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(Reuters)   Louisiana defends privatization of education, and by "privatization of education" they really mean sending your kid to Sunday School 5 days per week where she will learn to count to potato in a windowless church bunker   (reuters.com) divider line 484
    More: Asinine, Sunday School, parochial schools, superintendent of schools, private schools, buyer beware, religious education, online school  
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5280 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Jun 2012 at 9:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-03 01:01:26 PM

masterone41: Portia: masterone41: So which system wins the Spelling Bee every year?

its not the public one

Are spelling bee accomplishments the best measurement of overall academic performance of students?

lets check

Open to every one

No Government involvement

I say yes


Just... wha?
 
2012-06-03 01:02:18 PM

Halli: masterone41: Portia: masterone41: So which system wins the Spelling Bee every year?

its not the public one

Are spelling bee accomplishments the best measurement of overall academic performance of students?

lets check

Open to every one

No Government involvement

I say yes

Account created: 2012-06-02 10:07:58

Oh man there is going to be a flood of these retards until November.


Yeah, I just realized that too. Trollers gonna troll.
 
2012-06-03 01:04:06 PM

masterone41: El Freak: Cats_Lie: You don't have a choice if you can't afford it. Vouchers just give the same freedom to the poor that we have always given to the rich. Why are you in favor of disadvantaging children from economically underprivileged families? What are you trying to protect?

Funny how in right wing Fundie logic, that doesn't apply to healthcare.

/Feeding the troll.

actually it would apply to healthcare, very nicely

Total Gov out of deciding everything, give poor folks vouchers, wow, you do know the winning formula


The question is will those voucher be sufficient in covering the cost of health care.

But you don't give a shiat anyway right winterwhile?
 
2012-06-03 01:05:04 PM

Bontesla: I said: the common denominator among "under-performers" is not their blackness but their distinction as being a minority group member.


I'm not even sure that I understand what constitutes a minority in your opinion. Do you only mean ethnic or racial groups? Or do cracker trailer-trash count? They are surely an under-performing group---they are probably a minority of Americans, even though they are not typically considered an ethnic minority. Who is a member of the majority, then, that might disprove your statement? Therefore your statement is tautological and I have to get back to work.
 
2012-06-03 01:05:22 PM

Weaver95: NetOwl: These religious "schools" are child abuse.

Most stupid Republican ideas are just bad, but this will ruin thousands of kids' lives. Denying a kid education destroys the kid at the most fundamental level. It's sick.

well...done well, I don't have any philosophical objection to a religious based education - it CAN work, if done right.

what I don't understand tho is the desire to outsource public education. what advantage is there for doing so? how can we be sure that a private company can do the job better? how do we even measure 'better'? what choices will poor kids be given under this new system of education, and how will it be paid for?


It's not about measuring "better" and you know it. These assholes just want to indoctrinate children into their closed-minded worldview. Period. There's nothing more to it. If it was about religious freedom, they'd be OK with Islamic schools in the US. If it was about a better education, then they wouldn't be using science texts that don't even mention evolution.
 
2012-06-03 01:05:44 PM

masterone41: 12349876: Cats_Lie: 12349876: Cats_Lie: You don't have a choice if you can't afford it. Vouchers just give the same freedom to the poor that we have always given to the rich. Why are you in favor of disadvantaging children from economically underprivileged families? What are you trying to protect?

Nope. The fancy schools will just up their price high enough above the voucher to keep the riff raff out.

So you prefer a system where the poor have exactly one choice, to rely on the government?

The poor are still dependent on the government for that voucher.

whats funny here is to watch the feet

given Vouchers, in DC, a LIBERAL Oasis

they run to private schools with their vouchers

ouch


The poor spend government money on booze and lottery tickets too.
 
2012-06-03 01:05:52 PM

masterone41: Total Gov out of deciding everything, give poor folks vouchers


You realize that those vouchers come out of government coffers?

masterone41: Right.. you are standing on a stage, on film, cheating?


Why are you still talking about spelling bees when the person to whom you were responding was referring to DC charter schools' test scores?

Oh nevermind. Welcome to ignore.
 
2012-06-03 01:06:38 PM
How the hell have you guys not realized it's winterwhile yet with a 2 hour old alt?
 
2012-06-03 01:07:17 PM
BIBLE-BASED MATH BOOKS

Noah made the ark 300 cubits (450 feet) in length. It was 50 cubits (75 feet) in width, and 30 cubits (45 feet) in height. People believe that back in Bible times a cubit was a man's arm from elbow to fingertips.

He then fit approximately:

~7.77 million species of animals (of which 953,434 have been described and cataloged)
~298,000 species of plants (of which 215,644 have been described and cataloged)
~611,000 species of fungi (moulds, mushrooms) (of which 43,271 have been described and cataloged)
~36,400 species of protozoa (single-cell organisms with animal-like behavior, eg. movement, of which 8,118 have been described and cataloged)
~27,500 species of chromista (including, eg. brown algae, diatoms, water moulds, of which 13,033 have been described and cataloged)


- times 2 male/female on his boat and kept the carnivores, omnivores and herbivores separate. Not sure what he did with all the poop. I mean 40 days and 40 nights that's a lot of poop.


Also, the Bible is one based, not zero based. Zero is not used in the bible. This is because neither the Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, or Romans used zero. The chapters in the Bible start with one instead of zero. In Bible times,if a child was 3 months old and someone asked the mother how old the baby was she would say, "one."

Mathematical Miracles.
 
2012-06-03 01:09:23 PM

Commander Lysdexic: If you can stop them thinking whilst they are children, then once they are adults they will never question their rulers.


Aaaaaannnndd we have a winner!

There are some public school systems that are truly awful in every sense of the word; and while many of them are in inner cities others are in Republican suburbs and small towns where the schools seem to exist solely for sports.

I guess I can understand the rationale behind having vouchers in a district where the schools are indeed awful (and let's keep in mind folks that many districts crank out idiots becuase the parents care more about reality TV than their kid's education; the teachers can only do so much). But is it too much to ask that these schools be held to a basic set of standards?
 
2012-06-03 01:10:41 PM

masterone41: Right.. you are standing on a stage, on film, cheating?

right.. smell test... fail


Best part.... forever!
 
2012-06-03 01:11:22 PM

dababler: Are Republicans really against "set theory" in math!?


Jesus was clearly pro-(axiom of )choice. Try explaining how he fed 5,000 people with five loaves of bread and two fish without using Banach-Tarski.
 
2012-06-03 01:11:32 PM

jayhawk88: apoptotic: FTA:The school willing to accept the most voucher students -- 314 -- is New Living Word in Ruston, which has a top-ranked basketball team but no library. Students spend most of the day watching TVs in bare-bones classrooms. Each lesson consists of an instructional DVD that intersperses Biblical verses with subjects such chemistry or composition.

Cripes, they've figured out a way to get state education funding while getting rid of teachers altogether.

So, basically, college-prep courses for future LSU Tigers?


Probably not - most colleges won't accept a diploma from a high school without a library - they wouldn't consider the place accreditted.
 
2012-06-03 01:12:02 PM

masterone41: meat0918: masterone41: 12349876: Cats_Lie: 12349876: Cats_Lie: You don't have a choice if you can't afford it. Vouchers just give the same freedom to the poor that we have always given to the rich. Why are you in favor of disadvantaging children from economically underprivileged families? What are you trying to protect?

Nope. The fancy schools will just up their price high enough above the voucher to keep the riff raff out.

So you prefer a system where the poor have exactly one choice, to rely on the government?

The poor are still dependent on the government for that voucher.

whats funny here is to watch the feet

given Vouchers, in DC, a LIBERAL Oasis

they run to private schools with their vouchers

ouch

It was a failure though. They were caught cheating to up their scores.

Right.. you are standing on a stage, on film, cheating?

right.. smell test... fail


Wow, you're dense.
 
2012-06-03 01:12:06 PM

wotthefark: Also, the Bible is one based, not zero based. Zero is not used in the bible. This is because neither the Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, or Romans used zero. The chapters in the Bible start with one instead of zero.


The rest of your post aside, this is one of the dumbest things I've read in a while, and I've read all of this thread...
 
2012-06-03 01:12:15 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Portia: The point is in that some states charters do not have to accept a kid who has been expelled from his/her previous school, thus alleviating themselves of some of the worst troublemakers. That allows them a certain level of choice that a regular public school is not permitted to have. I don't know the case in Florida.

Basically, charters in Florida that have a particular mission statement, e.g., to assist those likely to drop out, to serve those at a certain age or grade level, to assist the developmentally disabled, etc. can target those students. Additionally, they can set reasonable academic standards, but the approving board is quite picky about what they will accept as reasonable.

I get your point though, and I even mentioned above that charters can easily kick students out for "disciplinary" problems, thus leaving the kid with no other option than to return to regular public school.


Ah sorry, missed where you said that. I tend to get really pissy about the whole charter vs. public debate--I've worked in both a horrible charter and a horrible public school, and it wasn't the public school that made me feel like my integrity was completely compromised by the shady things we were required to do by the managing corporation/administration. I know lots of charters aren't like the one I left, but I'm really cynical about them as a whole now.
 
2012-06-03 01:12:28 PM

proteus_b: Fart_Machine: Education Gap Grows Between Rich and Poor, Studies Say

I'm not claiming that that gap doesn't exist.


Bontesla: The educational gap also falls along socioeconomic status

Your reply: This, however, is not true.

Someone linked evidence supporting my comment. And now you're trying to explain that, "This, however, is not true" did not refer to the quoted comment.

proteus_ I'm claiming that middle-income blacks perform similarly to and worse than lower-income whites. Therefore income and wealth alone are not likely responsible for the black-white gap (I'm not talking about the rich-poor gap, nor denying its obvious existence). I'm also not really talking about the causes of this gap---merely pointing out its existence and nature.

You're doing more than that. You're also arguing that there isn't a legitimate reason for the achievement gap. You've said that you're letting them live in your country, they want to stay segregated, and that their integration is bad (because, "and so on").

When I pointed out that the achievement gap blacks experience when compared to whites is very similar to the achievement gaps experienced by many other groups holding a minority status - your response is, "But, but, but . . . I just want to talk about black people. I don't want to think about the other stuff."
 
2012-06-03 01:12:31 PM

wotthefark: Noah made the ark 300 cubits (450 feet) in length. It was 50 cubits (75 feet) in width, and 30 cubits (45 feet) in height. People believe that back in Bible times a cubit was a man's arm from elbow to fingertips.

He then fit approximately:

~7.77 million species of animals (of which 953,434 have been described and cataloged)
~298,000 species of plants (of which 215,644 have been described and cataloged)
~611,000 species of fungi (moulds, mushrooms) (of which 43,271 have been described and cataloged)
~36,400 species of protozoa (single-cell organisms with animal-like behavior, eg. movement, of which 8,118 have been described and cataloged)
~27,500 species of chromista (including, eg. brown algae, diatoms, water moulds, of which 13,033 have been described and cataloged)


You know, I asked the esteemed Kent Hovind (google him if you're not familiar with the sheister) this very question when he visited my fine public college (which calls itself a university, in contrast to academic tradition, but who's counting?) His answer partly revolves around the fact that creationists do not deny the existence of "micro-evolution", so that perhaps not ALL species would need to be present in the ark, and also around the fact that he's a snake-oil salesman who doesn't know or care how large the ark is. He's a master of changing the subject. He had slides proving that the pope is a nazi (and this was in 2002!)

Koreans still count ages that way apparently. Actually I understand that they add another year on New Years. Thus you could be "two" on January 1 despite having been born just a day earlier.
 
2012-06-03 01:15:17 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Oh, another thing: even among financially poor students there are those who are bright and will be cherry-picked, leaving the public schools with the toughest cases and less money.


The Milwaukee voucher system is really set up to do that they have to take all students. And the public schools still have the same money per student, what's the problem?
 
2012-06-03 01:16:13 PM

proteus_b: Sabyen91: This, however, is not true.

Sorry, I believed that he meant "the black-white gap is explained solely by socio-economic status". Obviously the "rich poor gap" does fall along socio-economic status, with rich kids performing better than poor ones.


*She
 
2012-06-03 01:16:37 PM

dababler: Wyalt Derp: dababler: Are Republicans really against "set theory" in math!?

Anything that's "just a theory" doesn't belong in the Republican classroom, only facts, from the Bible (or other documents by the same author, eg the Constitution).

But, set theory is totally not really a "theory". WTF I'm tired of people who are not scholars in a subject deciding what's best taught in said subject.


I think it's fallout from the "New Math" fad of 40 years ago. Never mind that it was largely abandoned 35 years ago (please correct me if I'm mistaken about that, somebody), the fact that once upon a time there was a math curriculum that started with set theory means they must never. mention. set. theory. again.

Demonizing Set Theory hews closely to the right-wing narrative about unionized teachers and liberal bureaucrats experimentin' with our kids. See the phonics debate for more of that.
 
2012-06-03 01:18:21 PM

John Dewey: I wonder what most people who say "teaching to the test" mean. I wonder if they envision teachers spoon feeding answers and/or material. I don't see that going on in schools so much as I see teachers keeping learning at a very low cognitive level. This creates a very boring and dry atmosphere that actually demeans the abilities of students and sets up a vicious cycle of low expectations and failure.


It usually mean focusing the lesson plans on narrow subject matter that will help them perform better on the test and hammering into students with repetition.
 
2012-06-03 01:19:15 PM

Bontesla: Your reply: This, however, is not true.


I already stated that I misinterpreted your comment.

Fine, forget the black people! How to get poor people to achieve better is a fine goal.

Bontesla: You've said that you're letting them live in your country, they want to stay segregated, and that their integration is bad (because, "and so on").

What "my" country? It's our country and I am not some redneck gettin' all agitatered that blacks are going to school with mah daughtas, I'm merely pointing out that one unfortunate consequence of black assimilation into society has had negative repercussions on the less assimilated portions. Did I ever say that I'm against that assimilation? Perhaps I believe that assimilation for its own sake outweighs those repercussions. Perhaps I believe that there are other positive consequences of that assimilation which outweighs those repercussions.

And yeah, maybe it's unimportant, but many other minority groups seem to be doing better than blacks. Yes I know that they don't have all of the same baggage.
 
2012-06-03 01:19:30 PM
Private schools will best prepare young Louisianan's for their lives in private prisons.
 
2012-06-03 01:20:47 PM

Bontesla: *She


Well that explains it. You are hysterical (which is why you believe that I believe that blacks have magic powers). I sentence you to live in the Victorian era.
 
2012-06-03 01:20:47 PM

DrewCurtisJr: John Dewey: I wonder what most people who say "teaching to the test" mean. I wonder if they envision teachers spoon feeding answers and/or material. I don't see that going on in schools so much as I see teachers keeping learning at a very low cognitive level. This creates a very boring and dry atmosphere that actually demeans the abilities of students and sets up a vicious cycle of low expectations and failure.

It usually mean focusing the lesson plans on narrow subject matter that will help them perform better on the test and hammering into students with repetition.


I remember when I was in high school having to take those state tests and the week or two ahead of time we spent preparing for them.

This whole concept is a waste of time IMHO.
 
2012-06-03 01:22:55 PM

DubyaHater: fark it. I don't even care anymore. Less competition for my job in the future.


This. Continue producing retards, retards.
 
2012-06-03 01:23:00 PM

Mrtraveler01: I remember when I was in high school having to take those state tests and the week or two ahead of time we spent preparing for them.


My brother teaches in an all black charter school and they spend the entire year studying for them. It's the only curriculum they have. It's depressing---the students who try learn are constantly interrupted and distracted by those who are more problematic.
 
2012-06-03 01:24:05 PM
masterone41
Account created: 2012-06-02


Getting desperate, assholes?
 
2012-06-03 01:24:17 PM

AcneVulgaris: Private schools will best prepare young Louisianan's for their lives in private prisons.


Ok, children, listen up! Today we'll be studying how to hold your pants up while carrying your food tray.

Later, in PE, we'll be teaching you how the art of switching from hands-on-the-wall to back-against-the-wall.
 
2012-06-03 01:25:08 PM

James F. Campbell: masterone41
Account created: 2012-06-02

Getting desperate, assholes?


It's winterwhile pissing away his (I think 7th?) alt within the last month.

He's desperate in more ways than one.
 
2012-06-03 01:26:29 PM

Mrtraveler01: He's desperate in more ways than one!


FTFY
 
2012-06-03 01:26:31 PM
Let the parents choose where their children are educated? Are you crazy? What a disaster!
 
2012-06-03 01:27:08 PM
I can't say as i like this much, Education should be entirely void of religion and the fact religious based school are allowed in this doesn't sit well with me at all.

Not saying a religion based school cannot properly educate a child but i feel it best that religion be left out of it. Save religion for the holy day(s) dedicated to the one of your choosing.
 
2012-06-03 01:27:21 PM

anarchy_x: Let the parents choose where their children are educated? Are you crazy? What a disaster!


You know, they can do that already.
 
2012-06-03 01:29:20 PM
I can't believe this is the same state that so rabidly supported a firebrand populist libtard like Huey Long, and later folks like Edwin Edwards. Both of these men were/are severely flawed, but I'd take their brand of sleaze over Louisiana's (and national) trend of the poor voting Republican. Because this is the sort of privatized corruption and fundie assbaggery we'll continue to see as long as folks are voting for a flag pin instead of a sane idea.

As for my state, I apologize to America. At least we have New Orleans, which will always be one of quirkiest, most unique, and wildly social liberal cities in the country. Please consider us when making plans to nuke the state from orbit.
 
2012-06-03 01:29:54 PM

grimlock1972: I can't say as i like this much, Education should be entirely void of religion and the fact religious based school are allowed in this doesn't sit well with me at all.

Not saying a religion based school cannot properly educate a child but i feel it best that religion be left out of it. Save religion for the holy day(s) dedicated to the one of your choosing.


You must've missed this beauty:

The school willing to accept the most voucher students -- 314 -- is New Living Word in Ruston, which has a top-ranked basketball team but no library. Students spend most of the day watching TVs in bare-bones classrooms. Each lesson consists of an instructional DVD that intersperses Biblical verses with subjects such chemistry or composition.

And this:

At Eternity Christian Academy in Westlake, pastor-turned-principal Marie Carrier hopes to secure extra space to enroll 135 voucher students, though she now has room for just a few dozen. Her first- through eighth-grade students sit in cubicles for much of the day and move at their own pace through Christian workbooks, such as a beginning science text that explains "what God made" on each of the six days of creation. They are not exposed to the theory of evolution.
"We try to stay away from all those things that might confuse our children," Carrier said.
Other schools approved for state-funded vouchers use social studies texts warning that liberals threaten global prosperity; Bible-based math books that don't cover modern concepts such as set theory; and biology texts built around refuting evolution.


The fact that these kind of schools can get funding from the State of Louisiana pisses me off to no end.
 
2012-06-03 01:30:46 PM

Mrtraveler01: James F. Campbell: masterone41
Account created: 2012-06-02

Getting desperate, assholes?

It's winterwhile pissing away his (I think 7th?) alt within the last month.

He's desperate in more ways than one.


You'd think that retard would at least learn to type coherent sentences, and use punctuation. Then each account might last longer than 3-4 days.
 
2012-06-03 01:32:13 PM

dickfreckle: At least we have New Orleans, which will always be one of quirkiest, most unique, and wildly social liberal cities in the country.


I love New Orleans too but it seems like once you cross from Orleans Parrish to Jefferson Parrish, the derp turns up just a little and keeps going up the further you get from NOLA.

That or just go across the lake to St. Tammany Parish which seems like derp with money.
 
2012-06-03 01:32:17 PM

anarchy_x: Let the parents choose where their children are educated?


You know, there's a difference between education and sectarian indoctrination.

/and what MrTravelor01 said
 
2012-06-03 01:33:50 PM

Mentat: The Republican War on Education living a curious, interesting, pleasurable and un-ashamed life continues.

 
2012-06-03 01:36:39 PM

Salt Lick Steady: You know, there's a difference between education and sectarian indoctrination.


I dunno, I don't think the indoctrination always works. I went to a Jesuit school, and the message was more or less socialistic, and most of those guys probably grew up to be greedy jerks. Of course, they might have grown up to be even greedier jerks if not for the education---I don't know, not having a control group.

/ I don't believe that evolution or creationism were ever discussed
// While I think it's most likely that evolution by natural selection explains the diversity of species, I would rather a school teach my kids HOW to think in such a way that they arrive to that conclusion themselves, rather than to merely tell them "evolution is fact", but not teach them HOW to think.
/// Have no objection to teaching evolution as fact.
 
2012-06-03 01:36:58 PM
I hated Sunday School because I was the dumbest kid there. I didn't know jack about the bible compared to all the Flanders that were in there. This is opposed to regular school where I was only the fourth or fifth dumbest kid there.
 
2012-06-03 01:39:11 PM
Let's see.............send tax money to private industry............sounds like Socialism to me. snicker.


Thomas Jefferson would be so proud of US!

and God will be so pleased too.


I won't think in your church
if you won't pray in my school.
 
2012-06-03 01:39:47 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: How else are we going to maintain profitability at our private prisons if we don't have a steady stream of raw materials?



Prison stocks are going up up up!
 
2012-06-03 01:40:59 PM

NewportBarGuy: Vouchers... This f*cking retarded idea has been around for 30 years. Still hasn't stopped being f*cking retarded.



but private industry needs your tax dollars!! they have stockholders to feed, ya' know.
 
2012-06-03 01:41:21 PM
Privatization, whether of the educational system, the prison system or the TSA is all about one thing: money. It's about getting more taxpayer money into the 'right' hands and out of the 'wrong' hands. It's not about efficiency or deficits or savings or lower taxes or better results. It's about profit for the few paid for by the taxes of the many.
 
2012-06-03 01:41:53 PM

phaseolus: I think it's fallout from the "New Math" fad of 40 years ago.


Why do old people get so exercised about "New Math"? From what I can glean it was basically word problems and I managed to master the concept without too much problem in the late 70s.

I forget... old people get exercised about anything that wasn't current within five years of their fifteenth birthday.
 
2012-06-03 01:42:01 PM

Mentat: The Republican War on Education continues.

Children should be confused when they learn. It means they're thinking. You should be aiming for that "ah-ha!" moment when they are no longer confused, not trying to hide them from it.




once you get God in school, then kids don't need to know anything else. God will be there to pay their bills when they become adults.
 
2012-06-03 01:42:55 PM

Wyalt Derp: "Calculate x. Show your work."

"x = 3. God did it."



Religion is the opiate of the uneducated masses (i.e. Republicans)
 
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