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(The Hill)   Attacks on Bain Capital are fair game because they are not attacks on capitalism, which apparently means attacks on capitalism are not fair game, because this is the home of the free, where we all agree on economic philosophy or else you commie   (thehill.com) divider line 90
    More: Dumbass, Bain Capital, obama  
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595 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 May 2012 at 1:37 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-31 10:18:09 AM
laughingsquid.com
 
2012-05-31 10:19:24 AM
I think that the attacks on Bain capital are relevant to Mitten's election campaign. It is really telling of how he would handle his job by comparing his previous job in Bain.

Then again the author is an idiot for implying that attacks on capitalism are wrong.
 
2012-05-31 10:20:37 AM
To constitute an attack on business, on capitalism or even on private equity, the Obama campaign would have to be asserting that most businesses operate this way. That is exactly the opposite of what they are claiming. They are asserting that a particular company, run by candidate Romney, acted irresponsibly, leaving employees with nothing while it took millions and shifted responsibilities to government that the company refused to meet. Most businesses don't operate that way.

And at the end of the day, that allegation is true. Oh, the GOP shills can dance all they want...they'll scream, they'll puke, they'll wave their hands in the air...but they can't lie their way outta this one - Bain Capital was run by a bunch of greedy, self centered amoral bastards...and Romney was their leader. So the Republicans want to put this greedy, amoral self centered bastard in charge of the country.
 
2012-05-31 10:31:53 AM
I'll say it again: The last Republican who wanted to run America like a business took a budget surplus, turned it into trillion dollar deficits, started two wars "paid for" by tax cuts, sat around with his thumb up his ass while his corporate donors raided the Treasury, and left the country with high unemployment.
 
2012-05-31 10:53:16 AM

Mentat: I'll say it again: The last Republican who wanted to run America like a business took a budget surplus, turned it into trillion dollar deficits, started two wars "paid for" by tax cuts, sat around with his thumb up his ass while his corporate donors raided the Treasury, and left the country with high unemployment.


And your point is?

Airlines.
Banks.
Wall Street.

This is how business is done.
 
2012-05-31 10:54:13 AM

cman: I think that the attacks on Bain capital are relevant to Mitten's election campaign. It is really telling of how he would handle his job by comparing his previous job in Bain.


Especially given that his experience in Bain is pretty much all he's running on. He's avoiding his tenure as governor of Masschusetts as much as possible, so this is all he really has. If he can't tolerate any sort of scrutiny about the thing he says makes him qualified to be President, then there's a huge problem.
 
2012-05-31 10:56:50 AM

Mentat: I'll say it again: The last Republican who wanted to run America like a business took a budget surplus, turned it into trillion dollar deficits, started two wars "paid for" by tax cuts, sat around with his thumb up his ass while his corporate donors raided the Treasury, and left the country with high unemployment.


That sounds exactly like how people run businesses.
 
2012-05-31 10:57:00 AM

edmo: Mentat: I'll say it again: The last Republican who wanted to run America like a business took a budget surplus, turned it into trillion dollar deficits, started two wars "paid for" by tax cuts, sat around with his thumb up his ass while his corporate donors raided the Treasury, and left the country with high unemployment.

And your point is?

Airlines.
Banks.
Wall Street.

This is how business is done.


That's your defense? Invoking Wall Street? Sure, whatever, run with that.
 
2012-05-31 11:28:04 AM
We should come up with an optional "greed" law.
You can only make a 20% profit.

If you do not want to participate or abide by it, you will get zero tax breaks, and you will be allowed to fail unconditionally.

On second thought, let's just do the latter.
 
2012-05-31 12:07:41 PM
Good point, subby. Bain Capital is not just one anomaly, but is central to the financialization of the economy, which itself has become necessary to sustain capitalism. This silencing of any questioning of capitalism itself is bizarre. It also doesn't mean one is a communist.
 
2012-05-31 12:14:25 PM

coco ebert: Good point, subby. Bain Capital is not just one anomaly, but is central to the financialization of the economy, which itself has become necessary to sustain capitalism. This silencing of any questioning of capitalism itself is bizarre. It also doesn't mean one is a communist.


it's weird to see GOP shills immediately accuse people of being communists. ANY questions asked about why corporations screw people over gets you tagged as 'librul' and/or 'communist'. sometimes even socialist, which is when it gets REALLY bizarre....

it's not 'communist' to ask if it's ok to let corporations loot and pillage the economy at will. it's not condemning all of capitalism if we discuss reasonable limits on the concept of 'creative destruction'.
 
2012-05-31 12:33:51 PM

Weaver95: coco ebert: Good point, subby. Bain Capital is not just one anomaly, but is central to the financialization of the economy, which itself has become necessary to sustain capitalism. This silencing of any questioning of capitalism itself is bizarre. It also doesn't mean one is a communist.

it's weird to see GOP shills immediately accuse people of being communists. ANY questions asked about why corporations screw people over gets you tagged as 'librul' and/or 'communist'. sometimes even socialist, which is when it gets REALLY bizarre....

it's not 'communist' to ask if it's ok to let corporations loot and pillage the economy at will. it's not condemning all of capitalism if we discuss reasonable limits on the concept of 'creative destruction'.


It makes sense when the GOP's economic policy is akin to a religion. Theological Randianism we can call it.
 
2012-05-31 12:36:49 PM

Aarontology: Weaver95: coco ebert: Good point, subby. Bain Capital is not just one anomaly, but is central to the financialization of the economy, which itself has become necessary to sustain capitalism. This silencing of any questioning of capitalism itself is bizarre. It also doesn't mean one is a communist.

it's weird to see GOP shills immediately accuse people of being communists. ANY questions asked about why corporations screw people over gets you tagged as 'librul' and/or 'communist'. sometimes even socialist, which is when it gets REALLY bizarre....

it's not 'communist' to ask if it's ok to let corporations loot and pillage the economy at will. it's not condemning all of capitalism if we discuss reasonable limits on the concept of 'creative destruction'.

It makes sense when the GOP's economic policy is akin to a religion. Theological Randianism we can call it.


it's just getting f*cking weird out there is all. asking any questions about GOP goals can earn you a vicious personal attack.
 
2012-05-31 12:39:35 PM

Weaver95: it's just getting f*cking weird out there is all. asking any questions about GOP goals can earn you a vicious personal attack.


Which ironically has turned the GOP in general, the tea party in particular, into an incredibly collectivist organization. Rigid ideological purity or GTFO
 
2012-05-31 12:46:21 PM

Weaver95: coco ebert: Good point, subby. Bain Capital is not just one anomaly, but is central to the financialization of the economy, which itself has become necessary to sustain capitalism. This silencing of any questioning of capitalism itself is bizarre. It also doesn't mean one is a communist.

it's weird to see GOP shills immediately accuse people of being communists. ANY questions asked about why corporations screw people over gets you tagged as 'librul' and/or 'communist'. sometimes even socialist, which is when it gets REALLY bizarre....

it's not 'communist' to ask if it's ok to let corporations loot and pillage the economy at will. it's not condemning all of capitalism if we discuss reasonable limits on the concept of 'creative destruction'.


Yup. That's why I like subby's headline. We do ourselves a disservice if we even accept the terms of the argument. But it's not about Bain Capital, it's about our larger system of wealth distribution (uh oh, another dangerous phrase!).

I think fundamentally, right-wingers and liberals answer the question "What is society for?" in completely different ways, and that's why I'm not sure there will ever be agreement.
 
2012-05-31 12:51:26 PM

coco ebert:
I think fundamentally, right-wingers and liberals answer the question "What is society for?" in completely different ways, and that's why I'm not sure there will ever be agreement.


we're not even permitted to have the discussion, let alone come to any sort of agreement about anything! look at the sheer amount of bile spewing venom that investment bankers and GOP shills have puked out over the Bain capital ads. at no point did the valiant Republican defenders even bother to discuss what Bain capital did, they just went right for the 'OMG SOCALISMS'! and that was it - game over.
 
2012-05-31 12:52:38 PM

Weaver95: coco ebert:
I think fundamentally, right-wingers and liberals answer the question "What is society for?" in completely different ways, and that's why I'm not sure there will ever be agreement.

we're not even permitted to have the discussion, let alone come to any sort of agreement about anything! look at the sheer amount of bile spewing venom that investment bankers and GOP shills have puked out over the Bain capital ads. at no point did the valiant Republican defenders even bother to discuss what Bain capital did, they just went right for the 'OMG SOCALISMS'! and that was it - game over.


And now the Koch brothers are set to pour $1 billion into this election. I'm not sure you can beat that type of money.
 
2012-05-31 12:53:45 PM

coco ebert: Weaver95: coco ebert:
I think fundamentally, right-wingers and liberals answer the question "What is society for?" in completely different ways, and that's why I'm not sure there will ever be agreement.

we're not even permitted to have the discussion, let alone come to any sort of agreement about anything! look at the sheer amount of bile spewing venom that investment bankers and GOP shills have puked out over the Bain capital ads. at no point did the valiant Republican defenders even bother to discuss what Bain capital did, they just went right for the 'OMG SOCALISMS'! and that was it - game over.

And now the Koch brothers are set to pour $1 billion into this election. I'm not sure you can beat that type of money.


we have one thing going for us - the Republicans are run by a bunch of idiots.
 
2012-05-31 01:11:07 PM

Weaver95: coco ebert: Weaver95: coco ebert:
I think fundamentally, right-wingers and liberals answer the question "What is society for?" in completely different ways, and that's why I'm not sure there will ever be agreement.

we're not even permitted to have the discussion, let alone come to any sort of agreement about anything! look at the sheer amount of bile spewing venom that investment bankers and GOP shills have puked out over the Bain capital ads. at no point did the valiant Republican defenders even bother to discuss what Bain capital did, they just went right for the 'OMG SOCALISMS'! and that was it - game over.

And now the Koch brothers are set to pour $1 billion into this election. I'm not sure you can beat that type of money.

we have one thing going for us - the Republicans are run by a bunch of idiots.


That's true, heh heh. And Mittbot is the worst candidate since Kerry.
 
2012-05-31 01:41:46 PM
How's that Hopey Changey thing working out for you? Next time vote Nopey Samey.
 
2012-05-31 01:42:32 PM

coco ebert: Weaver95: coco ebert: Good point, subby. Bain Capital is not just one anomaly, but is central to the financialization of the economy, which itself has become necessary to sustain capitalism. This silencing of any questioning of capitalism itself is bizarre. It also doesn't mean one is a communist.

it's weird to see GOP shills immediately accuse people of being communists. ANY questions asked about why corporations screw people over gets you tagged as 'librul' and/or 'communist'. sometimes even socialist, which is when it gets REALLY bizarre....

it's not 'communist' to ask if it's ok to let corporations loot and pillage the economy at will. it's not condemning all of capitalism if we discuss reasonable limits on the concept of 'creative destruction'.

Yup. That's why I like subby's headline. We do ourselves a disservice if we even accept the terms of the argument. But it's not about Bain Capital, it's about our larger system of wealth distribution (uh oh, another dangerous phrase!).

I think fundamentally, right-wingers and liberals answer the question "What is society for?" in completely different ways, and that's why I'm not sure there will ever be agreement.

-
When I feed the hungry, they call me a saint. When I ask why people are hungry, they call me a Communist. - Dom Helder Camara
 
2012-05-31 01:42:36 PM
Attacks on greed-ridden types of business entities like Bain!= "attacks on capitalism."

Unethical practices should always be challenged.
 
2012-05-31 01:44:25 PM

Weaver95: coco ebert: Weaver95: coco ebert:
I think fundamentally, right-wingers and liberals answer the question "What is society for?" in completely different ways, and that's why I'm not sure there will ever be agreement.

we're not even permitted to have the discussion, let alone come to any sort of agreement about anything! look at the sheer amount of bile spewing venom that investment bankers and GOP shills have puked out over the Bain capital ads. at no point did the valiant Republican defenders even bother to discuss what Bain capital did, they just went right for the 'OMG SOCALISMS'! and that was it - game over.

And now the Koch brothers are set to pour $1 billion into this election. I'm not sure you can beat that type of money.

we have one thing going for us - the Republicans are run by a bunch of idiots.


I think Obama's in fine shape. But somehow, a ton of people don't realize that there's a congressional election as well, let alone state congresses and governors and such.

I'm not too worried about money poured into the Romney campaign. I'm terrified of all the money that'll be poured into other races.

Campaign spending in 2010 way outpaced spending in 2008, and that was without a presidential election. After 2010, 31 governors were Republicans.
 
2012-05-31 01:45:39 PM
I agree with Subby's basic point. Its a discussion that needs to be had.

but I also think we as intelligent liberals need to understand that firing people isn't always evil and its good for everyone when business makes a shiatload of money. which isn't to say ra ra ra free market, but still, Bain Capital is morally neutral. Its not really about "greed." We all have to make money and rich people pride themselves on simply doing that better than everyone else. For them its like points in a game rather than food on a plate. Which as I say isn't evil, but its still a serious problem.
 
2012-05-31 01:51:48 PM

megaparty: I agree with Subby's basic point. Its a discussion that needs to be had.

but I also think we as intelligent liberals need to understand that firing people isn't always evil and its good for everyone when business makes a shiatload of money. which isn't to say ra ra ra free market, but still, Bain Capital is morally neutral. Its not really about "greed." We all have to make money and rich people pride themselves on simply doing that better than everyone else. For them its like points in a game rather than food on a plate. Which as I say isn't evil, but its still a serious problem.


This is not always the case. shiatloads of money can be made in ways that are profoundly bad for a majority of people. If my business makes a shiatload of money, but I pollute your water supply in the process, is that good for everyone? If my business makes a shiatload of money, but you and 12 other people are killed in a preventable industrial accident is that good for everyone? If my business makes a shiatload of money, but I weaken the economic well being of an entire community is that good for everyone?
 
2012-05-31 01:52:33 PM

Bonkthat_Again: We should come up with an optional "greed" law.
You can only make a 20% profit.

If you do not want to participate or abide by it, you will get zero tax breaks, and you will be allowed to fail unconditionally.

On second thought, let's just do the latter.


Actually a Value Added Tax would be a much better proposition. Buy something for $0.01 and sell it for $100? Fine. Just write a check for $40 of it to "the Department of the Treasury", Washington, DC.
 
2012-05-31 01:55:02 PM

Weaver95: coco ebert:
I think fundamentally, right-wingers and liberals answer the question "What is society for?" in completely different ways, and that's why I'm not sure there will ever be agreement.

we're not even permitted to have the discussion, let alone come to any sort of agreement about anything! look at the sheer amount of bile spewing venom that investment bankers and GOP shills have puked out over the Bain capital ads. at no point did the valiant Republican defenders even bother to discuss what Bain capital did, they just went right for the 'OMG SOCALISMS'! and that was it - game over.


Maybe not in the echo chamber in which you live.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230336050457741057365184 5 802.html
 
2012-05-31 01:55:02 PM
If all that 0bama can do is run negative and inaccurate campaigns instead of running on his record, he is desperate and thinks he is losing.

he took the high road in 2008 and now has nothing positive to say about his accomplishments and the health of the economy so the best he can do is but...but...but...Romney.
 
2012-05-31 01:55:42 PM
FTFA:


Private equity exists to make profits. None of that is inherently evil.


Bullshiat.
 
2012-05-31 01:57:03 PM

megaparty: but I also think we as intelligent liberals need to understand that firing people isn't always evil and its good for everyone when business makes a shiatload of money


Actually, downsizing is, and and it usually is pretty sh*tty when some company makes record profits while laying off/offshoring the workforce.

Is this a joke?
 
2012-05-31 02:00:58 PM
So what, this is the how manyth time Obama has gotten to dictate the narrative this election? The more they rush to defend Bain, the more people start looking at what Bain does, and be repulsed by it.

Just like the war on women, this will massively backfire for the GOP. They need to get off this topic, and fast, but their own shrills and personality cults won't let them.
 
2012-05-31 02:02:40 PM

mat catastrophe: FTFA:


Private equity exists to make profits. None of that is inherently evil.

Bullshiat.


why? are they supposed to make a loss?

that would be good?
 
2012-05-31 02:03:12 PM
One can still like the game while disliking zero-sum and minus-sum branches.
 
2012-05-31 02:03:35 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: When I feed the hungry, they call me a saint. When I ask why people are hungry, they call me a Communist. - Dom Helder Camara


+1
 
2012-05-31 02:07:07 PM
There is no debate between Communism/Capitalism. We're not ants. Trying to pretend that we are is ridiculous.
 
2012-05-31 02:08:26 PM

abb3w: One can still like the game while disliking zero-sum and minus-sum branches.


And occasionally dim sum. I've had some crap to be sure.
 
2012-05-31 02:12:30 PM
Capitalism is not a religion and should not be treated like one.

/and frankly america in general should be doing a lot of things differently if we really wanted to be a capitalist nation.

In a true capitalist country the consumer should be king and allowing them to make informed decisions should be paramount.

lying to consumers should be a extremely serious crime.

The choice of a informed consumer should be respected.

governement regulation should be focused on allowing consumers to see the true cost of each choice. not subsidizing one industry or activity at the expense of others.

/the sad fact is the modern world is so complex that it is extremely difficult to live as a true capitalist, As an example try negotiating with your doctor over medical expenses and paying out of pocket. I htink there is a great need to simplfy things so that we can get back to where consumers can make informed decisions.

/If I you want to be a political candidate, run on simplifying things, it works good for Apple and might get you elected.
 
2012-05-31 02:13:53 PM
Private equity is the house flipping of the business world.

And we've seen what rampant house flipping did to the economy.

Evil Twin Skippy: Bonkthat_Again: We should come up with an optional "greed" law.
You can only make a 20% profit.

If you do not want to participate or abide by it, you will get zero tax breaks, and you will be allowed to fail unconditionally.

On second thought, let's just do the latter.

Actually a Value Added Tax would be a much better proposition. Buy something for $0.01 and sell it for $100? Fine. Just write a check for $40 of it to "the Department of the Treasury", Washington, DC.


As some who makes a living with reselling things in the 1000%+ range I'm perfectly happy with the way things are. 20% profit in my business wouldn't pay for wear and tear to my shoes.
 
2012-05-31 02:21:23 PM

cman: Then again the author is an idiot for implying that attacks on capitalism are wrong.


Why does everything have to be an "attack"? Can't we critique something but still not want to destroy it?
 
2012-05-31 02:28:33 PM
Dear Sirs.

I am a registered Libertarian. I believe in capitalism quite strongly.

Also, capitalism isn't perfect. There are a number of things that are broken in capitalism that cannot be fixed with more capitalism. We should have a discussion about that. We should also have discussions about how other forms of economies, like communism, socialism, command economies, managed capitalism, corporatism, anarchism, mercantilism and whatever else we can dream up are better because they fix those things. We should have discussions about how elements of other economic systems are better than the best elements of capitalism. As fun as it would be to have these debates be straw man arguments where I get to badger my opponents into submission, these should be legitimate debates where all people come to the table equally and present their best arguments.

I still think capitalism will win in the market of ideas, but let's have the debate, for fark's sake.
 
2012-05-31 02:30:58 PM

pdee: Weaver95: coco ebert:
I think fundamentally, right-wingers and liberals answer the question "What is society for?" in completely different ways, and that's why I'm not sure there will ever be agreement.

we're not even permitted to have the discussion, let alone come to any sort of agreement about anything! look at the sheer amount of bile spewing venom that investment bankers and GOP shills have puked out over the Bain capital ads. at no point did the valiant Republican defenders even bother to discuss what Bain capital did, they just went right for the 'OMG SOCALISMS'! and that was it - game over.

Maybe not in the echo chamber in which you live.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230336050457741057365184 5 802.html


But how much money did Bain make off of GS Technologies' bankruptcy?
 
2012-05-31 02:32:46 PM
Well, his whole thing is "I've been a business leader, therefore I have executive experience and I'm qualified to be the POTUS." Everyone who's endorsed him has brought up the "he's a business leader" talking point. I'd say it's fair to look at what he actually did as a "business leader."
 
2012-05-31 02:35:58 PM
Capitalism seems to handle the "humans are lazy, selfish, greedy assholes" conundrum better than the other ideologies, but none of the others has really been fully implemented, so that may not be the case.
 
2012-05-31 02:39:53 PM

AcneVulgaris: Capitalism seems to handle the "humans are lazy, selfish, greedy assholes" conundrum better than the other ideologies, but none of the others has really been fully implemented, so that may not be the case.


At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge," said the gentleman, taking up a pen, "it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and Destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir."

"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge.

"Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

"And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"

"They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not."

"The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge.

"Both very busy, sir."

"Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to hear it."

"Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude," returned the gentleman, "a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?"

"Nothing!" Scrooge replied.

"You wish to be anonymous?"

"I wish to be left alone," said Scrooge. "Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned -- they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there."
 
2012-05-31 02:58:51 PM

abb3w: One can still like the game while disliking zero-sum and minus-sum branches.


This.
 
2012-05-31 03:12:59 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Well, his whole thing is "I've been a business leader, therefore I have executive experience and I'm qualified to be the POTUS." Everyone who's endorsed him has brought up the "he's a business leader" talking point. I'd say it's fair to look at what he actually did as a "business leader."


That, and someone suggested that the Constitution be amended so that the President is required to have 'business' experience. Save us.
 
2012-05-31 03:24:06 PM

Alphax: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Well, his whole thing is "I've been a business leader, therefore I have executive experience and I'm qualified to be the POTUS." Everyone who's endorsed him has brought up the "he's a business leader" talking point. I'd say it's fair to look at what he actually did as a "business leader."

That, and someone suggested that the Constitution be amended so that the President is required to have 'business' experience. Save us.


who suggested that?
 
2012-05-31 03:26:28 PM

skullkrusher: Alphax: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Well, his whole thing is "I've been a business leader, therefore I have executive experience and I'm qualified to be the POTUS." Everyone who's endorsed him has brought up the "he's a business leader" talking point. I'd say it's fair to look at what he actually did as a "business leader."

That, and someone suggested that the Constitution be amended so that the President is required to have 'business' experience. Save us.

who suggested that?


The guy Romney made up so he could make a subtle birther dig
 
2012-05-31 03:27:56 PM

skullkrusher: Alphax: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Well, his whole thing is "I've been a business leader, therefore I have executive experience and I'm qualified to be the POTUS." Everyone who's endorsed him has brought up the "he's a business leader" talking point. I'd say it's fair to look at what he actually did as a "business leader."

That, and someone suggested that the Constitution be amended so that the President is required to have 'business' experience. Save us.

who suggested that?


I couldn't believe someone would suggest that, either, so I Googled it. That "someone" is actually Mitt Romney.
 
2012-05-31 03:30:20 PM

CPennypacker: skullkrusher: Alphax: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Well, his whole thing is "I've been a business leader, therefore I have executive experience and I'm qualified to be the POTUS." Everyone who's endorsed him has brought up the "he's a business leader" talking point. I'd say it's fair to look at what he actually did as a "business leader."

That, and someone suggested that the Constitution be amended so that the President is required to have 'business' experience. Save us.

who suggested that?

The guy Romney made up so he could make a subtle birther dig


I guess you could say that Mitt Romney made himself up.
 
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