domenad: There were over 100k names on the rolls of dead and ineligible people.

Subby is a moron who shouldn't be allowed to vote. http://www.theledger.com/article/20120518/POLITICS/120519309

No kidding. But how many were added after they were dead? I doubt many, if any. Why would a dead person magically drop off the list? System is a joke. There should be no need to register if voting is a right. No wonder turnout is so low.

You Democrat Pro-fraudsters are starting to sound like Truthers and Birthers.

Fluorescent Testicle: this whole molehill-to-mountain of "Voter ID fraud" is a half-assed dog whistle designed to get the racists fired up before the election, and that it's working

What exactly is the difference between a "dog whistle" and a "conspiracy theory"?

domenad: When a person who has died remains on the voters roll, it is relatively simple to secure an absentee ballot and vote in their name. This can, does, and has happened. That's why this purge is being conducted - reducing the opportunity for fraud is as important as reducing, prosecuting, and eliminating actual fraud. I can explain it to simpletons like you and Splinshints, but I can't comprehend it for you. One simple bastard a day is my limit and thanks to you I'm stocked up.

Well, thanks for the assumption that because I don't share your paranoid outrage, I'm a moron. Yes, obviously someone could vote in place of someone who died, but that doesn't mean it happens often, and just because the names of the recently dead were still on the voter rolls (obviously a common occurrence) doesn't justify a witch hunt.

So yeah, go ahead and regularly audit the rolls to remove people who have died. Just don't scream FRAUD! while you're doing it.

Logically fallacy in Subby's headline.

If those other 125,000 people are neither voting, citizens, or living, why are they on the rolls?

Were any of you paying attention in 2000 and 2004 - or did you think Bush actually won?

http://www.salon.com/2002/11/01/lists_2/

http://www.gregpalast.com/voting-fraud-is-a-fraud-buzzflash-interview s -greg-palast/

Three if you count Jeb Bush.

Subby: they found sufficient evidence for charges for these two, NOT only two have been found.

Good jorb you jackwagons, make this about Democrats and Republicans not about honesty and integrity in elections.

If your chosen party has as their strategy relying on dead and inelligable voters for it's electoral results then you need to rethink your outrage and your grasp on reality.

Geez, I'm surprised Republicans even bother to do this anymore. I mean, they've already proven the truth of what that commie Lenin or Stalin said about how it doesn't matter who votes as much as it does who counts the votes. And with all of those nice, new, pitifully insecure electronic ballot boxes made by good old Amurikan corporate people like Diebold, nothing could possibly go worng. Amirite?

\And if things get tight for the GOP, they've always got SCOTUS to fall back on. Bush v. Gore, Citizens United, etc., etc.

Diogenes: Ha! (Warning: CSB)

Just got a call on my cell phone last night from United in Purpose, an Evangelical group. They wanted to know if I was tired of Obama's high taxes and spending, and if I was not registered, they'd get me registered.

Here's a piece on them.

So they're trying to purge Democratic leaning voters while running a slipshod operation to register Christians and Republican leaning voters. Coincidence? I think not. Plus, this operation is out of California, while I live in Orlando.

Yet ACORN were the bad guys.


But I was told by conservatives that California is inhospitable for businesses, right-leaning organizations and religion!!!

deadcrickets: But the GOP is just showing how Small Government and Fiscally Conservative they are with this!

The GOP: Government small enough to fit in your uterus!

/at least here in Virginia

GT_bike: Subby: they found sufficient evidence for charges for these two, NOT only two have been found.

Good jorb you jackwagons, make this about Democrats and Republicans not about honesty and integrity in elections.

If your chosen party has as their strategy relying on dead and inelligable voters for it's electoral results then you need to rethink your outrage and your grasp on reality.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110 8 30

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/national-affairs/florida-g o p-takes-voter-supression-to-a-brazen-new-extreme-20120530

http://electionfraudblog.com/election-fraud-beginners-guide/

Fluorescent Testicle: evilmrsock: I would assume the D outrage is more related to the cost of the initiative in relation to its results.

I'm not a Democrat, but this is half of my problem with it, yeah (the other half is that this whole molehill-to-mountain of "Voter ID fraud" is a half-assed dog whistle designed to get the racists fired up before the election, and that it's working). What a complete and total waste of money.

Sure it's about the waste of money because the cost of false voters altering our political process doesn't cost us anything, it couldn't possibly harm us as bad as a records purge does.

filter: domenad: There were over 100k names on the rolls of dead and ineligible people.

Subby is a moron who shouldn't be allowed to vote. http://www.theledger.com/article/20120518/POLITICS/120519309

No kidding. But how many were added after they were dead? I doubt many, if any. Why would a dead person magically drop off the list? System is a joke. There should be no need to register if voting is a right. No wonder turnout is so low.

This is what we need to do:

Every registered voter in the polity must vote, either by mail or in person, by a certain date. If you haven't voted within X days of the election, the state attempts to contact you to get your vote. If you're dead, they mark it down and you're removed from the rolls. If you're alive, you give them your vote. To ensure that you have a right to not "vote", there is always a "none of the above" option and a write-in option. You're automatically registered to vote every time you do anything with the government involving your identity - pay your taxes, get a government-issued ID, or pick up a government benefits check, or - and this is important - register for free to vote.

After you vote, you get a cryptographically-secure receipt of the votes you made. The polity publishes a public cryptographic key and your receipt is signed. You can verify that the votes you made are the votes printed on the receipt. At any time up to a year after the election, anyone can get anonymized copies of every ballot, once again cryptographically signed. Anyone can request copies of the entire election's ballots (with no names or other identifying information associated with them) and do an independent recount. Since everything is cryptographically signed, it's hard to fake an election, and since anyone can request copies of all the ballots, anyone can do a recount. If you're worried that your vote wasn't counted, you can request a copy of all the ballots and make sure it's in there.

If the published counts don't match up with independent verification, something's fishy. If you're not contacted for your vote, or are contacted after you vote, something's fishy.

Because you get a receipt, you can verify your vote counted. Because anyone can request copies of all the ballots, the election is independently verifiable. Because the ballots are anonymized, no one can force someone else to vote a certain way. Because voting is mandatory, everyone who is supposed to be able to vote can vote. Because registration is automatic in many different contexts, the voter rolls are maintained reasonably well. Because the ballots and receipts are cryptographically signed, you know that what's printed on them is what was actually on them.

Of course there are holes - if the private signing key is compromised, votes could be faked. That's somewhat mitigated by the fact that each individual voter can verify his or her vote, and could be even more mitigated by releasing the private key a year after the election or something like that.

It's a non-story now. The Justice Department has sent Florida a cease and desist letter about purging. Additionally, a federal court has ruled that FL's new law requiring organizations conducting voter registration drives to turn in registration forms within 48 hours of completion or they will be declared invalid is unconstitutional. Sorry GOP but you've failed again.

Trackball: You Democrat Pro-fraudsters are starting to sound like Truthers and Birthers.

That makes no sense, no matter how I look at it.

Silly Jesus: [www.jookos.com image 640x480]

What part of "The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election...shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax" do you not understand? Even if it isn't racist, requiring someone to give money to the government is, according to every conservative ever, a tax. If you have to pay money to the state to get an ID, and you have to have an ID to vote, then you are de facto paying a tax to vote.

Ooops! Forgot Fark doesn't automatically hyperlink! Oh well - apparently Fark also likes to toss links as "unfetchable".

My university's college republicans (without identifying themselves as such) were registering voters on campus at the entrance to the business school. This was in September. I heard from a couple of people who signed up there and opted to choose Democrat on the form didn't get their registrations complete until mid November. Meanwhile, people who I knew that didn't select a party affiliation or selected Republican received theirs in a timely manner and were able to vote that year.

That's the same College Republican group that held a States' Rights themed party which apparently is a party where you invite your white friends and put up confederate flags as decoration. They of course were calling for the federal government to ban same sex marriage when Massachusetts made it legal. They also observed Robert E. Lee's birthday instead of MLK Jr. day on our university's day off in January. What a shiatty group of cheaters and assholes.

lennavan: Because under the guise of "voter fraud," they can suppress the vote from groups that tend to vote (D) and win more elections. This is about winning elections for one side, not about fairness in elections.

If you think trying to identify people who are non-citizens, non-residents of a particular voting area and those who are unregistered to vote is "voter suppression" then I have a bridge to sell you.

besides, isn't a bit bigoted for democrats to just assume that brown people dont have ID and cant be bothered to understand the voting process?

Silly Jesus: [www.jookos.com image 640x480]

That's pretty much a pack of lies.

- It's possible to board an airplane without valid id. I've done it. The TSA asks you a bunch of questions to prove that you are who you say you are. Things like "what's your brother's middle name?", and "who lives at (address of a close relative)?"

- You can be admitted into a hospital without id, happens all the time. Dr's offices are private businesses and they get to decide under what conditions they will accept your business.

- There is no requirement to show id to apply for a job. I've done it many time.

- Nope, picked up a prescription for my son and a co-worker the other day. Just told them the names and they handed me the drugs. No id involved.

- I'm able to make bank transactions online with my username and password.

- I don't recall sending id along with my applications for University. Of course that was some time ago, perhaps that has changed.

- I never showed id to get my utilities hooked up. They knew where I lived :-)

- When I bought my car my dealer registered it for me. I never had to show my id for that.

- Just got a free HIV test on Friday. Took 20 minutes, but required no id.

- Haven't donated blood in a while, but they never asked for ID when I did. Has this changed?

- Pretty sure you caan buy a firearm at a gun show without showing ID, and you can definitely do that if you a buying from a private individual.

- Last few times I wrote a check I didn't need to show ID.

- Definitely don't need to show ID to use a credit card. I don't even sign my cards and they almost never ask for ID.

- Have bought train tickets online without showing ID.

- I just give them my library card when I want to check out a book. I don't have to show ID.

- I've never had to show ID to apply to rent an apartment.

Again, pack of lies. Why are you repeating them?

jimmy2x: I also think that the "proof" mechanism is being overdone. BUT, telling us that Florida has caught a grand total of two miscreants, tells us nothing. You would have to be pretty dumb to show up to fraudulently vote without the proper ID in a state where it is required.

this is only the people from miami dade county, not the whole state. and they didn't even get to finish because miami dade was ordered to stop looking for the illegal voters that the law orders them to attempt to find and remove.
and the process isn't working very efficiently because the Obama administration has decided not to follow the law and hand over the ICE database since it will hurt his reelection chances.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/03/v-fullstory/2830794/how-obama- ai ded-and-abetted-scotts.html

Lord Dimwit: Silly Jesus: [www.jookos.com image 640x480]

What part of "The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election...shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax" do you not understand? Even if it isn't racist, requiring someone to give money to the government is, according to every conservative ever, a tax. If you have to pay money to the state to get an ID, and you have to have an ID to vote, then you are de facto paying a tax to vote.

Lol.

There is no "Right to Vote" in Federal elections.

Here is a group trying to make it become a right. Link

Here is a U.S. Representative attempting to amend the Constitution to make is a right. Link

Here's a quite complex explanation of this concept, and it's history. Link

And here's what SCOTUS said. Link

Also, the ID's proposed are free. Yes, the taxpayers end up paying for them in the end, but they also end up paying for the ballots and the people to count the votes etc. So it's a wash...

I am sure this is way undercounted sort of like the whole number for people being tested that tested posative for drugs while on welfare. Speaking of that anyone get the count of people that were given the choice to take a test or get off welfare. I know there are atleast 5 households that took the get off welfare choice. But I guess those numbers are not good enough to report. PS If I know 5 imagine how many there are out there.

Well, the dimes make the dollars, right?

Zasteva: - There is no requirement to show id to apply for a job. I've done it many time.


the requirement is for new hires, not when you turn in your app to mcdonalds.

Silly Jesus: www.jookos.com

Most of those things don't require an ID and only three of them aren't strictly private transactions. None of them are rights.

So, basically, your fancy graphic is mostly wrong to begin with, and even where it's not, it mostly refers to the requirements placed on private transactions by private parties that can set whatever restrictions they want.

Have you been sufficiently embarrassed for posting such a foolish thing or would you like to try and press the flimsy tatters of your horrendously disingenuous argument in favor of preventing people from participating in one of the most fundamental defenses of liberty possible?

Silly Jesus: Lord Dimwit: Silly Jesus: [www.jookos.com image 640x480]

What part of "The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election...shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax" do you not understand? Even if it isn't racist, requiring someone to give money to the government is, according to every conservative ever, a tax. If you have to pay money to the state to get an ID, and you have to have an ID to vote, then you are de facto paying a tax to vote.

Lol.

There is no "Right to Vote" in Federal elections.



The 1965 Voting Rights act says pretty much otherwise.

And while I am at it, incompetent banks like BOA can keep track of every penny I spend, no matter what continent. Yet elections can recount and recount and recount, and never come up with the same totals twice. It is 2012. When will we have accurate election results?

Splinshints: Silly Jesus: www.jookos.com

Most of those things don't require an ID and only three of them aren't strictly private transactions. None of them are rights.

So, basically, your fancy graphic is mostly wrong to begin with, and even where it's not, it mostly refers to the requirements placed on private transactions by private parties that can set whatever restrictions they want.

Have you been sufficiently embarrassed for posting such a foolish thing or would you like to try and press the flimsy tatters of your horrendously disingenuous argument in favor of preventing people from participating in one of the most fundamental defenses of liberty possible?

Not yet.

How about we ask him why he thinks you need an ID to volunteer at a secular - i.e. "non-prophet" - organization?

... or, I suppose, ask him where he lives that he has to pay a utility to not block the sun. Springfield?

Spudsy1: But I guess those numbers are not good enough to report. PS If I know 5 imagine how many there are out there.

Soooo..... your argument here is that a problem is widespread because you made an unverifiable claim that I'm supposed to expand speculatively on in my own imagination?

I personally know of none. Therefore you should be able to imagine that the problem doesn't exist it all. Guess I won that argument, huh?

Zasteva: Silly Jesus: [www.jookos.com image 640x480]

That's pretty much a pack of lies.

- It's possible to board an airplane without valid id. I've done it. The TSA asks you a bunch of questions to prove that you are who you say you are. Things like "what's your brother's middle name?", and "who lives at (address of a close relative)?"

I have always been asked for ID. Especially post 9/11. The one time that I forgot it I was made to go all the way out to the parking lot to retrieve it from my car before I could go further.

- You can be admitted into a hospital without id, happens all the time. Dr's offices are private businesses and they get to decide under what conditions they will accept your business.

Sure, you can be treated without an ID, but they would at some point like to know who to send the bill to and that you aren't just throwing out some random name.

- There is no requirement to show id to apply for a job. I've done it many time.

That depends on your line of work. I have always been required to do so.

- Nope, picked up a prescription for my son and a co-worker the other day. Just told them the names and they handed me the drugs. No id involved.

True. I've done that as well.

- I'm able to make bank transactions online with my username and password.

True.

- I don't recall sending id along with my applications for University. Of course that was some time ago, perhaps that has changed.

It has.

- I never showed id to get my utilities hooked up. They knew where I lived :-)

I needed to.

- When I bought my car my dealer registered it for me. I never had to show my id for that.

I did.

- Just got a free HIV test on Friday. Took 20 minutes, but required no id.

I use a condom so I'll defer to you on this one.

- Haven't donated blood in a while, but they never asked for ID when I did. Has this changed?

Not a fan of needles.

- Pretty sure you caan buy a firearm at a gun show without showing ID, and you can definitely do that if you a buying from a private individual.

Um, definitely needed ID for gun purchase.

- Last few times I wrote a check I didn't need to show ID.

Me neither.

- Definitely don't need to show ID to use a credit card. I don't even sign my cards and they almost never ask for ID.

Ditto.

- Have bought train tickets online without showing ID.

I was required to show ID at the station. That was a few years ago though.

- I just give them my library card when I want to check out a book. I don't have to show ID.

I don't go to the library.

- I've never had to show ID to apply to rent an apartment.

I did.

Again, pack of lies. Why are you repeating them?

Just because things aren't how you've experienced them does not mean that they are not that way for anyone.

The larger point being that there are things in everyday life that many, many people use ID for and no one is OMG THAT BURDEN IS INSURMOUNTABLE !!!1!!!!1!!!111!! OMG, ID'S ARE RAAAAACIST!!!!!11!!!1!!

Silly Jesus: [www.jookos.com image 640x480]

No, it's not racist to ask for an ID to vote. However, right now that is an excellent way for Republicans to identify 'likely' Democrats to prevent THEM from voting. Republicans don't want to prevent minorities from voting; just prevent Democrats from voting.

For example, if I wanted to have a picnic and invite only non-racists, I would invite only non-Republicans. Sure, there are racist Democrats, and there are non-racist Republicans, but it's an excellent statistical indicator.

Splinshints: Silly Jesus: www.jookos.com

Most of those things don't require an ID and only three of them aren't strictly private transactions. None of them are rights.

So, basically, your fancy graphic is mostly wrong to begin with, and even where it's not, it mostly refers to the requirements placed on private transactions by private parties that can set whatever restrictions they want.

Have you been sufficiently embarrassed for posting such a foolish thing or would you like to try and press the flimsy tatters of your horrendously disingenuous argument in favor of preventing people from participating in one of the most fundamental defenses of liberty possible?

Wessoman: Silly Jesus: Lord Dimwit: Silly Jesus: [www.jookos.com image 640x480]

What part of "The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election...shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax" do you not understand? Even if it isn't racist, requiring someone to give money to the government is, according to every conservative ever, a tax. If you have to pay money to the state to get an ID, and you have to have an ID to vote, then you are de facto paying a tax to vote.

Lol.

There is no "Right to Vote" in Federal elections.



The 1965 Voting Rights act says pretty much otherwise.

Did you ignore all of those links?

Is SCOTUS gravely mistaken?

Is the US Representative fighting for the "right" wasting his time?

Read up on some before you embarrass yourself further.

Lord Dimwit

That's probably the strongest argument I've heard from the anti-ID side but I still don't buy it. The state ID has many and various uses, only one of which involves going to the polls. If I pay $40 for a driver's license, how much of it is a "poll tax?" I drive daily but only vote 2-3 times per year. I can also use my license to cash checks, get on an airplane and many other things.

And to take your argument to an extreme, I pay taxes on the gas I use to drive to the polls, is that a poll tax? If I vote by absentee ballot, does the cost of the stamp count? It's all money paid to the government so I can exercise my right to vote.

The reason I don't have a problem with an ID check is that there are too many idiots, on both sides, who decide on the day of the election that the system is rigged against them because they haven't bothered to get their ducks in a row. Intelligent, reasoned voting is not a one day experience. You have 5 months between now and election day. Primaries have been going on since March. If you want to vote, go to your election board NOW. If you wait until the day of or the day before, don't be surprised when you run into problems. You're not being suppressed, you're being unprepared.

Vlad_the_Inaner: Lord Dimwit: Of course there are holes - if the private signing key is compromised, votes could be faked. That's somewhat mitigated by the fact that each individual voter can verify his or her vote, and could be even more mitigated by releasing the private key a year after the election or something like that.

But none of that prevents the fact that under your scenario, the vote could be transferred to another party, especially under duress.

"Like your job? Yes? OK, hand over your voter key"

True. I guess it boils down to which is a bigger problem - people being forced to vote a certain way by a third party, or your vote's being unverifiable once it's cast. I honestly don't know which is a bigger problem. I'm not sure there's a good solution to both problems. I just hate that in current voting systems, once you've cast your vote, it's entirely in the hands of those who count the votes. It's not hard to fake a bunch of ballots, especially in electronic voting polities.

The voter coercion thing could be a little mitigated by giving you an encrypted receipt; the decryption key wouldn't be released for some time. That would mean that your vote isn't immediately verifiable by third parties (or yourself, unfortunately).

In the case of employer coercion, of course, it would be illegal in the same way that gender discrimination is illegal - plenty of places break the law regarding it, but there's at least recourse. I'd be more worried about social-stigma-style intimidation: "When you come to church this Sunday, be sure to bring your voter receipt! You know how God wants you to vote!"

Dear Young idealists,

So the argument is, if there is no proof anyone is breaking the law then we dont need to enforce the law, right?

1) Before we begin, can we assume we all agree that illegal aliens should not be allowed to vote?

2) If no one is enforcing a citizen check, then can we assume more illegals might try to vote? I mean, if we dont enforce the border they seem more inclined to come here, why not use their numbers to vote? Especially if no one is checking?

3) You can bet your 24 years of life experience and liberal arts education that you would be the first person to object if you thought these illegals were voting for Republicans, but since it seems to serve your purpose, you are fine with them voting.

4) Democrats have a habit of leaving out citizen verification in govt programs because they would rather buy the votes of illegals and not worry what long term damage illegals do to the country. This is typical short sightedness. The 1st draft of Obamacare left out citizen verification. The repubs asked that it be included and it only was after someone called the President a liar during the SOTU addresses. (He was right, btw)

5) Your President, the messiah, you know, the centrist, the man who would bridge partisanship, the transformational leader, cannot run on his thin record so he is going to need every vote he can to get reelected so he can have more flexibility in his second term. So he is MORE than motivated to let illegal aliens, space aliens, cows, and dead people vote.

6) Flame on, I never read them anyway.

7) You idiots were sure singing a different tune after the 2000 election.

Lord Dimwit: Diogenes: Ha! (Warning: CSB)

Just got a call on my cell phone last night from United in Purpose, an Evangelical group. They wanted to know if I was tired of Obama's high taxes and spending, and if I was not registered, they'd get me registered.

Here's a piece on them.

So they're trying to purge Democratic leaning voters while running a slipshod operation to register Christians and Republican leaning voters. Coincidence? I think not. Plus, this operation is out of California, while I live in Orlando.

Yet ACORN were the bad guys.

(a) I certainly hope said Evangelical group is not tax-exempt.

(b) Did you point out that taxes are lower under Obama?

THIS, I'm still waiting to see these supposed high taxes the Right keeps telling me about.

Silly Jesus: i0.kym-cdn.com

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. You post a graphic that's easily exposed as both inaccurate and massively dishonest and the best you can do is post a stupid image in response. I guess, however, there is no defense of the indefensible.

You're an idiot and a liar and I'm sorry I wasted my time responding to you.