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(AlterNet)   "Good News" clubs teach children in public schools the Biblical importance of killing all nonbelievers   (blogs.alternet.org) divider line 413
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14542 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jun 2012 at 11:41 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-04 12:52:19 AM
0Icky0: BronyMedic: Oh please. Tell me more about Hitler's love for Christianity. I'm curious to see how much revisionist history you can get in.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)


http://www.scribd.com/doc/36145204/Hitler-s-Table-Talk-Troubling-Find s

"When one thinks of the opinions held concerning Christianity by our best minds a hundred, two hundred years ago, one is ashamed to realise how little we have since evolved. I didn't know that Julian the Apostate had passed judgment with such clear-sightedness on Christianity and Christians.... the Galilean, who later was called the Christ, intended something quite different. He must be regarded as a popular leader who took up His position against Jewry... and it's certain that Jesus was not a Jew. The Jews, by the way, regarded Him as the son of a whore-of a whore and a Roman soldier. The decisive falsification of Jesus's doctrine was the work of St. Paul.... Paul of Tarsus (his name was Saul, before the road to Damascus) was one of those who persecuted Jesus most savagely

We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany. - Adolf Hitler

http://books.google.com/books?id=_v59p5CDNa8C&pg=PA100#v=onepage&q&f= f alse

Publically, Hitler used predominant Christian sentiments against Jews which had prevailed in Europe for thousands of years. Privately, he despised Christianity and all it stood for. His plan was to replace it with a Nationalistic Occultism based on the Aryan and German mythos he created. Why do you think that there were pseudo-religious runes and symbols in almost everything the Nazis minted, printed, and fought with?
 
2012-06-04 12:53:09 AM
Let's see.

Fark has a Christian troll, a Jewish troll, a homosexual troll, a sports troll...

Can a brother get a Muslim troll? Come on!
 
2012-06-04 12:53:20 AM

Rreal: the witch burnings, Salem, the Inquisition, all the millions of south american natives converted at swordpoint, the crusades


And in what way where they observing the teachings of Christ when they committed these acts (many who were charged with witchcraft for realizing the bible conflicted with the teachings of "The Church".

It's not really effective to say, but the truth is, people that do this shiat are wrong about what Christianity is, whether they think so or not. Lots of people claim to be patriots, too.
 
2012-06-04 12:53:28 AM
intelligent comment below: I'm not a troll,

That's the funniest comment of the entire thread.
 
2012-06-04 12:54:10 AM

BronyMedic: intelligent comment below: citation needed

Maybe you'd to hear it direct from the Office of the Strategic Services' own report on Nazi Persecution of Religion during the Second World War.

http://org.law.rutgers.edu/publications/law-religion/articles/RJLR_3_ 1 _2.pdf

"This study describes, with illustrative factual evidence, Nazi purposes, policies and methods of persecution of the Christian Churches in Germany and occupied Europe." This study is important not only as a justification for the strategy adopted in subsequent trial briefs, but also for its elucidation of "criminal organisational" elements of religious persecution within, for example, Goebels Ministry of Propaganda

intelligent comment below: No, why don't you tell me about his hate for it? I'm waiting on the links

http://org.law.rutgers.edu/publications/law-religion/nurinst1.shtml

I expect an apology for your stupidity. Doubt I'll get it.



Apology for what? You have yet to address the topic at hand.

Tell me more about Hitler's love for Christianity. I'm curious to see how much revisionist history you can get in.

And this post does a better job than you:

0Icky0: BronyMedic: Oh please. Tell me more about Hitler's love for Christianity. I'm curious to see how much revisionist history you can get in.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

 
2012-06-04 12:55:09 AM

0Icky0: BronyMedic: Oh please. Tell me more about Hitler's love for Christianity. I'm curious to see how much revisionist history you can get in.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)



He's just going to make up some excuse and post more links to his examples of the Nazi party persecuting some Christian churches that he viewed as threats to his party all as proof the Nazi party wasn't Christian.
 
2012-06-04 12:55:14 AM
s2s2s2: And in what way where they observing the teachings of Christ when they committed these acts (many who were charged with witchcraft for realizing the bible conflicted with the teachings of "The Church".

Which is an incredibly good point to make. The Church, before the bible was widely available as translated into the language of the common people, would frequently alter the Latin texts as it was needed to support the policies of the Church. Even after the text was translated, the practice was continued in the release of "new, better translated" books.

Hell, the Church of England pulled a huge hat trick on the Catholics by releasing it's own bible supportive of the doctrines it had.
 
2012-06-04 12:56:15 AM

sharpiegreed: When I was Agnostic, I was attacked by Athiests for believing in something other than nothing


1) This never happened.

sharpiegreed: Just because some Christians are crazy and fanatical doesn't mean every Christian is crazy and fanatical.


2) Yeah maybe, but you're not doing enough to shun and/or punish the batshiat fanatics hijacking your religion. And as long as your group tolerates a subset that intends to force its ideals upon every citizen of the world, I'm going to have to say: fark you, fark your religion and the christ you rode in on.
 
2012-06-04 12:57:11 AM

BronyMedic: Privately, he despised Christianity and all it stood for.



Still more baseless accusations without facts.

You linked to persecution of some churches he viewed as threats to the party. That has nothing to do with his well quoted speeches and links with Christianity and his views of fighting for "God"
 
2012-06-04 12:57:14 AM

TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see.

Fark has a Christian troll, a Jewish troll, a homosexual troll, a sports troll...

Can a brother get a Muslim troll? Come on!


I propose he be named Admiral Allah Akbar!
 
2012-06-04 12:58:13 AM
intelligent comment below: Apology for what? You have yet to address the topic at hand.

Tell me more about Hitler's love for Christianity. I'm curious to see how much revisionist history you can get in.

And this post does a better job than you:


Now, I expect an apology for your incredible avoidance of the question, and your disingenuous use of Cherry Picking to ignore the facts.

Atleast Bevets can make things up.

Bravo, Sir. I stand in awe of your incredible ignorance of the topic at hand. Now, if the previous threads you've trolled in are any indication, you'll start calling me bad names and dropping f-bombs because you have nothing else to argue with.
 
2012-06-04 12:58:16 AM
Christianity, the so-called "religion of peace", is at it again.
 
2012-06-04 12:58:19 AM

BronyMedic: Why do you think that there were pseudo-religious runes and symbols in almost everything the Nazis minted, printed, and fought with?


Pseudo-religious? As opposed to what?

Did Hitler fight against the churches? Certainly. They were a competing power base.
But there is no logical reason to hate the Jews, other than a reason that is based in Christianity (or Islam). The same "reason" that Martin Luther was afflicted with. Or are you going to say that that vile anti-Semite Martin Luther was not a Christian?
 
2012-06-04 12:58:38 AM

TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see.

Fark has a Christian troll, a Jewish troll, a homosexual troll, a sports troll...

Can a brother get a Muslim troll? Come on!


That's what alts are for Occam, troll away
 
2012-06-04 12:59:55 AM

TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see.

Fark has a Christian troll, a Jewish troll, a homosexual troll, a sports troll...

Can a brother get a Muslim troll? Come on!


I do seem to recall that a few days after that disputed Iranian election, someone made a troll account where he pretended to be Ayatollah Khamenii (sp?). Although I think outside of the Iran threads, he was openly atheist (and in one thread managed to piss off a bunch of evangelical Christians using nothing but "Star Wars" quotes).
 
2012-06-04 01:00:20 AM

intelligent comment below: sharpiegreed: intelligent comment below: sharpiegreed: Just because some Christians are crazy and fanatical doesn't mean every Christian is crazy and fanatical.


Funny because this was the same argument many people said about Islam after 9/11, and the response was "well then they should condemn the terrorist extremists and do everything to shut them up"

So lets do this, get them out of your organization.

I wouldn't say it is an argument, more like my personal opinion. I don't feel the need to argue with someone about their beliefs. When I was Agnostic, I was attacked by Athiests for believing in something other than nothing and by Christians for not believing in God. Nothing either group said changed how I felt.

My contribution begins with my son. My hope is to raise him as a compassionate and intelligent man. To teach him about the world and let him choose his own path and support his decisions.
I would also like to add being a Christian and being open-minded are not mutually exclusive. I love sex, booze, and rock and roll. I support gay marriage, vote Democrat, and curse. I've smoked a little weed. I have friends of all walks of life. And if I didn't, that would be okay too. I'm not defined by a single decision or belief. And I won't define you (the collective you) either.

Unless you are a troll ;)


I'm not a troll, I'm just trying to show this viewpoint was demanded upon moderate Muslims since 9/11 and it's of course impossible to do.

You seem like an okay guy/girl


Girl. And thanks. I was just teasing. And I agree.
 
2012-06-04 01:00:27 AM
I love how you mention to a Christian that the first five books of the bible are also the first five books of the Quran and they are all like but but but the Muslims. And in my King James version it says right there "Five Books of Moses" which is also the first five books of the Quran. They call it the Torah if I am correct.

And the whole genocide thing, when Moses came down with the commandments and seen the golden calf, throwing down the tablets it was either him or Joshua that called out "which of you stand alongside Moses and God?" and it was something like the house of Judah and the Levites who came to stand beside him and the rest? Well they weren't cast out into the wilderness, I do believe that God commanded them to kill every last one of them even down to their pet goldfish.
 
2012-06-04 01:01:16 AM

FirstNationalBastard: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see.

Fark has a Christian troll, a Jewish troll, a homosexual troll, a sports troll...

Can a brother get a Muslim troll? Come on!

I propose he be named Admiral Allah Akbar!


It's a trap bin trap!
 
2012-06-04 01:01:19 AM
intelligent comment below: Still more baseless accusations without facts.

http://books.google.com/books?id=KuiPXOje7EkC&pg=PA20#v=onepage&q&f=f a lse

As Gobbels commented in 1939, The Fuhur is deeply religious but entirely Anti-Christian

Please. Continue trolling. Your rage amuses me.
 
2012-06-04 01:02:47 AM

BronyMedic: intelligent comment below: I'm not a troll,

That's the funniest comment of the entire thread.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany#Nazi_Attitudes_ t owards_Christianity

A number of historians maintain that the Nazis had a general covert plan, which some argue existed before the Nazis' rose to power,[53] to destroy Christianity within the Reich.[54][55][56][57][58][59][60] To what extent a plan to subordinate the churches and limit their role in the country's life existed before the Nazi rise to power, and exactly who among the Nazi leadership supported such a move remains contested."[53] However other historians maintain no such plan existed
 
2012-06-04 01:03:29 AM

BronyMedic: intelligent comment below: Still more baseless accusations without facts.

http://books.google.com/books?id=KuiPXOje7EkC&pg=PA20#v=onepage&q&f=f a lse

As Gobbels commented in 1939, The Fuhur is deeply religious but entirely Anti-Christian

Please. Continue trolling. Your rage amuses me.



I'll repeat this just for amusement. Speaking of ignorance and trolling


A number of historians maintain that the Nazis had a general covert plan, which some argue existed before the Nazis' rose to power,[53] to destroy Christianity within the Reich.[54][55][56][57][58][59][60] To what extent a plan to subordinate the churches and limit their role in the country's life existed before the Nazi rise to power, and exactly who among the Nazi leadership supported such a move remains contested."[53] However other historians maintain no such plan existed
 
2012-06-04 01:04:10 AM

TheShavingofOccam123: FirstNationalBastard: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see.

Fark has a Christian troll, a Jewish troll, a homosexual troll, a sports troll...

Can a brother get a Muslim troll? Come on!

I propose he be named Admiral Allah Akbar!

It's a trap bin trap!


i6.photobucket.com
 
2012-06-04 01:04:18 AM

anfrind: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see.

Fark has a Christian troll, a Jewish troll, a homosexual troll, a sports troll...

Can a brother get a Muslim troll? Come on!

I do seem to recall that a few days after that disputed Iranian election, someone made a troll account where he pretended to be Ayatollah Khamenii (sp?). Although I think outside of the Iran threads, he was openly atheist (and in one thread managed to piss off a bunch of evangelical Christians using nothing but "Star Wars" quotes).


That's what's interesting. The other ones I mentioned are pretty much Fark institutions (shhh...let's not talk about osting-pay iolations-pay). I just don't understand why there isn't an institutional Muslim oll-tray.
 
2012-06-04 01:04:42 AM

intelligent comment below: BronyMedic: Privately, he despised Christianity and all it stood for.


Still more baseless accusations without facts.

You linked to persecution of some churches he viewed as threats to the party. That has nothing to do with his well quoted speeches and links with Christianity and his views of fighting for "God"


I took two Nazi history classes in college (state university, not some bible college) and remember a distinct overall understanding that, certainly by the time of WWII, Hitler was vigorously opposed to Christian churches because they offered something besides the German blood and soil to worship.

////Flame on.
 
2012-06-04 01:04:59 AM
Let's see... Debate about the role of Christianity during the holocaust and no mention of:
1) Britain, USA, and France every bit as nationally Christian as Germany,
2) The life story and writing of Dietrich Bonhoffer, which would reveal how far off the reservation of Nicene Christianity the Lutheran Church in Germany went during Nazification.

Farmers, I am disappoint.
 
2012-06-04 01:05:32 AM
0Icky0: Pseudo-religious? As opposed to what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_the_Twentieth_Century

0Icky0: Did Hitler fight against the churches? Certainly. They were a competing power base.
But there is no logical reason to hate the Jews, other than a reason that is based in Christianity (or Islam). The same "reason" that Martin Luther was afflicted with. Or are you going to say that that vile anti-Semite Martin Luther was not a Christian?


Hitler used them as a tool, mainly because the anti-semetic sentiments which he built his empire upon were Christian. The Church, especially the Catholic Church, posed a threat to him in the long run quest for a thousand year Reich. After all, once he was done with the Jews and undesirables, who else would step up to defend the racially impure, predominantly Catholic Italians when it was their turn for the Chambers.
 
2012-06-04 01:06:14 AM

0Icky0: BronyMedic: Oh please. Tell me more about Hitler's love for Christianity. I'm curious to see how much revisionist history you can get in.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)


I know this is hard for many people to grasp, but sometimes politicians say things just to make themselves popular. Hard to beleive, I know. It turns out that Hitler lied once in a while...

Seriously, if you know nothing about the Nazi supression of Christianity in the Third Reich then you are basically just ignorant about that history. Any decent book on that subject will make that clear-- not that the German Christian churches' record during the Third Reich leaves much to brag about. For the most part, they wanted to prove how loyal and useful they were to the new Germany. There were exceptions-- important ones-- but sadly, they were exceptions. Ultimately, the Nazis regarding Christianity as having the stink of Jewishness, and intended to eventually do away with it alltogether.

//So yeah 0Icky0, fark you!
 
2012-06-04 01:06:41 AM

intelligent comment below: BronyMedic: intelligent comment below: Still more baseless accusations without facts.

http://books.google.com/books?id=KuiPXOje7EkC&pg=PA20#v=onepage&q&f=f a lse

As Gobbels commented in 1939, The Fuhur is deeply religious but entirely Anti-Christian

Please. Continue trolling. Your rage amuses me.


I'll repeat this just for amusement. Speaking of ignorance and trolling


A number of historians maintain that the Nazis had a general covert plan, which some argue existed before the Nazis' rose to power,[53] to destroy Christianity within the Reich.[54][55][56][57][58][59][60] To what extent a plan to subordinate the churches and limit their role in the country's life existed before the Nazi rise to power, and exactly who among the Nazi leadership supported such a move remains contested."[53] However other historians maintain no such plan existed


I think they liked baby steps.

They went to work on the Jews and a few other undesirables first but their long term plans meant to repeat the Holocaust on other groups. The Slavs for one. But first the Jews and a couple other groups.
 
2012-06-04 01:07:06 AM

notatrollorami: intelligent comment below: BronyMedic: Privately, he despised Christianity and all it stood for.


Still more baseless accusations without facts.

You linked to persecution of some churches he viewed as threats to the party. That has nothing to do with his well quoted speeches and links with Christianity and his views of fighting for "God"

I took two Nazi history classes in college (state university, not some bible college) and remember a distinct overall understanding that, certainly by the time of WWII, Hitler was vigorously opposed to Christian churches because they offered something besides the German blood and soil to worship.

////Flame on.


Hitler was opposed to certain sects of Christianity and anyone he viewed as dangerous to his authority. The Nazi party was forced to be pro-Christian by his wishes until the end.

This covers it well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany#Nazi_Attitudes_ t owards_Christianity
 
2012-06-04 01:07:15 AM
intelligent comment below: I'll repeat this just for amusement. Speaking of ignorance and trolling

So your evidence that Hitler loved Christianity was that some historians debate his plans for genocide after World War II?

Careful with that much straw, you might pose a fire hazard.
 
2012-06-04 01:08:17 AM

A Non Amos: Scientific method

Radiocarbon datingNotice the need for calibration.

Please explainby present (known) processes.

Absolute: science doesn't know anything precisely is invalid. Science is a useful tool to explain many phenomena of the natural world.

What the scientific method cannot be applied to, and what cannot be studied at present, must be guessed at, thus making it a philosophy.

Refutations?


Prove it.
 
2012-06-04 01:08:22 AM

LindyJohn: Ultimately, the Nazis regarding Christianity as having the stink of Jewishness, and intended to eventually do away with it alltogether.



You have no actual historical basis for this argument, it's just something repeated by Christians like BronyMedic to not address the evil their religion has done in the past and not accept it.
 
2012-06-04 01:09:45 AM

BronyMedic: intelligent comment below: I'll repeat this just for amusement. Speaking of ignorance and trolling

So your evidence that Hitler loved Christianity was that some historians debate his plans for genocide after World War II?

Careful with that much straw, you might pose a fire hazard.



excuse me? You posted historically inaccurate links and made false accusations with no evidence at all.

I'll post the entire section here for you to build a new strawman to hide behind just because you can't admit the Nazi party was Christian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany#Nazi_Attitudes_ t owards_Christianity

Nazi Attitudes towards Christianity

Many Nazis promoted positive Christianity a militant, non-denominational form of Christianity which emphasized Christ as an active fighter and anti-semite who opposed the institutionalized Judaism of his day.[35] Even in the later years of the Third Reich, many Protestant and Catholic clergy within Germany persisted in believing that Nazism was in its essence in accordance with Christian precepts.[36]

The Nazi leadership made use of both Christian symbolism, indigenous Germanic pagan imagery, and ancient Roman symbolism in their propaganda. However the use of pagan symbolism worried some Protestants.[37] Many Nazi leaders, including Adolf Hitler,[38] subscribed either to a mixture of pseudoscientific theories, particularly Social Darwinism,[39] or to mysticism and occultism, which was especially strong in the SS.[citation needed] Central to both groupings was the belief in Germanic (white Northern-European) racial superiority. The existence of a Ministry of Church Affairs, instituted in 1935 and headed by Hanns Kerrl, was hardly recognized by ideologists such as Alfred Rosenberg or by other political decision-makers.[citation needed]

In a confidential message to the Gauleiter on June 9, 1941, Martin Bormann, had declared that "National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable."[40] He also declared that the Churches influence in the leadership of the people "must absolutely and finally be broken." Bormann believed Nazism was based on a "scientific" world-view, and was completely incompatible with Christianity.[40] Bormann stated:

When we [National Socialists] speak of belief in God, we do not mean, like the naive Christians and their spiritual exploiters, a man-like being sitting around somewhere in the universe. The force governed by natural law by which all these countless planets move in the universe, we call omnipotence or God. The assertion that this universal force can trouble itself about the destiny of each individual being, every smallest earthly bacillus, can be influenced by so-called prayers or other surprising things, depends upon a requisite dose of naivety or else upon shameless professional self-interest.[41]

During the war Alfred Rosenberg formulated a thirty-point program for the National Reich Church, which included:

The National Reich Church claims exclusive right and control over all Churches.
The National Church is determined to exterminate foreign Christian faiths imported into Germany in the ill-omened year 800.
The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the Bible.
The National Church will clear away from its altars all Crucifixes, Bibles and pictures of Saints.
On the altars there must be nothing but Mein Kampf and to the left of the altar a sword.[42]

Some Nazis, like Alfred Rosenberg and Martin Bormann, viewed Christianity and National Socialism as competing world views. However other Nazis like Dietrich Eckart and Walter Buch, saw them as part of the same movement.[43]

From the mid 1930s, anti-Christian elements within the Nazi party became more prominent, however they were restrained by Hitler. In 1937 all Confessing Church seminaries and teaching was banned. Dissident Protestants were forbidden to attend universities. During Hitler's dictatorship, more than 6,000 clergymen, on the charge of treasonable activity, were imprisoned or executed.[38] The same measures were taken in the occupied territories, in French Lorraine, the Nazis forbid religious youth movements, parish meetings, scout meetings, and church assets were taken. Church schools were closed, and teachers in religious orders were dismissed. The episcopal seminary was closed, and the SA and SS desecrated churches, religious statutes and pictures. 300 clergy were expelled from the Lorraine region, monks and nuns were deported or forced to renounce their vows.[44]
Nazi policy towards the Churches

Soon after their takeover of power in Germany, the Nazi government resumed talks with the Holy See concerning the establishment of a concordat. Previously, concordats, regulating the relation between the Catholic Church and the state, had been established in Bavaria (1924), Prussia (1929) and Baden (1932), but talks had failed on a federal level for several reasons. This attempt achieved the signing of the Reichskonkordat on July 20, 1933.

Like the idea of the Reichskonkordat, the notion of a Protestant Reich Church, which would unify the Protestant Churches, also had been considered previously.[45] Hitler had discussed the matter as early as 1927 with Ludwig Müller, who was at that time the military chaplain of Königsberg.[45]
Further information: Kirchenkampf

The opposition of many adherents of traditional religions to Nazism is only one side of the issue.[46] Within the Lutheran Churches in Germany, the most prominent members of the Bekennende Kirche (Confessing Church), Martin Niemöller and Dietrich Bonhoeffer, opposed Nazism. They rejected the Nazi efforts to meld volkisch principles with traditional Lutheran doctrine.[47] They were, however, (as of 1932) in the minority within the Protestant church bodies in Germany, compared to the Deutsche Christen (German Christians), who supported National Socialism and cooperated with the Nazis. But in 1933, a number of Deutsche Christen left the movement after a November speech by Reinhold Krause that urged, among other things, the rejection of the Old Testament as Jewish superstition.[48] However, even the "Confessing Church made frequent declarations of loyalty to Hitler".[49]

The resistance of churches against the Nazis was the longest lasting and most bitter of any German institution.[50] The Nazis weakened the churches' resistance from within and a significant number of the clergy, particularly Protestant, supported National Socialism, but the Nazis had not yet succeeded in taking control of the churches, evidenced by the thousands of clergy sent to concentration camps.[51] The Catholic Church was particularly suppressed in Poland: between 1939 and 1945, an estimated 3,000 members (18%) of the Polish clergy, were murdered; of these, 1,992 died in concentration camps.[52] In the annexed territory of Reichsgau Wartheland it was even more harsh: churches were systematically closed and most priests were either killed, imprisoned, or deported to the General Government. Eighty per cent of the Catholic clergy and five bishops of Warthegau were sent to concentration camps in 1939; 108 of them are regarded as blessed martyrs.[52] Religious persecution was not confined to Poland: in Dachau concentration camp alone, 2,600 Catholic priests from 24 different countries were killed.[52]

A number of historians maintain that the Nazis had a general covert plan, which some argue existed before the Nazis' rose to power,[53] to destroy Christianity within the Reich.[54][55][56][57][58][59][60] To what extent a plan to subordinate the churches and limit their role in the country's life existed before the Nazi rise to power, and exactly who among the Nazi leadership supported such a move remains contested."[53] However other historians maintain no such plan existed.[61][62][63][64] Summarizing a 1945 Office of Strategic Services report, New York Times columnist Joe Sharkey, stated that the Nazis had a plan to "subvert and destroy German Christianity," which was to be accomplished through control and subversion of the churches and to be completed after the war.[65][66] However the report stated this goal was limmited to a "sector of the National Socialist party," namely Alfred Rosenberg and Baldur von Schirach.[67] Historian Roger Griffin maintains: "There is no doubt that in the long run Nazi leaders such as Hitler and Himmler intended to eradicate Christianity just as ruthlessly as any other rival ideology, even if in the short term they had to be content to make compromises with it."[68]

However, since 2003 this view has been challenged.[69][70] In his study The Holy Reich, the historian Richard Steigmann-Gall comes to the conclusion that Christianity, "in the final analysis, did not constitute a barrier to Nazism." Furthermore, he comments on the reason why Nazism is quite often seen as the opposite of Christianity:

"What we suppose Nazism must surely have been about usually tells us as much about contemporary societies as about the past purportedly under review. The insistence that Nazism was an anti-Christian movement has been one of the most enduring truisms of the past fifty years.... Exploring the possibility that many Nazis regarded themselves as Christian would have decisively undermined the myths of the Cold War and the regeneration of the German nation ... Nearly all Western societies retain a sense of Christian identity to this day.... That Nazism as the world-historical metaphor for human evil and wickedness should in some way have been related to Christianity can therefore be regarded by many only as unthinkable."[71]

Steigmann-Gall's views, however, run against the general consensus on the subject.[72]
 
2012-06-04 01:09:58 AM

JudgeItoBox: sharpiegreed: When I was Agnostic, I was attacked by Athiests for believing in something other than nothing

1) This never happened.

sharpiegreed: Just because some Christians are crazy and fanatical doesn't mean every Christian is crazy and fanatical.

2) Yeah maybe, but you're not doing enough to shun and/or punish the batshiat fanatics hijacking your religion. And as long as your group tolerates a subset that intends to force its ideals upon every citizen of the world, I'm going to have to say: fark you, fark your religion and the christ you rode in on.


1. Yes, it did. I dated an Athiest for seven years who regularly gave me shiat for being Agnostic. Not jokingly either.
2. Shun and punish? What would satisfy this BDSM fantasy? A ball gag? A flogging?
 
2012-06-04 01:10:36 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: This thread is a Godwin waiting to happen

/is that a Godwin in itself?


Hey, if the hob-nailed boot fits...........................
 
2012-06-04 01:11:28 AM

sharpiegreed: 1. Yes, it did. I dated an Athiest for seven years who regularly gave me shiat for being Agnostic. Not jokingly either.
2. Shun and punish? What would satisfy this BDSM fantasy? A ball gag? A flogging?


Perhaps the shiat that your ex-boyfriend gave you. Was he by any chance German?
 
2012-06-04 01:12:19 AM
This thread:

bloggingblue.com
 
2012-06-04 01:13:05 AM

BronyMedic: Why do you think that there were pseudo-religious runes and symbols in almost everything the Nazis minted, printed, and fought with?


www.nobeliefs.com
www.nobeliefs.com
German Christian Movement Badge
www.nobeliefs.com
German Chaplin visor with christian cross.

""National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of a real Christianity . . . For their interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of today, in our fight against a Bolshevist culture, against atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for a consciousness of a community in our national life . . . These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles!" -Adolph Hitler, Koblenz, August 26, 1934-
 
2012-06-04 01:13:18 AM

LindyJohn: Seriously, if you know nothing about the Nazi supression of Christianity in the Third Reich then you are basically just ignorant about that history.


Suppression of the powerful church and suppression of "weak and flabby" versions of Christianity. Absolutely no question about it.
But then he was following (and creating) the new and improved Nazi version of Christianity. In that, he was following a long line of creators of new and improved versions.
The only reason that you say his version is false is that he lost.

/Hint: They're all false.
 
2012-06-04 01:16:59 AM

Ambivalence: Someone please tell me this is an exaggeration.

Someone? Please?


Sorry, but its an understatement if anything. The article left out the call to the faithful to send kids into the military to learn skills for 'the coming christian revolution', and skipped right over the call to reproduce to help 'repopulate the white race'.

/these farkers are scary
 
2012-06-04 01:17:09 AM

intelligent comment below: LindyJohn: Ultimately, the Nazis regarding Christianity as having the stink of Jewishness, and intended to eventually do away with it alltogether.


You have no actual historical basis for this argument, it's just something repeated by Christians like BronyMedic to not address the evil their religion has done in the past and not accept it.


Perhaps your research should stretch just a little beyond Wikipedia. I can list a number of real books if you like.

I'm not saying that that evil has never been done in the name of Christianity, but this just isn't one of them.
 
2012-06-04 01:17:33 AM
WHERE THERE ARE FUNDIES, FUN DIES.

And what a surprise it will be to them when they decide to launch their little "cleansing" program on the nonbelievers, only to find out that when you declare war on the rest of Humanity, the rest of Humanity is going to fight back.

What? Did they think that everyone was just going to meekly say "Okay" and line up to head into the gas chambers?

profile.ak.fbcdn.netprofile.ak.fbcdn.netprofile.ak.fbcdn.netprofile.ak.fbcdn.netprofile.ak.fbcdn.net
 
2012-06-04 01:19:16 AM

TV's Vinnie: What? Did they think that everyone was just going to meekly say "Okay" and line up to head into the gas chambers?


That's the problem with fundies of every religion. They actually believe that their gods are real and will help them to achieve their goals.

Crazy, right? But true.
 
2012-06-04 01:20:03 AM

sharpiegreed: These children are not forced to go to club. It is a completely voluntary club. Parents sign permission slips.


Right. The parents "volunteer" the children. They don't "force" them, because, of course, they don't have to! Why, children in religious homes get to make all their own choices about the religion.

/sometimes force and volunteer mean the same thing
 
2012-06-04 01:20:42 AM

A Non Amos: Just checked your bio, Bevets. Here's what I say (as always): I wrote down what I believe in full in my profile, so I'm leaving lurking now.


Post count: 11, that's a lot of lurking.

As for the evangelist farks in the article, let them destroy the minds of their children, let them raise their little tin army, and if they make the mistake of thinking the combined might of their arms and their god can overcome a free and democratic people, let their dreams of theocracy die along with them.

/"This June 2nd, 2012, United States Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC) will be a featured speaker at a conference hosted by the Fort Mill, South Carolina ministry of Rick Joyner, a major apostle and prophet in the New Apostolic Reformation."
//And it somehow doesn't surprise me at all that a senator from the first of the traitor states would count himself among their number
 
2012-06-04 01:20:51 AM

rebelyell2006: sharpiegreed: 1. Yes, it did. I dated an Athiest for seven years who regularly gave me shiat for being Agnostic. Not jokingly either.
2. Shun and punish? What would satisfy this BDSM fantasy? A ball gag? A flogging?

Perhaps the shiat that your ex-boyfriend gave you. Was he by any chance German?


Half. Either you are my ex bf or you know something about German's that I don't
 
2012-06-04 01:21:17 AM

Ed Finnerty: More and more, Christians seem to confuse the Golden Rule with Golden Axe.


www.arcade-history.com
 
2012-06-04 01:22:00 AM

Bevets: 2) Christians have been around for nearly two thousand years and have not engaged in genocide.


Good old Bevets. 9/10 as usual. laughing my ass of at all the people who took the bait.

/Would have given you a 10 but you are getting a bit too predictable. Still, top form though.
 
2012-06-04 01:22:19 AM
Typos...it's late
 
2012-06-04 01:22:58 AM
intelligent comment below: Wall of text, Gish Gallop attempt at quoting Wikipedia

Quote Wikipedia to despute Office of Strategic Service reports and actual academic dissections of Hitler's own Writings.

Claim debate victory. (Danth's Law of Internet Debate: If you have to insist that you've won an Internet argument, you've probably lost badly.)

intelligent comment below, everybody!

Let's give him a hand! No. Really. He needs one.
 
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