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(The Register)   Alt-tab gets alt-f4'd   (theregister.co.uk) divider line 242
    More: Dumbass, window, Multi, design choices, Metro, semantics, valid argument, tabs  
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14087 clicks; posted to Geek » on 01 Jun 2012 at 10:51 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-01 09:26:26 AM
f that!
 
2012-06-01 09:35:52 AM
I haven't used Windows 8, and after reading the article, I still have no farking idea what the hell he's going on about.
 
2012-06-01 09:43:09 AM
There was no mention of alt+tab in the entire article.

Alt+tab saved me many times in high school. Trying to play counter-strike during class while a teacher talked, teacher would realize none of the guys were paying attention so he/she would get up to check the comps. Alt+tab everything away and not worry. One teacher caught on to alt+tab and busted a couple kids playing games. I tricked him by switching my ctrl and alt keys so it never worked for him.

/csb
 
2012-06-01 09:48:46 AM

Marcus Aurelius: I haven't used Windows 8, and after reading the article, I still have no farking idea what the hell he's going on about.


This.
 
2012-06-01 10:01:10 AM

Marcus Aurelius: I haven't used Windows 8, and after reading the article, I still have no farking idea what the hell he's going on about.


Best I can guess, he's mad that he can't be doing one thing, in one window, while simultaneously doing things in other windows. Like drawing in paint with one hand, typing in word with his feet, and browsing porn with his other hand, all at the same time.
 
2012-06-01 10:03:12 AM
Despite the fact that he goes through an arduous definition of his idea of multitasking, he never actually says what Metro doesn't have that he wants. He sort of hints at it by saying that Metro allows you to have two apps on the screen at once, so that means he wants to be able to have N apps on the screen at once where N > 2? Couldn't he have just said that instead of rambling on for several paragraphs of humblebragging about what a special snowflake he is?
 
2012-06-01 10:17:10 AM
um wtf are you talking about register? i have many apps up al the time on 8.. though i don't use any metro apps so there might be a limitation on how many of those you can have running at once on a single monitor that the designs-demons that made the new ui decided to impose [i like the new ui... on a touch device]
 
2012-06-01 10:20:37 AM
ooh.. now that i read all of the article.. he wants to claim that if you have to alt+tab you're not REALLY multitasking! and the split window metro mode (one app in 33% and other in 66%) is only "dual tasking" and that isn't really multitasking because some dictionaries say multi means more than two! (others say more than one.. he conveniently chooses to use the 2+ definition)..

in other words: Register is talking out of its ass
 
2012-06-01 10:56:13 AM
Most of my internet research just requires the use of F11.
 
2012-06-01 10:59:24 AM
Windows 8 = dogsh*t.
 
2012-06-01 11:02:46 AM

DrippinBalls: Windows 8 = dogsh*t. Windows Vista


FIFY
 
2012-06-01 11:04:04 AM
Windows 8 was always destined to be a turd.

The fact they are actively removing features that people are used to and like, is another clear indication of that.
 
2012-06-01 11:17:39 AM
I won't miss the ability to have 10 windows visible on the screen at the same time.

I can only really use one application at a time. As long as I can have them all open and then switch between them, I'm good.

Should also simplify the UI a lot too.
 
2012-06-01 11:18:44 AM
"multi" generally means "more than two"

[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin, from multus, much, many;

There. Now we're all slightly more educated because of your ignorance. Thanks, "journalist."
 
2012-06-01 11:25:31 AM
So... Windows 8 is Android?
 
2012-06-01 11:31:39 AM
So....this guy is pissed that Windows 8 doesn't magically augment his brain to be able to simultaneously do 3 or more tasks at once?

What a farking idiot.
 
2012-06-01 11:37:22 AM
I predict Windows 8 will be MS' most epic fail since Windows ME.
 
2012-06-01 11:37:29 AM
in place of that task bar Windows 8 has "panes" to switch apps you have to go from pane to pane. It adds extra clicks and is horrible and overly GUI

I installed the first RC of 8 at my last job. It took me + 2 system admins 5 minutes to find the shutdown button. It's not the redesign, it's just piss poor design
 
2012-06-01 11:38:16 AM
Are they actually planning on putting a mobile browser onto actual PCs? Is this a real thing that is happening?
 
2012-06-01 11:39:21 AM

zedster: in place of that task bar Windows 8 has "panes" to switch apps you have to go from pane to pane. It adds extra clicks and is horrible and overly GUI

I installed the first RC of 8 at my last job. It took me + 2 system admins 5 minutes to find the shutdown button. It's not the redesign, it's just piss poor design


Glad to see I wasn't the only one. For a while I was just running the shutdown command in a terminal to turn off my VM of 8.
 
2012-06-01 11:42:30 AM

Sleazy_as_Pie: So... Windows 8 is Android?


Basically, yeah, but only in the Metro environment. The Windows desktop you know and love is still there and will still support everything you want to do with it. The Metro side of the operating system, though, borrows heavily from mobile phone environments. The apps are distributed by way of a marketplace (you can also sideload, but it's not heavily emphasized), each app runs in a sandboxed, isolated process with no direct IPC communication with other processes, and apps are able to easily share information with other apps by way of a system of software contracts (think like how Android lets apps add themselves to the "share with" dialog. Apps also don't "close." When they lose focus, they go into a "suspend" mode behind the scenes, and Windows will eventually terminate the process itself to free up resources, just like with Android, Windows Phone, etc. The programmer guidelines make it clear that apps are to be designed to persist data automatically in this case.

Basically, the plan here is to make Windows a viable tablet OS, but at the same time, preserve existing legacy functionality. Again, everything you could do in Windows 7 is still supported in the Desktop mode, which itself is actually presented as an app in Metro. The new interface is different, for sure, but once you get used to it, it's wicked fast and really intuitive.

Like my dad used to say, "Try it, you might like it." :)

/Microsoft employee, but not on the Windows product team
//Premier Field Engineer - I train people in this stuff. Getting trained on Windows 8 dev next month
///All this said, I do NOT speak for Microsoft, the above represents my own opinions and do not represent Microsoft in any way
 
2012-06-01 11:42:52 AM
Windows, why are you called windows if things don't run in windows?

The other thing is that some programs and apps look stupid in full screen and don't deserve all my screen space. I regulary have 3 or more programs running that I want to see all the time. I want to see Word, Outlook and a PDF.

If you have a 22 inch monitor using the entire screen for a single app is stupid, even 1/3 view doesn't fix the problem.

Even the iPad has a tweak for running multiple apps Link
 
2012-06-01 11:45:21 AM
It's not as bad as I initially thought it would be. Once I got used to it and started to customize the start screen I didn't really miss the start button.
 
2012-06-01 11:47:28 AM
Windows 8 is Vista Sidebar the OS
 
2012-06-01 11:53:00 AM
This is deja vu all over again. I'm old and remember when the 1-2-3 app was king. It sold PCs. it sold add-on memory, it changed the office forever. Then the brilliant folks at Lotus made it better with Symphony.

Good bye 1-2-3, hello Excel.
/Lawn
 
2012-06-01 11:57:15 AM
UI changes that hinder productivity to make them more simple and touch-friendly are exactly the reason I switched from Ubuntu to Linux Mint when they brought out Unity. The only reason I still use Windows at all is:
1. Silverlight DRM isn't supported under Linux (Netflix)
2. Gaming under Linux is a compatibility chore - when it works at all.

1 app at a time? On Linux I use minimum 4 desktops, each with 2-3 applications running constantly. Windows is typically 2-3 since I don't use it for work - but I rather like being able to take advantage of screen space by using 'windows' in Windows. Watch a YouTube video while monitoring torrent download progress, keeping an eye on email, and chatting on Facebook? Not on Windows 8 Metro - pick 2.
 
2012-06-01 11:58:40 AM
I've been using Windows 8 for like a month now, and I don't use the Metro, it's not hack to be removed, I just have no use for it (much like the Stat Menu in Win7), all my programs are on the desktop, Alt+Tab works just fine and I can run lots of programs at once and "multitask" just fine. If you run IE or and links from the desktop IE runs in a normal Window and not in Metro. To be honest I have no clue what this guys problem is, he sounds like someone who hated XP when it first came out and swore he's never leave 98r2.

Actually I take that back, I do use the Metro to access the cmd prompt, but it's no big deal because instead of hitting the "windows" key, going to the run and typing "cmd" I hit the windows key and double click on the cmd prompt which takes me back to the Desktop, so it's actually easier.
 
2012-06-01 11:58:55 AM
That sure was a lot of words.
 
2012-06-01 12:03:09 PM

Eddy Gurge: Marcus Aurelius: I haven't used Windows 8, and after reading the article, I still have no farking idea what the hell he's going on about.

Best I can guess, he's mad that he can't be doing one thing, in one window, while simultaneously doing things in other windows. Like drawing in paint with one hand, typing in word with his feet, and browsing porn with his other hand, all at the same time.


I dunno about you, but when I browse porn with one hand I'm unable to draw in paint with the other.

Is that considered multitasking?
 
2012-06-01 12:03:29 PM
"Hey, guys, this UI metaphor explicitly designed for purposes that fall completely outside of my computing needs doesn't meet my computing needs! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!"

Metro is one mode for Win8. This is like complaining about iOS when you're using OSX.
 
2012-06-01 12:04:35 PM

Bloody Templar: Sleazy_as_Pie: So... Windows 8 is Android?

Basically, yeah, but only in the Metro environment. The Windows desktop you know and love is still there and will still support everything you want to do with it. The Metro side of the operating system, though, borrows heavily from mobile phone environments. The apps are distributed by way of a marketplace (you can also sideload, but it's not heavily emphasized), each app runs in a sandboxed, isolated process with no direct IPC communication with other processes, and apps are able to easily share information with other apps by way of a system of software contracts (think like how Android lets apps add themselves to the "share with" dialog. Apps also don't "close." When they lose focus, they go into a "suspend" mode behind the scenes, and Windows will eventually terminate the process itself to free up resources, just like with Android, Windows Phone, etc. The programmer guidelines make it clear that apps are to be designed to persist data automatically in this case.

Basically, the plan here is to make Windows a viable tablet OS, but at the same time, preserve existing legacy functionality. Again, everything you could do in Windows 7 is still supported in the Desktop mode, which itself is actually presented as an app in Metro. The new interface is different, for sure, but once you get used to it, it's wicked fast and really intuitive.

Like my dad used to say, "Try it, you might like it." :)

/Microsoft employee, but not on the Windows product team
//Premier Field Engineer - I train people in this stuff. Getting trained on Windows 8 dev next month
///All this said, I do NOT speak for Microsoft, the above represents my own opinions and do not represent Microsoft in any way


^^^^ what he said

/Microsoft employee, Windows Server group
//same disclaimer about only representing myself
///Everything you can do in 7 you can do in 8
////SLASHIES
 
2012-06-01 12:06:10 PM
This app is too important for me to allow you to minimize it, Dave.
fc08.deviantart.net
 
2012-06-01 12:10:24 PM

SomeAmerican: I won't miss the ability to have 10 windows visible on the screen at the same time.

I can only really use one application at a time. As long as I can have them all open and then switch between them, I'm good.

Should also simplify the UI a lot too.


I will miss it. I often need to have at least three windows open, with their contents visible for reference. Work in one window while glancing back to the others (or switching back and forth to start processes that take their own time).

No compelling reason to leave Win7. 7 has been the first Windows OS to really get it "right" (and the only one I've ever paid retail for). Metro is a clusterfark for busy desktops. The only reason it exists is that MS is trying to unify their UI across all platforms, so they hobble desktop machines with their mobile interface. (yes, I know you can disable Metro, which essentially turns the machine back into Win7, which I already have...)
 
2012-06-01 12:11:19 PM
Windows 8 will make Microsoft Bob look well-reasoned and intuitive in comparison to its UI and Vista look like a runaway blockbuster in comparison to its sales figures.
 
2012-06-01 12:11:22 PM

Faddy: If you have a 22 inch monitor using the entire screen for a single app is stupid, even 1/3 view doesn't fix the problem.


...Then don't maximize the window to take up all/33% of the screen...
 
2012-06-01 12:13:39 PM

Kuroshin: (yes, I know you can disable Metro, which essentially turns the machine back into Win7, which I already have...)


It turns the interface back into Windows 7, which you already have. What you don't already have is the more up-to-date back end...

/Are people really this silly?
//It looks the same so it's the same!
 
2012-06-01 12:19:06 PM

cgalant: UI changes that hinder productivity to make them more simple and touch-friendly are exactly the reason I switched from Ubuntu to Linux Mint when they brought out Unity. The only reason I still use Windows at all is:
1. Silverlight DRM isn't supported under Linux (Netflix)
2. Gaming under Linux is a compatibility chore - when it works at all.

1 app at a time? On Linux I use minimum 4 desktops, each with 2-3 applications running constantly. Windows is typically 2-3 since I don't use it for work - but I rather like being able to take advantage of screen space by using 'windows' in Windows. Watch a YouTube video while monitoring torrent download progress, keeping an eye on email, and chatting on Facebook? Not on Windows 8 Metro - pick 2.


This. I'm thinking of getting a second monitor both at home and in the office just so that I can have *even more* windows open at a time. In the office I'd *love* to be able to simultaneously spread out two or three terminals, a half-dozen text editor windows, and a browser all at once (as-is they're spread out over two or three desktop spaces instead of multiple monitors). At home I am frequently watching a stream, browsing, and using skype at the same time, and often have various game related things running as well. At the moment I can only do those at the same time as non-fullscreen game stuff like minecraft or character planners, but add a second monitor and I'll be doing all of those and fullscreen games as well.

Two whole programs on screen at once? Wow, so impressive. Let me know once you've built an OS that's actually usable on *real* computers instead of just toys.
 
2012-06-01 12:21:40 PM
As someone who has two monitors to hold all my shiat, this interface sounds like misery.

And yes, I like to watch two different pr0ns at the same time.
 
2012-06-01 12:22:21 PM

Kuroshin: I will miss it. I often need to have at least three windows open, with their contents visible for reference. Work in one window while glancing back to the others (or switching back and forth to start processes that take their own time).


let me type this really big since people keep missing it

THERE IS NO LIMITATION ON THE NUMBER OF APPLICATION WINDOWS YOU CAN HAVE OPEN
 
2012-06-01 12:25:27 PM

Kuroshin: which essentially turns the machine back into Win7


not really true, you might want to actually look at the new features list - like hyper-v in the client [pro and ent editions], new ntfs health model which makes fixing your disk faster [and often can happen online], storage spaces [replacing dynamic disk and drive extender], etc

MuonNeutrino: Two whole programs on screen at once? Wow, so impressive. Let me know once you've built an OS that's actually usable on *real* computers instead of just toys.


TFA is talking out his ass. that is the metro split screen mode, and only the metro split screen mode. you can have more metro apps open, you just have to task switch (which he is cheating and calling "not multitasking")

and multitasking existing applications (non-metro apps) is the same as it always has been.
 
2012-06-01 12:25:37 PM

MuonNeutrino: This. I'm thinking of getting a second monitor both at home and in the office just so that I can have *even more* windows open at a time.


I work in a data center. I have 3 large monitors and they are all filled with monitoring applications. It's pretty sweet.
 
2012-06-01 12:30:33 PM
meh
 
2012-06-01 12:30:42 PM

Faddy: Windows, why are you called windows if things don't run in windows?

The other thing is that some programs and apps look stupid in full screen and don't deserve all my screen space. I regulary have 3 or more programs running that I want to see all the time. I want to see Word, Outlook and a PDF.

If you have a 22 inch monitor using the entire screen for a single app is stupid, even 1/3 view doesn't fix the problem.

Even the iPad has a tweak for running multiple apps Link


If you have a 22" monitor, you will probably spend 99% of you time looking at this:



You'll just have to get used some new interface tweaks and some missing Start Menu shortcuts, but for day to day stuff it won't be much different than using Win 7 on a desktop or laptop, aside from the Start Screen replacing the Start Menu. For most day to day stuff, the Start Menu is the only place you'll really see the Metro interface.
 
2012-06-01 12:31:42 PM
I just got used to 7, after that abortion called Vista, and I really don't want to go thru the trauma of another Microsoft "upgrade" so I did the most sensible thing I have ever done since I bougth my first home computer in 1981.....

I bought a Mac and have not looked back.
 
2012-06-01 12:31:44 PM
techreport.com

Dammit my image link got eaten.
 
2012-06-01 12:32:58 PM
MoronLessOff: I have 3 large monitors and they are all filled with monitoring applications.

sites.google.com
 
2012-06-01 12:34:41 PM

Victoly: MoronLessOff: I have 3 large monitors and they are all filled with monitoring applications.

[sites.google.com image 320x207]


Awesome.
 
2012-06-01 12:36:01 PM

redTiburon: I just got used to 7, after that abortion called Vista, and I really don't want to go thru the trauma of another Microsoft "upgrade" so I did the most sensible thing I have ever done since I bougth my first home computer in 1981.....

I bought a Mac and have not looked back.


So to save your self the "trauma" of changing your workflow to take into account some fairly easy to grok UI tweaks, you moved to a radically different OS that requires requires you to relearn just about everything, including keyboard shortcuts? That's a BRILLIANT plan.

/Sent from my iMac
 
2012-06-01 12:39:57 PM
I've got seven applications running on four monitors, so I'm getting confused.
 
2012-06-01 12:43:53 PM

Thunderboy: I've got seven applications running on four monitors, so I'm getting confused.


that is the point.. the article was FUD
 
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