namatad: God-is-a-Taco: Guess I'll be the odd man out and comment on the article instead of the headline's version of it.

I don't believe in these super hyper education overload camps. The dude is already sending his kid to what sounds like an expensive private school; there must be some heavy diminishing returns on this stuff.
These kids are already the children of well-off parents, they can be as dumb as a brick (and many probably are) and still have better prospects than 99% of the population.

nope
better educated children are happier and do better in life.
My niece, who won a scholarship at a private boarding school, is now finishing at Princeton.

The boarding school was easily better than 100% of the schools in the county. Smaller classrooms = better education. period.

most kids love camp

His point was rich kids do better in life. You countered with you believe it is educated children, such as your niece who went to a private boarding school and is finishing at Princeton. Who exactly do you think sends their kids to private boarding schools and Princeton? Princeton is $55K a year.

His other point was about diminishing returns. Do you even know what that means? Is your niece a farking moron because sure she went to a private boarding school and Princeton but she didn't attend Smithsonian/NASA summer camp! Or perhaps does it not matter so much if you're spending a fortune on private schools that your kid just played outside for a summer instead of going to Smithsonian camp. You know, diminishing returns.

Dana Milbank's daughter:




balee dat.

Dear Subby,



Welcome to how the world works.



Signed,
The Rest of Us.

meow said the dog: So they really wished to provide the daughter of them with the camp experience and were willing to make the further sacrificing to do this? OM MAGOODNESS I HAVE SUCH THE OUTRAGE OVER THESE PARENTS! WHY DID THEY NOT JUST GIVE UP LIKE GOOD PARENTS WOULD!!!111!!1!1

Sorry I must learn to control the rage of me. It is just that this gives me such anger as do articles from the Consumerist such as "I did not have the receipt to my 13-year-old television set and the store of which was Best Buy would not provide the refund to me." How rude of this company and of the parents of this young person! So angry. It is insane parents such as these that make me want to do the rapings and the stabbings and the yellings and the rapings.

I love you.

Funny how we call this kid a "snowflake" yet praise Puffy's kid for "earning" his UCLA ride, Both parents are doing what they think is best for their offspring. I can't figure whether it's a) racist, b) double-standard, c) Fark snark d) jealousy, e) all the above.

rumpelstiltskin: coco ebert: It's worth it to get your kids out of the house for the summer, amirite?

That's what doors and locks are for. Just put them out in the morning with the dog. They'll magically reappear for lunch and dinner.

And might not be fat.

Step 1 start a camp.
Step 2 tell rich people there child isn't good enough to joint.
Step 3 profit.

MmmmBacon: Another fine example of the 1% buying influence.

Is an Opinion writer for the Washington post a 1%er?


Dana Milbank writes about political theater in the nation's capital. He joined The Post as a political reporter in 2000, after two years as a senior editor of The New Republic and eight years with the Wall Street Journal. He is also the author of three political books: Tears of a Clown (2010), Homo Politicus (2008) and Smashmouth (2001). He lives in Washington with his wife and daughter.

stuffy: tell rich people there child isn't good enough to joint.

Joints at summer camp their? Count me in!

RibbyK: Funny how we call this kid a "snowflake" yet praise Puffy's kid for "earning" his UCLA ride, Both parents are doing what they think is best for their offspring. I can't figure whether it's a) racist, b) double-standard, c) Fark snark d) jealousy, e) all the above.

Puffy's kid was offered a scholarship. Puffy's kid had been playing the sport for years and was good enough to have several schools offer him scholarships. Puffy didn't go to the school, and pay for his kid to have a place on the team *ahead of* other walk-ons and scholarship holders. Now, Puffy should hand the scholarship back, but rich folks didn't get rich by refusing free money. Still, Puffy should gently request his son to decline the scholarship so that another student who doesn't have Puffy money can have an education. Everyone in the thread who says that, is right.

But the Puffy situation is not like the Dana situation at all.

We've had people try this at the summer camp I volunteer at. The director has had parents threaten to get her fired because the camp is full and their precious child didn't get a spot.

.. Which tends to amuse her, because she's not getting paid to do this to begin with...

Hey subby, just because you are poor doesn't make people who are not poor asinine. Guess what, many of the frivolous things you piss your minimum wage on are wasteful to ethiopians..

Welcome to America, Subby.

lilplatinum: Hey subby, just because you are poor doesn't make people who are not poor asinine. Guess what, many of the frivolous things you piss your minimum wage on are wasteful to ethiopians..

Hey upgrading to the next generation I-phone made by slave labor in China is not frivolous it is a necessity. How else to tweet your outrage over the loss of manufacturing jobs because of the greed of the 1%ers and advocate for the oppressed peoples of the world ?

ExperianScaresCthulhu: But the Puffy situation is not like the Dana situation at all.

You make good points, but my main argument is parents doing what's best for their kids. Bet you a nickle, P-Daddy's kid attended one of these football summer campe: Link Did he have to make a separate "donation" to assure admittance? We'll never know.

RibbyK: Funny how we call this kid a "snowflake" yet praise Puffy's kid for "earning" his UCLA ride, Both parents are doing what they think is best for their offspring. I can't figure whether it's a) racist, b) double-standard, c) Fark snark d) jealousy, e) all the above.

I'd prefer a society without the hereditary transmission of privilege; the best Roman Emperors tended to be adopted by their predecessors rather than biologically related.

lennavan: ExperianScaresCthulhu: -- super-cool experiences to whom? at no point in the article did Dana Milbank talk about his daughter's interests, what she has expressed a desire in.. or any regret about the possible existence of other parents whose kid maybe did have an interest in such things but didn't have the money to 'pay to play'.

How exactly do you think kids gain their interests? They aren't born interested in NASA.
And why the fark do you expect this guy to give a fark about someone elses kid?

Kids should never be forced into Todd Marinovich situations. A parents' interests are not automatically a child's interests. If the kid is interested in engineering, that's great. But there are other ways to foster a love of engineering that don't involve pay to play. If the kid could have taken that camp or left that camp, if they didn't get in by the January deadline, then it wasn't necessary to pay to play.

Half the time, this crap isn't about the kids, its about yet another networking opportunity for the parents. But networking is money, and making more money means you can give your kid and kid's kid easier lives than you had yourself, so that's the point of it all?

As for giving a fk if this dude gives a fk about someone else's kid...........he's the dumbass trying to hold himself up as holier than thou in spite of engaging in the exact same tactics he decries for other people, because his daughter is the beneficiary of the tactics this time. This dude has written some Washington insider books; I wonder how many times in those books he talked shiat about his subjects, but engaged in their tactics when it was beneficial for his immediate circumstances/family? Fk him, fk his column, and fk his 'it's ok for me to get mine, you suck if you get yours' attitude.

People can hate all you want; but an extra $300 to get your kid into some summer camp is very likely money well spent. It's not fair - but it's life.

I was recently reading a bunch of comments on a popular software developer's blog where everyone was posting the story of how they came to be software developers. After a handful, a very clear (and depressing) pattern emerged.

People with prestigious jobs, working at places like Microsoft and Google had stories that went like....
'Back in (year when computers weren't readily available) I went to (thing middle class/rich people do - like summer camp) that had computers! The instructor showed us how to do X and Y and I was HOOKED! I begged my parents to get me a personal computer (at a time when it cost as much as car) and they did. I used to dial into BBS (expensive) and my parents got me a subscription (cool magazine about programming). Then I spent a lot of time learning X and Y and Z. By the time I got to college I knew A, B, and C - which lead to awesome internship D and E - and my amazing job AWESOME COMPANY'

The nameless masses had stories like mine....
'I thought computers were kinda cool - but couldn't get my hands on one. When I was 12 I'd ride my bicycle to the public library that had a computer; but instead of having instructors show me how to do cool thing X or Y - I got yelled out for tinkering with it. My high school had a typing class....but ummm no computer classes. When I was a senior in high school I finally got a programmable calculator and started learning TI-Basic and Z80 asm. When I got into college, I pretty much knew nothing about programming - I just thought it was cool'.

Fark_Guy_Rob: The nameless masses had stories like mine....

Fark_Guy_Rob: People with prestigious jobs, working at places like Microsoft and Google had stories that went like....

So... the more coherent voices involved with Occupy Wall Street are right to say that our society requires a radical re-organization then?

I think that's a beat we can all dance to.

Babwa Wawa: namatad: most kids love camp
...

What they won't be doing is going to an overpriced "missile camp" where they build the same rockets I build with them on the weekends at a $500/week premium over and above the cost of a normal day camp. They won't be going to a "Hunger Games" camp where they teach you how to camp.


To Lennavan: that's how you do it. You want to foster a love of something with your kid? Do it with them, if they show an interest. Don't force it, and don't pay to have other people be your wet nurse in that regard.

wait a second

a parent paid someone to get their child more education / fun / adventure? and it resulted in someone who couldn't pay for it not going?

WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO????

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Half the time, this crap isn't about the kids, its about yet another networking opportunity for the parents

Citation needed.
My son's attending several weeks of nearby day camps this summer. We already know 80% of the parents and are thus pre-networked. Besides, nobody talks business while you're waving to each other during drop-off and pick-up.

Crap you say? Yep, they bring home "art crap" all the freakin' time! It's great kindling.

hasty ambush: Hey upgrading to the next generation I-phone made by slave labor in China is not frivolous it is a necessity. How else to tweet your outrage over the loss of manufacturing jobs because of the greed of the 1%ers and advocate for the oppressed peoples of the world ?

Because I am sure you only use things which are absolutely necessary and do not at all partake in a lifestyle built on the backs of the rest of the world, because you aren't a disgusting farking hypocrite..

Oh wait, you are a Westerner, so you are..

Fark_Guy_Rob: People can hate all you want; but an extra $300 to get your kid into some summer camp is very likely money well spent. It's not fair - but it's life.

I was recently reading a bunch of comments on a popular software developer's blog where everyone was posting the story of how they came to be software developers. After a handful, a very clear (and depressing) pattern emerged.

People with prestigious jobs, working at places like Microsoft and Google had stories that went like....
'Back in (year when computers weren't readily available) I went to (thing middle class/rich people do - like summer camp) that had computers! The instructor showed us how to do X and Y and I was HOOKED! I begged my parents to get me a personal computer (at a time when it cost as much as car) and they did. I used to dial into BBS (expensive) and my parents got me a subscription (cool magazine about programming). Then I spent a lot of time learning X and Y and Z. By the time I got to college I knew A, B, and C - which lead to awesome internship D and E - and my amazing job AWESOME COMPANY'

The nameless masses had stories like mine....
'I thought computers were kinda cool - but couldn't get my hands on one. When I was 12 I'd ride my bicycle to the public library that had a computer; but instead of having instructors show me how to do cool thing X or Y - I got yelled out for tinkering with it. My high school had a typing class....but ummm no computer classes. When I was a senior in high school I finally got a programmable calculator and started learning TI-Basic and Z80 asm. When I got into college, I pretty much knew nothing about programming - I just thought it was cool'.

Since Google has a reputation for discriminating against anyone who didn't go to the 'right' school, during the hiring process (exceptions made for chicks working the receptionist area), that sounds about right.

I don't follow that that should be cool, though. Yes, it is the way of the world. The prestigious shiat is prestigious because the majority of people *do not have access and will never have access to it*. They are barred because they didn't pay to play. Your two examples don't have anything to do with merit or talent or gifts. They do have to do with access.

The parents who can easily access shiat can get their kids a bigger head start. That's going to be easier for some parents than others. What happens to the parents who hock their lives for their dreams of access, and hitch those dreams on the back of a kid who doesn't want their dreams?

At the end of the day, though, it was just a head start. The folks who didn't end up at the pay to play prestigious (aka 'reserved for the rich, unless you prove yourself three times better') jobs are still contributing... in spite of starting at bat instead of on third. Their lives still have merit, and they still have talents which they are putting to use.

Lets play a game, its called guess how many times a crying douchebag can whine the term "pay to play" in one thread.

KrispyKritter: -- american children should be sent to europe to be raised by proper nannys, educated, and sent back when they are 25 - 28.

Can I pay said nannies in Drachma?

There's no point in being worked up into a snarling rage, but the article does illustrate the "soft" mechanisms of social stratification that create true, genuine social inequality in this country.

If you're in this thread, with 26 minutes to spare before your next elite gym trip or luncheon with the Secretary of Defense, looking down on the angry OWSers, remember the privileges of your own childhood and their contribution to your "own" success.

lilplatinum: hasty ambush: Hey upgrading to the next generation I-phone made by slave labor in China is not frivolous it is a necessity. How else to tweet your outrage over the loss of manufacturing jobs because of the greed of the 1%ers and advocate for the oppressed peoples of the world ?

Because I am sure you only use things which are absolutely necessary and do not at all partake in a lifestyle built on the backs of the rest of the world, because you aren't a disgusting farking hypocrite..

Oh wait, you are a Westerner, so you are..

Unlike some I do not disavow this. The rest of the world exists to provide me with what I need for my lifestyle. As we know the non-Western world (has history shows) would be nothing but encounter groups, sharing of feelings, sitting around non-polluting campfires singing ethic versions of Kumbayah and peaceful coexistence among races, tribes, families and genders but for the intervention of evil Westerners.

THIS JUST IN SUMMER CAMP COSTS MONEY

Rich people can buy their way out of problems and inconveniences, Ric Romero signing off!

/why rich people are always saying "you can't fix problems by throwing money at them" baffles me. It's EXACTLY how you fix problems.

meow said the dog: God-is-a-Taco: Guess I'll be the odd man out and comment on the article instead of the headline's version of it.

I don't believe in these super hyper education overload camps. The dude is already sending his kid to what sounds like an expensive private school; there must be some heavy diminishing returns on this stuff.
These kids are already the children of well-off parents, they can be as dumb as a brick (and many probably are) and still have better prospects than 99% of the population.

Harrison Bergeron...

Haven't thought of that story for decades!! Yes!

The poor just need to get rich - problem solved. I think I read that advice on a truly inspirational website once, called 'the Onion' or something.

I'm not really sure why the author of TFA is writing like summer camps are a necessity, or even that they're particularly expensive. 800$ for a week for 8 hours a day comes out to about 14$/hr, which would be way too little to pay me to babysit your kids, lady.

Additionally, consider: when I was a wee lad in the age range the article's talking about and my parents got overloaded on my presence during the summer (understandable, they were used to having some peace and quiet while we were in school) my siblings and I got sent to hang with the grandparents for a couple of weeks like normal people. Know what we did there? Hung out at the NASA museum (Houston, our grandfather was a volunteer there) and played with things like plaster casts and woodworking equipment. Basically what the article woman paid 800$ for, but more or less free with the bonus of making the grandparents happy.

I mean, I did end up at science camp and stuff, but it was later, when I was a teenager and I was more of a burden than a joy to older family members and thus harder to foist off. Even then, most of my pre-college technical education came from school clubs (which my friends and I had to _start_ in most cases, including soliciting donations and submitting funding grant requests, kinda complex when you're 11). The camps were more about getting rid of me for a bit and forcing me to socialize than to actually give me any kind of advantage. It's not like a teenager has a CV that changes what high school or whatever you'll go to, after school activites and so on for college apps don't matter unless they occur in 11-12th grade.

RibbyK: Competitive private schools will kick your kid out if you arn't doing long-division by mid-third-grade or not reading/writing at +2 grade levels.

Because of the way the "reading levels" thing works, +2 grade levels is pretty average for any kid that's actually basically literate in English. Any kid that goes a step further and actually reads anything outside of assigned reading is probably ranked much higher than that-- if your kid is a fantasy nerd he's probably read Lord of the Rings by fourth or fifth grade, for instance, which rates him at +8 grade levels. Presenting a requirement for +2 as some sort of draconian standard means either that your standards are kinda low or you don't understand that "at grade level" includes non-english speakers, illiterates, and the mentally challenged in the average.

And division is part of the standard third-grade advancement criteria in my state (just checked on the curriculum website), so you're technically not supposed to be able to advance from third to fourth grade in public school if you can't work out long division either. Dropping your standards _below_ state curriculum standards, which I suspect are similar in your state, would be a bad idea if the school wanted to maintain its charter.

Just sayin', I don't think your school is being as strict as you think it's being, there.

If people stop doing it--then it won't be whats wrong with "this town" right now it is still what's wrong with "these people"

Link in TFA goes here: http://www.holton-arms.edu/uploaded/CS2012/html/cs2012-Programs-Creati ve-Campers.html

$400 per week for a 9-3 summer camp is very farking pricey, more so when you tack on the $300 surcharge.

I read the article.

I seriously don't know whether to laugh or cry about that.

coco ebert: Am I the only one who hated camp as a kid? I kicked and screamed when they tried to send me to sleepaway camp so they backed down and settled for day camp. I did love the writing and arts camp that I went to one summer, though. Nerd.

/sounds like I grew up rich
//I didn't- camp was just much cheaper back then

I went to sleep away camp once, the summer between 5th and 6th grade. Other than the swimming with manatees in the river that ran by the camp part, I wasn't much of a fan. We had two hours of organized sports scheduled for the hottest part of the day, which in Florida in the summer means upwards of 100 degrees and nearly that high humidity, and when we complained about how frikkin' miserable it was the guy in charge (who of course didn't have to run around for 2 hours in the heat) called us all whiner babies. I did not enjoy it, though at least it's not like the science museum camping trip that my older brother went on with my dad, where one of the other parents knew a "short cut" through the woods and promptly managed to get everyone lost in alligator infested palmetto scrub.

/I know, I know, I sound spoiled

Jim_Callahan: Just sayin', I don't think your school is being as strict as you think it's being, there.

Except, of course, for the kicking you out part.

Subby fails.

/On a side note, language immersion camp sounds like a good idea for kids.

twfeline: Subby fails.

/On a side note, language immersion camp sounds like a good idea for kids.

I was going to say that people should just do what my cousin does and ship their kids off to Colombia or something for the summer, but even shipping a kid off to stay with their foreign relatives probably costs way more than a language immersion camp does.