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(Mother Nature Network)   Americans would never have to deal with the current bedbug epidemic if we would only legalize DDT   (mnn.com) divider line 82
    More: Obvious, DDT, Americans, epidemics, tropical climate  
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4689 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jun 2012 at 10:09 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-04 01:12:22 AM
It was legal in the U.S. until the ban in 1972. I suggest you look up "Silent Spring" and learn what DDT did to bird eggs, including those of the bald eagle. Use of DDT came close to making our national bird extinct.
 
2012-06-04 01:56:47 AM
I'm pretty sure mustard gas would kill bed bugs too. Letting people use it is a bad idea, though.
 
2012-06-04 02:17:34 AM
And how will we deal with the bald eagle epidemic?
 
2012-06-04 02:36:07 AM

violentsalvation: And how will we deal with the bald eagle epidemic?


I don't know, but I do know that it ends with a lot of dead gorillas come winter.
 
2012-06-04 02:52:26 AM

Bathia_Mapes: It was legal in the U.S. until the ban in 1972. I suggest you look up "Silent Spring" and learn what DDT did to bird eggs, including those of the bald eagle. Use of DDT came close to making our national bird extinct.


Of course, it had an unintended consequence: bird strikes on airplanes are on the rise because of the rebound of birds

/The moar you know
 
2012-06-04 02:52:29 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: violentsalvation: And how will we deal with the bald eagle epidemic?

I don't know, but I do know that it ends with a lot of dead gorillas come winter.



The velociraptors should take care of the rest of them by spring.
 
2012-06-04 02:55:12 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: violentsalvation: And how will we deal with the bald eagle epidemic?

I don't know, but I do know that it ends with a lot of dead gorillas come winter.


I would like to meet some gorillas someday, I bet they would shake my hand. Unlike those damn chimps who would rip my hand and face off.
 
2012-06-04 06:17:27 AM

cman: Bathia_Mapes: It was legal in the U.S. until the ban in 1972. I suggest you look up "Silent Spring" and learn what DDT did to bird eggs, including those of the bald eagle. Use of DDT came close to making our national bird extinct.

Of course, it had an unintended consequence: bird strikes on airplanes are on the rise because of the rebound of birds

/The moar you know


Less birds are dying from bird strikes than would be if DDT was still legal, since most of the higher level birds would be very close to extinct or actually extinct at this point.
 
2012-06-04 06:50:43 AM

violentsalvation: ecmoRandomNumbers: violentsalvation: And how will we deal with the bald eagle epidemic?

I don't know, but I do know that it ends with a lot of dead gorillas come winter.

I would like to meet some gorillas someday, I bet they would shake my hand. Unlike those damn chimps who would rip my hand and face off.


Chimps eat bedbugs. Can't you people see the circle of life here?
 
2012-06-04 07:23:26 AM

GAT_00: cman: Bathia_Mapes: It was legal in the U.S. until the ban in 1972. I suggest you look up "Silent Spring" and learn what DDT did to bird eggs, including those of the bald eagle. Use of DDT came close to making our national bird extinct.

Of course, it had an unintended consequence: bird strikes on airplanes are on the rise because of the rebound of birds

/The moar you know

Less birds are dying from bird strikes than would be if DDT was still legal, since most of the higher level birds would be very close to extinct or actually extinct at this point.


I was being facetious.
 
2012-06-04 09:15:58 AM
If I'm not mistaken, aren't modern bedbugs effectively immune to DDT anyway?
 
2012-06-04 09:16:49 AM
 
2012-06-04 09:55:00 AM

RexTalionis: If I'm not mistaken, aren't modern bedbugs effectively immune to DDT anyway?


Dammit! Foiled by less than one minute.

Although, I DID provide a link...
 
2012-06-04 10:11:10 AM
Just took a deer tick off my leg the other day.
Permethrin is my friend.

/Raid House and Garden, ftw.
//Insects that try to suck my blood lose all Geneva Convention protections.
 
2012-06-04 10:12:30 AM

Bathia_Mapes: It was legal in the U.S. until the ban in 1972. I suggest you look up "Silent Spring" and learn what DDT did to bird eggs, including those of the bald eagle. Use of DDT came close to making our national bird extinct.


Are there a lot of bald eagles in NYC and other major urban areas?
 
2012-06-04 10:12:34 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com

Agrees
 
2012-06-04 10:12:51 AM
img.thesun.co.uk


LEGALIZE IT!
 
2012-06-04 10:14:33 AM

Carth: Bathia_Mapes: It was legal in the U.S. until the ban in 1972. I suggest you look up "Silent Spring" and learn what DDT did to bird eggs, including those of the bald eagle. Use of DDT came close to making our national bird extinct.

Are there a lot of bald eagles in NYC and other major urban areas?


Not as many as there are DOWNSTREAM of major urban areas, which is where the DDT goes.
 
2012-06-04 10:14:46 AM
DMT is a natural substances.
lets get naked and huff paint
 
2012-06-04 10:17:48 AM

Grables'Daughter: Except what's most problematic is that bed bugs are resistant to DDT. So even if exterminators could have been using it all this time, it wouldn't have done anyone any good.


I'm not disagreeing but a website dedicated to promoting alternatives to pesticide isn't the best source. It misses the point that even if a specific chlorinated hydrocarbon (DDT) doesn't work we could likely make one that does if they were legal.
 
2012-06-04 10:18:38 AM
Well, we don't have malaria here anymore because of DDT.

I hate mosquitos and if means a few birds might go extinct, so be it
 
2012-06-04 10:18:42 AM
Stop letting dirty unwashed foreigners into the country.
 
2012-06-04 10:19:24 AM

pag1107: Carth: Bathia_Mapes: It was legal in the U.S. until the ban in 1972. I suggest you look up "Silent Spring" and learn what DDT did to bird eggs, including those of the bald eagle. Use of DDT came close to making our national bird extinct.

Are there a lot of bald eagles in NYC and other major urban areas?

Not as many as there are DOWNSTREAM of major urban areas, which is where the DDT goes.


Really? I thought they mostly lived out west not int he BosNyWash area. I never bothered to look at a map of their habitat.
 
2012-06-04 10:22:42 AM
The American love-affair with carpet in shiatty appartments and hotels is a large factor to blame. Carpet wastes a lot of resoures, is difficult to clean. Concrete with paint on it is a better choice.

But hey, carpet is a consumable and feeds the economy.
 
2012-06-04 10:26:54 AM
DDT is actually no longer effective against bed bugs. This was reported by the L.A. Times about 2-3 months ago. Turns out that a lot of bugs that DDT was used against are now resistant to it.

Sorry.
 
2012-06-04 10:32:46 AM

Bathia_Mapes: It was legal in the U.S. until the ban in 1972. I suggest you look up "Silent Spring" and learn what DDT did to bird eggs, including those of the bald eagle. Use of DDT came close to making our national bird extinct.

In 1962 Rachel Carson's lyrical yet scientifically flawed book Silent Spring was released. The book argued eloquently but erroneously that pesticides, and especially DDT, were poisoning both wildlife and the environment and also endangering human health.


Read this article: Link
 
2012-06-04 10:34:32 AM
Yay! Spotless apples & More parking lots!
 
2012-06-04 10:35:04 AM

doglover: I'm pretty sure mustard gas would kill bed bugs too. Letting people use it is a bad idea, though.


It's like a derivative of actual mustard. It's a food product, essentially.
 
2012-06-04 10:37:13 AM
A mosquito was heard to complain
That a chemist had poisoned his brain
The cause of his sorrow
Was paradichloro
Diphenyltrichloroethane.

/Relevant and the nerdiest limerick I know.
 
2012-06-04 10:38:12 AM

doglover: I'm pretty sure mustard gas would kill bed bugs too. Letting people use it is a bad idea, though.


Agent Orange would keep me from having to mow the lawn every week.
 
2012-06-04 10:38:46 AM
I really hate those little motherfarkers.

Nice troll there, subby.
 
2012-06-04 10:38:58 AM
 
2012-06-04 10:41:09 AM

Bathia_Mapes: It was legal in the U.S. until the ban in 1972. I suggest you look up "Silent Spring" and learn what DDT did to bird eggs, including those of the bald eagle. Use of DDT came close to making our national bird extinct.


But you'd only have to worry about the birds in hotel rooms.
 
2012-06-04 10:42:04 AM
DDT was a harmful pesticide when they used it indiscriminently via aerial spraying. I recall a truck going through neighbourhoods spraying a fog of DDT to control mosquitoes with kids running behind it. They should not have banned it completly. It is very efective in controling mosquitoes when applied indoors on walls. Malaria cases increased in South America after countries in that continent stopped using DDT. Research data shows a significantly strong negative relationship between DDT residual house sprayings and malaria rates. In a research from 1993 to 1995, Ecuador increased its use of DDT and resulted in a 61% reduction in malaria rates, while each of the other countries that gradually decreased its DDT use had large increase in malaria rates. South Africa is one country that continues to use DDT under WHO guidelines. In 1996, the country switched to alternative insecticides and malaria incidence increased dramatically. Returning to DDT and introducing new drugs brought malaria back under control.
 
2012-06-04 10:43:30 AM
What a great talking point. We should absolutely lift the ban on any chemical that has some positive use. I wonder if there is some other substance we've outlawed that has shown some ability to do something positive... to alleviate suffering if you will.....

I'd be willing to bet the same people who are wanting to lift the ban on DDT because it's a cheap pesticide it helps with bedbugs are also completely against legalization of marijuana, despite its known medical benefits to cancer patients. It's almost as if they aren't being logically consistent with their arguments.
 
2012-06-04 10:44:41 AM

cman: GAT_00: cman: Bathia_Mapes: It was legal in the U.S. until the ban in 1972. I suggest you look up "Silent Spring" and learn what DDT did to bird eggs, including those of the bald eagle. Use of DDT came close to making our national bird extinct.

Of course, it had an unintended consequence: bird strikes on airplanes are on the rise because of the rebound of birds

/The moar you know

Less birds are dying from bird strikes than would be if DDT was still legal, since most of the higher level birds would be very close to extinct or actually extinct at this point.

I was being facetious.


Pat yourself on the back for a successful application of Poe's Law, even if unintended +1
 
2012-06-04 10:54:55 AM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: What a great talking point. We should absolutely lift the ban on any chemical that has some positive use. I wonder if there is some other substance we've outlawed that has shown some ability to do something positive... to alleviate suffering if you will.....

I'd be willing to bet the same people who are wanting to lift the ban on DDT because it's a cheap pesticide it helps with bedbugs are also completely against legalization of marijuana, despite its known medical benefits to cancer patients. It's almost as if they aren't being logically consistent with their arguments.


marijuana HAS NO BENEFITS
and i know because when i'm under the influence i'm not myself.
i eat more and don't go to the gym as much
 
2012-06-04 10:55:28 AM
I cannot believe that there are people here who are actually advocating the return of DDT. It is a horrible toxin and a powerful carcinogen. All I can guess is that those advocating weren't alive before the ban.

frank249: I recall a truck going through neighbourhoods spraying a fog of DDT to control mosquitoes with kids running behind it.


Yes, I remember this. And I know now that the kids who did this have much higher rates of cancer and having children with birth defects.

There are much better and eco-friendly ways of controlling mosquitos than pesticides. I used to work on a campus on the coast that had a lot of fresh water sloughs in the woods. The mosquito problem there was very bad. Arial spraying of pesticide didn't work. Then the county's mosquito abatement program enlisted the help of a invertebrate zoologist at the local university. His solution: place Gambusia holbrooki, the eastern mosquitofish, in the sloughs. It worked like a charm.
 
2012-06-04 10:56:05 AM
As mentioned previously, the insecticides we use now are similar in mechanism to DDT, just not nearly as dangerous to everything else. Bringing back DDT won't work, and will just bring back the harmful side effects. Once an insect becomes resistant to a certain mechanism of action, you can't go full herpaderp and expect a product using the same mechanism to work better, just because it did in the past. Failmitter and those who agree need to do a little bit of research before claiming they know better than actual experts.

/Sodium ion channels, how do they work?
//I wonder if there is correlation between people who think bringing back DDT would work and people who don't understand/believe in evolution.
 
2012-06-04 10:56:22 AM
Wherever there's mexicans, there's bedbugs.
 
2012-06-04 10:59:11 AM

Grables'Daughter: RexTalionis: If I'm not mistaken, aren't modern bedbugs effectively immune to DDT anyway?

Dammit! Foiled by less than one minute.

Although, I DID provide a link...


It's not a competition, GD.

/Although if it was, I'd still totally win.
 
2012-06-04 11:02:18 AM

frank249: DDT was a harmful pesticide when they used it indiscriminently via aerial spraying. I recall a truck going through neighbourhoods spraying a fog of DDT to control mosquitoes with kids running behind it. They should not have banned it completly. It is very efective in controling mosquitoes when applied indoors on walls. Malaria cases increased in South America after countries in that continent stopped using DDT. Research data shows a significantly strong negative relationship between DDT residual house sprayings and malaria rates. In a research from 1993 to 1995, Ecuador increased its use of DDT and resulted in a 61% reduction in malaria rates, while each of the other countries that gradually decreased its DDT use had large increase in malaria rates. South Africa is one country that continues to use DDT under WHO guidelines. In 1996, the country switched to alternative insecticides and malaria incidence increased dramatically. Returning to DDT and introducing new drugs brought malaria back under control.


Exactly this. We farked up by spraying the damn stuff everywhere. Not only did this make the bugs much more rapidly resistant, it didn't work as well as small local applications... and small local applications are more effective anyway!

So we used it in the most dangerous and least effective way possible. Thus destroying ecosystems without fully destroying the intended target. Ending the ban now would be useless, and it was put in place far too late anyway. And developing something new won't solve the problem because there's no easy way to keep people from spraying it indiscriminately.

Human stupidity is infinite.
 
2012-06-04 11:12:10 AM
Bathia_Mapes

It was legal in the U.S. until the ban in 1972. I suggest you look up "Silent Spring" and learn what DDT did to bird eggs, including those of the bald eagle. Use of DDT came close to making our national bird extinct.

I suggest you look up how that book is a complete fraud based on ZERO facts. The author is a complete fraud, right up there with Spoon benders and Dowzers.
Wrongful ban on DDT costs lives
www.upl.co


But hey DDT ban kills brown people so of course you are all for it.
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-06-04 11:14:16 AM
If you want DDT band, it's because you hate black people.
http://rachelwaswrong.org/

Sorry I just had to troll this one.
 
2012-06-04 11:16:51 AM

MonoChango: If you want DDT band


Huh?!?!?
 
2012-06-04 11:24:51 AM

OnlyM3: Bathia_Mapes

It was legal in the U.S. until the ban in 1972. I suggest you look up "Silent Spring" and learn what DDT did to bird eggs, including those of the bald eagle. Use of DDT came close to making our national bird extinct.
I suggest you look up how that book is a complete fraud based on ZERO facts. The author is a complete fraud, right up there with Spoon benders and Dowzers.
Wrongful ban on DDT costs lives
[www.upl.co image 640x188]

But hey DDT ban kills brown people so of course you are all for it.
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 250x400]


From wiki:

Defenders of the book argue that Carson was sensitive to the problem of "insect-borne disease" and Silent Spring never called for the banning of DDT;[25] that when DDT stopped being used to fight malaria it was because mosquitoes had become resistant to it;[26][27] and that DDT was never banned by the US government or international treaty for use against malaria (its ban for agricultural use in the United States in 1972 did not apply outside the US or to anti-malaria spraying, the international treaty that did ban most uses of DDT and other organochlorine pesticides - the 2001 Stockholm Convention on Persistent Organic Pollutants - included an exemption for DDT for the use of malaria control until affordable substitutes could be found.[27])


Any rebuttal?
 
2012-06-04 11:27:11 AM

Grables'Daughter: Except what's most problematic is that bed bugs are resistant to DDT. So even if exterminators could have been using it all this time, it wouldn't have done anyone any good.


THIS.

I seriously don't get the whargarbl on "OHNOES WE NEED TO RE-LEGALISE DDT TO KILL TEH BEDBUGS!!!!11one!":

a) DDT was only banned in 1972 and ONLY in the US--other countries did and have continued to use it, and the very countries that are most associated with the return of bedbugs to the US are in fact among the few countries still legally allowed to use it (primarily for mosquito control nowadays, but it also tends to be licensed in those countries for persistent applications in homes).

b) DDT resistance started showing up widely in bedbugs not terribly long after DDT was banned in the US (and with it still being in active use and license in tropical countries, where the "bedbug plague" hails from) and in fact was documented in Hawaii as early as 1948. (Bedbugs tend to be supremely lucky as insects at being able to develop resistance to insecticides fairly quickly, and in ways that tend to be notoriously difficult to overcome.)

c) The REAL heroes (as far as chemicals go) for initially eliminating bedbug infestations in the US were in fact lindane and malathion--both of which are still licensed for home use and even direct application on humans in the US (lindane and malathion are in fact used as second- and third-line treatment for lice in humans). Unfortunately, again, the issue is that bedbugs develop resistance to chemical insecticides rapidly and they have become resistant to these as well as permethrins (one of the other two common families of insecticides and insect-preventatives in the US, the other being the avemectrins; the latter are growth and molting inhibitors more than insecticides proper).
 
2012-06-04 11:29:51 AM
Never let effectiveness stand in the way of a good junk science based ban.
 
2012-06-04 11:35:40 AM

Bathia_Mapes: It was legal in the U.S. until the ban in 1972. I suggest you look up "Silent Spring" and learn what DDT did to bird eggs, including those of the bald eagle. Use of DDT came close to making our national bird extinct.


www.tedhickman.com
 
jvl
2012-06-04 11:46:01 AM

OnlyM3: I suggest you look up how that book is a complete fraud based on ZERO facts. The author is a complete fraud, right up there with Spoon benders and Dowzers.


Bullcrap. It's obvious to even casual observers that birds were wiped out, and are coming back well finally.

Also, there are plenty of fine pesticides available to use which don't last forever in the ecosystem. Use any one of them to get the same useful effect as DDT.
 
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