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(Reuters)   Louisiana defends privatization of education, and by "privatization of education" they really mean sending your kid to Sunday School 5 days per week where she will learn to count to potato in a windowless church bunker   (reuters.com) divider line 482
    More: Asinine, Sunday School, parochial schools, superintendent of schools, private schools, buyer beware, religious education, online school  
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5283 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Jun 2012 at 9:30 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-03 12:33:43 PM

StoneColdAtheist: Strip away all the duff and this is the bottom line. White Southerners will go to extreme lengths to avoid having their snowflakes have to rub elbows with "the laggers and the attractive and successful African-Americans". With this law change they've found a way that is (arguably) constitutionally defensible, since there is no mention of color or of what type religious schools are permitted.


Doh! I thought by using the form of the n-word that rymes with lagger that I'd escape the filter pawn.

*hangs head in shame*
 
2012-06-03 12:34:10 PM

forgotmydamnusername:
It's based on "infallible market" doctrine. Competition must make everything better, always. Never mind that competition can in fact lead to forms of inefficiency and perverse incentives where and when applied inappropriately. Never mind that where vouchers have been tried, as in Washington DC, they haven't improved educational outcomes.


The conservative response is basically that it wasn't conservative enough.

Just like "McCain lost because he wasn't conservative enough", "the financial collapse of 2007-2008 happened because banks weren't deregulated enough", etc.
 
2012-06-03 12:34:30 PM

Fart_Machine: According to the studies in the article, the gap between black and white students has significantly narrowed. Between differences in income is where the real gap is.


Yes, you are right, both of those are true. However perhaps what has happened is that the educational gap per wealth gap has grown, while the percentage of blacks who are poor has shrunk. Thus, it is possible (as has been reported in other studies) that there is a black-white gap which exists even after controlling for income/wealth. E.g. that lower-class whites may outperform middle-class blacks in standardized tests.
 
2012-06-03 12:35:38 PM

proteus_b: while the percentage of blacks who are poor has shrunk.


In fact this statement reads easier as "the percentage of poor who are blacks".
 
2012-06-03 12:36:07 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Portia: Charters have ways around this. They might have to accept kids, but they are permitted to kick them out FAR more easily than a regular public school.

Then the students can attend another school with their vouchers, they don't necessary have to go to back to public school.


But the argument is that the reason Charter Schools have better scores than public schools is because Charter Schools have the luxury to pick and choose who can attend in order to boost up the score. Which is a luxury, public schools don't have.

But someone Florida manages to Fark that up somehow and now some of the worst schools in Florida are Charter Schools.
 
2012-06-03 12:36:34 PM

DrewCurtisJr:
If you really want to know, and aren't just looking for excuses to dismiss any evidence that doesn't support your position, you can look it up here.


I also find this to be rather significant -

Black-White and Latino-White achievement gaps are larger in the MPCP than among FRL students in MPS

Also...

more MPCP students (3%) than MPS students (1%) opted out of testing
 
2012-06-03 12:37:00 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Portia: Charters have ways around this. They might have to accept kids, but they are permitted to kick them out FAR more easily than a regular public school.

Then the students can attend another school with their vouchers, they don't necessary have to go to back to public school.


Sure, if there is 1) a charter in the neighborhood or which provides transportation for a student to get there 2) with space in it 3) if it's during an enrollment period (many charters only accept new enrollments during certain points in the year) and 4) that will accept an expelled student--not all states require them to do so.
 
2012-06-03 12:37:21 PM
Charter schools: some do better, most do no better or worse, and some suck balls.

You know, just like all the f*cking schools out there. Some are good, some are bad, and some are in the middle.

But in a public school, you have a say by voting, by the PTA, or by running to join the school board yourself.

I know, it's crazy, but an active, educated voting public tends to do better than a group of folks who believe taxes and government are inherently bad.
 
2012-06-03 12:38:01 PM

forgotmydamnusername:
It's based on "infallible market" doctrine. Competition must make everything better, always. Never mind that competition can in fact lead to forms of inefficiency and perverse incentives where and when applied inappropriately. Never mind that where vouchers have been tried, as in Washington DC, they haven't improved educational outcomes.




Speaking of free market inefficiencies, what do you think happens when someone has a MONOPOLY? Such as public education.

Vouchers = choice.

You can't force people to make the "right choice," which is what government does when it forces you to send your kid to a public school, learn that the gay lifestyle is normal, and that people descended from monkeys.

Seems the only "choice" that liberals are interested in is the choice to terminate an innocent life, or the choice to stick your peepee in a poo hole.
 
2012-06-03 12:38:40 PM

DrewCurtisJr: Portia: Charters have ways around this. They might have to accept kids, but they are permitted to kick them out FAR more easily than a regular public school.

Then the students can attend another school with their vouchers, they don't necessary have to go to back to public school.


Most states allow charters to reject students based on former disciplinary issues, and that's precisely what charters tend to use as a reason to kick students out. So yeah, often the only option is to return to a regular public school.

And again, charters are public schools.
 
2012-06-03 12:39:46 PM

DrewCurtisJr: BarkingUnicorn: I suspect that most achievement differences are due to the fact that private schools can cherry-pick their students while public schools must accept all.

Only very poor students are eligible for vouchers and private schools that participate in the school choice program.


I find it hard to believe that only very poor students are eligible for vouchers. Students in poorly performing schools, perhaps. And yes, I'm aware of the correlation between poverty and academics.
 
2012-06-03 12:40:54 PM

proteus_b: Fart_Machine: So you believe everything magically got better after the Emancipation Proclamation was issued?

No, of course not, but I believe that black gender/low-income/other minority group performance has decline in the last half-century, despite the growing acceptance of blacks gender/low-income/other minority group in society (and their commensurate rise in average income).


This is the problem with your responses. You're singling out one minority group to prove your argument regarding that minority group. You're failing to take in consideration that other minority groups are facing the same problems

While I am in favor of integration

How generous of you . . .

and delighted that we have moved out of the stone age in regards to race relations, I am also reticent about the successes of integration.

Well, have you let the blacks know that you're okay with them living in your country?

But, seriously, let's talk about this. Functionally, do minority groups have the same access to resources (legal redress, education, career opportunity, and so on)? I'm not talking about equal language in the law. I'm talking about how laws are implemented. I'm talking about the actual function of society. Do minority groups have the same access?

The answer is no. So, if you're surprised that there's an educational gap then you're not paying attention.

Much of the black community, for better or worse, remains segregated.

Does White Flight ring a bell? No? Hmm. Gerrymandering? Ah. Perhaps you should, again, remind black people that you're tooooootally okay with them living in your country. That should encourage them to integrate further.

And the integration of a minority of blacks may have come at the expense of those who have not integrated

Wait - so blacks have successfully integrated (with your permission) yet remain segregated - but their integration is hurting others? Oh my goodness. You think black people are magic. This explains so much about your remaining comments.


---those living in environments with unwed parenthood approaching 90%,

You know what helps reduce the numbers of unwed parenthood? Access to adequate sex ed, birth control, and abortions. It's funny that you mention these things specifically because ALL of these things are currently being ruled back throughout the nation. But . . . you know . . . it's the blacks?

generational poverty and so on.

Really? And so on?

But let's talk about generational poverty. I'm not sure you've adequately expressed that you are personally okay with the blacks using your things. Perhaps if you just got the message out they would suddenly find adequate education to pull themselves out of poverty while gaining adequate access to sex ed, contraception, and abortion.

Furthermore, the ability of blacks to integrate

Do you mean assimilate?

(mostly, with some remnants of racism still present) into society as a whole allows any successful blacks which may emerge from these segregated communities to "leave" and join the happier, wealthier white America.

Again . . . have you told the magical black folk that live within your universe that you are okay with them using your things? Because . . . I think that would go really far . . .

Ffs.

encrypted-tbn2.google.com
 
2012-06-03 12:41:42 PM

Cats_Lie: forgotmydamnusername:
It's based on "infallible market" doctrine. Competition must make everything better, always. Never mind that competition can in fact lead to forms of inefficiency and perverse incentives where and when applied inappropriately. Never mind that where vouchers have been tried, as in Washington DC, they haven't improved educational outcomes.



Speaking of free market inefficiencies, what do you think happens when someone has a MONOPOLY? Such as public education.

Vouchers = choice.

You can't force people to make the "right choice," which is what government does when it forces you to send your kid to a public school, learn that the gay lifestyle is normal, and that people descended from monkeys.

Seems the only "choice" that liberals are interested in is the choice to terminate an innocent life, or the choice to stick your peepee in a poo hole.


Nice lie there. It sure would work out if private schools hadn't existed for, oh, I don't know, the entire history of the United States. And if some of those private schools weren't known as the most prestigious and exclusive of all the schools in the country.

There has always been a choice. There hasn't ever been a monopoly. If you have a problem with the public school in you area, again, there are ways to take up that issue. I didn't say it was an easy one but since you seem to believe charter schools are a choice and by that criterion alone makes them better, I don't take it you have a great attention to details.
 
2012-06-03 12:42:36 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Other schools approved for state-funded vouchers use social studies texts warning that liberals threaten global prosperity; Bible-based math books that don't cover modern concepts such as set theory; and biology texts built around refuting evolution.

We really just need to let a state or two do this. In 20 years we can use them as an example to anyone else. "Sure, go right ahead, if you want to look like Louisiana."

I would love to see a bio text that refutes denies evolution; that's gotta be some grade-A comedy. Bible-based math? WTF does that even mean?


I'm pretty sure you can already do that for Louisiana.
 
2012-06-03 12:43:02 PM

Cats_Lie: [trololololololololol]


Stop being boring.
 
2012-06-03 12:44:44 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: realmolo: This is why I'm convinced that public education needs to be handled *entirely* by the feds.

The individual states and municipalities can't be trusted. It's too easy for Bible-thumping idiots to take over local and state school boards, and ruin an entire generation of children. Never mind that local school administrators are some of the most incompetent bureaucrats in government.

At the national level, that kind of craziness doesn't fly At least, not yet.

If it's left up to the local districts, the biblefarkers have to infiltrate every local district in the country. If it's left up to the feds alone, the biblefarkers just have to get 51% of the federal government. It's a much more unstable situation. Federal mandates for one-size-fits-all directives (e.g. "no bible-based anything") while leaving the particulars up to the local districts is safer and allows for innovation. The side-effect of fundies infiltrating and establishing Christian Sharia where they can is unfortunate but unavoidable as long as we continue to pretend these religious whack-jobs are anything but cultists.



What would be nice is if certain private companies that deal with education would restrict what they do to a more local model - that would help contain the crazy as well. But they don't do that because it costs them more, so morons like the Texas State Textbook Committee end up ruining education across a big part of the country.
 
2012-06-03 12:44:48 PM

verbaltoxin:

Nice lie there. It sure would work out if private schools hadn't existed for, oh, I don't know, the entire history of the United States. And if some of those private schools weren't known as the most prestigious and exclusive of all the schools in the country.

There has always been a choice. There hasn't ever been a monopoly. If you have a problem with the public school in you area, again, there are ways to take up that issue. I didn't say it was an easy one but since you seem to believe charter schools are a choice and by that criterion alone makes them better, I don't take it you have a great attention to details.



You don't have a choice if you can't afford it. Vouchers just give the same freedom to the poor that we have always given to the rich. Why are you in favor of disadvantaging children from economically underprivileged families? What are you trying to protect?
 
2012-06-03 12:45:46 PM

proteus_b: However perhaps what has happened is that the educational gap per wealth gap has grown, while the percentage of blacks who are poor has shrunk. Thus, it is possible (as has been reported in other studies) that there is a black-white gap which exists even after controlling for income/wealth. E.g. that lower-class whites may outperform middle-class blacks in standardized tests.


However, perhaps what is happening is that you just keep moving the goalposts to make sure that blacks are less intelligent than whites. I think that's far more likely int his instance.
 
2012-06-03 12:45:58 PM
For all the folks who are up in arms about unions: are you likewise against the Chamber of Commerce?

Are you against professional organizations where management groups confer and discuss strategies and share information and what measures to take to lobbying for industry standards?

Unions are the same thing, save that they organize the labor side of things. Every time you shout how unions are killing business, you need to understand that if unions are killing business, so are every damn CoC and industry organization, in the same fashion. That includes the RIAA, that includes every agricultural and industry lobby, every conference of industry leaders. It's the SAME thing, save that it's management organizing, as opposed to labor.

If you oppose labor organizing, then why aren't you equally incensed at management organizing?
 
2012-06-03 12:46:35 PM

Mrtraveler01: But the argument is that the reason Charter Schools have better scores than public schools is because Charter Schools have the luxury to pick and choose who can attend in order to boost up the score. Which is a luxury, public schools don't have.


Like I wrote before this really isn't the case in Milwaukee.

And as I'm told in just about every thread about public schools, the standardized testing results are so important to public schools that public schools spend a tremendous amount of time "teaching to the test".
 
2012-06-03 12:46:52 PM

Cats_Lie: You don't have a choice if you can't afford it. Vouchers just give the same freedom to the poor that we have always given to the rich. Why are you in favor of disadvantaging children from economically underprivileged families? What are you trying to protect?


Nope. The fancy schools will just up their price high enough above the voucher to keep the riff raff out.
 
2012-06-03 12:47:32 PM

Cats_Lie: You can't force people to make the "right choice," which is what government does when it forces you to send your kid to a public school, learn that the gay lifestyle is normal, and that people descended from monkeys.


i.qkme.me
 
2012-06-03 12:48:07 PM

Weaver95: shpritz: Weaver95:
i'd at least like to know WHY conservatives believe private run education is better than public schools. what's the advantage of getting rid of the public school system?

I reckon "Government=BAD" dogma is the official line.

ok, but I wanted an actual reason, not the boiler plate propaganda non-answer.


My crackpot theory about this -- they don't even care. It's another IGMSFY thing.

A large share of Republican voters are already sending their kids to parochial schools or private academies. Here in WI there are many, many Lutheran and Catholic schools, and Walker's been trying to expand the existing voucher program to more counties and up into solidly middle class incomes. The parochial schools won't see much of this new voucher money unless they raise tuition or enrollment skyockets; they would be getting all the same tuition they've always collected.

In those cases the voucher money goes into the parents' pockets. It's a kickback to likely Republican voters funded by siphoning from public education budgets.
 
2012-06-03 12:48:14 PM

12349876: Cats_Lie: You don't have a choice if you can't afford it. Vouchers just give the same freedom to the poor that we have always given to the rich. Why are you in favor of disadvantaging children from economically underprivileged families? What are you trying to protect?

Nope. The fancy schools will just up their price high enough above the voucher to keep the riff raff out.


So you prefer a system where the poor have exactly one choice, to rely on the government?
 
2012-06-03 12:49:53 PM

Bontesla:

encrypted-tbn2.google.com


Let's see, we have had around, what, 3 centuries or so of enlightened civilization, more or less?
so 4,000,000,000 years vs. 300 years, or 300/4,000,000,000 = 0.000000075 enlightened

Or just considering the 2,000,000 years of Human evolution, 300/2,000,000=0.00015 enlightened

Yup, he's pretty much acting like it.
 
2012-06-03 12:50:03 PM

Mrtraveler01: But the argument is that the reason Charter Schools have better scores than public schools is because Charter Schools have the luxury to pick and choose who can attend in order to boost up the score. Which is a luxury, public schools don't have.


No. Florida law does NOT allow charters to pick and choose whom they accept.
 
2012-06-03 12:50:04 PM

DrewCurtisJr: BarkingUnicorn: I suspect that most achievement differences are due to the fact that private schools can cherry-pick their students while public schools must accept all.

Only very poor students are eligible for vouchers and private schools that participate in the school choice program.


Oh, another thing: even among financially poor students there are those who are bright and will be cherry-picked, leaving the public schools with the toughest cases and less money.
 
2012-06-03 12:50:11 PM

Wyalt Derp: dababler: Are Republicans really against "set theory" in math!?

Anything that's "just a theory" doesn't belong in the Republican classroom, only facts, from the Bible (or other documents by the same author, eg the Constitution).


But, set theory is totally not really a "theory". WTF I'm tired of people who are not scholars in a subject deciding what's best taught in said subject.
 
2012-06-03 12:51:11 PM
Does "Bible Math" explain how Noah managed to fit 2 of the every 8+ million known land species onto a single boat so they wouldn't drown in a worldwide flood? 16 million animals gathered from every corner of the world ON FOOT, crammed onto one boat made of wood by hand -- what's NOT to love about that math equation?

When you're a desert-dwelling, sheep-hearing sand cult, your world is very small and you can believe this shiat. Your entire world is the valley you were born and will die in. But in the modern era, you literally have to brainwash your children and protect them from knowledge in order to keep them believing the same bullshiat.
 
2012-06-03 12:51:34 PM

Bontesla: Again . . . have you told the magical black folk that live within your universe that you are okay with them using your things? Because . . . I think that would go really far . . .


Magical black folk? The next door neighbors on both sides of my house where I grew up are black. And except for the color of their skin, have rather little in common with poor blacks in the ghetto. My point is that blacks who are successful move out of the ghettoes and the positive role models they might have been do not exist. Well perhaps they serve as positive role models to suburban whites that blacks are not all just a bunch of gang-bangers with speed, but are actually equally capable of being successful in all walks of life. Which is good. But removing the positive role models from the black communities is probably not good for those communities.

You sound kind of hysterical. I just saw this movie about the subject.
 
2012-06-03 12:51:35 PM

proteus_b: Fart_Machine: According to the studies in the article, the gap between black and white students has significantly narrowed. Between differences in income is where the real gap is.

Yes, you are right, both of those are true. However perhaps what has happened is that the educational gap per wealth gap has grown, while the percentage of blacks who are poor has shrunk. Thus, it is possible (as has been reported in other studies) that there is a black-white gap which exists even after controlling for income/wealth. E.g. that lower-class whites may outperform middle-class blacks in standardized tests.


You keep wanting to focus on the race aspect here. Black and white students are about on par with each other. If what you say is correct then poor whites would be vastly outperforming their black counterparts and that isn't the case.
 
2012-06-03 12:52:12 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Mrtraveler01: But the argument is that the reason Charter Schools have better scores than public schools is because Charter Schools have the luxury to pick and choose who can attend in order to boost up the score. Which is a luxury, public schools don't have.

No. Florida law does NOT allow charters to pick and choose whom they accept.


The point is in that some states charters do not have to accept a kid who has been expelled from his/her previous school, thus alleviating themselves of some of the worst troublemakers. That allows them a certain level of choice that a regular public school is not permitted to have. I don't know the case in Florida.
 
2012-06-03 12:52:15 PM

DrewCurtisJr: And as I'm told in just about every thread about public schools, the standardized testing results are so important to public schools that public schools spend a tremendous amount of time "teaching to the test".


I wonder what most people who say "teaching to the test" mean. I wonder if they envision teachers spoon feeding answers and/or material. I don't see that going on in schools so much as I see teachers keeping learning at a very low cognitive level. This creates a very boring and dry atmosphere that actually demeans the abilities of students and sets up a vicious cycle of low expectations and failure.

That being said, one of my many problems with standardized testing is that most math, writing, and science tests aren't actually measuring math, writing, and science knowledge or abilities. They are simply reading comprehension tests that happen to have math, writing, and science as the content. Generally speaking, i would say math is guiltier than the others.
 
2012-06-03 12:53:34 PM

orclover: BarkingUnicorn: Curious: i was ask the other day why should parents with kids in private schools have to pay for public schools.

Why should childless people have to pay for public schools?

Same reason they should pay for prisons, streetlights they dont use, roads they will never drive on, mental hospitals that they will never check into and many many other things. If they dont pay for them, they will be farking eaten by one of their fellow citizens who needs those services. Its called society, its not all about just you now. If you dont like it, go join the flotilla offshore and enjoy the Andrew Ryan Dream come true.


Seriously, you, get the fark out of my country.


It was a rhetorical question, which you answered very well. Seems I accidentally deleted the ID of the Farker to whom I posed the question, so it seemed as if I posed his question too.
 
2012-06-03 12:53:51 PM

Cats_Lie: 12349876: Cats_Lie: You don't have a choice if you can't afford it. Vouchers just give the same freedom to the poor that we have always given to the rich. Why are you in favor of disadvantaging children from economically underprivileged families? What are you trying to protect?

Nope. The fancy schools will just up their price high enough above the voucher to keep the riff raff out.

So you prefer a system where the poor have exactly one choice, to rely on the government?


The poor are still dependent on the government for that voucher.
 
2012-06-03 12:53:51 PM

NetOwl: Weaver95: NetOwl: These religious "schools" are child abuse.

Most stupid Republican ideas are just bad, but this will ruin thousands of kids' lives. Denying a kid education destroys the kid at the most fundamental level. It's sick.

well...done well, I don't have any philosophical objection to a religious based education - it CAN work, if done right.

what I don't understand tho is the desire to outsource public education. what advantage is there for doing so? how can we be sure that a private company can do the job better? how do we even measure 'better'? what choices will poor kids be given under this new system of education, and how will it be paid for?

I'm not objecting to all religious schools (at least not here). We all know the stereotypical Academy Of St. So-and-So, the patron saint of slapping kids with rulers. That can produce educated, responsible, philosophically astute adults. I suspect that being exposed to Catholic theology class can even act as a sort of history lesson as kids move on to the kinds of thought that replaced scholasticism.

Catholic schools force kids to think, even if the thinking is often a rebellion against the Catholic teachings. They also manage to keep the religious stuff separate from the regular subjects, so the kids don't end up woefully ignorant.


What scares me is the way these fundamentalist schools that take pride in propagating ideas that are wrong. I've seen kids who went through this kind of system before, and they were dangerously close to being lost causes. Even if they weren't, they were already behind their peers in basically everything (except for spelling).

Being that far behind when you're in high school means you can't catch up. You're denied opportunities, such as the opportuniy to go to a good college.


Yup. I'm a product of one of those fundamentalist schools, but fortunately I've recovered since leaving for public school, and then college, and then graduate school, over ten years ago.

I've never attended a Catholic school, but from what I've seen, you're right about this. Most the people I've known who went to Catholic school -many of whom are still practicing Catholics- have active intellects and are conversant with the world's various bodies of knowledge. They have no problem talking about things like evolution and gay culture and other things that one might think would be absolutely taboo to Catholics. To them, it's just another thing in the world to learn about.

Now, my old fundie friends from middle school . . . *sigh* . . . I'm pretty sure most of them still don't believe in evolution and still think the Founding Fathers were a bunch of fundies just like them. I can't imagine that any of them are very well-read, unless we're talking about C.S. Lewis and the Left Behind series. Global warming? No, God wouldn't allow that to happen. Most of them have gone on to college (of course -it was a private school), but I think I'm the only one who has gone into academia.

And it's funny that you bring up spelling, because spelling and grammar were the only English instruction we had. Sure, we read short stories that taught biblical morals and stuff, but it wasn't until I went to public school in 10th grade that I actually started studying *literature*. Again, I like to think I've caught up and recovered by now at least.

So yeah, I guess the moral of my little story here is that not all religiously-based schooling is bad, just fundie religiously-based schooling.
 
2012-06-03 12:55:15 PM

Truman Burbank: What would be nice is if certain private companies that deal with education would restrict what they do to a more local model - that would help contain the crazy as well. But they don't do that because it costs them more, so morons like the Texas State Textbook Committee end up ruining education across a big part of the country.


I feel like the emergence of online textbooks has to change that game eventually, since the Texas cults get away with leveraging the printing costs to their advantage. When you take that away, it opens up the possibility to choose textbooks on criteria other than what is cheapest.
 
2012-06-03 12:56:35 PM

Cats_Lie: 12349876: Cats_Lie: You don't have a choice if you can't afford it. Vouchers just give the same freedom to the poor that we have always given to the rich. Why are you in favor of disadvantaging children from economically underprivileged families? What are you trying to protect?

Nope. The fancy schools will just up their price high enough above the voucher to keep the riff raff out.

So you prefer a system where the poor have exactly one choice, to rely on the government?


Voucher systems also rely on the government. Or are you one of these people who wants to keep the government out of Medicare?
 
2012-06-03 12:56:38 PM

Fart_Machine: If what you say is correct then poor whites would be vastly outperforming their black counterparts and that isn't the case.


Why vastly?

Christ, I entered the thread with a snarky comment but when everyone pushes one way I feel inclined to push back another way. I believe that the black-white performance gap, whatever its magnitude (vast, not vast) is not fully explained by income gaps. I think this is well borne out by data and no one has contradicted this (the article you posted doesn't really have enough information, and that clearly wasn't the intent of the study, but rather why the rich-poor performance gap is growing, and what is causing that). Instead, people are implying that I am racist, which is rather bizarre. I'm as liberal as can be in matters of race.
 
2012-06-03 12:56:47 PM

masterone41: So which system wins the Spelling Bee every year?

its not the public one


Are spelling bee accomplishments the best measurement of overall academic performance of students?
 
2012-06-03 12:57:00 PM

Cats_Lie: verbaltoxin:

Nice lie there. It sure would work out if private schools hadn't existed for, oh, I don't know, the entire history of the United States. And if some of those private schools weren't known as the most prestigious and exclusive of all the schools in the country.

There has always been a choice. There hasn't ever been a monopoly. If you have a problem with the public school in you area, again, there are ways to take up that issue. I didn't say it was an easy one but since you seem to believe charter schools are a choice and by that criterion alone makes them better, I don't take it you have a great attention to details.


You don't have a choice if you can't afford it. Vouchers just give the same freedom to the poor that we have always given to the rich. Why are you in favor of disadvantaging children from economically underprivileged families? What are you trying to protect?


I like the Glenn Beck questions there, but a link I posted already goes over how charter schools aren't any better than the competition. Some are great, yes, but they, like private schools, are more exclusive and expensive.

So again, the best choices often go to those whom can afford it. And those who provide the resources for it to run capably, such as the case for the better public schools.

But no, just go ahead with your righteous indignation. I'm sure you'll get to the government bad, taxes bad arguments shortly.
 
2012-06-03 12:57:03 PM

masterone41: So which system wins the Spelling Bee every year?

its not the public one


Good thing we built an economy based on memorizing the dictionary!
 
2012-06-03 12:58:22 PM

masterone41: So which system wins the Spelling Bee every year?

its not the public one


They also seem to be Indian too.

Anyone else noticing that?
 
2012-06-03 12:58:40 PM

Portia: The point is in that some states charters do not have to accept a kid who has been expelled from his/her previous school, thus alleviating themselves of some of the worst troublemakers. That allows them a certain level of choice that a regular public school is not permitted to have. I don't know the case in Florida.


Basically, charters in Florida that have a particular mission statement, e.g., to assist those likely to drop out, to serve those at a certain age or grade level, to assist the developmentally disabled, etc. can target those students. Additionally, they can set reasonable academic standards, but the approving board is quite picky about what they will accept as reasonable.

I get your point though, and I even mentioned above that charters can easily kick students out for "disciplinary" problems, thus leaving the kid with no other option than to return to regular public school.
 
2012-06-03 12:58:57 PM

proteus_b: Bontesla: The educational gap also falls along socioeconomic status

This, however, is not true.


encrypted-tbn2.google.com


Bontesla: In other words, the common denominator among "under-performers" is not their blackness but their distinction as being a minority group member.

This is also not true, generically. Some minority group members perform better than the average. An obvious example is Asian-Americans.


I said: the common denominator among "under-performers" is not their blackness but their distinction as being a minority group member.

What you think I said: All minorities under-perform.
 
2012-06-03 12:59:58 PM

Cats_Lie: You don't have a choice if you can't afford it. Vouchers just give the same freedom to the poor that we have always given to the rich. Why are you in favor of disadvantaging children from economically underprivileged families? What are you trying to protect?


Funny how in right wing Fundie logic, that doesn't apply to healthcare.

/Feeding the troll.
 
2012-06-03 01:00:21 PM

BarkingUnicorn: orclover: BarkingUnicorn: Curious: i was ask the other day why should parents with kids in private schools have to pay for public schools.

Why should childless people have to pay for public schools?

Same reason they should pay for prisons, streetlights they dont use, roads they will never drive on, mental hospitals that they will never check into and many many other things. If they dont pay for them, they will be farking eaten by one of their fellow citizens who needs those services. Its called society, its not all about just you now. If you dont like it, go join the flotilla offshore and enjoy the Andrew Ryan Dream come true.


Seriously, you, get the fark out of my country.

It was a rhetorical question, which you answered very well. Seems I accidentally deleted the ID of the Farker to whom I posed the question, so it seemed as if I posed his question too.


Ah, sorry, was still starting my coffee routine so am a bit biatchy. Still biatchy. Ok I leave for a few minutes and this place turns to troll fark-fest 2012......gonna go fry some rice now.

Peace out.
 
2012-06-03 01:00:28 PM

masterone41: Portia: masterone41: So which system wins the Spelling Bee every year?

its not the public one

Are spelling bee accomplishments the best measurement of overall academic performance of students?

lets check

Open to every one

No Government involvement

I say yes


Account created: 2012-06-02 10:07:58

Oh man there is going to be a flood of these retards until November.
 
2012-06-03 01:00:48 PM

masterone41: 12349876: Cats_Lie: 12349876: Cats_Lie: You don't have a choice if you can't afford it. Vouchers just give the same freedom to the poor that we have always given to the rich. Why are you in favor of disadvantaging children from economically underprivileged families? What are you trying to protect?

Nope. The fancy schools will just up their price high enough above the voucher to keep the riff raff out.

So you prefer a system where the poor have exactly one choice, to rely on the government?

The poor are still dependent on the government for that voucher.

whats funny here is to watch the feet

given Vouchers, in DC, a LIBERAL Oasis

they run to private schools with their vouchers

ouch


It was a failure though. They were caught cheating to up their scores.
 
2012-06-03 01:00:51 PM

Fart_Machine: proteus_b: Bontesla: The educational gap also falls along socioeconomic status

This, however, is not true.

Education Gap Grows Between Rich and Poor, Studies Say


Thank you!!!! :)

I tend to run a bit behind in my replies - so thank you very much for responding before I could.
 
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