Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Mercury News)   Real-life Waterworld, colonizing the oceans to free human progress from the choking grasp of regulation. Wouldn't it be easier to just pay your taxes?   (mercurynews.com) divider line 46
    More: Amusing  
•       •       •

7638 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jun 2012 at 4:42 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-06-02 09:24:04 AM  
4 votes:
So they want all the benefits and privileges of the United States without the obligations and duties.

How bootstrappy of them. If they were serious, they would move completely outside of US territorial waters and take their chances.
2012-06-02 05:05:56 PM  
3 votes:
I suppose this could help develop technologies that would be directly applicable to space colonization, like growing food with no land, waste reclamation, population limitations... or this could lead to the development of giant floating barges sucking down whatever food is flown from coastal cities while oozing a trail of turds and condom wrappers across the briny deeps. Forgive me if I assume that the kind of people who are interested in this will tend to think that the tragedy of the commons is only applicable to the commoners and not themselves.

At least if you pollute your environs in space it's either gonna kill you or be blown away by the solar wind.
2012-06-02 04:38:35 PM  
3 votes:
"We've run out of frontier. All land is claimed. And our revolutions have become superficial," said Patri Friedman, who cofounded The Seasteading Institute four years ago with billionaire venture capitalist Peter Thiel.

Posted this before in reference to another topic. Seems like a good time to post it again. From Chris Cooper's character in "Interstate 60" whom I find myself identifying with more and more:

Bob Cody: Ever hear of Frederick Turner, Mr. Oliver?
Neal Oliver: No, sir.
Bob Cody: Well, he was an historian. About a hundred years ago he came up with a theory about the frontier. He said the frontier was a safety valve for civilization, a place for people to go to keep from goin' mad. So, whenever there were folks who couldn't fit in with the way things were, nuts, and malcontents, and extremists, they'd pack up and head for the frontier. That's how America got started - all the crackpots and troublemakers in Europe packed up and went to a frontier which became the thirteen colonies. When some people couldn't fit in with that, they moved farther west, which is why all the nuts eventually ended up in California. Turner died in 1932, so he wasn't around long enough to see what would happen to the world when we ran out of frontier. Some people say we have the frontier of the mind, and they go off and explore the wonderful world of alcohol and drugs, but that's no frontier. It's just another way for us to fool ourselves. And we've created this phony frontier with computers, which allows people to, you know, think they've escaped. A frontier with access fees?
Neal Oliver: What about space? You know, the final frontier!
Bob Cody: Ah, Star Trek isn't space. That's television - fine farkin' frontier that is. Besides, how many folks can just pack up and go to space?
2012-06-02 09:47:50 AM  
3 votes:

Aarontology: So they want all the benefits and privileges of the United States without the obligations and duties.

How bootstrappy of them. If they were serious, they would move completely outside of US territorial waters and take their chances.


You mock, but this is all just bringing us baby steps closer to a real-life version of BioShock.
2012-06-02 09:40:14 PM  
2 votes:
I used to think this would be a great idea. Then I stopped being 17.

And at any rate, this sounds less like some utopian libertarian micronation, and more like a gimmicky condo.

Put it this way: who shovels the shiat? Both metaphorically and literally, any community of even moderate independence needs people to clean toilets, wash dishes, and take out the garbage.

More generally, who thinks that assembling all of the "malcontents" in an isolated and confined space is going to end well?

I don't think the people who are willing to leave home behind to be janitors on a rusting tub with zero worker protections are going to play nice with everyone. It will be interesting to see whether the underclass or the mercenaries will take over first...

And it speaks to the more general assumption that trips up the wannabe Rugged Individualist. They assume that all of the taxes and regulations and social programs are just bleeding-heart do-gooding run amok. When in reality, there are generally good and pragmatic reasons for the way things are done.

They get so focused on this BS vision they have been sold of how things could be if they weren't having so much stolen from them, that they completely lose the ability for critical thought, and realizing that if the answers were easy, we'd have implemented them long ago.

Iguess in that respect they are no different from any dogmatic cult, but it is really frustrating to watch them ignore the repeated evidence of history as to how bad things really do get for most people in the absence of social order. They want to believe that people act in enlightened self-interest. fark, if that were the case, communism would work!
2012-06-02 08:58:54 PM  
2 votes:

Aarontology: So they want all the benefits and privileges of the United States without the obligations and duties.

How bootstrappy of them. If they were serious, they would move completely outside of US territorial waters and take their chances.


Once you get enough people out there, you'll have to start taxing and regulating, you know. Anarchy sounds nice and peaceful, but it isn't really very much fun after the novelty wears off and things wear out, you know?
2012-06-02 07:29:06 PM  
2 votes:
And let's see, we have a group of cashed up billionaires, who made their fortune creating companies that sell services to a huge volume of middle class people or to other companies that do this. Their fortune came from the consumer demand of a huge body of people who have income they can use to buy their goods and services. The income of these people depends upon their ability to get and secure decent paying jobs. This relies on them having access to expensive education that most of them can't afford themselves, except perhaps through massive levels of debt, so is subsidised by the national economy though the mechanism of taxes paid to the government and public spending on educational services.

Now these guys want to move offshore to minimise their exposure to taxes and to give them the freedom of bringing in pre-trained labor from other countries.

So, in effect, they want to stop paying taxes, which are used to increase the educational standards and economic capacity of the Nation. And they want to bring in educated workers from other nations. And then they'll try to sell their goods and services back into the national economy.

This isn't 'Libertarianism'. This is a farking free ride.

And they know it.

And you guys are buying it.
2012-06-02 06:08:08 PM  
2 votes:
"I'm here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? 'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the poor.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.' 'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers."
2012-06-02 05:46:52 PM  
2 votes:
It's not about the money for these cockgobblers, it's about the principal.
Wealthy people who can run from the evil IRS to other countries have more than enough money to pay their taxes, in some cases enough for a hundred lifetimes worth.
The issue is that they get pissed at the thought of any of their taxes going to help "those people", meaning any people who they perceive as "unlike" them. This seems to be a common streak among anti-taxers, only the rich ones can leave while the poor ones just sit and b*tch.

Any american citizen who leaves the country for the purpose of evading taxation should be given one year to pay up. If they don't, revoke their citizenship after that year is up, and after two years of non-payment deny them entry into the country forever.

You play here, you pay here.
2012-06-02 05:04:02 PM  
2 votes:
Some idiot has been doing this since 1967.

Principality of Sealand

/they even had their own "revolution", government-in-exile, and fake passport scandal
2012-06-02 01:19:46 PM  
2 votes:
I like this idea. It allows for flexible population makeup and governance structures. The fundamental problem with governments, and particularly democratic governments, is their inflexibility. They cannot respond well to changing circumstances without bastardizing the stakeholder system. In a world where the playing field is changing daily, this is a big deal.
2012-06-03 12:39:08 AM  
1 votes:

SDRR: St_Francis_P: Colonizing the ocean is pretty cool, so I'm quite happy to see billionaires wasting their money thinking they'll have their Randian utopia.

Seconded


Good to see people mocking innovation and exploration.
2012-06-02 11:36:55 PM  
1 votes:
A couple of little catches.

!) They plan to moor 12 miles off shore, but the US claims an exclusive economic zone of 200 nm.

2) If they think its gonna be a an unregluated paradise, think again. You simply can't put a bunch of people on a ship wihout regulations...Think of a HOA on steroids.
2012-06-02 10:55:16 PM  
1 votes:
With them all in one place it would be simple for it to have an accident and go down with no survivors.
2012-06-02 07:19:57 PM  
1 votes:

MilesTeg: "I'm here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? 'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the poor.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.' 'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers."


"Eww!" says the normal person, "It's sweat. But if, with this poetical allusion, you're referring to the income you made from living in a society with a good standard of living that we have all contributed, either directly through our taxes or indirectly through the fact that we conduct ourselves in a socially moral manner, then yes, you should pay your share of your income to the community of which you are a part. And if your income is very high, then you have benefited greatly from living in our community, so you should pay a higher share."
2012-06-02 06:29:33 PM  
1 votes:
Would one of these "cities" be like the "massive refugee flotilla centered around Rife's personal yacht, the former USS Enterprise aircraft carrier" as described in "Snow Crash"?
2012-06-02 06:01:15 PM  
1 votes:
If, after more than ten years, you still can't find 20,000 Libertarian assholes to take over farking New Hampshire, you might be biting off more than you can chew with floating sea-cities.

/farking Libertarians.
2012-06-02 05:58:22 PM  
1 votes:

theorellior: LeroyBourne: I'd feel safer in one of those at the bottom of the ocean. Any storm would seriously fark it up, not to mention pirates, or a passing cruise ship that plows into it.

Except for the crushing pressures and complete lack of light or oxygen. With space you only have to worry about one of those.


"Good Lord! That's over 5000 atmospheres of pressure!"

"How many atmospheres can the ship withstand?"

"Well, it was built for space travel, so anywhere between zero and one."
2012-06-02 05:52:11 PM  
1 votes:
jaylectricity: "We've run out of frontier. All land is claimed. And our revolutions have become superficial," said Patri Friedman, who cofounded The Seasteading Institute four years ago with billionaire venture capitalist Peter Thiel.

Posted this before in reference to another topic. Seems like a good time to post it again. From Chris Cooper's character in "Interstate 60" whom I find myself identifying with more and more:

Bob Cody: Ever hear of Frederick Turner, Mr. Oliver?
Neal Oliver: No, sir.
Bob Cody: Well, he was an historian. About a hundred years ago he came up with a theory about the frontier. He said the frontier was a safety valve for civilization, a place for people to go to keep from goin' mad. So, whenever there were folks who couldn't fit in with the way things were, nuts, and malcontents, and extremists, they'd pack up and head for the frontier. That's how America got started - all the crackpots and troublemakers in Europe packed up and went to a frontier which became the thirteen colonies. When some people couldn't fit in with that, they moved farther west, which is why all the nuts eventually ended up in California. Turner died in 1932, so he wasn't around long enough to see what would happen to the world when we ran out of frontier. Some people say we have the frontier of the mind, and they go off and explore the wonderful world of alcohol and drugs, but that's no frontier. It's just another way for us to fool ourselves. And we've created this phony frontier with computers, which allows people to, you know, think they've escaped. A frontier with access fees?
Neal Oliver: What about space? You know, the final frontier!
Bob Cody: Ah, Star Trek isn't space. That's television - fine farkin' frontier that is. Besides, how many folks can just pack up and go to space?


I have to agree with the frontier safetly valve analogy.
2012-06-02 05:46:03 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: falcon176: spend 200 million to avoid paying 30 million in taxes

y'know...the easiest solution to all the world's problems is to simply push the reset button. think about it - if you are the 1%, the best move for you is to wipe out 90% or so of the world population. some sort of engineered plague or whatnot. you want the world to return to something similar to what europe looked like in the wake of the Black Death.

then you and your army of immunized goons and thugs could move in, 'save' the survivors and easily enslave them. you could build just about any type of society you wanted. you'd have plenty of room to expand. debts would be wiped out. no more taxes. A fresh start, if you will.


By definition if you are in the 1% you want things to stay exactly like they are, only more so (i.e. more coming to you). Killing off 90% of the population would mean 90% of the 1% would be downgraded to the 99% (even if they all survived), and they would have 90% less wealth in the long term (and probably more, due to the exponential way wealth tends to accumulate at the top as overall wealth increases).
2012-06-02 05:33:02 PM  
1 votes:

davidphogan: You'd want to make sure you have some surface presence because at 30 feet you could get hit by a lot of ships.


Or depth charges.
2012-06-02 05:29:30 PM  
1 votes:
Or we could, you know, just not have so many damned kids.

/Only had 2
//Refused to consider having more than that
///The wife agreed
2012-06-02 05:28:11 PM  
1 votes:

redsquid: I've done some preliminary checking and you can buy retired floatels, which are floating towns on barges, at surprisingly low prices. These are used to house workers and they have dorms, private cabins, theaters, rec areas, infirmaries, surgeries, cafeterias, etc. Everything you need for a small community. A group of like-minded people could easily buy a barge with a kickstarter -like program. It sounds great but while you're planning your vegan, open love, ocean going meditation retreat some one else is planning a racist dreamboat or a floating sweatshop to side step safety standards. It will be interesting to see it develope.



*googles 'floatel'* ... welp, there goes my next hour.

You know, you make a good point. People imagine it will be entrepreneurial captains of industry who will establish groundbreaking industries offshore, but who is to say it won't be some sadistic drug lord or dictator type who will build a private palace staffed by slaves? We think it will be Tony Stark who'll do this, but who is to say it won't be Saddam Hussein?
2012-06-02 05:26:00 PM  
1 votes:
Hello, this is the US Coast Guard. You say you're in the floating city, the "independent" one? You say you're being boarded by pirates? Fine.
Will that be Visa, Mastercard, or American Express?
2012-06-02 05:23:45 PM  
1 votes:

theorellior: FTA: Blueseed expects its offshore seastead will bypass U.S. immigration and business restrictions to draw entrepreneurs from around the world to work near Silicon Valley.

Okay, who here thinks this will be a luxurious colony of pampered tech geniuses or a bobbing warehouse full of sweatshop coders? Bets?


Put my money on both. Geniuses get staterooms, and coders get a damp cubicle in the hold.
2012-06-02 05:23:41 PM  
1 votes:

St_Francis_P: Colonizing the ocean is pretty cool, so I'm quite happy to see billionaires wasting their money thinking they'll have their Randian utopia.


Seconded
2012-06-02 05:22:59 PM  
1 votes:

albuquerquehalsey: Actually it would be safest about 30 feet down, in a positively buoyant structure, that is moored in place to stay underwater but can be raised to the surface in case of emergency. You get the protection from ships and storms, can be hidden from view, but do not have to be isolated. something like this:


You'd want to make sure you have some surface presence because at 30 feet you could get hit by a lot of ships.
2012-06-02 05:21:48 PM  
1 votes:
spend 200 million to avoid paying 30 million in taxes
2012-06-02 05:19:06 PM  
1 votes:
encrypted-tbn3.google.com
2012-06-02 05:16:32 PM  
1 votes:

LeroyBourne: I'd feel safer in one of those at the bottom of the ocean. Any storm would seriously fark it up, not to mention pirates, or a passing cruise ship that plows into it.


Actually it would be safest about 30 feet down, in a positively buoyant structure, that is moored in place to stay underwater but can be raised to the surface in case of emergency. You get the protection from ships and storms, can be hidden from view, but do not have to be isolated. something like this:

s.ecrater.com
2012-06-02 05:15:44 PM  
1 votes:
I've done some preliminary checking and you can buy retired floatels, which are floating towns on barges, at surprisingly low prices. These are used to house workers and they have dorms, private cabins, theaters, rec areas, infirmaries, surgeries, cafeterias, etc. Everything you need for a small community. A group of like-minded people could easily buy a barge with a kickstarter -like program. It sounds great but while you're planning your vegan, open love, ocean going meditation retreat some one else is planning a racist dreamboat or a floating sweatshop to side step safety standards. It will be interesting to see it develope.
2012-06-02 05:15:40 PM  
1 votes:

LeroyBourne: I'd feel safer in one of those at the bottom of the ocean. Any storm would seriously fark it up, not to mention pirates, or a passing cruise ship that plows into it.


Or the Chinese "accidentally" test out a new anti-ship missile on it.
2012-06-02 05:12:42 PM  
1 votes:

jaylectricity: Andulamb: One could allow compel complete sexual freedom perversion.

How about that? Would that be fine with you?


Well assuming they had a choice in going there, I'll allow it.
2012-06-02 05:11:55 PM  
1 votes:
The self-characterized bootstappy members of society vow to move to the middle of the ocean, where they will be in utter reliance on us bottom feeders to provide them with the raw materials, food sources and other necessities of modern life. Seems about right.

We're so incredibly fortunate God blessed us with these trailblazers of innovation. We will be lost without them.
2012-06-02 05:08:29 PM  
1 votes:
I'd feel safer in one of those at the bottom of the ocean. Any storm would seriously fark it up, not to mention pirates, or a passing cruise ship that plows into it.
2012-06-02 05:05:10 PM  
1 votes:

tuffsnake: "Honey Timmy broke his arm playing with some kids and needs to get it looked at, what time does the medical boat swing round again?"

"Hm, looks like it's 3 days. Now Timmy I'd be happy to take you there in my boat but I'd have to charge you at least 3 ayns and you spent all of yours at the candy shop last weekend. I mean I can't just take you there because I'm your father and you 'need' it. You have to earn things in life."


You can't put a small hospital on a boat? I mean, some delicate surgeries couldn't be done, but I'd think with a large enough vessel you could keep things steady enough to stitch someone up or set a bone.
2012-06-02 04:56:46 PM  
1 votes:
If I'm a multi-billionaire, I guess the question becomes a matter of how much I'd pay in US taxes vs. how much it would cost to hire armed thugs and take over your nice little water village for myself.
2012-06-02 04:56:35 PM  
1 votes:
The article never said tax free, it said visa free. They could still have fees you'd need to pay to them, and they'd likely pay the US government for some services. They just want to make it easy to bypass visa requirements with this concept. It's not necessarily a bad deal for anyone involved.
2012-06-02 04:55:33 PM  
1 votes:
You're still going to have to pay taxes on anything you earn, buy, or sell in the United States, retards. Also, just wait until you see how much more efficient having a unified, central police force is than having to each hire your own personal security staff.
2012-06-02 04:53:37 PM  
1 votes:

jaylectricity: How about that? Would that be fine with you?


Oh god, yes. Mistress.
2012-06-02 04:50:22 PM  
1 votes:
I don't see anything about avoiding taxes. It's about thinking you can do better. Maybe they can. Maybe they can have all of these specialized communities that cater to different kinds of people. One could be very strict and religious. One could allow complete sexual freedom. Fine by me. Why not?
2012-06-02 03:43:09 PM  
1 votes:

PacManDreaming: "Blueseed expects its offshore seastead will bypass U.S. immigration and business restrictions to draw entrepreneurs from around the world allow Mexican pirates to work near Silicon Valley infiltrate and rob everyone on board."


That's why we have government-established and taxpayer-funded entities to protec..... oh, wait. Yeah, best of luck with that.
2012-06-02 01:52:04 PM  
1 votes:
"Blueseed expects its offshore seastead will bypass U.S. immigration and business restrictions to draw entrepreneurs from around the world allow Mexican pirates to work near Silicon Valley infiltrate and rob everyone on board."
2012-06-02 01:16:24 PM  
1 votes:
Ignore the lessons of The Spy Who Loved Me at your peril,dreamers!
2012-06-02 09:53:26 AM  
1 votes:

Aarontology: Shostie: You mock, but this is all just bringing us baby steps closer to a real-life version of BioShock.

Yeah, but if they start weaponizing bees, we'll have to put a stop to it. We can't risk a weapon of mass buzzing to hit our shores!


Seriously, dude. Why do you even think we HAVE Nic Cage in the first place?
2012-06-02 09:48:14 AM  
1 votes:
Colonizing the ocean is pretty cool, so I'm quite happy to see billionaires wasting their money thinking they'll have their Randian utopia.
 
Displayed 46 of 46 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report