Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Reuters)   Louisiana defends privatization of education, and by "privatization of education" they really mean sending your kid to Sunday School 5 days per week where she will learn to count to potato in a windowless church bunker   (reuters.com) divider line 482
    More: Asinine, Sunday School, parochial schools, superintendent of schools, private schools, buyer beware, religious education, online school  
•       •       •

5287 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Jun 2012 at 9:30 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



482 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-06-03 01:44:33 PM  

Linux_Yes: Religion is the opiate of the uneducated masses (i.e. Republicans)


I wonder if Republicans are more religious than Democrats (or non-voters, or third-party voters)
 
2012-06-03 01:45:17 PM  

realmolo: This is why I'm convinced that public education needs to be handled *entirely* by the feds.

The individual states and municipalities can't be trusted. It's too easy for Bible-thumping idiots to take over local and state school boards, and ruin an entire generation of children. Never mind that local school administrators are some of the most incompetent bureaucrats in government.

At the national level, that kind of craziness doesn't fly At least, not yet.


I, too, have noticed that the smaller government gets, the stupider and crazier it gets. Witness, HOAs.
 
2012-06-03 01:45:55 PM  

bulldg4life: beta_plus: Awww, subby and Fark Libs are all butt hurt because those kids are going to learn how to read and they can't.

It's Sunday morning. Seriously. You're trolling an internet message board on, I'm assuming, a sunny Sunday morning.

Whether you get paid to do it or not, don't you ever sit back and wonder what went wrong in your life?


He has Jeebus on his side; he can do no wrong as long as it's in his name; discriminate, molest, torture, pilfer....the list is nearly endless!
 
2012-06-03 01:46:57 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: The Name: BarkingUnicorn: Why should childless people have to pay for public schools?

I have no problem with childless people not paying for public schools.

As long as they're willing to give up all the benefits of publicly-funded medical care and scientific research, the FDA, the EPA, infrastructure, police, firefighters, pretty much every government service that requires a bunch of people with at least high school diplomas to provide -which is everything.

THIS. I'm getting tired of this "I don't have to pay for something if I don't notice a benefit for it" attitude. A side-effect of the right's war on education is the tunnel-vision caused by linear thinking. Somehow we've thrown the core principle of civilization out the window and replaced it with a mantra that says you are entitled to all the benefits of living in a society and all the freedom-of-choice of living outside of a society.


Memo to self: add "(rhetorical)" to all rhetorical questions henceforth.
 
2012-06-03 01:47:32 PM  
Privatize everything already. You want a Randian survival of the fittest so damn badly, then just do it.

Just keep a lookout for psychopaths and other lovers of liberty
Link
 
2012-06-03 01:50:31 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Don't Troll Me Bro!: We really just need to let a state or two do this. In 20 years we can use them as an example to anyone else. "Sure, go right ahead, if you want to look like Louisiana."

It's already a low standard. The only reason it's not the butt of national jokes is because Mississippi is next door.

Can't imagine how much worse schools can get in Louisiana than they already are now. (Unless you live in the suburbs of New Orleans).


This is how they get worse:

FTFA: The school willing to accept the most voucher students -- 314 -- is New Living Word in Ruston, which has a top-ranked basketball team but no library. Students spend most of the day watching TVs in bare-bones classrooms. Each lesson consists of an instructional DVD that intersperses Biblical verses with subjects such chemistry or composition.
 
2012-06-03 01:50:58 PM  

Rann Xerox: The school willing to accept the most voucher students -- 314 -- is New Living Word in Ruston, which has a top-ranked basketball team but no library. Students spend most of the day watching TVs in bare-bones classrooms. Each lesson consists of an instructional DVD that intersperses Biblical verses with subjects such chemistry or composition.

Chemistry done in biblical verses??? WTF??? They must have f*cked up the symbols of the Periodic Table.

"Tommy? What is the Periodic Table symbol for oxygen?"
"John 3:16, teacher."
"Very good, Tommy."


Idiocracy in action. They can play Basketball, but cant even count to potato.
 
2012-06-03 01:52:07 PM  

proteus_b: Fart_Machine: According to the studies in the article, the gap between black and white students has significantly narrowed. Between differences in income is where the real gap is.

Yes, you are right, both of those are true. However perhaps what has happened is that the educational gap per wealth gap has grown, while the percentage of blacks who are poor has shrunk. Thus, it is possible (as has been reported in other studies) that there is a black-white gap which exists even after controlling for income/wealth. E.g. that lower-class whites may outperform middle-class blacks in standardized tests.


Link is a PDF
A study exploring the role of socioeconomic status and educational achievement. The study also notes the negative impacts of socioeconomic status and linguistic development (which later turns into educational achievement). The study also factors SES and race (comparing wealthier African Americans to poorer African Americans).

Here's the issue at hand. SES is a terribly rough metric for gauging achievement gaps. But, there are important trends to take note of. For example - there is a statistical significance between SES and achievement. This holds true even in the black community. But, there are some significant exceptions.

It seems like the factors that help determine family SES are more likely responsible for the achievement gap among blacks. Link is a PDF

So, for example, mother's education level seems to be a great predictor of reading comprehension and language comprehension. It is also a great predictor for SES when looking at extreme low-income/poverty and high-income (but has very little prediction value for MSES).
 
2012-06-03 01:54:23 PM  

Bucky Katt: Mrtraveler01: Don't Troll Me Bro!: We really just need to let a state or two do this. In 20 years we can use them as an example to anyone else. "Sure, go right ahead, if you want to look like Louisiana."

It's already a low standard. The only reason it's not the butt of national jokes is because Mississippi is next door.

Can't imagine how much worse schools can get in Louisiana than they already are now. (Unless you live in the suburbs of New Orleans).

This is how they get worse:

FTFA: The school willing to accept the most voucher students -- 314 -- is New Living Word in Ruston, which has a top-ranked basketball team but no library. Students spend most of the day watching TVs in bare-bones classrooms. Each lesson consists of an instructional DVD that intersperses Biblical verses with subjects such chemistry or composition.


Ruston is in Northern Louisiana. That's not Real Louisiana.

That's the part of Louisiana that's the result of a messy gangbang between Texas, Arkansas, and Mississippi.
 
2012-06-03 01:54:50 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Memo to self: add "(rhetorical)" to all rhetorical questions henceforth.


On the brightside for me, I was getting a chuckle out of each person who failed to realize that your question was obviously rhetorical, and the vehemence of their responses.
 
2012-06-03 01:58:23 PM  
Destroying education in the state is one way to be sure they get a bumper crop of future republicans.
 
2012-06-03 02:01:17 PM  

proteus_b: Linux_Yes: Religion is the opiate of the uneducated masses (i.e. Republicans)

I wonder if Republicans are more religious than Democrats (or non-voters, or third-party voters)



if they *aren't* more religious they do a great job of pretending they are. {insert obvious tag here}

its common knowledge that the Republican party stresses Religion more than Dems do. or at least they use the tool of Religion more often to move their agenda forward.
 
2012-06-03 02:01:19 PM  
Bucky Katt:

The private prison school willing to accept the most inmates voucher students -- 314 -- is New Living Word in Ruston, which has a top-ranked basketball team but no library. Inmates Students spend most of the day watching TVs in bare-bones cells classrooms. Each lesson consists of a cellmate an instructional DVD that intersperses Biblical verses with subjects such chemicastry chemistry or compositionalship composition.

Book it
 
2012-06-03 02:03:38 PM  

proteus_b: Bontesla: Again . . . have you told the magical black folk that live within your universe that you are okay with them using your things? Because . . . I think that would go really far . . .

Magical black folk? The next door neighbors on both sides of my house where I grew up are black. And except for the color of their skin, have rather little in common with poor blacks in the ghetto. My point is that blacks who are successful move out of the ghettoes and the positive role models they might have been do not exist. Well perhaps they serve as positive role models to suburban whites that blacks are not all just a bunch of gang-bangers with speed, but are actually equally capable of being successful in all walks of life. Which is good. But removing the positive role models from the black communities is probably not good for those communities.

You sound kind of hysterical. I just saw this movie about the subject.


Hysterical? You clearly do not know me. I have two moods: slightly amused and amused.

The fact is you're a racist. I'm not talking about the literal definition in which one sees a distinction among races. I'm talking about your continual suggestion that perhaps the reason for black under-performance has something to do with their blackness and your insistence on disregarding other explanations.

There's absolutely no need for me to become hysterical when chatting with a racist over the internet. Racism isn't an educational decision. Racism isn't a reasonable decision. Someone on Fark said something along the lines of, "You can't reason someone out of a thought they never reasoned themselves into."

So, in my replies to you, I don't intend on convincing you of anything. I have no interest in becoming excited over this discussion. Ultimately, you're going to leave this discussion pretty much thinking exactly what you were thinking when you entered into it.

My replies to you are to show everyone else how thin your arguments are. I worry that, if left unchallenged, some ignorant lad is going to think that the absence of a rebuttal is support of the argument.
 
2012-06-03 02:07:25 PM  

proteus_b: Fart_Machine: If what you say is correct then poor whites would be vastly outperforming their black counterparts and that isn't the case.

Why vastly?

Christ, I entered the thread with a snarky comment but when everyone pushes one way I feel inclined to push back another way. I believe that the black-white performance gap, whatever its magnitude (vast, not vast) is not fully explained by income gaps. I think this is well borne out by data and no one has contradicted this (the article you posted doesn't really have enough information, and that clearly wasn't the intent of the study, but rather why the rich-poor performance gap is growing, and what is causing that). Instead, people are implying that I am racist, which is rather bizarre. I'm as liberal as can be in matters of race.


When you argue that black integration has been bad for other people - what is one to think?
 
2012-06-03 02:09:06 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: Most states allow charters to reject students based on former disciplinary issues, and that's precisely what charters tend to use as a reason to kick students out. So yeah, often the only option is to return to a regular public school.


FTA: "Valeria Thompson runs the Louisiana New School Academy in Baton Rouge, which prides itself on getting troubled students through middle and high school. Families have struggled to pay tuition, she said, and enrollment is down to about 60 kids."
 
2012-06-03 02:12:03 PM  
bontesla

thanks for the links. but my very basic understanding of the articles is that they conclude that while SES (socio-economic status---by the way what kind of journal allows you to use an acronym without defining it???) is correlated with achievement, that it's believed that other factors actually cause the SES gap and achievement gap, therefore creating a false illusion that SES is causing the achievement gap. perhaps i am misinterpreting the findings. i believe that both can be factors. as the reference of fartmachine indicated, wealthy families may be spending up to nine times (or more) on educational materials. obviously a kid who takes an SAT prep course will have an advantage over one who doesn't. however, i contend that other factors are at play---my youngest sister taught herself to read at age three---this cannot be attributed to better schooling, but the presence of reading materials and a nurturing environment were most likely beneficial (of course this is an anecdote which proves nothing, but i'm just saying....)

/course now the younger sister is a radical man-hating feminist who majored in womens' studies
 
2012-06-03 02:13:51 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Salt Lick Steady: Most states allow charters to reject students based on former disciplinary issues, and that's precisely what charters tend to use as a reason to kick students out. So yeah, often the only option is to return to a regular public school.

FTA: "Valeria Thompson runs the Louisiana New School Academy in Baton Rouge, which prides itself on getting troubled students through middle and high school. Families have struggled to pay tuition, she said, and enrollment is down to about 60 kids."


What part of "most" don't you understand?

Moreover, a small segment of charter schools draft their mission statements - and their charters - in terms of assisting troubled youth, or youth that is likely to drop out of high school. Of course these particular schools aren't using disciplinary reasons to cursorily drop kids; it's their very mission to help them.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, huh?
 
2012-06-03 02:14:23 PM  

proteus_b: Bontesla: I said: the common denominator among "under-performers" is not their blackness but their distinction as being a minority group member.

I'm not even sure that I understand what constitutes a minority in your opinion. Do you only mean ethnic or racial groups? Or do cracker trailer-trash count? They are surely an under-performing group---they are probably a minority of Americans, even though they are not typically considered an ethnic minority. Who is a member of the majority, then, that might disprove your statement? Therefore your statement is tautological and I have to get back to work.


When I say, "minority group status" or "member of a minority group", I'm not giving you opinions. I am not opining that x belongs to minority group y. There's an actual definition and everything . . .

Minority Group:
A group that is either numerically small, lacks power or has restricted access to social, economic, and political and educational structures due to such characteristics as ethnicity, language, race, sex (gender), sexual orientation, disability, religion. The term implies inferior social standing. (NSHRC, Participant's Handbook, Diversity Training - Train the Trainer, July 2004)

Your ignorance of a definition does not suddenly make my argument a tautology.
 
2012-06-03 02:15:11 PM  

proteus_b: /course now the younger sister is a radical man-hating feminist who majored in womens' studies


truly, trolling at it's finest
 
2012-06-03 02:16:27 PM  

Linux_Yes: if they *aren't* more religious they do a great job of pretending they are. {insert obvious tag here}

its common knowledge that the Republican party stresses Religion more than Dems do. or at least they use the tool of Religion more often to move their agenda forward.


i meant the populace, not the politicians. yes, the religious right is annoying.

Bontesla: When you argue that black integration has been bad for other people - what is one to think?


do you disagree with what i said though?

Bontesla: black under-performance has something to do with their blackness


according to the papers you post, the achievement gap likely does have something to do with the environments in which they are growing up. which is exactly what i've been [apparently unsuccessfully] arguing all along.

/klan meeting in 26 minutes, thanks for chatting
 
2012-06-03 02:17:01 PM  
in principle, this sucks.

but having attended the louisiana public school system, im finding it hard to raise my voice in its defense.
 
2012-06-03 02:17:02 PM  

proteus_b: wotthefark: Noah made the ark 300 cubits (450 feet) in length. It was 50 cubits (75 feet) in width, and 30 cubits (45 feet) in height. People believe that back in Bible times a cubit was a man's arm from elbow to fingertips.

He then fit approximately:

~7.77 million species of animals (of which 953,434 have been described and cataloged)
~298,000 species of plants (of which 215,644 have been described and cataloged)
~611,000 species of fungi (moulds, mushrooms) (of which 43,271 have been described and cataloged)
~36,400 species of protozoa (single-cell organisms with animal-like behavior, eg. movement, of which 8,118 have been described and cataloged)
~27,500 species of chromista (including, eg. brown algae, diatoms, water moulds, of which 13,033 have been described and cataloged)

You know, I asked the esteemed Kent Hovind (google him if you're not familiar with the sheister) this very question when he visited my fine public college (which calls itself a university, in contrast to academic tradition, but who's counting?) His answer partly revolves around the fact that creationists do not deny the existence of "micro-evolution", so that perhaps not ALL species would need to be present in the ark, and also around the fact that he's a snake-oil salesman who doesn't know or care how large the ark is. He's a master of changing the subject. He had slides proving that the pope is a nazi (and this was in 2002!)

Koreans still count ages that way apparently. Actually I understand that they add another year on New Years. Thus you could be "two" on January 1 despite having been born just a day earlier.


*lol* I can't believe you spoke with Kent Hovind . . . and that you asked him that. Your favorability rating has greatly improved (I know you don't care whether or not I find you favorable). Just sharing.
 
2012-06-03 02:19:25 PM  

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Bible-based math? WTF does that even mean?



Judas stole 40 loaves of leavened bread. That's as much as four tens!
 
2012-06-03 02:20:14 PM  

Bontesla: (NSHRC, Participant's Handbook, Diversity Training - Train the Trainer, July 2004)


pardon my ignorance of "the diversity handbook", our klatch spilt koffee on ours before i was able to get a look at it.

merriam-webster lists "a part of a population differing from others in some characteristics and often subjected to differential treatment". are jews a minority? how about snake-handling hillbillies?
 
2012-06-03 02:23:21 PM  

proteus_b: Fart_Machine: If what you say is correct then poor whites would be vastly outperforming their black counterparts and that isn't the case.

Why vastly?

Christ, I entered the thread with a snarky comment but when everyone pushes one way I feel inclined to push back another way. I believe that the black-white performance gap, whatever its magnitude (vast, not vast) is not fully explained by income gaps. I think this is well borne out by data and no one has contradicted this (the article you posted doesn't really have enough information, and that clearly wasn't the intent of the study, but rather why the rich-poor performance gap is growing, and what is causing that). Instead, people are implying that I am racist, which is rather bizarre. I'm as liberal as can be in matters of race.


Perhaps because your initial comment implies that because black kids are integrated into schools it lowers the average overall?

So do you have any data to show that this is the case?
 
2012-06-03 02:26:03 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Vouchers... This f*cking retarded idea has been around for 30 years. Still hasn't stopped being f*cking retarded.


Actually, this would be a great idea if private schools were held to the same standards as public. The problem here stems from the fact that they aren't. How the unholy hell a school with no library where students learn via DVD passed any semblance of qualification is completely beyond me, and should be corrected quickly and harshly.
 
2012-06-03 02:27:14 PM  
I've skimmed through some of the 6th grade ABECA school "books". They are beyond appalling.

It's literally as if the kids are listening to a sermon from Pat Robertson on history and science. At first I thought it was some kind of joke or spoof. It's not.

It's the extreme right wing's "final solution" to have this generation become the followers and participants in the emerging Dark Ages
 
2012-06-03 02:28:28 PM  

Fart_Machine: Perhaps because your initial comment implies that because black kids are integrated into schools it lowers the average overall?

So do you have any data to show that this is the case?


No, and I'm also rather skeptical of "data" showing anything in general. As Twain said, there are "lies, damned lies and statistics".
And I don't necessarily claim that the average overall is lowered. However I do think that the flight of successful people, whether white or black (but possibly especially black) from black ghettoes does have negative effects on those blacks who remain. Likely the same effect is true for whites who outgrow the trailer park but whites may be more mobile than blacks in any event, for any number of reasons (and surely housing discrimination is one historical reason for the limited mobility of blacks).
 
2012-06-03 02:31:19 PM  

proteus_b: clambam: I know I was meaning to put you on Ignore and this kind of post reminds me of why. Bing! Adios, asshole.

I guess it's too late, but just so everyone else knows, Ignore lists are the tool that libs use to keep God out of their brains.


If you are serious, then you are also a misguided dildo.

How can anyone say that and not be a retard?
 
2012-06-03 02:31:55 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: Moreover, a small segment of charter schools draft their mission statements - and their charters - in terms of assisting troubled youth, or youth that is likely to drop out of high school. Of course these particular schools aren't using disciplinary reasons to cursorily drop kids; it's their very mission to help them.


You had issue with me pointing out that all kids who are kicked out of charter or private schools aren't necessarily all being dumped into public schools. Others have commented that they feel charter and school choice program success is dues in large part to selection bias. I was pointing out, with evidence from the article, that there are charter schools that deal with troublesome students, and some of whom are dumped from public schools.

Salt Lick Steady: Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, huh?


Having a discussion without getting your little feelings hurt isn't your suit, huh?
 
2012-06-03 02:32:37 PM  

elffster: If you are serious, then you are also a misguided dildo.


You must not remember bevets
 
2012-06-03 02:37:55 PM  
i1.ytimg.com
 
2012-06-03 02:39:59 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: You had issue with me pointing out that all kids who are kicked out of charter or private schools aren't necessarily all being dumped into public schools.


No, I said that charter schools often do kick students out because of behavioral/disciplinary issues. Then you rejoined with a singular example of one that doesn't. I also mentioned how certain charters specialize in such students.

Again, that pesky reading comprehension thing creeps up on you, huh?

DrewCurtisJr: Having a discussion without getting your little feelings hurt isn't your suit, huh?


My feelings hurt? I don't even know how to classify that logical fallacy, frankly. Non sequitur mostly.
 
2012-06-03 02:40:07 PM  

proteus_b: Linux_Yes: Religion is the opiate of the uneducated masses (i.e. Republicans)

I wonder if Republicans are more religious than Democrats (or non-voters, or third-party voters)


2007 survey of about 1000 adults:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/how-does-the-faith-of-republicans-d e mocrats-measure-up-26175/


"According to survey results, 57 percent of Republicans assert that the Bible is accurate in all of the principles it teaches compared to 40 percent of Democrats. Republicans are also twice as likely to believe Satan is a real spiritual entity (33 percent versus 17 percent); more likely to reject the idea that good works can earn salvation (35 percent versus 23 percent); more commonly describe themselves as absolutely committed to Christianity (61 percent versus 48 percent); more likely to deem their religious faith to be important in their life (77 percent versus 67 percent); and more likely to believe that God is the all-knowing, perfect Creator and Ruler of the universe (75 percent to 65 percent)."
 
2012-06-03 02:40:09 PM  

proteus_b: No, and I'm also rather skeptical of "data" showing anything in general.


So you just know in your gut that black people are the problem with our education system?

You made claims about performance on standardizes tests (without backing them up of course). How can you even attempt to make such claims if you don't accept that data can be used as evidence? How can you make any claims at all if you cannot back them up with some meaningful data that supports the claims?

This goes beyond just a weak attempt to dodge a request for you to back up your assertions. You've clearly indicated that your entire method of reasoning is to just pull things out of your ass that sound good to you and not attempt in any way to establish the validity of those claims. With your own words you have declared your own words utterly worthless.
 
2012-06-03 02:42:07 PM  

Mrtraveler01: winterwh


When did the winterwhile get the boot exactly? Before the mass alts started popping up that is.
 
2012-06-03 02:44:21 PM  

Bill Murray said I was weird: Mrtraveler01: winterwh

When did the winterwhile get the boot exactly? Before the mass alts started popping up that is.


I don't know if it's a matter of if he got banned moreso than enough people ignored him to the point that he had to create a new account to quench his unquenchable thirst for attention.

The guy needs help.
 
2012-06-03 02:45:25 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: "According to survey results, 57 percent of Republicans assert that the Bible is accurate in all of the principles it teaches compared to 40 percent of Democrats. Republicans are also twice as likely to believe Satan is a real spiritual entity (33 percent versus 17 percent); more likely to reject the idea that good works can earn salvation (35 percent versus 23 percent); more commonly describe themselves as absolutely committed to Christianity (61 percent versus 48 percent); more likely to deem their religious faith to be important in their life (77 percent versus 67 percent); and more likely to believe that God is the all-knowing, perfect Creator and Ruler of the universe (75 percent to 65 percent)."


So 65% or more of Democrats are insane, as opposed to 75% or more of Republicans. Still not a very reassuring sign. How about non-voters? Maybe that's the problem. Both of the parties represent religious nuts (one slightly more so) and non-theists are less represented.
 
2012-06-03 02:46:05 PM  
I live in LA. I have two children in primary education. Additionally two friend's wives are primary school teachers and have been for close to 20 years. I've been hearing about this from them for a few months now. There have been some very shady things going on with this legislation. Please note that most of this information is coming from the friends and their wives.

First off there's the standard political money laundering going on with a family member's charity. It has large donations from companies and interestes that are regulated heavily by the LA government. Then several of the state senators who have come out against the vouchers have had their committee status revoked. There has also been some intimidation of teachers from protesting against the changes. This has been shown in filtering of school email access to teachers, harsh punishments for teachers taking off on planned protest dates and new evaluations of teachers being suddenly implemented.

I am really beginning to think that I need to get my and my family's asses out of the south.
 
2012-06-03 02:47:02 PM  

proteus_b: Bontesla: Your reply: This, however, is not true.


proteus_I I already stated that I misinterpreted your comment.

Sorry, I tend to run a few pages behind.

proteus_I Fine, forget the black people! How to get poor people to achieve better is a fine goal.

Why would you think this is my argument? Let's not be silly... it is important to understand why achievement gaps exist. However, the appearance of the racial achievement gap is explained by other factors (that also contribute to SES but are not SES). By focusing on the achievement gap of blacks while ignoring the information gleaned from other existing achievement gaps is silly.

For example - we know that there is a large disparity between LSES students and HSES students but there is not a significant difference between LSES students and MSES students. This relationship is displayed boldly when it comes to black achievement. It's also obvious in Native American achievement. It's less obvious in white achievement (although some studies show that it's there and to a lesser extent).

So, it's disingenuous to completely discount the role of SES. The question is - why is the HSES student outperforming the MSES student? Why is there little difference between the LSES student and the MSES student? Why is this a pattern more obvious in black communities and Native American communities?

There's an interesting explanation proposed by a few social scientists. Basically, the explanation is that ISES and MSES are functionally similarly statuses whereas HSES is more different than similar.

Both ISES and MSES experience something known as "gas poor" (unable to afford their utilities), parents tend to have low-paying or blue collar jobs, and so on. In fact, we're discovering that many people in the MSES are functionally and financially poor despite their status. After taxes, health insurance, social security, bills, child care, and so on - there's very little money left. We're seeing a great deal of this poverty occurring in other countries, too.

Thus, the same problems facing ISES students are many of the same problems facing MSES students (overworked/absent parents, inadequate access to educational resources, and so on).

However, these problems are not being experienced by HSES students. Parents can afford tutors, education is a priority in the house, parents are educated, and so on.


proteus_I What "my" country? It's our country and I am not some redneck gettin' all agitatered that blacks are going to school with mah daughtas, I'm merely pointing out that one unfortunate consequence of black assimilation into society has had negative repercussions on the less assimilated portions.

I was being hyperbolic to illustrate the odd conflict of your responses.

proteus_I Did I ever say that I'm against that assimilation? Perhaps I believe that assimilation for its own sake outweighs those repercussions. Perhaps I believe that there are other positive consequences of that assimilation which outweighs those repercussions.

Assimilation doesn't work - but it's a notorious standard the dominant group places upon the minority group. It's a great way of saying, "If they would stop being so different and be more like us, we'd get along better."

Studies have shown this to be false. We've had minority groups that fully assimilate (for example - a second generation immigrant). They adopt the dominant group's speech, hobbies, foods, culture, and so on . . . yet they still are accused of not trying hard enough. In fact, second generation immigrants are more likely to completely abandon their family's cultural practices in order to better assimilate. It does not make any difference.

proteus_I And yeah, maybe it's unimportant, but many other minority groups seem to be doing better than blacks. Yes I know that they don't have all of the same baggage.

Again - you've been missing the point. You seem to be pressing the question, "What is it about blacks that make them perform worse than their counterparts?"

That's the wrong question to ask. Inherent in that question is the assumption that this inadequate performance is related to their blackness. It's something within them and not something within society. The fact is - this phenomena isn't limited to blacks. It's also limited to many other minority groups. And when we look at all of the data - it seems to be less racial and more societal.
 
2012-06-03 02:47:15 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: You had issue with me pointing out that all kids who are kicked out of charter or private schools aren't necessarily all being dumped into public schools.


Oh, and you didn't point out that it's not the case that all kids who are kicked out of a charter must go back to public school. You made a rather flippant statement that those who are kicked out could find another charter.
 
2012-06-03 02:48:10 PM  

Sangi: First off there's the standard political money laundering going on with a family member's charity. It has large donations from companies and interestes that are regulated heavily by the LA government. Then several of the state senators who have come out against the vouchers have had their committee status revoked. There has also been some intimidation of teachers from protesting against the changes. This has been shown in filtering of school email access to teachers, harsh punishments for teachers taking off on planned protest dates and new evaluations of teachers being suddenly implemented.


So in other words it's another day in Louisiana.
 
2012-06-03 02:48:17 PM  
Can't see how parental choice and more educational options is a bad thing.

Private schooling would be less political too - if you don't like the curriculum, simply change schools.
 
2012-06-03 02:48:58 PM  

proteus_b: Both of the parties represent religious nuts (one slightly more so)


In terms of proposed legislation? Not so much.
 
2012-06-03 02:49:07 PM  

proteus_b: Bontesla: *She

Well that explains it. You are hysterical (which is why you believe that I believe that blacks have magic powers). I sentence you to live in the Victorian era.


Ha. I would simply sleep my way to the top. Living on the fringe of society but sleeping with the most important men will allow me to continue my education and influence major decisions without having to concern myself with proper behavior.

That'll show you.
 
2012-06-03 02:52:03 PM  

Salt Lick Steady: masterone41: Portia: masterone41: So which system wins the Spelling Bee every year?

its not the public one

Are spelling bee accomplishments the best measurement of overall academic performance of students?

lets check

Open to every one

No Government involvement

I say yes

Just... wha?


Best Part? WW is going to keep making alts...forever!
 
2012-06-03 02:52:50 PM  

proteus_b: Linux_Yes: Religion is the opiate of the uneducated masses (i.e. Republicans)

I wonder if Republicans are more religious than Democrats (or non-voters, or third-party voters)


While I have not done ANY research on this . . . I suspect that Republicans are more homogenous and Democrats are more heterogeneous. So, Republicans may not be more religious - they may be simply more in consensus. It's easy to legislate when everyone on your aside agrees.
 
2012-06-03 02:53:31 PM  

Bontesla: That's the wrong question to ask. Inherent in that question is the assumption that this inadequate performance is related to their blackness. It's something within them and not something within society. The fact is - this phenomena isn't limited to blacks. It's also limited to many other minority groups. And when we look at all of the data - it seems to be less racial and more societal.


Well this may be an interesting point and I admit that I hadn't thought of it that way. I suppose that as members of our society, it is indeed everyone's interest. Which is why we're discussing. Now I really will be late to my Klan meeting if I don't run along now.

/by the way what is "ISES"? you have to explain your acronyms. i'm a minority and therefore have historically suffered wrongs which have caused serious brain damages
 
2012-06-03 02:54:51 PM  

Jacobin: I've skimmed through some of the 6th grade ABECA school "books". They are beyond appalling.

It's literally as if the kids are listening to a sermon from Pat Robertson on history and science. At first I thought it was some kind of joke or spoof. It's not.

It's the extreme right wing's "final solution" to have this generation become the followers and participants in the emerging Dark Ages


Yup. As I mentioned above, I had to "learn" from those books. Our seventh-grade science textbook had an entire chapter dedicated to debunking evolution and had bible verses interspersed throughout the text, and -I will never forget this- our history textbook said something to this effect about the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s: "The fact that heterosexuals and even newborn children began to contract AIDS shows just how bad our world's sexual immorality had become since the sexual revolution."
 
Displayed 50 of 482 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report