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(Salon)   Men and boys are failing at life and falling behind when it comes to relationships because they can't ask a woman out on a date   (salon.com) divider line 188
    More: Fail, doctorate degrees, Women's Studies, Psychology Today, academic major, social change, Novartis, TED Talks, wage gap  
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7894 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 May 2012 at 1:04 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-31 01:28:40 PM

shivashakti: The Jami Turman Fan Club: In a society where men get accused of sexual assault for looking at a woman, let alone asking them out, why is this surprising?

I don't think men get accused of sexual assault for looking at a woman. That's an exaggeration.


Don't be so sure of that: Link
 
2012-05-31 01:29:01 PM

shivashakti: Well, that's where online dating comes in handy...


Messaged 25 women over 6-8 months. Never got a reply. Current girlfriend of four months messaged me first. FOR GREAT JUSTICE.

shivashakti: I feel weird about asking strange women out in public places as well. From hanging around feminists, I'm told that women seem to find it intrusive and creepy when unattractive strange men hit on them or ask them out. And I'm unattractive and strange.

Celibacy seems like a much simpler option.


You always seem like such a great person, so I hope that single or not you find happiness in life.
 
2012-05-31 01:30:53 PM

Yanks_RSJ: Video games and porn are much less expensive and never say no.



And they don't nag.
 
2012-05-31 01:31:37 PM

WhippingBoy: Don't be so sure of that: Link


I'm sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you meant in a legal sense. Like legally charged with sexual assault.

I think it's creepy and wrong to ask a strange woman in an elevator if she wants to go back to your hotel room for sex. But is it legally sexual assault? No.
 
2012-05-31 01:32:29 PM

Quasar: Messaged 25 women over 6-8 months. Never got a reply. Current girlfriend of four months messaged me first. FOR GREAT JUSTICE.


Awesome!

Quasar: You always seem like such a great person, so I hope that single or not you find happiness in life.


Thanks! I'm working on it, man...and I'm fairly happy.
 
2012-05-31 01:33:04 PM

Coelacanth Filet: I've done a lot of casual research on this subject, and it pretty much boils down to this: these articles are mostly written by ambitious unmarried women, from the ages of 28 to 40, who live in New York City and work as journalists. Upon moving to NYC, they gorge on a buffet of casual sex with handsome, cultured, ambitious men. But when the hollow pulsations of their uterine clocks are too loud to ignore, they find that the men they previously hooked up with are content to do that ad infinitum, and have no interest in buying the proverbial cow. Infuriated and frightened, the women use their platform as journalists to project their situation onto us, and the convenient excuse is always porn and video games.


That about covers that. It's OUR fault that women threw away their prime years under the misguided notion that they could "have it all" and eventually find a mate of their choosing. We know how to play the game too, ladies, and there's another busload of younger girls arriving in NYC as we speak just waiting to do the same things you did.
 
2012-05-31 01:33:40 PM

Quasar: Messaged 25 women over 6-8 months. Never got a reply. Current girlfriend of four months messaged me first. FOR GREAT JUSTICE.


Of all the women I've messaged first, I've had a few replies, but not one have I gone out with. They're pretty, and boring(and perhaps bored by me).

Every women I've went on a date with has messaged me first.
 
2012-05-31 01:33:51 PM

TheOther: Fuggin Bizzy: TheOther: I admit it: being married holds me back on asking women out on dates.

I'm so ashamed!

8 seconds from a simulpost with simulcontent. We should hang out.

Dude...are you asking me out?


Make him buy you a nice dinner first.

I think the FA and book are pure BS. What is really happening is that guys are fed up with the way young women today behave. A lot of the young, single guys in my office are just interested in an occasional hook-up and don't really want to "date" at all.
 
2012-05-31 01:34:33 PM

Yanks_RSJ: Video games and porn are much less expensive and never say no.


Yep, in some cases women are pricing themselves out of the market.
 
2012-05-31 01:36:55 PM
Yeah, all true, but 20-somethings rock at Team Fortress, right?

/Actually, no. 12 year-olds school them.
 
2012-05-31 01:37:08 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: TheOther: I admit it: being married holds me back on asking women out on dates.

I'm so ashamed!

8 seconds from a simulpost with simulcontent. We should hang out.


See how easy that is, guys?
 
2012-05-31 01:37:14 PM
It is tough.

A lot of us decent guys hear women we know complaining about all the creeps hitting on them, and we don't want to be that guy.

We also want relationships to be based on something more than physical attraction, so we try to get to know women we're interested in before asking them out. We all know how that ends up.

Basically we have to go around risking offending women, and suck up all the rejection, or stay single forever.
 
2012-05-31 01:37:25 PM

rooftop235: [bp2.blogger.com image 400x300]

If you won't ask these out, I will.
/More poon for me! WOOHOO!


Beware. A group of girls like that can be dangerous, especially if you're a "nice guy". Be a douchebag and fark them all...

/not bitter, no...
//should have been a bad guy...
 
2012-05-31 01:39:03 PM

shivashakti: WhippingBoy: Don't be so sure of that: Link

I'm sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you meant in a legal sense. Like legally charged with sexual assault.

I think it's creepy and wrong to ask a strange woman in an elevator if she wants to go back to your hotel room for sex. But is it legally sexual assault? No.


He didn't ask her for sex.
 
2012-05-31 01:40:17 PM

rustypouch: We also want relationships to be based on something more than physical attraction, so we try to get to know women we're interested in before asking them out. We all know how that ends up.


It's a tough situation. I would just suggest being upfront. If you're interested, be clear that your intents are to get to know her in a romantic sense, but you want to spend time with her first.

That way, you're communicating that you're not just interested in her body, but you're also not looking to be just a friend.
 
2012-05-31 01:40:41 PM

shivashakti: Well, that's where online dating comes in handy...
I feel weird about asking strange women out in public places as well. From hanging around feminists, I'm told that women seem to find it intrusive and creepy when unattractive strange men hit on them or ask them out. And I'm unattractive and strange.

Celibacy seems like a much simpler option.


Don't over think it. If the girl you just asked out thinks it was creepy, 1) Fark them, move on. 2) Maybe your approach actually was creepy. Modify it.

There shouldn't be anything particularly awkward about saying "I would like to take you to dinner this Saturday. What are your thoughts?" If she says no or gives you an excuse without suggesting a night that works better, she's not into you. Don't be weird about it, move on.

I think where a lot of guys get into trouble is they wait until they've known the girl too long. They let all these expectations build up in their heads and get obsessed. They wait until they've convinced themselves that this girl is a "once in a lifetime find." Then rejection is a hugely traumatic deal.

If you think you might be interested in a girl, ask her out as soon as possible, before you mindfark yourself.
 
2012-05-31 01:40:43 PM

Phony_Soldier: Yanks_RSJ: Video games and porn are much less expensive and never say no.

Yep, in some cases women are pricing themselves out of the market.


It's true.

The "rise of women" hasn't resulted in the fall of men. It HAS resulted in a much more crowded playing field. The athletes, the investment bankers, the doctors and lawyers, there's about as many as them as there were before. It's just that as women gain more status, more of them feel entitled to one of those men.

I don't bemoan the masses of women who are elevating their status; on the contrary I think it's a huge gain for society. But I do think that social norms need to adjust to account for it.
 
2012-05-31 01:41:20 PM
Well teh last girl I did hook up with asked me out. So that was nice made me feel pretty.
 
2012-05-31 01:41:51 PM

WhippingBoy: He didn't ask her for sex.


Oh, come on....
Asking someone you don't know to come back to your hotel room is asking for sex. If he was looking to get to know her, he'd ask her for a drink at the hotel bar or something.
 
2012-05-31 01:45:12 PM

shivashakti: WhippingBoy: He didn't ask her for sex.

Oh, come on....
Asking someone you don't know to come back to your hotel room is asking for sex. If he was looking to get to know her, he'd ask her for a drink at the hotel bar or something.


You must be a sex addict. Can't two people be alone in a hotel room without doing the sex?
 
2012-05-31 01:48:12 PM
 
2012-05-31 01:48:13 PM
It's easy to ask women out, but wanting a relationship is another thing. I've been engaged twice and the last one stomped out any desire to cohabit again.

I've gotten comfortable living alone. Well, there are the two worthless, lazy and entitled generators of large amounts of cat hair. But I don't have much say in the matter. Both just showed up and won't go away.
 
2012-05-31 01:49:14 PM
All I have to say to the women is this is the other side of the equality equation. It is no longer a situation where men have to be the ones to take the emotional risk and make the first move. With equal rights comes equal responsibilities. The shy, geeky type of guy the one you want? Well then ask them out. Yes, you are going to be taking the emotional risk. That's just how it goes. You can't have it both ways.
 
2012-05-31 01:51:04 PM

shivashakti: WhippingBoy: He didn't ask her for sex.

Oh, come on....
Asking someone you don't know to come back to your hotel room is asking for sex. If he was looking to get to know her, he'd ask her for a drink at the hotel bar or something.


If he asked her for a drink at the hotel bar, it would obviously be so that he could slip GHB into her drink.
 
2012-05-31 01:56:30 PM

Amos Quito: Yanks_RSJ: Video games and porn are much less expensive and never say no.


And they don't nag.


Would you like to take moment to register me?

static.flickr.com
 
2012-05-31 02:10:22 PM

sycraft: All I have to say to the women is this is the other side of the equality equation. It is no longer a situation where men have to be the ones to take the emotional risk and make the first move. With equal rights comes equal responsibilities. The shy, geeky type of guy the one you want? Well then ask them out. Yes, you are going to be taking the emotional risk. That's just how it goes. You can't have it both ways.


Ironically asking a shy, geeky type of guy out carries almost no emotional risk. The odds of him saying no are miniscule.
 
2012-05-31 02:10:27 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: TheOther: Fuggin Bizzy: TheOther: I admit it: being married holds me back on asking women out on dates.

I'm so ashamed!

8 seconds from a simulpost with simulcontent. We should hang out.

Dude...are you asking me out?

Um...that depends. Are you offended or flattered?

/No.


I just think 'falling out of the closet' doesn't cut any more slack from the wife than 'I'm just being sociable...and farking this other chick'.

I'll buy you a beer the next time I go through Montana, though.
 
2012-05-31 02:11:47 PM

sycraft: All I have to say to the women is this is the other side of the equality equation. It is no longer a situation where men have to be the ones to take the emotional risk and make the first move. With equal rights comes equal responsibilities. The shy, geeky type of guy the one you want? Well then ask them out. Yes, you are going to be taking the emotional risk. That's just how it goes. You can't have it both ways.


How dare you suggest that?!?!

"I'm an equal, dammit!"
"You're paying for the date, right?"
 
2012-05-31 02:22:10 PM
I'm a proactive kind of girl. I've asked more men out than have asked me out. Not one of them has taken me up on it. Friendzoned, every. single. time. (In the loosest sense of the word, since every one of those men who said they "valued my friendship" cut off contact immediately thereafter.) Sure, OK, I'm no beauty queen, but neither were they, trust me. My taste runs to the kind of men who can be charitably described as having "an interesting face."

Meanwhile, I routinely have men I've known for years, who are now married, living on another continent, or otherwise unavailable, telling me they wish they'd had the sense to ask me out when they had the chance. When I ask them why, they say they were either too stupid or too insecure.

So let's see... if I take the initiative, men don't have the balls to just say no, so they lie and then slink off into the darkness, never to be seen again. If I wait for men to take the initiative, they won't actually have the balls or sense to say anything until years later, when it's too late.

The only reasonable conclusion I can draw is that men are dumb pussies.

/if I wanted a dumb pussy, I'd date a stripper.
//sure, I've turned down a few. And no, I wasn't a biatch about it. Not even the ones who stalked me.
 
2012-05-31 02:24:54 PM

gglibertine: I'm a proactive kind of girl. I've asked more men out than have asked me out. Not one of them has taken me up on it. Friendzoned, every. single. time. (In the loosest sense of the word, since every one of those men who said they "valued my friendship" cut off contact immediately thereafter.) Sure, OK, I'm no beauty queen, but neither were they, trust me. My taste runs to the kind of men who can be charitably described as having "an interesting face."

Meanwhile, I routinely have men I've known for years, who are now married, living on another continent, or otherwise unavailable, telling me they wish they'd had the sense to ask me out when they had the chance. When I ask them why, they say they were either too stupid or too insecure.

So let's see... if I take the initiative, men don't have the balls to just say no, so they lie and then slink off into the darkness, never to be seen again. If I wait for men to take the initiative, they won't actually have the balls or sense to say anything until years later, when it's too late.

The only reasonable conclusion I can draw is that men are dumb pussies.

/if I wanted a dumb pussy, I'd date a stripper.
//sure, I've turned down a few. And no, I wasn't a biatch about it. Not even the ones who stalked me.


It's truly a mystery why men don't want to have anything to do with you.
 
2012-05-31 02:26:33 PM

gglibertine: I'm a proactive kind of girl. I've asked more men out than have asked me out. Not one of them has taken me up on it. Friendzoned, every. single. time. (In the loosest sense of the word, since every one of those men who said they "valued my friendship" cut off contact immediately thereafter.) Sure, OK, I'm no beauty queen, but neither were they, trust me. My taste runs to the kind of men who can be charitably described as having "an interesting face."

Meanwhile, I routinely have men I've known for years, who are now married, living on another continent, or otherwise unavailable, telling me they wish they'd had the sense to ask me out when they had the chance. When I ask them why, they say they were either too stupid or too insecure.

So let's see... if I take the initiative, men don't have the balls to just say no, so they lie and then slink off into the darkness, never to be seen again. If I wait for men to take the initiative, they won't actually have the balls or sense to say anything until years later, when it's too late.

The only reasonable conclusion I can draw is that men are dumb pussies.

/if I wanted a dumb pussy, I'd date a stripper.
//sure, I've turned down a few. And no, I wasn't a biatch about it. Not even the ones who stalked me.


Maybe those men weren't as ugly as you thought they were. Also: he's just not that into you.
 
2012-05-31 02:27:50 PM

gglibertine: I'm a proactive kind of girl. I've asked more men out than have asked me out. Not one of them has taken me up on it. Friendzoned, every. single. time. (In the loosest sense of the word, since every one of those men who said they "valued my friendship" cut off contact immediately thereafter.) Sure, OK, I'm no beauty queen, but neither were they, trust me. My taste runs to the kind of men who can be charitably described as having "an interesting face."

Meanwhile, I routinely have men I've known for years, who are now married, living on another continent, or otherwise unavailable, telling me they wish they'd had the sense to ask me out when they had the chance. When I ask them why, they say they were either too stupid or too insecure.

So let's see... if I take the initiative, men don't have the balls to just say no, so they lie and then slink off into the darkness, never to be seen again. If I wait for men to take the initiative, they won't actually have the balls or sense to say anything until years later, when it's too late.

The only reasonable conclusion I can draw is that men are dumb pussies.

/if I wanted a dumb pussy, I'd date a stripper.
//sure, I've turned down a few. And no, I wasn't a biatch about it. Not even the ones who stalked me.


Pretty sure we can all see the issue....
 
2012-05-31 02:32:31 PM

gglibertine: /if I wanted a dumb pussy, I'd date a stripper ecdysiast.


FTFGD
 
2012-05-31 02:34:45 PM

rustypouch:
We also want relationships to be based on something more than physical attraction, so we try to get to know women we're interested in before asking them out. We all know how that ends up.


From 4chan of all places:

i.imgur.com

normal sized
 
2012-05-31 02:35:47 PM

sharpie_69: gglibertine: I'm a proactive kind of girl. I've asked more men out than have asked me out. Not one of them has taken me up on it. Friendzoned, every. single. time. (In the loosest sense of the word, since every one of those men who said they "valued my friendship" cut off contact immediately thereafter.) Sure, OK, I'm no beauty queen, but neither were they, trust me. My taste runs to the kind of men who can be charitably described as having "an interesting face."

Meanwhile, I routinely have men I've known for years, who are now married, living on another continent, or otherwise unavailable, telling me they wish they'd had the sense to ask me out when they had the chance. When I ask them why, they say they were either too stupid or too insecure.

So let's see... if I take the initiative, men don't have the balls to just say no, so they lie and then slink off into the darkness, never to be seen again. If I wait for men to take the initiative, they won't actually have the balls or sense to say anything until years later, when it's too late.

The only reasonable conclusion I can draw is that men are dumb pussies.

/if I wanted a dumb pussy, I'd date a stripper.
//sure, I've turned down a few. And no, I wasn't a biatch about it. Not even the ones who stalked me.

Pretty sure we can all see the issue....


To be fair the men should have had the balls to tell her that they needed to level their dwarf warrior in WoW instead of lying.
 
2012-05-31 02:37:44 PM

Mighty_Joe: rustypouch:
We also want relationships to be based on something more than physical attraction, so we try to get to know women we're interested in before asking them out. We all know how that ends up.

From 4chan of all places:

[i.imgur.com image 640x142]

normal sized


Wow. I think that's incredibly well said, and completely true.
 
2012-05-31 02:39:43 PM

BurnShrike: Mighty_Joe: rustypouch:
We also want relationships to be based on something more than physical attraction, so we try to get to know women we're interested in before asking them out. We all know how that ends up.

From 4chan of all places:

[i.imgur.com image 640x142]

normal sized

Wow. I think that's incredibly well said, and completely true.


And it came from 4chan?!?

www.gonzotimes.com
 
2012-05-31 02:40:56 PM
As has been mentioned... in this era where a man's life can be ruined by a woman crying sexual assault for just speaking to her, why bother with women?

Prostitution should be legal. Money for services, with the transaction conducted in a safe, legal establishment. It's the American way!
 
2012-05-31 02:41:12 PM

gglibertine: The only reasonable conclusion I can draw is that men are dumb pussies.


And you'd be correct. They're to blame for the complaints they have about women. Guys start of thinking they're so awesome that they'll find a women with model looks, ribald sense of humor, and all sorts of other "ideal" traits. Then they suffer one or two blows to the self confidence and fold like a paper napkin and settle for the next thing that comes along. "Well, I'm getting laid, and she's pretty cute, so I guess I should just settle down." Then they wind up feeling cheated out of something "better in life" and resent marriage, their wife, and everything they essentially agreed to go along with.

Most men never make the connection that women are people and, shockingly, they are not all the same. Men just need to wait until they find one that makes their dick hard, wants the same things they do out of life, and is willing to work as a team to get there. Then settle down and life will be grand.
 
2012-05-31 02:41:34 PM
The problem is that men are led to believe that they get sex by asking women out on dates.

I guess it's something you have to do if you're a beta herb, but if you start off the relationship by framing your relationship where the male asks and the woman consents, then you're pretty much doomed. It's a strategy adopted by life's failures, and attractive women seem to instinctively know this.

Also, men are turned off by most modern American women because so many of them are ridiculously fat. As a result, the men are competing for a relatively small pool of bang-able women.

And, out of the ones that are slender enough to inspire an erection from an able-bodied man, the vast majority of the remainder are feminist assholes. They've been taught to exhibit masculine traits, not feminine ones. They think that having high-paying jobs and college degrees is what makes them attractive. Female law students are the absolute worst, in that regard.
 
2012-05-31 02:43:30 PM

FirstNationalBastard: As has been mentioned... in this era where a man's life can be ruined by a woman crying sexual assault for just speaking to her, why bother with women?

Prostitution should be legal. Money for services, with the transaction conducted in a safe, legal establishment. It's the American way!


Legalize VitaminP
 
2012-05-31 02:44:50 PM

gglibertine: I'm a proactive kind of girl. I've asked more men out than have asked me out. Not one of them has taken me up on it. Friendzoned, every. single. time. (In the loosest sense of the word, since every one of those men who said they "valued my friendship" cut off contact immediately thereafter.) Sure, OK, I'm no beauty queen, but neither were they, trust me. My taste runs to the kind of men who can be charitably described as having "an interesting face."

Meanwhile, I routinely have men I've known for years, who are now married, living on another continent, or otherwise unavailable, telling me they wish they'd had the sense to ask me out when they had the chance. When I ask them why, they say they were either too stupid or too insecure.

So let's see... if I take the initiative, men don't have the balls to just say no, so they lie and then slink off into the darkness, never to be seen again. If I wait for men to take the initiative, they won't actually have the balls or sense to say anything until years later, when it's too late.

The only reasonable conclusion I can draw is that men are dumb pussies.

/if I wanted a dumb pussy, I'd date a stripper.
//sure, I've turned down a few. And no, I wasn't a biatch about it. Not even the ones who stalked me.


I come to the conclusion that you've got some anger issues, and are only appealing to guys who've discovered they've married worse.
 
2012-05-31 02:46:40 PM
Dealing with the opposite sex isn't difficult. Just be nice, be honest, and remember the Golden Rule. Corny, but still true. You will eventually find someone who is on the same page as you, but it can take time.

If you are having consistent trouble in your love life, the problem is YOU.

Don't be afraid to get help with this kind of thing if you need to. In the long run, it is cheaper and easier than dealing with your issues via your romantic relationships.

Just my 2 cents.
 
2012-05-31 02:49:36 PM

shivashakti: Well, that's where online dating comes in handy...
I feel weird about asking strange women out in public places as well. From hanging around feminists, I'm told that women seem to find it intrusive and creepy when unattractive strange men hit on them or ask them out. And I'm unattractive and strange.

Celibacy seems like a much simpler option.


I read a really cool thread on another forum where a bunch of women discussed what made for a "creepy" vibe from a guy.

1) the guy hitting on them
2) the guy crossing/violating personal boundaries while hitting on them
3) the guy being apparently clueless, indifferent, or entitled that he was crossing personal boundaries while hitting on them.

And it can send off a creepy vibe even if the guy is attractive, sociable and financially well-endowed. (Gee, you're talking about me moving in after a first date....um....no.)
 
2012-05-31 02:49:47 PM

BurnShrike: Wow. I think that's incredibly well said, and completely true.


Complete bullshiat. That has to be the biggest heap of pseudo-psychological drivel I have seen in a while. And it's simply a rephrasing of what any early twenty-something or otherwise stunted single person thinks. And it's a huge part of why people behave the way they do in relationships, resulting in continual failure and resentment of the opposite sex. Bunk. Hogwash. Crap.
 
2012-05-31 02:52:07 PM

Julie Cochrane: shivashakti: Well, that's where online dating comes in handy...
I feel weird about asking strange women out in public places as well. From hanging around feminists, I'm told that women seem to find it intrusive and creepy when unattractive strange men hit on them or ask them out. And I'm unattractive and strange.

Celibacy seems like a much simpler option.

I read a really cool thread on another forum where a bunch of women discussed what made for a "creepy" vibe from a guy.

1) the guy hitting on them
2) the guy crossing/violating personal boundaries while hitting on them
3) the guy being apparently clueless, indifferent, or entitled that he was crossing personal boundaries while hitting on them.

And it can send off a creepy vibe even if the guy is attractive, sociable and financially well-endowed. (Gee, you're talking about me moving in after a first date....um....no.)


Are those three items inclusive or exclusive? For example, is "the guy hitting on them" without the other two aspects considered to be creepy?
 
2012-05-31 02:59:31 PM

Mighty_Joe: rustypouch:
We also want relationships to be based on something more than physical attraction, so we try to get to know women we're interested in before asking them out. We all know how that ends up.

From 4chan of all places:

[i.imgur.com image 640x142]

normal sized


Yep... a rehash of the ladder theory.
 
2012-05-31 03:01:11 PM

WhippingBoy: Are those three items inclusive or exclusive? For example, is "the guy hitting on them" without the other two aspects considered to be creepy?


The difference between attraction and revulsion takes place in a very old part of the brain, and completely supplants all rational thought. It's instinctive and not a matter of choice.

Sexually unsuccessful men mistakenly believe that if they emulate the approach tactics of attractive men, they will get the same kind of response. It doesn't work that way.

If a highly attractive man hits on woman, she does not find it creepy. She finds it intoxicating. The same woman, however, experiencing the same behavior from a man she perceives as inferior to her will trigger feelings of revulsion and sometimes panic.

These perceptions take place extremely quickly, and a woman's instinctive reaction is usually formed long before the "hitting on me" behavior starts.

In other words, if you're attractive enough, you don't need to hit on women. They hit on you.
 
2012-05-31 03:02:23 PM
I've resigned to the fact I will die alone.
People do it every day.
It's fallacious to assume you "will" find someone.
 
2012-05-31 03:04:05 PM

stonicus: It's fallacious to assume you "will" find someone.


Of course it is. And the contrary is true as well. Resigning yourself to any fate is silly. Why not live life open to any possibility and just not think about it?
 
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