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(Reuters)   Louisiana defends privatization of education, and by "privatization of education" they really mean sending your kid to Sunday School 5 days per week where she will learn to count to potato in a windowless church bunker   (reuters.com) divider line 482
    More: Asinine, Sunday School, parochial schools, superintendent of schools, private schools, buyer beware, religious education, online school  
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5282 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Jun 2012 at 9:30 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-03 11:01:47 AM

proteus_b: I'm not sure why this factual statement of mine is interpreted as wanting to "exterminate" blacks. I simply made the irrefutable comment that they do not, on average perform well in school relative to whites, even after controlling for factors such as income and environment. While I may have stated this in a troll-tastic manner, I find it likely that any black farkers who have been successful in life are aware of the under-performance of blacks as a whole and consciously changed their behavior in a positive manner. Whether or not they express this view in polite company is another manner. Perhaps they're some sort of silent majority [minority].


I know I was meaning to put you on Ignore and this kind of post reminds me of why. Bing! Adios, asshole.
 
2012-06-03 11:02:12 AM
Are Republicans really against "set theory" in math!?
 
2012-06-03 11:02:20 AM
i was ask the other day why should parents with kids in private schools have to pay for public schools.

this wasn't the answer i gave nor is it.

also living close to new orleans before and after katrina i can assure you that any "lessons" learned about charter schools need to be looked at closely. there are many factors at work beyond just swapping school types.
 
2012-06-03 11:02:35 AM

NetOwl: These religious "schools" are child abuse.

Most stupid Republican ideas are just bad, but this will ruin thousands of kids' lives. Denying a kid education destroys the kid at the most fundamental level. It's sick.


You don't really think the GOP cares, do you? 6 months from now, the legislators will get their campaign contribution checks and the lobbyists will get their cut of the voucher money. Combined with the prospect of force-feeding right wing propaganda to children, which is likely the only way the GOP will survive long term, this seems like the perfect plan.
 
2012-06-03 11:04:39 AM

Mrtraveler01: apoptotic: FTA:The school willing to accept the most voucher students -- 314 -- is New Living Word in Ruston, which has a top-ranked basketball team but no library. Students spend most of the day watching TVs in bare-bones classrooms. Each lesson consists of an instructional DVD that intersperses Biblical verses with subjects such chemistry or composition.

Cripes, they've figured out a way to get state education funding while getting rid of teachers altogether.

I know. This is a prime example of why we need some standard in education (preferably on the national level because states let stupid shiat like this fly)


It's revealing that the school which needs the most voucher students is the one with an utterly appalling way of "educating" kids. Even with vouchers, I doubt this hellhole will be able to survive.
 
2012-06-03 11:05:10 AM
I can't wait until the inevitable opening of a

clambam: NetOwl: proteus_b: Serious Black: Actually, the best school systems in the world, including Finland and South Korea, offer absolutely no school choice and have completely public school systems. If we're supposed to learn lessons from what has been accomplished in other countries, school choice is not a lesson we should be learning.

Actually, Finland and South Korea have virtually no black people, so many of our problems are not actually represented in those systems.

Fark you.

Seriously, fark you.

It might have been fair to say "Finland and South Korea are homogeneous societies with few economically or socially-challenged minorities to bring down scholastic averages." But of course that's not what he said, so your response is perfectly appropriate.

The amazing thing is, if you take the socially and economically disadvantaged, both urban and rural, out of the equation in this country, our educational system is second to none. There is a reason why Microsoft, IBM, Apple, Facebook, Adobe and scores of other innovative business concerns were founded in this country and not, say, France. There's a reason why students come from all over the world to attend American colleges and universities and not the other way around. Our educational system kicks ass and takes names. The repub program of undercutting an institution that has made America the greatest nation in the history of the universe, militarily, economically, socially and politically, beggars the imagination in terms of foolishness and the triumph of ideology over common sense. These people are retarded, and they want everyone else to be retarded too.


--------------------------------

This. x100000
 
2012-06-03 11:05:40 AM

dababler: Are Republicans really against "set theory" in math!?


Anything that's "just a theory" doesn't belong in the Republican classroom, only facts, from the Bible (or other documents by the same author, eg the Constitution).
 
2012-06-03 11:05:50 AM

proteus_b: on average perform well in school relative to whites,


Yes because blacks have had equal schools to whites all along.
 
2012-06-03 11:06:35 AM

clambam: I know I was meaning to put you on Ignore and this kind of post reminds me of why. Bing! Adios, asshole.


I guess it's too late, but just so everyone else knows, Ignore lists are the tool that libs use to keep God out of their brains.
 
2012-06-03 11:06:36 AM

Happy Hours:
I'm not sure how a math book can be Bible-based.

There's nothing in it which contradicts math. There's not much mathematical in it at all.


I take it you haven't read the part about the Ark.
 
2012-06-03 11:06:50 AM
I invite Bill Gates, Steve Wozniak, Sergey Brin, and Larry Page to open a few voucher schools in Louisiana.

Then we invite some MBA's in to make sure the schools are run as effectively as possible.

And keep the education PhD's to a minimum. The school systems have been run by them for a century and just gotten less effective while raising the standards for teachers to the point where you need a masters in education to teach anything specialized.
 
2012-06-03 11:09:11 AM

wildcardjack: raising the standards for teachers


Cause that's such a bad thing. We should be trying to get the most qualified people to teach. We should be trying to get people with PhD's to teach high school. And there are high school teachers with PhD's in the fields they teach, so such people are around.
 
2012-06-03 11:09:23 AM

WhyteRaven74: Yes because blacks have had equal schools to whites all along.


Noone is making that claim. However, blacks in the same schools as whites perform less well than whites (on average). Blacks from middle-income families perform less well than whites from low-income families on standardized tests. Now whether or not this is a problem is another argument. Why this is is also beside the case.
 
2012-06-03 11:10:16 AM
This is what US corporations used to do to third world countries. They would get into tremendous debt and the corporation would say "We can make it all better if you let us privatize your water supply or your energy supply." Then corporations would make a killing while tripling the price of water to poor people who couldn't afford water to begin with.

At least now we know what rich people in this country think of us. We're third world and we need to be exploited until we bleed.
 
2012-06-03 11:11:06 AM
Finally a choice in education? Sweet!

zibbet-production.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2012-06-03 11:11:10 AM

Weaver95: DrewCurtisJr: Weaver95: what I don't understand tho is the desire to outsource public education. what advantage is there for doing so?

It can be less expensive, provide a better education, and gives parents a choice in how their kids are educated.

but would it be less expensive and provide a better education? most conservatives don't seem to care about verifying that private companies are held accountable to consumers. institutionally speaking, the GOP seems unable to admit that private companies need to be watched just as closely as public unions...


The idea is that parents will watch the school and transfer their kids out if they don't like the results.
 
2012-06-03 11:13:31 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Weaver95: DrewCurtisJr: Weaver95: what I don't understand tho is the desire to outsource public education. what advantage is there for doing so?

It can be less expensive, provide a better education, and gives parents a choice in how their kids are educated.

but would it be less expensive and provide a better education? most conservatives don't seem to care about verifying that private companies are held accountable to consumers. institutionally speaking, the GOP seems unable to admit that private companies need to be watched just as closely as public unions...

The idea is that parents will watch the school and transfer their kids out if they don't like the results.


That's a pretty stupid idea, then, isn't it.
 
2012-06-03 11:14:26 AM

theteacher: DrewCurtisJr: Weaver95: what I don't understand tho is the desire to outsource public education. what advantage is there for doing so?

It can be less expensive, provide a better education, and gives parents a choice in how their kids are educated.

Look at the results from Connecticut. Connecticut had a great Charter school program. It was radical until the companies began co-opting them. The charter school system came into place in Connecticut because they said they could provide an excellent education for way less money...and this year they were crying poor. They discovered they COULD NOT provide a better education for less money.


Interesting. The ones I know about in Florida are run by people like real estate developers who treat it like a business.

And this strategy has shown that some of these school perform even worse than the neighboring public schools.

Link
 
2012-06-03 11:16:15 AM

proteus_b: I also question the nature of "over four hundred years". "The country" itself is less than two-hundred and fifty years old. The institution of slavery in the United States lasted from the 17th to the 19th centuries. Frederick Douglass learned how to read, despite the thousands of years of under-educated ancestors.


You just can't facepalm hard enough here. It was illegal to teach slaves to read and write. Douglass was an escaped slave who never would have been permitted to do either while he was in the South.
 
2012-06-03 11:17:23 AM

Weaver95: but would it be less expensive and provide a better education? most conservatives don't seem to care about verifying that private companies are held accountable to consumers. institutionally speaking, the GOP seems unable to admit that private companies need to be watched just as closely as public unions...


By its very nature it demands accountability. If a private company is providing an education that parents don't want then parents will stop sending their children to the school and it will go out of business.


And it doesn't bother me that some of the schools might be wacky. Giving people freedom allows them to sometimes make dumb choices. Do we take away freedom of speech because it often leads to people saying things we disagree with?

 
2012-06-03 11:17:40 AM

balloot: I can't wait until the inevitable opening of a clambam: NetOwl: proteus_b: Serious Black: Actually, the best school systems in the world, including Finland and South Korea, offer absolutely no school choice and have completely public school systems. If we're supposed to learn lessons from what has been accomplished in other countries, school choice is not a lesson we should be learning.

Actually, Finland and South Korea have virtually no black people, so many of our problems are not actually represented in those systems.

Fark you.

Seriously, fark you.

It might have been fair to say "Finland and South Korea are homogeneous societies with few economically or socially-challenged minorities to bring down scholastic averages." But of course that's not what he said, so your response is perfectly appropriate.

The amazing thing is, if you take the socially and economically disadvantaged, both urban and rural, out of the equation in this country, our educational system is second to none. There is a reason why Microsoft, IBM, Apple, Facebook, Adobe and scores of other innovative business concerns were founded in this country and not, say, France. There's a reason why students come from all over the world to attend American colleges and universities and not the other way around. Our educational system kicks ass and takes names. The repub program of undercutting an institution that has made America the greatest nation in the history of the universe, militarily, economically, socially and politically, beggars the imagination in terms of foolishness and the triumph of ideology over common sense. These people are retarded, and they want everyone else to be retarded too.

--------------------------------

This. x100000


I'll see your "this" and raise you eleventy billion more "this".
 
2012-06-03 11:17:44 AM

WhyteRaven74: We should be trying to get people with PhD's to teach high school.


Don't worry, with the over-supply of PhDs, we already are starting to have PhDs teaching high-school. Anecdotally, however, they tend to give up after a few years and go to industry.
 
2012-06-03 11:19:00 AM

DrewCurtisJr: Weaver95: but would it be less expensive and provide a better education? most conservatives don't seem to care about verifying that private companies are held accountable to consumers. institutionally speaking, the GOP seems unable to admit that private companies need to be watched just as closely as public unions...

Yes. Milwaukee has had a large voucher program for a while. The results are mixed on testing but overall the kids do about the same, and both public school and voucher students test scores have been rising. Voucher students are also more likely to graduate from high school and attend college. So while vouchers aren't some miracle the system is cheaper and it has been far from a disaster.


I suspect that most achievement differences are due to the fact that private schools can cherry-pick their students while public schools must accept all.
 
2012-06-03 11:19:26 AM
"We try to stay away from all those things that might confuse our children," Carrier said.

Critical thinking is bad for kids. The world needs ditch diggers too. I guess Louisiana is in competition with Kansas over who can produce the most serfs.
 
2012-06-03 11:19:44 AM

proteus_b: we already are starting to have PhDs teaching high-school.


There have been PhD's teaching high school for ages. As odd as it may sound, that's all some want to do. I had a Latin teacher in high school who never wanted to do anything but teach high school, but all the same he went and got himself a PhD in classics.
 
2012-06-03 11:21:00 AM
The real goal isn't so much religious indoctrination, though that's what the fundies believe it is. The real purpose of this is to make Americans who aren't rich ignorant. They switch to vouchers, eventually public schools shut down, then the vouchers get eliminated. If you can't afford the 20k a year to send your kids to school, then they can go to work, because child labor laws will be repealed.
 
2012-06-03 11:21:18 AM

BarkingUnicorn: I suspect that most achievement differences are due to the fact that private schools can cherry-pick their students while public schools must accept all.


Ding, ding ding!

We have a winner!
 
2012-06-03 11:21:31 AM

Fart_Machine: You just can't facepalm hard enough here. It was illegal to teach slaves to read and write. Douglass was an escaped slave who never would have been permitted to do either while he was in the South.


It's possible to facepalm. Yes, it was illegal to educate slaves, but this was hundreds of years ago. Has black performance in school monotonically improved in the years following 1865, indicating that "it simply hasn't been long enough yet", or has black performance in school collapsed following the civil rights movement, along with the traditional black family structure?
 
2012-06-03 11:22:07 AM

apoptotic: FTA:The school willing to accept the most voucher students -- 314 -- is New Living Word in Ruston, which has a top-ranked basketball team but no library. Students spend most of the day watching TVs in bare-bones classrooms. Each lesson consists of an instructional DVD that intersperses Biblical verses with subjects such chemistry or composition.

Cripes, they've figured out a way to get state education funding while getting rid of teachers altogether.


So, basically, college-prep courses for future LSU Tigers?
 
2012-06-03 11:22:17 AM
More of that bullshiat "Parental Choice" is coming out too.

You already have a choice as a parent of where to send your kids. Home school, private school, public school. You have a choice. You may not have the means.

The answer of course vouchers. These vouchers are treated as a panacea, when all they do is siphon public money into private pockets, while uninvolved parents continue to stay uninvolved and expect the brand new charter or private school (since the good private schools still aren't accessible with a voucher) to fix all their kid's educational problems.
 
2012-06-03 11:23:15 AM
Ok, I'm tired of this drivel.

The reason they want vouchers is because they pay for education through taxes but don't use it. They want credit for that to go to the school of their choice.

Which is against the whole point of having a public education system.

/it's always about money, durr
 
2012-06-03 11:23:17 AM

proteus_b: has black performance in school collapsed following the civil rights movement


Go back to the decade previous and you might have something.
 
2012-06-03 11:23:32 AM

WhyteRaven74: wildcardjack: raising the standards for teachers

Cause that's such a bad thing. We should be trying to get the most qualified people to teach. We should be trying to get people with PhD's to teach high school. And there are high school teachers with PhD's in the fields they teach, so such people are around.


No no no... Having a PhD in chemistry teaching chem is okay, its the PhD in EDUCATION, as I posted, you need to keep out of the schools. Just don't start requiring PhDs when a BS and a few years of experience in the corporate world would be fine. I encourage people who have worked in the real world to take up education as a second career.
 
2012-06-03 11:23:34 AM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Other schools approved for state-funded vouchers use social studies texts warning that liberals threaten global prosperity; Bible-based math books that don't cover modern concepts such as set theory; and biology texts built around refuting evolution.

We really just need to let a state or two do this. In 20 years we can use them as an example to anyone else. "Sure, go right ahead, if you want to look like Louisiana."

I would love to see a bio text that refutes denies evolution; that's gotta be some grade-A comedy. Bible-based math? WTF does that even mean?


It's all in "cubits" and "hands".
 
2012-06-03 11:24:15 AM

beta_plus: Awww, subby and Fark Libs are all butt hurt because those kids are going to learn how to read and they can't.


0/10.

See me after class.
 
2012-06-03 11:24:31 AM

proteus_b: Fart_Machine: You just can't facepalm hard enough here. It was illegal to teach slaves to read and write. Douglass was an escaped slave who never would have been permitted to do either while he was in the South.

It's possible to facepalm. Yes, it was illegal to educate slaves, but this was hundreds of years ago. Has black performance in school monotonically improved in the years following 1865, indicating that "it simply hasn't been long enough yet", or has black performance in school collapsed following the civil rights movement, along with the traditional black family structure?


So you believe everything magically got better after the Emancipation Proclamation was issued?
 
2012-06-03 11:25:16 AM

WhyteRaven74: There have been PhD's teaching high school for ages. As odd as it may sound, that's all some want to do. I had a Latin teacher in high school who never wanted to do anything but teach high school, but all the same he went and got himself a PhD in classics.


I never even thought to check the credentials of my own high school Latin teacher, but now that I think of it, the authoritative manner in which she spoke of the Latin language, people and history leads me to believe that she too may have also been doctored in classics. Maybe not, she didn't insist on being referred to as "doctor" (although probably most PhDs don't really want to be known as "doctor").

The main regret though, is that she did not teach us Latin dance---rumba, son, pachanga. I am trying to fill in these gaps in my education now at this late stage.
 
2012-06-03 11:28:32 AM

Curious: i was ask the other day why should parents with kids in private schools have to pay for public schools.


Why should childless people have to pay for public schools?
 
2012-06-03 11:28:59 AM

proteus_b: clambam: I know I was meaning to put you on Ignore and this kind of post reminds me of why. Bing! Adios, asshole.

I guess it's too late, but just so everyone else knows, Ignore lists are the tool that libs use to keep God out of their brains.


Actually, it's more to keep tools from our threads.
 
2012-06-03 11:31:27 AM

Fart_Machine: So you believe everything magically got better after the Emancipation Proclamation was issued?


No, of course not, but I believe that black performance has decline in the last half-century, despite the growing acceptance of blacks in society (and their commensurate rise in average income). While I am in favor of integration and delighted that we have moved out of the stone age in regards to race relations, I am also reticent about the successes of integration. Much of the black community, for better or worse, remains segregated. And the integration of a minority of blacks may have come at the expense of those who have not integrated---those living in environments with unwed parenthood approaching 90%, generational poverty and so on. Furthermore, the ability of blacks to integrate (mostly, with some remnants of racism still present) into society as a whole allows any successful blacks which may emerge from these segregated communities to "leave" and join the happier, wealthier white America.
 
2012-06-03 11:31:37 AM
I've never heard of any of this shiat, even in the Catholic schools down here. Where the fark are all these schools?
 
2012-06-03 11:32:56 AM

WhyteRaven74: wildcardjack: raising the standards for teachers

Cause that's such a bad thing. We should be trying to get the most qualified people to teach. We should be trying to get people with PhD's to teach high school. And there are high school teachers with PhD's in the fields they teach, so such people are around.


But not nearly enough, and there never will be many. If you're a hard-core software engineer, how long could you teach kids which end of a mouse is up before you went insane?
 
2012-06-03 11:35:49 AM

LectertheChef: The real goal isn't so much religious indoctrination, though that's what the fundies believe it is. The real purpose of this is to make Americans who aren't rich ignorant. They switch to vouchers, eventually public schools shut down, then the vouchers get eliminated. If you can't afford the 20k a year to send your kids to school, then they can go to work, because child labor laws will be repealed.


This may be true, but you have to believe that religious institutions would love nothing more than millions of young poorly educated people living in squalor. I can't think of a better way for them to improve their declining memberships.
 
2012-06-03 11:36:15 AM

BarkingUnicorn: I suspect that most achievement differences are due to the fact that private schools can cherry-pick their students while public schools must accept all.


Only very poor students are eligible for vouchers and private schools that participate in the school choice program.
 
2012-06-03 11:36:42 AM
This is a back-end approach to state control of all schools. First you close the public schools, then give the money to the private schools, then you say if you want more, you have to do this thing (since I'm paying for it and all that). Such as accept these learning-disabled children or teach a certain curriculum. And basically all schools will be public schools.

As goes all government funded endeavors.
 
2012-06-03 11:36:51 AM

Weaver95:
i'd at least like to know WHY conservatives believe private run education is better than public schools. what's the advantage of getting rid of the public school system?



Public schools can't have religious instruction, as it's a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. Therefore, getting rid of public schools would allow for conservatives to push their religion on all kids who are in the privatized schools.

There's also some Ayn Rand-style "hurf durf if it isn't a profit-generating enterprise it's worthless to society" thrown in.
 
2012-06-03 11:37:42 AM

beta_plus: Awww, subby and Fark Libs are all butt hurt because those kids are going to learn how to read and they can't.


Butt-hurt should be hyphenated.
 
2012-06-03 11:38:05 AM
Lemme get this straight:
funneling tax dollars into a solar energy firm- bad.
Funneling tax dollars into a windowless Christian school- good.
 
2012-06-03 11:38:59 AM

BarkingUnicorn: WhyteRaven74: wildcardjack: raising the standards for teachers

Cause that's such a bad thing. We should be trying to get the most qualified people to teach. We should be trying to get people with PhD's to teach high school. And there are high school teachers with PhD's in the fields they teach, so such people are around.

But not nearly enough, and there never will be many. If you're a hard-core software engineer, how long could you teach kids which end of a mouse is up before you went insane?


Not only this, but just because someone is brilliant in his/her career does not mean that person can relay that information to students or manage a classroom. I've worked with a lot of people for whom teaching is their second career. My favorite example is a guy who was in management for years and he thought that managing a classroom would be similar to managing a business. He quit on his sixth day of teaching. Another guy became a science teacher after years working as an engineer. By the end of his first month he just stopped showing up to work--didn't formally resign, just stopped showing up because he couldn't handle dealing with teenagers all day. Some people do a fantastic job making the shift from private industry to teaching, but it's definitely not as many as you'd think.
 
2012-06-03 11:39:59 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Curious: i was ask the other day why should parents with kids in private schools have to pay for public schools.

Why should childless people have to pay for public schools?


Same reason they should pay for prisons, streetlights they dont use, roads they will never drive on, mental hospitals that they will never check into and many many other things. If they dont pay for them, they will be farking eaten by one of their fellow citizens who needs those services. Its called society, its not all about just you now. If you dont like it, go join the flotilla offshore and enjoy the Andrew Ryan Dream come true.


Seriously, you, get the fark out of my country.
 
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