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(The Stranger)   Cops say hero in Seattle cafe shooting saved lives by flinging stools at gunman, was not a monkey   (slog.thestranger.com) divider line 36
    More: Hero, semiautomatic pistols, slog, Seattle, Harborview Medical Center  
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4796 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jun 2012 at 12:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-06-01 12:06:51 AM
DIAF obtusemitter.
 
2012-06-01 01:28:11 AM
I've seen a lot of people 86'd. I'm glad this hasn't happened in front of me yet.
 
2012-06-01 01:34:56 AM
What a selfish jackass. Did the bar stool pitcher survive?
 
2012-06-01 01:36:12 AM

davidphogan: I've seen a lot of people 86'd. I'm glad this hasn't happened in front of me yet.


So. Seen a lot of people murdered? What kind of bidness are you into?
 
2012-06-01 01:57:51 AM
"I just threw the fr*gg*ng stool at him, legs first," he said. "My brother died in the World Trade Center. I promised myself [if something like this ever happened] I would never hide under a table."

It is believed his actions enabled others to flee the cafe, where the killer's rampage began Wednesday.


Salute.
 
2012-06-01 02:05:44 AM
If he'd had a gun he could have stopped the shooter cold.
 
2012-06-01 02:41:04 AM

StrangeQ: If he'd had a gun he could have stopped the shooter cold.


Only if he could draw and shoot accurately faster than the crazy dude. Unless you've got a lot of training for hostage situations (aka LEO training), there is literally no way to know how you're going to react when drawing down. Hell, there's no way to know how you'll react when someone gets injured in front of you, much less react to the violent perpetrator. Some people jump right in, some freeze up, and some head for the hills without even thinking about it.
 
2012-06-01 02:47:03 AM

Gumaraid: davidphogan: I've seen a lot of people 86'd. I'm glad this hasn't happened in front of me yet.

So. Seen a lot of people murdered? What kind of bidness are you into?


86'd is banned. 187 is dead.
 
2012-06-01 02:47:25 AM
Damn straight he was no monkey

Guys Pic
 
2012-06-01 03:00:57 AM
StrangeQ: If he'd had a gun he could have stopped the shooter cold.

Crazy guy was running double-45's, Hong Kong style

AbbeySomeone DIAF obtusemitter.

You didn't go there often, did you? Last Twitterpost: Link
 
2012-06-01 03:33:24 AM
A old friend of mine is a regular at that cafe but she wasn't there that day. She was close friends of the two guys from the band that were killed and has been pretty broken up since the shooting.

There will be a charity event to raise money for the families of the killed. It has been tentatively scheduled for June 19th and they are looking for bands to volunteer their time for the event.

And mark me down as someone who wished at least one person there had a CCW and carrying.
 
2012-06-01 04:06:54 AM
This happened a couple of blocks from a dear friend of mine, and a couple of the victims were acquaintances. We're at, counting the shooter's suicide, 22 gun homicides for Seattle so far this year, just within city limits. (We're getting a good chunk more in the suburbs and rural areas.) In comparison, this time last year we had 3. I'm moving somehwere safer, like Detroit
 
2012-06-01 05:59:07 AM
Dear world,

If you want to an hero, just do it.

You don't need to first go around shooting poor saps in the farking head just for trying to earn minimum wage.
 
2012-06-01 07:50:40 AM

ladyfortuna: StrangeQ: If he'd had a gun he could have stopped the shooter cold.

Only if he could draw and shoot accurately faster than the crazy dude. Unless you've got a lot of training for hostage situations (aka LEO training), there is literally no way to know how you're going to react when drawing down. Hell, there's no way to know how you'll react when someone gets injured in front of you, much less react to the violent perpetrator. Some people jump right in, some freeze up, and some head for the hills without even thinking about it.


Bullshiat. LEO training is shooting 20 rounds a year at a stationary target on a range and maybe hitting it. Your reactions are a result of your mindset, and if a dude is throwing chairs at someone shooting at him instead of running away, you can be damn sure he could shoot bullets, too.
 
2012-06-01 08:06:28 AM
So what we have here is another vigilante.

What if one of those bar stools hurt someone? What if he hit a child?

What does this teach children? The violence is the answer to every problem?

Why couldnt he just reason out his differences with the other gentleman? Give the man a cup of coffee and sit down and discuss what the issues are. If we would just sit down and talk more, we would have less incidents like this. In addition, all guns should be outlawed. That would stop the real cause of these situations.

This man should not be praised, he should be in jail. He is nothing more than a violet thug. Probably a republican and a tea party member.
 
2012-06-01 08:23:20 AM
Nice rhetoric in that story, pondering whether or not he had a concealed weapons permit.

They aren't concealed while firing. He could have open carried two .45s pretty easily.
 
2012-06-01 08:45:30 AM

hosalabad: Nice rhetoric in that story, pondering whether or not he had a concealed weapons permit.



If you liked that gem, then you're gonna love this one!

"His family has said he was mentally ill."

That could be the problem.
 
2012-06-01 09:59:25 AM
Thanks for the early LOL, submitter.
 
2012-06-01 10:28:44 AM
If he had a gun, he could have saved even more lives.

/Glad VA allows concealed carry in places that serve alchohol now
 
2012-06-01 10:32:16 AM

ladyfortuna: StrangeQ: If he'd had a gun he could have stopped the shooter cold.

Only if he could draw and shoot accurately faster than the crazy dude. Unless you've got a lot of training for hostage situations (aka LEO training), there is literally no way to know how you're going to react when drawing down. Hell, there's no way to know how you'll react when someone gets injured in front of you, much less react to the violent perpetrator. Some people jump right in, some freeze up, and some head for the hills without even thinking about it.


He stayed calm and cool enough to throw some bar stools at the guy to help others escape. If he had a firearm and one hour of training, he would have stopped the guy before he could kill many more. I am not sure what part of that you are not getting?
 
2012-06-01 10:43:22 AM
Sympathizes

images.wikia.com
 
2012-06-01 11:16:01 AM
Obviously the work of this guy: Link
 
2012-06-01 12:16:39 PM

ladyfortuna: StrangeQ: If he'd had a gun he could have stopped the shooter cold.

Only if he could draw and shoot accurately faster than the crazy dude. Unless you've got a lot of training for hostage situations (aka LEO training), there is literally no way to know how you're going to react when drawing down. Hell, there's no way to know how you'll react when someone gets injured in front of you, much less react to the violent perpetrator. Some people jump right in, some freeze up, and some head for the hills without even thinking about it.



I only know how to shoot skeet shot with a shotgun. In fact, I don't even own ammunition for the thing, as I buy it at the range. But I have been held at gun point and knife point a couple times.

I wish I could easily describe all the emotions I felt the first time I had a gun to my head. Fear, surprise, anger, terror .... but all at once. You don't have time to over-think a situation you only have time to fight, flee or comply. And the scary thing about choosing any of those options is that you don't know if it's the last decision you'll ever make.

So let me say this. When this hero had a moment to assess the situation and then decide to attack, he was either very calm or he was filled with rage. This hero had no weapon but used his surroundings to accurately throw blunt objects and slow the gunmen down. I have no doubt in my mind, that even with minimal gun training, the hero would have taken the attacker down if he was armed.
 
2012-06-01 12:43:14 PM

OgreMagi: And mark me down as someone who wished at least one person there had a CCW and carrying.


At least one person had a CCW and a farking gun. That's actually the source of the problem. All of this concern you gun trolls are showing over too few guns in our society makes me clench my butthole.

The truth is that none of you knows if anyone else at the scene had a farking CCW or a firearm, let alone if or how it would have helped. All you know is that no one else pulled out a gun. Yet you take it as an article of faith that, were there more guns in the hands of more people, there would be fewer crazies going crazy and killing people. No proof is necessary for you to carry this belief. You just need a good pants-wetting and this imaginary, utopian, crime-free Polite Society of secret, gun-toting heros-in-waiting you've been guaranteed brings such comfort in the face of your utter helplessness that you just know, in your gut, that it must be true.
 
2012-06-01 12:46:57 PM
Before this whole thread degrades into another "crazy gun people!" / "constitutional right!" morass, let me express my agreement with the commenters above who noted that the headline is funny.
 
2012-06-01 12:57:01 PM

ToeKnee666: OgreMagi: And mark me down as someone who wished at least one person there had a CCW and carrying.

At least one person had a CCW and a farking gun. That's actually the source of the problem. All of this concern you gun trolls are showing over too few guns in our society makes me clench my butthole.

The truth is that none of you knows if anyone else at the scene had a farking CCW or a firearm, let alone if or how it would have helped. All you know is that no one else pulled out a gun. Yet you take it as an article of faith that, were there more guns in the hands of more people, there would be fewer crazies going crazy and killing people. No proof is necessary for you to carry this belief. You just need a good pants-wetting and this imaginary, utopian, crime-free Polite Society of secret, gun-toting heros-in-waiting you've been guaranteed brings such comfort in the face of your utter helplessness that you just know, in your gut, that it must be true.


You should look up the crime statistics of Kennesaw, Georgia then revisit your anti-gun stance. Every household in Kennesaw is required, by law, to have a firearm. Not that it's enforced, but check out their crime stats compared to the rest of the country. LESS THAN HALF of US averages. 25 years without a single murder. Almost twice the percentage of minorities as compared to the rest of the US (face it, statistics show that more minorities usually means more crime).

Those are facts. Not an imaginary, utopian, crime-free Polite Society.

In other words, you don't know what you're talking about. Good day, sir.
 
2012-06-01 01:23:02 PM
He might have saved more lives if he did fling his stool.

/headline of the year candidate, subby -- good job
 
2012-06-01 01:28:26 PM
KidneyStone:

You should look up the crime statistics of Kennesaw, Georgia then revisit your anti-gun stance. Every household in Kennesaw is required, by law, to have a firearm. Not that it's enforced, but check out their crime stats compared to the rest of the country. LESS THAN HALF of US averages. 25 years without a single murder. Almost twice the percentage of minorities as compared to the rest of the US (face it, statistics show that more minorities usually means more crime).

Those are facts. Not an imaginary, utopian, crime-free Polite Society.

In other words, you don't know what you're talking about. Good day, sir.

I hate to burst the little bubble that lets you sleep at night in this big, scary, minority-filled world, but here ya go. A few facts:

No link between gun ownership and decreased crime rates from a (link to) PDF at Yale Law.

Another fact, since you're so fond of claiming to have them on your side: I've owned guns since I was 12. Disagreeing with your idea that more guns equals more safe, does not make one anti-gun. On the other hand, swallowing this "Kennesaw Argument" (you can look it up - it's a thing) without any further research is evidence for the argument that one may be a gun nut.
 
2012-06-01 03:29:24 PM

ToeKnee666: At least one person had a CCW and a farking gun. That's actually the source of the problem. All of this concern you gun trolls are showing over too few guns in our society makes me clench my butthole.


OK Sofa King. The article stated rather clearly: "Still unknown: Where the suspect lived, if he had a concealed weapons permit, or why he may have chosen Cafe Racer as his target". Odds are he did NOT have a CCW permit, or douche bags would already be using that to make some kind of point that makes sense only to themselves...like you just did.

You may not be aware of this, but people who intend to commit murder using firearms aren't too worried about the extra charge for carrying concealed without a permit. Indeed, a person will rob a gas station without a concealed carry permit. Crazy, isn't it? Occasionally a felon uses a firearm too....what a crazy world.
 
2012-06-01 03:45:49 PM

Big_Fat_Liar:
OK Sofa King. The article stated rather clearly: "Still unknown: Where the suspect lived, if he had a concealed weapons permit, or why he may have chosen Cafe Racer as his target". Odds are he did NOT have a CCW permit, or douche bags would already be using that to make some kind of point that makes sense only to themselves...like you just did.

You may not be aware of this, but people who intend to commit murder using firearms aren't too worried about the extra charge for carrying concealed without a permit. Indeed, a person will rob a gas station without a concealed carry permit. Crazy, isn't it? Occasionally a felon uses a firearm too....what a crazy world.


You must be new at Internet, so let me Google that for you:

First result:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/seattle-mass-shooting-l a t _b_1563392.html

From:
A quick Google search...

Are all you tough guys really this bad at doing your own research?
 
2012-06-01 04:16:14 PM

ToeKnee666: OgreMagi: And mark me down as someone who wished at least one person there had a CCW and carrying.

At least one person had a CCW and a farking gun. That's actually the source of the problem. All of this concern you gun trolls are showing over too few guns in our society makes me clench my butthole.

The truth is that none of you knows if anyone else at the scene had a farking CCW or a firearm, let alone if or how it would have helped. All you know is that no one else pulled out a gun. Yet you take it as an article of faith that, were there more guns in the hands of more people, there would be fewer crazies going crazy and killing people. No proof is necessary for you to carry this belief. You just need a good pants-wetting and this imaginary, utopian, crime-free Polite Society of secret, gun-toting heros-in-waiting you've been guaranteed brings such comfort in the face of your utter helplessness that you just know, in your gut, that it must be true.


It was in Seattle, so we can be fairly certain that NO ONE had a CCW. As for your rant, since it has already been statistically proven that an increase in CCW holders reduce crime, I can assume you are spouting off in pure ignorance.
 
2012-06-01 04:34:02 PM

OgreMagi:
It was in Seattle, so we can be fairly certain that NO ONE had a CCW. As for your rant, since it has already been statistically proven that an increase in CCW holders reduce crime, I can assume you are spouting off in pure ignorance.


Statistically proven? And you know a lot about the numbers of permits issued in Seattle?

I might be spouting off, and I might be ignorant, but I've at least made an effort to educate my opinions and I've linked you to some sources. I haven't seen you provide anything but conjecture to back up your "statistics" and yet you call *me* a liar. I sure hope nobody makes the mistake of 86ing you from their neighborhood coffee joint. You're likely a nut job and I'm guessing you have an unhealthy fixation with firearms.
 
2012-06-01 05:35:07 PM

cenobyte40k: ladyfortuna: StrangeQ: If he'd had a gun he could have stopped the shooter cold.

If he had a firearm and one hour of training, he would have stopped the guy before he could kill many more. I am not sure what part of that you are not getting?


What part of danger to other bystanders are you not getting? Even if he had one, who's to say with all the adrenaline he could shoot straight?

I did a grand total of one afternoon of training at Fort Drum on how to enter and clear a building as a 4 person team, and let me tell you the main event where we went up against role players was pulse-pounding. Even with 3-4 hours of time training up to almost the exact situation, the two of us on our side missed a door and someone was on the other side of it.

No one can predict how they're going to react or perform when something like this story happens. That the guy had the presence of mind to use what was at hand is great, I'm just saying even with a firearm, there's no way to guarantee he'd have done any good.
 
2012-06-01 09:34:09 PM

OgreMagi: It was in Seattle, so we can be fairly certain that NO ONE had a CCW. As for your rant, since it has already been statistically proven that an increase in CCW holders reduce crime, I can assume you are spouting off in pure ignorance.


There are gun-carriers in Seattle, they are just discreet about it.
 
2012-06-01 10:51:46 PM

ladyfortuna: StrangeQ: If he'd had a gun he could have stopped the shooter cold.

Only if he could draw and shoot accurately faster than the crazy dude. Unless you've got a lot of training for hostage situations (aka LEO training), there is literally no way to know how you're going to react when drawing down. Hell, there's no way to know how you'll react when someone gets injured in front of you, much less react to the violent perpetrator. Some people jump right in, some freeze up, and some head for the hills without even thinking about it.


You need Low Earth Orbit training to shoot a guy?

Woah. I should've stayed in the army longer.
 
2012-06-02 03:45:06 AM

LavenderWolf: ladyfortuna: StrangeQ:

Woah. I should've stayed in the army longer.


I guess so. Unless you're point blank, there's no guarantee you'll hit the target.
 
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