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(NewsBusters)   Paul Krugman: Scott Walkers economic plans are bad for Wisconsin. George Will: Then how come the $3billion deficit he inherited in now a surplus   (newsbusters.org) divider line 208
    More: Obvious, Paul Krugman, George Will, Wisconsin, deficits, economic surplus, syndicated columnist  
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1921 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Jun 2012 at 9:59 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-04 09:10:02 AM
Because George Will doesn't read the news very often:

From Milwaukee Wisconsin Journal Sentinel:

"Madison - Gov. Scott Walker's administration has touted for months its efforts to balance the state budget, but now it also has acknowledged a significant way in which the budget isn't balanced.

To keep the possibility alive of making further cuts to state health programs, the Walker administration quietly certified to the federal government on Dec. 29 that the state had a deficit.

Federal law allows the state to drop tens of thousands of adults to save money on health care costs if the state can show it has a deficit. Walker has said he wants to cut health care spending in other ways, but hasn't ruled out dropping those 53,000 adults if the other methods aren't approved by the federal government.

To keep that option alive, state Administration Secretary Mike Huebsch wrote in a December letter to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services that the state would have an undisclosed deficit from Jan. 1 of this year through June 30, 2013.
...
That's the measure that state officials use for budgets and the one Walker has repeatedly touted in statements when he says he eliminated a $3 billion budget deficit on a cash accounting basis.

But the state's accounting method falls well short of those used by publicly traded companies. Those "generally accepted accounting principles" count not just whether the state has cash on hand but also whether it has made promises to pay money that it can't back out on.""
 
2012-06-04 09:16:09 AM
The butthurt on the bed-wetters Tuesday will be lots of fun. I have popcorn.
 
2012-06-04 09:17:00 AM

RexTalionis: Because George Will doesn't read the news very often: is a lying republican



Fixa4u
 
2012-06-04 09:18:38 AM

RexTalionis: "generally accepted accounting principles"


I just want to know whom, aside from the international accounting trade and corporations/states/individuals looking to lie to themselves and others, finds these f*cking mathematical abortions to be "generally accepted." You're basically lying to yourself and to those impacted by the balance sheet.

"Well, we ASSUME that revenue will go up 12% IF this and this happens, but we're just going to go ahead and book that as revenue."

I know my state does it and it sucks. They've become a little more realistic as cities are going bankrupt and the true size of the pension shortfall has become apparent.
 
2012-06-04 09:21:18 AM
Even if it were true, having a surplus is not necessarily good for the economy.
 
2012-06-04 09:22:52 AM
The man running against Scott Walker, Mayor Barrett of Milwaukee, has used the Walker reforms to save $19 million in the Milwaukee budget itself, so he's running against a man whose reforms he's emulating and using.

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-06-04 09:26:41 AM
A surplus now sure.
Walker sold off a bunch of public property to his backers.
So the state got upfront cash, but are now going to have to pay more a year to use the property he sold off.
 
2012-06-04 09:28:30 AM

Bunnyhat: So the state got upfront cash, but are now going to have to pay more a year to use the property he sold off.


So, are you trying to tell me that it is an unwise investment to take a lump sum payment for things you'll have to rent back for the rest of time with absolutely no third-party able to offer a better rate?

How dare you, Sir! How dare you involve math in this!
 
2012-06-04 09:28:35 AM
Walker's accounting of the state's budget is a bit like if you owed $5000 dollars and had $1000 dollars in the bank and saying that your worth is $1000 dollars.
 
2012-06-04 09:31:32 AM

NewportBarGuy: RexTalionis: "generally accepted accounting principles"

I just want to know whom, aside from the international accounting trade and corporations/states/individuals looking to lie to themselves and others, finds these f*cking mathematical abortions to be "generally accepted." You're basically lying to yourself and to those impacted by the balance sheet.

"Well, we ASSUME that revenue will go up 12% IF this and this happens, but we're just going to go ahead and book that as revenue."

I know my state does it and it sucks. They've become a little more realistic as cities are going bankrupt and the true size of the pension shortfall has become apparent.


IIRC, there was another thread where part of his "balanced budget" came from simply not paying certain debts until the next fiscal year, and then Wisconsin would get hit with additional late fees and interest in FY2013. I can't seem to find it, though.
 
2012-06-04 09:32:26 AM
so...basically, George WIll is either outright lying or he's simply lazy and just repeating a bunch of standard issue talking points.
 
2012-06-04 09:36:46 AM
www.usgovernmentspending.com

Just for fun, here's the government debt for Wisconsin. See how it starts to rise from 2010-2012?
 
2012-06-04 09:41:11 AM

Sgt Otter: IIRC, there was another thread where part of his "balanced budget" came from simply not paying certain debts until the next fiscal year, and then Wisconsin would get hit with additional late fees and interest in FY2013. I can't seem to find it, though.


They are basically using the business tactic of delaying debt by refinancing. Instead of paying of debt that is due now, they simply roll it over and incur millions in new interest charges, but they free up current capital to appear as if that money is theirs. It is, for now, they just pay interest on it.

State officials refinanced $190.1 million in May 2011 that would have otherwise been repaid. New bonds were sold in September 2011 to avoid paying $45.4 million in payments coming due in November 2012. And in March 2012, $218 million in debt payments due in May were delayed. The administration will also postpone another $104.8 million this May.

In one year, May 2011 to May 2012, a total of $558.3 million in debt payments due were delayed. Taxpayers will pay $156.2 million in new interest charges because of those recent financial actions. This new debt won't be paid off until 2030-31.
 
2012-06-04 10:01:09 AM
Since when was the government budget deficit the sole way we evaluate the quality of an economic plan?
 
2012-06-04 10:01:44 AM
Did I make it in here before the Krugman hate?

Rawr Keynesian Rawr! He's a hack because he has an opinion etc.
 
2012-06-04 10:02:08 AM
 
2012-06-04 10:05:22 AM

Weaver95: so...basically, George WIll is either outright lying or he's simply lazy and just repeating a bunch of standard issue talking points.


C) All of the above.
 
2012-06-04 10:07:06 AM
oh noess, facts are getting in the way of the liberal hate.

waaahhhh.
 
2012-06-04 10:07:35 AM

Weaver95: so...basically, George WIll is either outright lying or he's simply lazy and just repeating a bunch of standard issue talking points.


Pretty sure George Will will say *anything* if it means a paycheck on Friday from now until the day the pension comes due.
 
2012-06-04 10:08:21 AM
Guess they're leaving off all the public sector jobs that have gone bye-bye under Scotty boy.

According to the Wisconsin State Journal..

"From March 2011 to March 2012, the state lost 23,900 jobs, for the country's largest percentage decrease, at 0.9 percent.

Of the 23,900 jobs lost in Wisconsin in that period, 17,900 were from the public sector."

Taking almost 18000 people off the public payroll can be manipulated into "savings" to the state budget if you frame it just right.
 
2012-06-04 10:08:39 AM

RexTalionis: Because George Will doesn't read the news very often:

From Milwaukee Wisconsin Journal Sentinel:


I think he read that back in JANUARY 2012.

You may want to try keeping up with the latest news. That is why they call it news. Because it is new.
 
2012-06-04 10:09:32 AM

Flab: Weaver95: so...basically, George WIll is either outright lying or he's simply lazy and just repeating a bunch of standard issue talking points.

C) All of the above.


img204.imageshack.us



COMETH ATETH ME, BRETHREN!
 
2012-06-04 10:10:11 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: oh noess, facts are getting in the way of the liberal hate.

waaahhhh.


I'm not necessarily disputing that fact (though the information RexTalonis found does a good job of that), but I will vehemently dispute the notion that the government budget deficit is the sole way that we evaluate the quality of an economic plan.
 
2012-06-04 10:10:30 AM
Oh FFS. Anyone who still believes this "we did everything to balance the budget" nonsense deserves to be duped.
 
2012-06-04 10:10:53 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: oh noess, facts are getting in the way of the liberal hate.

waaahhhh.


Clearly you didn't read the article or you don't understand that bullsh@t math involved to show this "surplus". Support the guy if you don't like unions and don't care about his corruption, just don't be an idiot.
 
2012-06-04 10:12:03 AM
I hope the people of Wisconsin aren't idiots tomorrow. Anyone who favors only the wealthy and giant corporations over their constituents is a poor excuse for a government official. I hope people stand behind the unions and against Walkers obvious no bid contracts to the Koch corporation and dozens of other unethical and downright stupid policies.

/United Campus Worker
//I pay my dues because I care about having a voice
 
2012-06-04 10:12:27 AM
This was already debunked like a year ago, I guess just wait till people forget and try to spread the same lies...
 
2012-06-04 10:12:55 AM
Some days I wonder whether it's actually ME who is completely misinterpreting objective reality, because it just doesn't seem likely that conservatives could do it SO CONSISTENTLY.
 
2012-06-04 10:13:06 AM

NewportBarGuy: Bunnyhat: So the state got upfront cash, but are now going to have to pay more a year to use the property he sold off.

So, are you trying to tell me that it is an unwise investment to take a lump sum payment for things you'll have to rent back for the rest of time with absolutely no third-party able to offer a better rate?

How dare you, Sir! How dare you involve math in this!


macrorecords.files.wordpress.com

Hey, it was his money, and he needed it now!
 
2012-06-04 10:13:39 AM

Weaver95: so...basically, George WIll is either outright lying or he's simply lazy and just repeating a bunch of standard issue talking points.


I'm going with lazy. Pundits have really just been phoning it in for years now. Their utility as propagandists is greatly diminished if they go off message, so they all keep the line.
 
2012-06-04 10:14:04 AM

Citrate1007: tenpoundsofcheese: oh noess, facts are getting in the way of the liberal hate.

waaahhhh.

Clearly you didn't read the article or you don't understand that bullsh@t math involved to show this "surplus". Support the guy if you don't like unions and don't care about his corruption, just don't be an idiot.


you mean that article from SIX months ago that does not account for 3,000,000,000 in surplus? That article?
 
2012-06-04 10:14:16 AM
crooksandliars.com
 
2012-06-04 10:14:57 AM
Goddammit
 
2012-06-04 10:15:02 AM

Serious Black: Since when was the government budget deficit the sole way we evaluate the quality of an economic plan?


Ever since Reagan proved that deficits don't matter.
 
2012-06-04 10:15:48 AM

sigdiamond2000: [crooksandliars.com image 333x500]


Wow. Is there anything about that guy that doesn't scream "whites only?"
 
2012-06-04 10:16:09 AM

RexTalionis: [www.usgovernmentspending.com image 300x250]

Just for fun, here's the government debt for Wisconsin. See how it starts to rise from 2010-2012?


See how the pink shows that the figures you're citing are estimates based on information from BEFORE WALKER WAS IN OFFICE?

Sheesh, how stupid do you think we are? Oh, yeah, you're pimping for Barett, so really, really stupid.

From your cited source, btw:
Note:
1. Federal spending after 2011 is budgeted.
2. State spending after 2010 and local spending after 2009 are "guesstimated" by projecting the latest change in reported spending forward to future years
 
2012-06-04 10:16:24 AM

Serious Black: Since when was the government budget deficit the sole way we evaluate the quality of an economic plan?


January 20th, 2009
 
2012-06-04 10:19:28 AM
Gird yourselves. Walker's looking like a winner.

Prepare your "it doesn't mean anything" talking points.

Here's a primer:

Out of state money.
Koch brothers!
Gawddamned Milwaukee mayor.
Voter fraud!
Fark that cheese.
 
2012-06-04 10:19:46 AM

NewportBarGuy: Sgt Otter: IIRC, there was another thread where part of his "balanced budget" came from simply not paying certain debts until the next fiscal year, and then Wisconsin would get hit with additional late fees and interest in FY2013. I can't seem to find it, though.

They are basically using the business tactic of delaying debt by refinancing. Instead of paying of debt that is due now, they simply roll it over and incur millions in new interest charges, but they free up current capital to appear as if that money is theirs. It is, for now, they just pay interest on it.

State officials refinanced $190.1 million in May 2011 that would have otherwise been repaid. New bonds were sold in September 2011 to avoid paying $45.4 million in payments coming due in November 2012. And in March 2012, $218 million in debt payments due in May were delayed. The administration will also postpone another $104.8 million this May.

In one year, May 2011 to May 2012, a total of $558.3 million in debt payments due were delayed. Taxpayers will pay $156.2 million in new interest charges because of those recent financial actions. This new debt won't be paid off until 2030-31.


Sir, are you suggesting that the Walker plan was not fix old, no new? I had heard that the GOP way was to reduce deficits and curb new spending.

Nobody tell angry grandma. I fear her face may leap off her skull and begin consuming the surrounding farmlands.
 
2012-06-04 10:20:27 AM
Me: Burning plastic generates toxic fumes that are bad for your health.

George Will: Then why is it warmer in here?
 
2012-06-04 10:21:29 AM

Headso: This was already debunked like a year ago, I guess just wait till people forget and try to spread the same lies...


Debunking rarely stops members of either party from repeating BS. They tend not to let objective numbers get in the way of how it "feels"
 
2012-06-04 10:21:42 AM
I'm going to drink a sixer before going to vote tomorrow.
 
2012-06-04 10:23:05 AM
I am looking forward to Wednesday morning.

No more agressive ads on my TV. No more color flyers in my mailbox.

And Governor Walker being able to finish out his term, putting this recall BS behind him.

Oh - and of course I look forward to the "Walker wins" Fark thread where all the Fark Progressives will blame vote rigging, vote stealing, vote finding (ala Prosser-Waukesha ballot finding mistake).

/That will be a happy day!!
 
2012-06-04 10:23:57 AM

Overfiend: I am looking forward to Wednesday morning.

No more agressive ads on my TV. No more color flyers in my mailbox.

And Governor Walker being able to finish out his term, putting this recall BS behind him.

Oh - and of course I look forward to the "Walker wins" Fark thread where all the Fark Progressives will blame vote rigging, vote stealing, vote finding (ala Prosser-Waukesha ballot finding mistake).

/That will be a happy day!!


Why would anyone want Walker to win?
 
2012-06-04 10:24:49 AM
Really, even Snidely Whiplash would tell Scott Walker he's going too far.
 
2012-06-04 10:25:07 AM

Alphax: Overfiend: I am looking forward to Wednesday morning.

No more agressive ads on my TV. No more color flyers in my mailbox.

And Governor Walker being able to finish out his term, putting this recall BS behind him.

Oh - and of course I look forward to the "Walker wins" Fark thread where all the Fark Progressives will blame vote rigging, vote stealing, vote finding (ala Prosser-Waukesha ballot finding mistake).

/That will be a happy day!!

Why would anyone want Walker to win?


Race to the bottom. With Walker in charge, all those countries that offer cheap labor for the highest bidder will have a new contender to deal with.
 
2012-06-04 10:25:10 AM

Alphax: Overfiend: I am looking forward to Wednesday morning.

No more agressive ads on my TV. No more color flyers in my mailbox.

And Governor Walker being able to finish out his term, putting this recall BS behind him.

Oh - and of course I look forward to the "Walker wins" Fark thread where all the Fark Progressives will blame vote rigging, vote stealing, vote finding (ala Prosser-Waukesha ballot finding mistake).

/That will be a happy day!!

Why would anyone want Walker to win?


If it's more important for your team to win than for your state to prosper . . .
 
2012-06-04 10:25:27 AM

EyeballKid: sigdiamond2000: [crooksandliars.com image 333x500]

Wow. Is there anything about that guy that doesn't scream "whites only?"


I'm thinking "in more dire need of a blowjob than any white man in history". Safe to assume the whys & hows of that one...

// *dry heave*
 
2012-06-04 10:26:27 AM
My prediction on how this will end;

It will be an even split but will come down to one Republican controlled district and voter irregularities that, if they actually get that far, will be decided by the Conservative dominated State Supreme court.

Mark my words...it WILL happen. Republicans have too much money on the line to allow the mere "people" to decide how this will end.

I also love how Republicans claim this recall is "thwarting Democracy" yet they slam their mouths shut when you mention Grey Davis's recall that put "Ah-Nuld" in the California governor's mansion.
 
2012-06-04 10:26:54 AM

RexTalionis: Because George Will doesn't read the news very often:

From Milwaukee Wisconsin Journal Sentinel:


FYFA"On one hand, he claims he balanced the budget when he's raising money from special interests - on the other hand, he claims we still have a $3 billion hole when he's looking to drop health care for Wisconsinites when they need it most," Pasch said in a statement.

Two takeaways from this situation: First, numbers cannot be trusted anymore. Politicians, bankers, and corporate fatcats hire armies of accountants and lawyers, who can make numbers say absolutely anything they want the to. We already knew this, but Wisconsin's budget is yet another stark reminder.

Second, if the dirty tactics were used more broadly to show a balanced budget, and thus the reported $3 billion deficit is closer to the true mark, austerity during a weak recovery proves to be a failure once again, as any budgetary gains realized by cuts are offset by losses in revenue.
 
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