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(long but interesting)   George Soros tells Germany they have three months to save the EU, and it won't be through austerity measures   (georgesoros.com) divider line 149
    More: Interesting, George Soros, Italy, Soviet Empire, austerity measures, cognitive functions, law of similars, fiat moneys, invisible hand  
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9066 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jun 2012 at 12:01 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-04 12:33:07 PM

Funk Brothers: Merkel's party in Germany is like dealing with the Tea Party in the US. They're the party of no.


Because enthusiastically yelling 'yes' has done so well, right?
 
2012-06-04 12:34:50 PM
George Soros? There really is a guy named that? I thought "George Soros" was just a name. He's a myth, a spook story that Republicans tell their kids at night. "Rat on your pop, and George Soros will get you." And no-one ever really believes. A phantasm. A boogey-man. There is no George Soros.
 
2012-06-04 12:36:18 PM

Somacandra: George Soros? There really is a guy named that? I thought "George Soros" was just a name. He's a myth, a spook story that Republicans tell their kids at night. "Rat on your pop, and George Soros will get you." And no-one ever really believes. A phantasm. A boogey-man. There is no George Soros.


The greatest trick George Soros pulled was making you think that he didn't exist.
 
2012-06-04 12:36:22 PM
I'm sure the Germans are just dying to hear from the Americans on how to run their economy. I mean what an example to learn from!

And comparing Merkel with the Tea Party disqualifies you from the discussion and the Internet in general.
 
2012-06-04 12:36:55 PM

Somacandra: George Soros? There really is a guy named that? I thought "George Soros" was just a name. He's a myth, a spook story that Republicans tell their kids at night. "Rat on your pop, and George Soros will get you." And no-one ever really believes. A phantasm. A boogey-man. There is no George Soros.


Yeah, but pictures of the guy will give nightmares. You thought Dick Cheney looked evil... Soros looks like some dude who sold what remained of his soul in some unspeakable pagan blood rite generations back.
 
2012-06-04 12:37:17 PM
Ok, let me get this straight...

Europe got into this mess by coming up with a brilliant plan of centralizing the currency. In centralization, when something goes wrong, the shock is systemic. If things are spread out and something goes wrong, the damage tends to be more localized.

So, the next brilliant plan is to go ahead and start centralizing political power as well?

i1151.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-04 12:37:19 PM

Carousel Beast: Funk Brothers: Merkel's party in Germany is like dealing with the Tea Party in the US. They're the party of no.

Because enthusiastically yelling 'yes' has done so well, right?


It works very well... until people come to collect on all the money your government borrowed. Then it kinda falls apart.
 
2012-06-04 12:37:34 PM

numbone: Beware Soros, he's palindromic.


That sounds scary!
 
2012-06-04 12:38:02 PM

jaybeezey: The greatest trick George Soros pulled was making you think that he didn't exist.


Ah, I see the 'usual suspects' are chiming in now.
 
2012-06-04 12:41:29 PM
I love How Soros talks about how great the EU once was, and how it was so successful, and laments how it is now, ignoring the fact that the EU was experiencing unsustainable growth promoted by endless borrowing of money. He has no clue that a "bubble" in economic sense is just the economy stopping unsustainable growth. If the housing market here in the US had not popped, houses would soon be unaffordable to first time home buyers. But thankfully the market corrected itself, and home values got back in check. I'm sorry if people assumed the home they bought 20 years ago magically tripled in value, and are now disappointed that it actually hasn't.
 
2012-06-04 12:41:32 PM

Somacandra: George Soros? There really is a guy named that? I thought "George Soros" was just a name. He's a myth, a spook story that Republicans tell their kids at night. "Rat on your pop, and George Soros will get you." And no-one ever really believes. A phantasm. A boogey-man. There is no George Soros.


The biggest trick that George Soros ever played was making people believe that he doesn't exist.
 
2012-06-04 12:42:14 PM
Damn you, jaybeezey!

/shakes tiny fist
 
2012-06-04 12:42:32 PM

Thunderpipes: So if you fail, blame the successful guy and make them responsible...How about kick losers out of the EU and be done with it?


TFA: It would leave Germany with large unenforceable claims against the periphery countries. The Bundesbank alone will have over a trillion euros of claims arising out of Target2 by the end of this year, in addition to all the intergovernmental obligations. And he's right. A lot of institutions have already leveraged this framework to the hilt.
 
2012-06-04 12:44:38 PM

akula: patrick767: Well duh. That austerity won't get your economy out of a recession or depression should have an Obvious tag by now. Sadly the eurozone still thinks it works.

So your stance is that a government can spend its way out of a debt crisis?

The underlying issue here is that people are tired of loaning money to these nations.


Our economic overlords were perfectly happy before the housing fraud tanked the economy. Spain and Ireland were the paragons of a vibrant new European economy.

In hindsight we would have been better off with the stodgy old socialism of Sweden.
 
2012-06-04 12:44:58 PM
Did anyone ever notice that you never see George Soros and Vincent Gardenia together at the same time?

Coincidence?

I think not.
 
mhd
2012-06-04 12:44:59 PM

hinten: I'm sure the Germans are just dying to hear from the Americans on how to run their economy.


Incidentally, there's a big article from former German Secretary of State Joschka Fischer voicing his discontent with the Merkel policies, too. Right when the German stock market index is taking a big dip...

But while a lot of people complain about the uselessness of the austerity politics, the solutions vary. And quite a few of them would require some big changes to the European treaties. Fischer himself was for a big fiscal union, which would be pretty hard to pull off within a few months...
 
2012-06-04 12:45:01 PM
The only way the EU will work is if the Podunk countries surrender their fiscal independence to Germany. They will give them discipline. Otherwise it will be back to flipping pizzas for the Italians, running greasy diners for Greeks, and exporting drunks for the Irish.
 
2012-06-04 12:46:36 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Somacandra: George Soros? There really is a guy named that? I thought "George Soros" was just a name. He's a myth, a spook story that Republicans tell their kids at night. "Rat on your pop, and George Soros will get you." And no-one ever really believes. A phantasm. A boogey-man. There is no George Soros.

The biggest trick that George Soros ever played was making people believe that he doesn't exist.


WORST. MAGICIAN. EVER.
 
2012-06-04 12:48:59 PM

superdude72: Our economic overlords were perfectly happy before the housing fraud tanked the economy. Spain and Ireland were the paragons of a vibrant new European economy.


The gravy train always looks great as long as we assume there's an unending supply of gravy.
 
2012-06-04 12:49:09 PM

Lost_in_Oregon: It's that socialist Obama whose causing all these problems,


Oh come on, everyone knows that ()bama is Soros' sock puppet.

img.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-04 12:51:28 PM
Of course, there is probably no one in this world better positioned to double his money if the Euro tanks, so there's that.
 
jvl
2012-06-04 12:51:45 PM
That was way too long and way too full of himself.

He's not wrong. But how do you plan to convince the Germans to give money to the Greeks? The Greeks are only in trouble because they are farking liars and lied their way into excessive debt. And all off them, from union craftsman to rich doctor, are a bunch of lazy tax-dodgers. The German people know this, so I see no way to convince them to save the Greeks.

Maybe Spain could be saved rather than Greece. Their problem is an investment bubble rather than laziness and borrowing. To make this work, I think Greece should be jettisoned (or just let them jettison themselves), then save Spain to demonstrate that Germany will stand together with people who have honest problems.
 
2012-06-04 12:54:23 PM
So who do Greece, Spain and the others owe so much money to? I decided to look into it, and I found the answer that may come as a shock. Who do they owe all the money to?

i29.photobucket.com

You guessed it, Frank Stallone
 
2012-06-04 12:56:09 PM

jvl: But how do you plan to convince the Germans to give money to the Greeks? The Greeks are only in trouble because they are farking liars and lied their way into excessive debt. And all off them, from union craftsman to rich doctor, are a bunch of lazy tax-dodgers. The German people know this, so I see no way to convince them to save the Greeks.

Maybe Spain could be saved rather than Greece. Their problem is an investment bubble rather than laziness and borrowing. To make this work, I think Greece should be jettisoned (or just let them jettison themselves), then save Spain to demonstrate that Germany will stand together with people who have honest problems.



I think that's about how it has to come down. There's no way at all to save Greece. The Germans have too much sense to act as Greece's ATM indefinitely- they'd be willing to save them now, but Greece refuses to take any steps to fix their problems. I just don't see any way to keep them in the Eurozone without tanking the entire currency permanently and dragging the entire continent over the abyss.

The other nations are salvageable. Somewhat. But I just don't get anybody being pissed at Germany for refusing to hand out cash with no assurance that this will be the last time.

Think about it- would you be interested in hauling your deadbeat brother in law's ass out of the fire without any assurance that he'll quit drinking and go get a damn job? How about when he makes very clear any money you give him will immediately end up in the cash register at the liquor store? Hell, you'd kick his ass off your couch.
 
2012-06-04 12:57:40 PM

tommyl66: So who do Greece, Spain and the others owe so much money to? I decided to look into it, and I found the answer that may come as a shock. Who do they owe all the money to?

[i29.photobucket.com image 252x297]

You guessed it, Frank Stallone


Was only one shoulder cold?
 
2012-06-04 12:59:44 PM

xanadian: I know a common argument is that "government spending and debts aren't like you and your Visa card," but there must come a time when governments can't keep on spending and borrowing. We can't keep doing that until the end of time.

Granted, austerity measures when in the process of a recovery (or attempting to) isn't a good idea.


In the article he also mentions that austerity works well when you are trapped in an inflationary cycle, like Germany was a decade or so ago, when they successfully used it. The problem is that the problems in Italy and Spain are a deflationary cycle, which austerity will only worsen.

I do like that he calls out the buffoons who still believe in an absolute axiomatic approach to economics, however. I'm looking at you, University of Chicago.
 
2012-06-04 01:02:12 PM
Two world wars could not unite europe but economic warfare can? If it works there, why not the whole of the world?
 
2012-06-04 01:04:10 PM

mhd: hinten: I'm sure the Germans are just dying to hear from the Americans on how to run their economy.

Incidentally, there's a big article from former German Secretary of State Joschka Fischer voicing his discontent with the Merkel policies, too. Right when the German stock market index is taking a big dip...

But while a lot of people complain about the uselessness of the austerity politics, the solutions vary. And quite a few of them would require some big changes to the European treaties. Fischer himself was for a big fiscal union, which would be pretty hard to pull off within a few months...



I think Americans have a misunderstanding of how good or bad the German economy is. Hint: they are beating the US in every which way right now and even the Euro losing against the US$ is not necessarily bad.
 
2012-06-04 01:05:15 PM

Itstoearly: I love How Soros talks about how great the EU once was, and how it was so successful, and laments how it is now, ignoring the fact that the EU was experiencing unsustainable growth promoted by endless borrowing of money


You know how I know that your either 1) didn't read the essay or 2) didn't understand it? Soros calles the EU a "fantastic object," which, he explains. is a psychological term for something that seems fantastic, but has no reality. He states that the EU seemed like a good idea at the time, and solved some serious problems, but it took too long to do too little for it to be successful. He ends his essay stating that a flawed EU is preferable to a German hegemony in Europe.

BTW, I remember back in the 1980s, there were many people predicting this very crisis, stating that having a common currency without a common government was insane. This is one of the reasons that Great Britain has opted not to join the EU or adopt the euro as its currency.
 
2012-06-04 01:05:37 PM

tommyl66: So who do Greece, Spain and the others owe so much money to? I decided to look into it, and I found the answer that may come as a shock. Who do they owe all the money to?

[i29.photobucket.com image 252x297]

You guessed it, Frank Stallone


Maybe if they paid him back, he could afford to buy the other half of his coat. I've heard of layaway, but this is silly.

Marcus Aurelius: sweetmelissa31: Marcus Aurelius: jehovahs witness protection: Go back to grinding up dead babies to sprinkle on your salad, Soros.

I thought that was Kissinger.

All Jews do this.

That doesn't sound Kosher to me. I bet it was that Abraham dude that started this, wasn't it?


It isn't strictly kosher or non-kosher, a lot has to do with how things are prepared. You can't have ranch dressing on the salad, for instance.
 
2012-06-04 01:08:04 PM

CheatCommando: xanadian: I know a common argument is that "government spending and debts aren't like you and your Visa card," but there must come a time when governments can't keep on spending and borrowing. We can't keep doing that until the end of time.

Granted, austerity measures when in the process of a recovery (or attempting to) isn't a good idea.

In the article he also mentions that austerity works well when you are trapped in an inflationary cycle, like Germany was a decade or so ago, when they successfully used it. The problem is that the problems in Italy and Spain are a deflationary cycle, which austerity will only worsen.

I do like that he calls out the buffoons who still believe in an absolute axiomatic approach to economics, however. I'm looking at you, University of Chicago.


But... they don't have any money to spend.
 
2012-06-04 01:08:55 PM
Sounds like a lot of big words from someone who spent too much time in school and not enough time in reality, like most of the people in finance today.

It's not hard to recognize bubbles. Comedians even saw the real estate bubble years before it almost wrecked the economy. Just figure out a way to 'pop' them. Like, the government will tax the crap out of any artificially highly priced item. What we need is a branch of government able to take on big companies because rich guys make out like bandits during bubbles. Bubble could actually be good for everybody if we tax the hell out them.
 
2012-06-04 01:09:08 PM

FlashHarry: Marcus Aurelius: jehovahs witness protection: Go back to grinding up dead babies to sprinkle on your salad, Soros.

I thought that was Kissinger.

lol, i thought everybody had JWP blocked.


Blocked? He's on my "favorites" list.
 
2012-06-04 01:10:41 PM

lamric: FlashHarry: Marcus Aurelius: jehovahs witness protection: Go back to grinding up dead babies to sprinkle on your salad, Soros.

I thought that was Kissinger.

lol, i thought everybody had JWP blocked.

Blocked? He's on my "favorites" list.


Can't touch MSTD or spentmiles, tho.
 
2012-06-04 01:12:35 PM

akula: Think about it- would you be interested in hauling your deadbeat brother in law's ass out of the fire without any assurance that he'll quit drinking and go get a damn job? How about when he makes very clear any money you give him will immediately end up in the cash register at the liquor store? Hell, you'd kick his ass off your couch.


What if your deadbeat brother-in-law owed you more money than you have in assets? What if his failure to make payments meant you lost your house? Then what?

You'd do everything you could to clean him up, make sure he stays healthy, get him back on track and start making a minimal amount of monthly payments so you could stay afloat. And if - this is a big if - he cleans up enough to become middle manager at the cubicle farm, he might start making some bank and bailing you out of your debt. In fact, if you could prove his future was bright, you might be able to leverage your debt on his potential while he makes his tiny little payments.

I'm no George Soros, but I think this is what Germany is facing. They can't just "boot" Greece. It's far too late for that.
 
2012-06-04 01:12:55 PM

cgraves67: And Germany will look down and whisper, "Nein."


Nein and a half!

Oh, wait, I thought Europe was already auctioning off their assets.

/I have my eye on a pretty Greek isle.
 
2012-06-04 01:13:28 PM
I'm torn on this. On one hand, Germany wasn't the one spending like crazy and not paying their taxes. On the other, they voluntarily gave Greece joint access to their checking account when they idiotically joined the EU in the first place. I guess I have no choice but to say fark them all.
 
2012-06-04 01:14:30 PM

monoski: Thunderpipes: So if you fail, blame the successful guy and make them responsible. Boy, good thing George is not liberal huh?

How about kick losers out of the EU and be done with it?

They owe a lot of money and once they get the boot that debt will need to be written off and there are many institutions that will likely fail when that happens.


Repossess stuff. Greece has some lovely areas they could turn into vacation resorts and such. Annex their lands.
 
2012-06-04 01:16:06 PM

palelizard: tommyl66: So who do Greece, Spain and the others owe so much money to? I decided to look into it, and I found the answer that may come as a shock. Who do they owe all the money to?

[i29.photobucket.com image 252x297]

You guessed it, Frank Stallone

Maybe if they paid him back, he could afford to buy the other half of his coat. I've heard of layaway, but this is silly.

Marcus Aurelius: sweetmelissa31: Marcus Aurelius: jehovahs witness protection: Go back to grinding up dead babies to sprinkle on your salad, Soros.

I thought that was Kissinger.

All Jews do this.

That doesn't sound Kosher to me. I bet it was that Abraham dude that started this, wasn't it?

It isn't strictly kosher or non-kosher, a lot has to do with how things are prepared. You can't have ranch dressing on the salad, for instance.


Well that settles it then, I'm never going to be Jewish. It's just too complicated. The holidays alone are a nightmare.
 
2012-06-04 01:21:13 PM

Marcus Aurelius: fanbladesaresharp: The Maastricht Treaty was fundamentally flawed, demonstrating the fallibility of the authorities. Its main weakness was well known to its architects: it established a monetary union without a political union. The architects believed however, that when the need arose the political will could be generated to take the necessary steps towards a political union.

Hey Soros, were you not one of these silent "architects"? How is all that working for you. Maybe I'm biased but that whole screed read like an inflated backpedalling.

I was not aware that Soros set EU political or monetary policy. He seems pretty busy running his hedge fund.


He didn't set any. But has a hand "advising". Read anything he's written in the last 20 years. He's had sway in things.
 
2012-06-04 01:23:30 PM
If Soros and his ilk don't do something now, there will be no treasuries left to loot.
 
2012-06-04 01:23:38 PM

Snarfangel: cgraves67: And Germany will look down and whisper, "Nein."

Nein and a half!

Oh, wait, I thought Europe was already auctioning off their assets.

/I have my eye on a pretty Greek isle.


Word of warning: Lesbos is a bit of a misnomer and they don't have a return policy.
 
2012-06-04 01:25:20 PM

STRYPERSWINE: Soros-monkeys lol


img337.imageshack.us
 
2012-06-04 01:29:20 PM

umad: I'm torn on this. On one hand, Germany wasn't the one spending like crazy and not paying their taxes. On the other, they voluntarily gave Greece joint access to their checking account when they idiotically joined the EU in the first place. I guess I have no choice but to say fark them all.


Maybe this is naive but given Germany's track record in the past century or so, if you were them, would you have said no to the EU? How would Europe have reacted if the strongest economy and arguably, military (excluding Russia) at the time saying nein?
 
2012-06-04 01:29:53 PM

jehovahs witness protection: Go back to grinding up dead babies to sprinkle on your salad, Soros.


Dammit now I want infant-flavored Bac-Ohs.
 
2012-06-04 01:31:41 PM
Germany: "Damn, how did we miss that one?"
 
2012-06-04 01:32:12 PM
Looks like Soros bought a bunch of Euro's back in the day.
 
2012-06-04 01:35:51 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Well that settles it then, I'm never going to be Jewish. It's just too complicated. The holidays alone are a nightmare.


Go ahead, ignore your poor mother, the woman who brought you into the world and sacrificed everything for you. She didn't complain when you weren't a doctor or a lawyer, why would she mind if you refused to be a Jew? She didn't even complain when you refused to marry that nice Jewish girl she introduced you to, even though she was from a good family.

I mean, it wouldn't kill you to go to temple once in awhile, but I'm sure that you know better than your poor old mom. Now she will probably never have grandchildren.
 
2012-06-04 01:37:28 PM

neversubmit: Two world wars could not unite europe but economic warfare welfare can? If it works there, why not the whole of the world?


/FTFY
 
2012-06-04 01:45:52 PM

akula:
As for Soros, he may be a brilliant man, but he has a track record of acting in his own extreme self interest even if it means farking around with the currency of an entire nation... I wouldn't trust him any farther than I could throw his old dessicated ass.


He reminds me of the kind of person that takes stuff out of your garage then tells you it's your fault for leaving the door open.
 
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