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(MSNBC)   Economic growth slowed to barely 1.9% in the first quarter as government spending on all levels dropped by 4%. It's almost as if the two have an inverse relationship or something   (economywatch.msnbc.msn.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, economic growths, residential construction, Honeywell, gross domestic products, government spending, United States Department of Commerce  
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1929 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 May 2012 at 10:21 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-31 09:59:31 AM  
On such subject matter, consulting respected (and in some cases award winning) economists would be a good thing. Instead, we call them ivory tower hacks and instead tune in to watch Jim Cramer push red buttons and throw rubber cows around while giving his 'insights'.
 
2012-05-31 10:22:26 AM  
The economy is in the shiatter.

Film at 11
 
2012-05-31 10:23:08 AM  
So tax cuts for the rich then?
 
2012-05-31 10:23:27 AM  
Wrong. I've been assured by top men... TOP MEN... that government spending crowds out private investment. Always. There is no "all else being equal" here.
 
2012-05-31 10:23:40 AM  
Inverse?
 
2012-05-31 10:23:53 AM  
After Obama gets tossed and Romney picks up where Bush left off, things will go completely to hell. And it'll all be Obama's fault. Wait and see.
 
2012-05-31 10:23:57 AM  
Cue the parade of trolls screaming "correlation, not causality!" in 3, 2, 1....
 
2012-05-31 10:24:15 AM  
That's actually a direct relationship, subby. If it was inverse, economic growth rate would rise as government spending falls (or vice versa).
 
2012-05-31 10:25:03 AM  

Sock Ruh Tease: That's actually a direct relationship, subby. If it was inverse, economic growth rate would rise as government spending falls (or vice versa).


Thanks, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who came here to say that.
 
2012-05-31 10:25:05 AM  
a decrease in one, related to a decrease in the other is not "inverse", but direct.
 
2012-05-31 10:25:10 AM  
We are going to need more tax cuts for the rich! And if they already pay nothing, we are going to need to pay them!
 
2012-05-31 10:25:28 AM  

markfara: After Obama gets tossed and Romney picks up where Bush left off, things will go completely to hell. And it'll all be Obama's fault. Wait and see.


It will be. The Republicans will blame the teachings of Saul Alinksy and his competitiveness for the community vs. the competitiveness of self as the reason Obama didn't give it his all and let Romney come in and screw us all.
 
2012-05-31 10:25:56 AM  

scrumpox: Inverse?


spud.wetfish.net
 
2012-05-31 10:26:34 AM  

Sock Ruh Tease: That's actually a direct relationship, subby. If it was inverse, economic growth rate would rise as government spending falls (or vice versa).


Whoa! Subby got MATHOWNED!
 
2012-05-31 10:26:41 AM  
TFA also said corporate profits are down.

So logically, more corporate profits!
 
2012-05-31 10:26:44 AM  
Seems like a direct relationship to me. Where is the inverse? One goes down, the other goes down. Is that inverse now?
 
2012-05-31 10:27:01 AM  

markfara: After Obama gets tossed and Romney picks up where Bush left off, things will go completely to hell. And it'll all be Obama's fault. Wait and see.


Hey, they blamed the greatest security failure in US history on a guy who hadn't been in charge of anything in 9 months.
 
2012-05-31 10:27:29 AM  

Sock Ruh Tease: That's actually a direct relationship, subby. If it was inverse, economic growth rate would rise as government spending falls (or vice versa).


Maybe subby has made a Freudian slip and reveals himself to be an Independent™ ,
 
2012-05-31 10:28:02 AM  
You lefties all believe that government is the driving force behind prosperity and not private investment. Every dollar the government spends comes from the pockets of the taxpayer ( or increasingly is borrowed from China ).

But yeah, lets just keep shoveling money onto a bonfire and hope things get better.
 
2012-05-31 10:28:28 AM  
Heard a great piece on NPR, set context by pointing out that austerity was killing growth in Europe, and that both sides needed to reconsider their plans regarding the Bush Tax Cuts and the Spending Cuts Trigger. Instead of a trigger based on time, have it be based on set goals. I think the numbers he used was 3% growth and 5% unemployment.

The fact is, all the sabre rattling is keeping corporations and people in a constant state of fear, and recovery is not going to be fixed by dropping the hammer right now. We should stop talking about the f'ing deficit, we should stop talking about debt, we should stop talking about fetuses and vajyjays, we should be focused on building the economy.
 
2012-05-31 10:28:59 AM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: On such subject matter, consulting respected (and in some cases award winning) economists would be a good thing. Instead, we call them ivory tower hacks and instead tune in to watch Jim Cramer push red buttons and throw rubber cows around while giving his 'insights'.


It's like getting all of your health information from Dr. Oz while he molests women on stage and gives contradictory advice, sometimes in the same episode.
 
2012-05-31 10:29:07 AM  
I make sub-$30k per year and have my checkbook at the ready - where is that list of job creators at so I may start filling out checks?

I'm not poor enough yet and that's why the economy is bad! I need to give more money to rich people!!
 
2012-05-31 10:29:13 AM  
Yesterday: `Household debt is at an all-time high. Stop spending!'

Today: `Economic growth has slowed! Spend, dammit! CONSUME!!!'
 
2012-05-31 10:29:25 AM  

MFAWG: markfara: After Obama gets tossed and Romney picks up where Bush left off, things will go completely to hell. And it'll all be Obama's fault. Wait and see.

Hey, they blamed the greatest security failure in US history on a guy who hadn't been in charge of anything in 9 months.


Look, if Clinton had just read that Aug 2001 memo from the Minneapolis FBI office, we would haven't to fear a body cavity search every time we go through airport security.
 
2012-05-31 10:29:55 AM  

Zagloba: Wrong. I've been assured by top men... TOP MEN... that government spending crowds out private investment. Always. There is no "all else being equal" here.


Do you know what your sin is?
 
2012-05-31 10:30:01 AM  
dem teechers had it comin

Im donatin my disabilty chek to carl rov.
 
2012-05-31 10:30:54 AM  
People holding on tight to their $$ in an election year... color me shocked.
 
2012-05-31 10:33:15 AM  
Did someone mention that its not an inverse relationship??
 
2012-05-31 10:33:35 AM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: You lefties all believe that government is the driving force behind prosperity and not private investment. Every dollar the government spends comes from the pockets of the taxpayer ( or increasingly is borrowed from China ).

But yeah, lets just keep shoveling money onto a bonfire and hope things get better.


Ah, no. Not the driving force. But as you may have noticed, the US economy needs a bit of help.

Private investment? What caused your crisis in the first place?


Glad I no longer live there.
 
2012-05-31 10:34:22 AM  

oldfarthenry: Yesterday: `Household debt is at an all-time high. Stop spending!'

Today: `Economic growth has slowed! Spend, dammit! CONSUME!!!'


Unfortunately, since all the wealth is being pushed to the top, the only way people can spend and drive the economy is to borrow. If only we had some way of moving money from the top of the economic chain to the bottom and middle where it would be useful.
 
2012-05-31 10:34:29 AM  

deeyablo: Heard a great piece on NPR, set context by pointing out that austerity was killing growth in Europe, and that both sides needed to reconsider their plans regarding the Bush Tax Cuts and the Spending Cuts Trigger. Instead of a trigger based on time, have it be based on set goals. I think the numbers he used was 3% growth and 5% unemployment.

The fact is, all the sabre rattling is keeping corporations and people in a constant state of fear, and recovery is not going to be fixed by dropping the hammer right now. We should stop talking about the f'ing deficit, we should stop talking about debt, we should stop talking about fetuses and vajyjays, we should be focused on building the economy.


What is actually killing Europe is that for decades they built their economies around a retardedly generous welfare state and have been ringing up huge debts to pay for that all along the way. All of this has finally come to a head for them. The crisis of 2008-09 was simply the straw that broke the camel's back.
 
2012-05-31 10:34:41 AM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: But yeah, lets just keep shoveling money onto a bonfire and hope things get better.


I agree - let's increase the tax rate of those who make more than $1,000,000 per year to 45%.

Instead of going towards nothing but offshore bank accounts it goes to actually doing something.
 
2012-05-31 10:34:41 AM  
1.9% growth is better than 8% negative growth we saw under Bush's last quarter.
 
2012-05-31 10:35:03 AM  

Airportmatt: Sock Ruh Tease: That's actually a direct relationship, subby. If it was inverse, economic growth rate would rise as government spending falls (or vice versa).

Whoa! Subby got MATHOWNED!


Perhaps Subby is making a double outsmarting commentary on the fantastical economic theories which are thrown around in political discourse these days. Talking heads spout such garbage all the time. "The bail out of GM severely harmed the economy and harmed GM," or such gems as "We would be in much better shape if all of the major banks and AIG were allowed to fail and go away." These statements (which are all horse-shiate) begin with the premise that government involvement in economic stability causes the instability to worsen.

Maybe Subby is actually a dry humored genius who is actually making fun of this kind of pseudo-economic slop.

(But I don't think so.)
 
2012-05-31 10:36:33 AM  
The problem with the headline is that government spending has not dropped one bit. It's all phony math. If you look at the real numbers, government spending is up.

Link

Grab the full PDF, turn to page 14. Notice 2011 outlays of $3.598 billion compared to 2012 outlays of $3.601 billion. Spending is up, not down. Same last year and the year before. Repeat. 2013 is predicted to go down, but "cuts" are promised and never delivered.
 
2012-05-31 10:36:34 AM  
Don't you people understand economics at all?

We need to keep the gays from marrying and ban all abortions.

Only after we have implemented these social reforms (oh, and and un-elected the black dude), will the economy will recover.
 
2012-05-31 10:37:26 AM  

Epoch_Zero: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: But yeah, lets just keep shoveling money onto a bonfire and hope things get better.

I agree - let's increase the tax rate of those who make more than $1,000,000 per year to 45%.

Instead of going towards nothing but offshore bank accounts it goes to actually doing something.



That would be shoveling more money on the bonfire. I think there would be far less opposition to higher taxes if our government wasn't so bloated, corrupt and so blatantly wasteful of the resources it already has.
 
2012-05-31 10:37:30 AM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: You lefties all believe that government is the driving force behind prosperity and not private investment. Every dollar the government spends comes from the pockets of the taxpayer ( or increasingly is borrowed from China ).

But yeah, lets just keep shoveling money onto a bonfire and hope things get better.


Yea. stoopid lefties. Romney nows loding up on det is no way too be prosprus.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-05-31 10:37:31 AM  
already been confirmed that any claims of government spending falling this year is a complete crock.
 
2012-05-31 10:37:37 AM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: But yeah, lets just keep shoveling money onto a bonfire and hope things get better.


That's no way to talk about your elders. They earned those benefits mister.
 
2012-05-31 10:38:20 AM  

coeyagi: Cue the parade of trolls screaming "correlation, not causality!" in 3, 2, 1....


I would, except that I know that GDP = C + I + G + (X- M)... so it's definitely doing something.
 
2012-05-31 10:39:04 AM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: You lefties all believe that government is the driving force behind prosperity and not private investment. Every dollar the government spends comes from the pockets of the taxpayer ( or increasingly is borrowed from China ).

But yeah, lets just keep shoveling money onto a bonfire and hope things get better.


No one believes that. What many believe, and what gets proven to be correct time and again, is that Keynesian theory for macroeconomics, especially as it pertains to government spending during recessions or worse times, is correct. The alternative, austerity, is the worst possible thing you can do when private capital dries up. For current examples, see: Europe now, and Japan's lost decade. The Japanese financial heads said in an interview that they regretted the fact that they stopped deficit spending when their economy didn't get better after the first year or two. They chickened, went to austerity, and their economy froze up for a decade.

Should we carry deficits forever, no. Should we balance the budget, yes. Is this what we should be most concerned about right now, no.
 
2012-05-31 10:39:17 AM  
Wait till the mandatory cuts caused by the recalcitrant GOPhers in the so-called Super Committee kick in.
 
2012-05-31 10:39:19 AM  
deeyablo:
Heard a great piece on NPR, set context by pointing out that austerity was killing growth in Europe,

...which is a load of crap.

The only economy over there that's been doing well at all is Germany's - the one that started enacting actual austerity measures a few years back. They're the ones who want everyone else to spend less on government, because it works.

On the other hand, the countries which are falling apart are the ones where "austerity" means "government spending is only going to grow by four percent per year instead of the six per cent we're used to."
 
2012-05-31 10:39:50 AM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: Epoch_Zero: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: But yeah, lets just keep shoveling money onto a bonfire and hope things get better.

I agree - let's increase the tax rate of those who make more than $1,000,000 per year to 45%.

Instead of going towards nothing but offshore bank accounts it goes to actually doing something.


That would be shoveling more money on the bonfire. I think there would be far less opposition to higher taxes if our government wasn't so bloated, corrupt and so blatantly wasteful of the resources it already has.


Republican's won't let us cut the most bloated and blatantly wasteful part of the budget.
 
2012-05-31 10:39:57 AM  
Growth through Government spending is imaginary. It's like getting an increase on the credit card limit and calling it a raise.
 
2012-05-31 10:40:54 AM  
I wonder what will happen when global GDP drops below the level necessary to fund the collective service of existing worldwide debt.
 
2012-05-31 10:40:59 AM  

The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: Epoch_Zero: The_Sheriff_Is_A_Niiii: But yeah, lets just keep shoveling money onto a bonfire and hope things get better.

I agree - let's increase the tax rate of those who make more than $1,000,000 per year to 45%.

Instead of going towards nothing but offshore bank accounts it goes to actually doing something.


That would be shoveling more money on the bonfire. I think there would be far less opposition to higher taxes if our government wasn't so bloated, corrupt and so blatantly wasteful of the resources it already has.


And the poor are poor because they choose to be, amiright?
 
2012-05-31 10:41:41 AM  

deeyablo: Heard a great piece on NPR, set context by pointing out that austerity was killing growth in Europe, and that both sides needed to reconsider their plans regarding the Bush Tax Cuts and the Spending Cuts Trigger. Instead of a trigger based on time, have it be based on set goals. I think the numbers he used was 3% growth and 5% unemployment.

The fact is, all the sabre rattling is keeping corporations and people in a constant state of fear, and recovery is not going to be fixed by dropping the hammer right now. We should stop talking about the f'ing deficit, we should stop talking about debt, we should stop talking about fetuses and vajyjays, we should be focused on building the economy.


Yeah that was Robert Reich, the uc Berkeley policy analyst, who is the libbiest lib who ever libbed. He, as you said, is for extending the bush tax cuts, which I hope blew a few conservatives circuits.

His ideas are interesting, deal with the debt when the economy booms, during the bust only care about fixing the economy.
 
2012-05-31 10:41:52 AM  
well, holy crap Batman! All we have to do to increase the GDP is continue deficit spending! LETS GET TO IT.
 
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