where Romney promised to dole out $24+ million in loans to green energy companies.

Keep spinning. You'll come full circle eventually.
 
2012-06-05 11:30:53 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: - We have no idea if the loan was paid back.


Gee, don't you think that we'd have heard that from the Romney campaign by now if it was?

Also, the point is that Romney hammered Obama on the decision to loan the money, a decision that Romney himself made as well.
 
2012-06-05 11:31:22 AM  
They shook the Etch-a-Sketch after it fell through, so it's okay now.
 
2012-06-05 11:42:20 AM  

FlashHarry: alizeran: Five more months.

[i46.tinypic.com image 499x420]

*sigh*

so vote republican?


Hell no, those bastards are sociopaths. Seriously. The left slid hard to right and left me a long time ago with my nutty notion that the golden rule is actually pretty functional in its simplicity.

But even in the middle, they are a far better option than the orange crying dude, the robot, the turtle, the dude with the asymmetrical eye, the billionaire chuckle-bucket brothers, the bloviating pudding wrangler, the leather witch of desert, the ginormous man baby, butticus frothicus, gay pride bush baby, the pizza dude or any of the other zombie rodeo clowns that seem to be assembling at some sort abstract legion of doom looking compound dedicated to super christy mean spirited dominionism and secret butt sex tastefully accented with shame and racism. And dont get me started on their minions...

I mean, just so Im clear.
 
2012-06-05 11:54:14 AM  

Dog Welder: cirby: Dog Welder:
"A Lowell-based solar technology company that received $1.5 million in state loans when Mitt Romney was governor has filed for bankruptcy, opening the presumptive Republican presidential nominee to charges of hypocrisy."

It's a nicely-worded fakeout.

They decided to count "when Mitt Romney was governor" from the date he won the election, not when he took office. The decision to give them the money was pre-Romney - but the check didn't arrive until after he took office. And, as I mentioned above, it was through a part of the state government that the governor's office has no direct control over.

Even if he'd come in and made a point of stopping the loan, he couldn't have done anything about it.

Sort of like how Bush tried to ram through the Solyndra loan but couldn't and Obama finished the job?

If you're blaming Obama for one thing, Romney is to blame for the other IDENTICAL scenario.

And never mind the press conference where Romney promised to dole out $24+ million in loans to green energy companies.

Keep spinning. You'll come full circle eventually.


This. If you're going to play the blame game, be prepared to get the same treatment.
 
2012-06-05 12:18:51 PM  
Look, people, the politics of failure have failed, we must make them work again!

....and always twirling, twirling, twirling toward freedom!
 
2012-06-05 12:21:13 PM  
The GOP strategy is to make most of Americans "believe" there is a difference.

Illusion provokes delusion.

/let the buyer beware
 
2012-06-05 12:21:42 PM  
So let me get this straight, Obama loans solar start-ups BILLIONS of dollars and many fail within 1-3 years and that is the same as Romney loaning a solar company $1.5 million that failed NINE YEARS LATER?? How the fark are these the same? Jesus, stretch much?

Note to self, The Dale Ernhart collectors plates from the Franklin Mint are a better and safer investment than solar...
 
2012-06-05 12:22:41 PM  

jpo2269: So let me get this straight, Obama loans solar start-ups BILLIONS of dollars and many fail within 1-3 years and that is the same as Romney loaning a solar company $1.5 million that failed NINE YEARS LATER?? How the fark are these the same? Jesus, stretch much?

Note to self, The Dale Ernhart collectors plates from the Franklin Mint are a better and safer investment than solar...


Sure, but they break into a million pieces if they get even close to a wall.
 
2012-06-05 12:23:10 PM  
So, Romney loaned less that 1/250th of the money to a green energy company that failed almost a decade after the loan was given.

Yeah, that's just like giving a $550 million loan guarantee to a company that was already teetering on the edge and filed for bankruptcy shortly afterwards.

Broiled Buddha on a biscuit, how farking stupid does the Democratic Party think people are to fall for somethnig that transparently stupid?

/ Stupid enough that 45%+ would vote for a potted plant with a D by its name, apparently
 
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