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(Yahoo)   The tragic story of a young man crushed by student loan debt. Of course, perhaps he shouldn't have taken out $60K at a 19% interest rate to attend the California Culinary Academy, then refused to pay them back   (finance.yahoo.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, California Culinary Academy, interest rates, Sallie Mae, culinary school, engineering degree, loan debt, student loans, room and board  
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11506 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 May 2012 at 5:28 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-31 10:34:29 AM  

KiplingKat872: tenpoundsofcheese: Define exactly what you mean by a "right".
Who guarantees that "right"?
When a person does not get that "right", what recourse do they have? How is it "fixed". Who fixes it?

These are all question that were answered in your high school civics course. Next time, try not to sleep through it.


In other words, you have no answer, got it.
My civics class never covered having a job is a "right". Yours did?

Okay, so who do I sue if I don't have a job? How does that work?
 
2012-05-31 10:34:51 AM  
sounds like his dad is a dick.
 
2012-05-31 10:35:04 AM  
The people keep claiming that "it's always been this way, welcome to the real world, F-U snowflake." You all are full of shiat. Since we were in school, tuition costs have gone up, jobs have gone down, and wages have stagnated. These kids are caught in the transition between a system that was working for when people now 40 went through it, and the system that is no longer working in the current economic climate now. We have to figure you how to fix it, or just watch the middle class disappear as fewer and fewer people can afford to go to college and to get jobs that barely support them.

Like Mexico and other sunny vacation spots.
 
2012-05-31 10:35:29 AM  

natas6.0: Dropped my scholarship, joined the army. (hated berkely, loved the drugs)
Realized there wasn't much of a market for grunts, changed my military job.
Took schools that made me marketable
Got blowed up, got out
Got a job to pay the bills, then found a career.
The VA gives me money every month and free college for me, if I get a wife, and any kids.

I don't understand how people rack up bills ant think they'll never have to pay it back,
then cry UNFAIR

Congressman Rangel suggested reinstating a draft a few years back...
Do you think it would help teach some responsibility?


If you didn't have the military to pay some of your bills for you, and your school for you, would you still go to college? Would you be in a better shape or a worse shape?
 
2012-05-31 10:36:21 AM  

grimlock1972: Firstly 19% interest or higher on any loan is insane, it should be capped at a maximum of 7 %, credit cards included. Secondly student loan debt like any other should dischargeable in bankruptcy. College and university need to trim their costs starting with administration salaries to keep tuition costs in line.


See, I agree with this. Basically the fed should pass a law that if a private lender wants student loans to be undischargable by bankruptcy, there has to be a cap on the interest rate they're allowed to charge - say 6-7%.

That way, predatory lenders can offer people 19% interest, but at the risk of the borrower going bankrupt. There's really no reason they should have it both ways.
 
2012-05-31 10:36:39 AM  

StrangeQ: /the desert is not a sandbox. It's more like a giant basin full of talcum powder.


My point is you can serve your country without being a grunt. I choose to be a combat engineer because you got more from the GI Bill in combat arms. I'm glad I did but a part of me wishes I went into the Air Force or Navy and got a technical job.

Not everyone in the military is in combat
 
2012-05-31 10:37:41 AM  

Joe Blowme: KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84: A good education and job aren't rights.

So being able to survive in a society is not a right? Being able to eat, put a roof over your head, that is not a right in America? It's not a basic human right?

Wow.

Why don't all of you selfish, cold-hearted boot-strappy conservatives move to an underdeveloped nation that actually, really, works on those principles. I hear that Somalia is lovely this time of year.

Why dont you go downtown and bring home some homeless people to feed and clothe, pratice what you preach brother. Or are you one of thoses selfish, cold-hearted boot-strappy conservatives. Oh, and dont forget to send them to school and get them a job.


I would be *happy* to pay more taxes to fund free public universities rather than a DoD that just loses 2.3 trillion dollars off their books.

And I do donate to local food banks, the SA, and DVA so why don't you just STFU.
 
2012-05-31 10:39:50 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: that "study" was discredited long ago.


bootstrap it up.

kiwimoogle84: Yup. I was just raised that there's no handouts. Nothing wrong with that.


People are often unaware of how many government handouts they receive. Probably the most poignant, considering the Euro Crisis, is this one on a collective level

i.imgur.com

This is a nice quote
"You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory - and hire someone to protect against this - because of the work the rest of us did.
"Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless - keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

Of course, were talking about the eroding social contract on the education system. its just an issue in a wider point.
 
2012-05-31 10:40:06 AM  

KiplingKat872: The people keep claiming that "it's always been this way, welcome to the real world, F-U snowflake." You all are full of shiat. Since we were in school, tuition costs have gone up, jobs have gone down, and wages have stagnated. These kids are caught in the transition between a system that was working for when people now 40 went through it, and the system that is no longer working in the current economic climate now. We have to figure you how to fix it, or just watch the middle class disappear as fewer and fewer people can afford to go to college and to get jobs that barely support them.

Like Mexico and other sunny vacation spots.


And I truly do feel for them. But if they don't have the initiative to work through college in order to take less loans out, or if they major in something with no practical application, they made dumb decisions. It's true the tuitions are going up and so are unemployment rates- but start as an admin assistant in a company and work your way up to a position that offers tuition reimbursement. Work during the day and take community classes at night and pay them off each semester. Get roommates and sell your car.

I'm not saying that's how everyone should do it, but especially this day and age, research stuff before you sign things. Only way to survive.
 
2012-05-31 10:42:34 AM  

KiplingKat872:
The problem is you are missing that "little Johnny" has options if he is told at the age of 15, which is when the split is, if he is not doing well enough to go to University.

Germany and Austria it's ten years old. Benelux 12 years old. France and UK it's around 15. My point remains the same. If fully government funded access to University becomes a scarce resource with much more limited capacity, you'd see lawsuits like crazy. Americans are simply too accustomed to having the option to go to college and won't put up with being told they can't. Just sayin'.

 
2012-05-31 10:42:44 AM  

kiwimoogle84: But high schoolers also should get scholarships or have clearly defined goals and understand what they are undertaking.


You do know that scholarships are a very limited resource, right? And that most mobile plans (which the vast majority of people these days have mobiles *rather* than landlines) give out free smart phones with a contract, right? And they expected it to be hard, they did not expect to not be able to even get a foothold while creditors breathed down their necks.

Yes, there are outliers like the guy in this article, but that is not the majority. Stop blaming the kids. The system is the problem and it needs to be fixed.
 
2012-05-31 10:43:10 AM  

GoldDude: Sounds like his Dad is a pretty smart guy. Offered to co-sign for a loan if it was for a useful degree (engineering) with reasonable job prospects after graduation. But sonny-boy didn't have the ability or drive to work hard for a difficult degree. He'd have been a lot better off getting a McJob at a fast-food restaurant. At least maybe his story might, just MIGHT, convince somebody else to think twice about enrolling in programs to bet these fly-by-night, as-seen-on-TV "degrees".


Not everyone has an engineer's mind, and NO DEGREE is a guarantee of job prospects. Shiat changes, climates change.

If the Dad wanted to help his son, he would have helped his son figure out what his son wanted to do, and then co-signed on a reasonable loan so that the son could get his degree in something he actually loved doing. Forcing your kid to do what you want your kid to do with the rest of his or her life, or else, is not the path to harmonious family relationships. And, again, some people don't have the mind for engineering. If you're not cut out for engineering plus you're being forced into it at the same time, you will rebel.

As for fly by night degree mills, these for-profit schools, as bad as they are, are often many people's last resorts because the usual traditional schools will not accept them. So, you've got folks who are being bombarded with 'you have to have a degree, you have to have a degree, you have to have a degree'........................... but they don't have the background that students with safety nets and families who have been through the college mill a couple generations or three, have behind them. And they don't have the special skills that allow them to get oodles of scholarship money and grants. But they're still told 'you have to get a degree, you have to get a degree, you have to get a degree'.

Well, how are they going to get that degree?

The fault is not the kids.

The fault is on a two-faced system.
 
2012-05-31 10:43:20 AM  

KiplingKat872: Joe Blowme: KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84: A good education and job aren't rights.

So being able to survive in a society is not a right? Being able to eat, put a roof over your head, that is not a right in America? It's not a basic human right?

Wow.

Why don't all of you selfish, cold-hearted boot-strappy conservatives move to an underdeveloped nation that actually, really, works on those principles. I hear that Somalia is lovely this time of year.

Why dont you go downtown and bring home some homeless people to feed and clothe, pratice what you preach brother. Or are you one of thoses selfish, cold-hearted boot-strappy conservatives. Oh, and dont forget to send them to school and get them a job.

I would be *happy* to pay more taxes to fund free public universities rather than a DoD that just loses 2.3 trillion dollars off their books.

And I do donate to local food banks, the SA, and DVA so why don't you just STFU.


See now I can absolutely get behind that point. It costs the gov 300K a year (read that in a time magazine article a couple years ago) to outfit and pay a soldier for a one year deployment. Ouch.

But I can't afford any more taxes taken out of my checks. Kids need to go to community college first or something similar.

"you just blew 90 thousand dollars on an education I got for $1.95 in late charges at the Harvard library."

Learn a trade, work two jobs, don't just expect it to be handed to you. That's all.
 
2012-05-31 10:46:23 AM  

kiwimoogle84: But if they don't have the initiative to work through college in order to take less loans out, or if they major in something with no practical application, they made dumb decisions.


If you think a part time job can support a student through college you are sadly out of touch.

Tuitions are going up, jobs are going down, AND WAGES ARE STAGNATING.

Link
 
2012-05-31 10:46:31 AM  

KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84: But high schoolers also should get scholarships or have clearly defined goals and understand what they are undertaking.

You do know that scholarships are a very limited resource, right? And that most mobile plans (which the vast majority of people these days have mobiles *rather* than landlines) give out free smart phones with a contract, right? And they expected it to be hard, they did not expect to not be able to even get a foothold while creditors breathed down their necks.

Yes, there are outliers like the guy in this article, but that is not the majority. Stop blaming the kids. The system is the problem and it needs to be fixed.


Actually I'm only partially blaming the kids. Yeah the system is flawed, and parents should educate their kids on what the real world is like rather than handing out participation trophies. Kids these days also don't know the value of hard work. They'd rather have Facebook access at work than make a decent living working outside somewhere with no cell service. That's what thirty years of coddling kids does. If they don't know how to slap a band aid on an injury and try again, they'll never get anywhere and THAT is bad parenting.
 
2012-05-31 10:46:48 AM  

KiplingKat872: The people keep claiming that "it's always been this way, welcome to the real world, F-U snowflake." You all are full of shiat. Since we were in school, tuition costs have gone up, jobs have gone down, and wages have stagnated. These kids are caught in the transition between a system that was working for when people now 40 went through it, and the system that is no longer working in the current economic climate now. We have to figure you how to fix it, or just watch the middle class disappear as fewer and fewer people can afford to go to college and to get jobs that barely support them.

Like Mexico and other sunny vacation spots.


Sounds like you should be occupying higher education.
 
2012-05-31 10:48:03 AM  

KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84: But if they don't have the initiative to work through college in order to take less loans out, or if they major in something with no practical application, they made dumb decisions.

If you think a part time job can support a student through college you are sadly out of touch.

Tuitions are going up, jobs are going down, AND WAGES ARE STAGNATING.

Link


Didn't say support. Said it would HELP. Taking in $800 a month working part time adds up to 9600 a year they don't have to take out in loans. That's nearly $40K over four years. HUGE.
 
2012-05-31 10:52:01 AM  

kiwimoogle84: Yup. I was just raised that there's no handouts. Nothing wrong with that.


You're right. I am not arguing that you didn't receive handouts. I am just throwing shiat against a wall and calling it art. And I'll that all day till I pass out.

Insanity, drugs and alcohol, they're good for everyone. And dammit, I agree with you. CTRL+f certifies this.

/would you just
//SLASH SLASH that!
///yes, I meant that all day.
////if you don't understand this, just read my previous posts. Pertinent reading: read ze slashies.
//idiots with computer skeelz do no equate to wise men

TROLL!
 
2012-05-31 10:52:13 AM  
FTFA: "The culinary academy commercials were on the Food Network every 15 minutes," he said, and only required 12 months of study with a three month externship.

Well there's your problem right there.

/you don't need to be a rocket scientist but there I am.
//$10Kdebt in 4 years. I'm lucky like that.
 
2012-05-31 10:54:39 AM  

kiwimoogle84: KiplingKat872: Joe Blowme: KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84: A good education and job aren't rights.

So being able to survive in a society is not a right? Being able to eat, put a roof over your head, that is not a right in America? It's not a basic human right?

Wow.

Why don't all of you selfish, cold-hearted boot-strappy conservatives move to an underdeveloped nation that actually, really, works on those principles. I hear that Somalia is lovely this time of year.

Why dont you go downtown and bring home some homeless people to feed and clothe, pratice what you preach brother. Or are you one of thoses selfish, cold-hearted boot-strappy conservatives. Oh, and dont forget to send them to school and get them a job.

I would be *happy* to pay more taxes to fund free public universities rather than a DoD that just loses 2.3 trillion dollars off their books.

And I do donate to local food banks, the SA, and DVA so why don't you just STFU.

See now I can absolutely get behind that point. It costs the gov 300K a year (read that in a time magazine article a couple years ago) to outfit and pay a soldier for a one year deployment. Ouch.

But I can't afford any more taxes taken out of my checks. Kids need to go to community college first or something similar.

"you just blew 90 thousand dollars on an education I got for $1.95 in late charges at the Harvard library."

Learn a trade, work two jobs, don't just expect it to be handed to you. That's all.


Yeah, and if you remember that come back line to that.

These kids are learning all that now. I work at a University in a chemistry department, so I have the "I need to get into this class because I can't afford another semester in school" and "I can't take that lab because it conflicts with my job" discussions every day during peak registration times.

They are working. They are busting their asses.

So stop blaming them for getting caught in a predatory economic system that feeds on them. Don't tell them to suck it up as tuition goes up and the student debt spirals out of control because these kids can barely find jobs to support themselves.

Because you know who is going to have to pay for that bubble when it bursts?

You and me.

Just like we did when the housing bubble went.

This time the public is aware of it and can see it, but hey let just lecture the kids on boot-strappism and ignroe the rest.
 
2012-05-31 10:55:39 AM  

zweieye: kiwimoogle84: Yup. I was just raised that there's no handouts. Nothing wrong with that.

You're right. I am not arguing that you didn't receive handouts. I am just throwing shiat against a wall and calling it art. And I'll that all day till I pass out.

Insanity, drugs and alcohol, they're good for everyone. And dammit, I agree with you. CTRL+f certifies this.

/would you just
//SLASH SLASH that!
///yes, I meant that all day.
////if you don't understand this, just read my previous posts. Pertinent reading: read ze slashies.
//idiots with computer skeelz do no equate to wise men

TROLL!


I laughed at this. Nice job, man. :)
 
2012-05-31 10:56:49 AM  

kiwimoogle84:
Actually I'm only partially blaming the kids. Yeah the system is flawed, and parents should educate their kids on what the real world is like rather than handing out participation trophies. Kids these days also don't know the value of hard work. They'd rather have Facebook access at work than make a decent living working outside somewhere with no cell service. That's what thirty years of coddling kids does. If they don't know how to slap a band aid on an injury and try again, they'll never get anywhere and THAT is bad parenting.


So you would rather hand out blame to individuals than fix the system.

Got it.
 
2012-05-31 10:59:57 AM  

Pert: pla: Would you like some fries with your Nietzsche?

Philosophy degree.

Recruited into IT (with no relevant experience) by big corporation and trained.
Subsequently recruited by law firm who have sponsored my retraining as a lawyer.

/pronounced Nee-cher, for what it's worth. Where the hell you Americans got "Nee-chee" from is beyond me.
//have no idea how you pronounce it, basing it entirely on Blazing Saddles and a couple of other films where he's mentioned


Actually, it's pronounced Neet-chuh if spoken correctly by German grammaar rules. It's a German name right?
 
2012-05-31 10:59:58 AM  

KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84: KiplingKat872: Joe Blowme: KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84: A good education and job aren't rights.

So being able to survive in a society is not a right? Being able to eat, put a roof over your head, that is not a right in America? It's not a basic human right?

Wow.

Why don't all of you selfish, cold-hearted boot-strappy conservatives move to an underdeveloped nation that actually, really, works on those principles. I hear that Somalia is lovely this time of year.

Why dont you go downtown and bring home some homeless people to feed and clothe, pratice what you preach brother. Or are you one of thoses selfish, cold-hearted boot-strappy conservatives. Oh, and dont forget to send them to school and get them a job.

I would be *happy* to pay more taxes to fund free public universities rather than a DoD that just loses 2.3 trillion dollars off their books.

And I do donate to local food banks, the SA, and DVA so why don't you just STFU.

See now I can absolutely get behind that point. It costs the gov 300K a year (read that in a time magazine article a couple years ago) to outfit and pay a soldier for a one year deployment. Ouch.

But I can't afford any more taxes taken out of my checks. Kids need to go to community college first or something similar.

"you just blew 90 thousand dollars on an education I got for $1.95 in late charges at the Harvard library."

Learn a trade, work two jobs, don't just expect it to be handed to you. That's all.

Yeah, and if you remember that come back line to that.

These kids are learning all that now. I work at a University in a chemistry department, so I have the "I need to get into this class because I can't afford another semester in school" and "I can't take that lab because it conflicts with my job" discussions every day during peak registration times.

They are working. They are busting their asses.

So stop blaming them for getting caught in a predatory economic system that feeds on them. Don't tell them to suck it ...


I do agree with you. Most kids are working hard- and good for them. But you don't see them making the news, so yeah- they aren't getting recognition for doing what they're supposed to do. But I bet they're much better off in the long run than the kids who take out loans to major in art history and party when they could be working part time. Those kids exist too.

Yes the system is broken. But you ignored my bits about saving $40K over four years and my friend whose student loans suck up 2/3rds of his income. Don't play selective hearing, please. I'm agreeing with you on many points.
 
2012-05-31 11:00:33 AM  
Personal responsibility, how does it work?
 
2012-05-31 11:01:13 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: StrangeQ: /the desert is not a sandbox. It's more like a giant basin full of talcum powder.

My point is you can serve your country without being a grunt. I choose to be a combat engineer because you got more from the GI Bill in combat arms. I'm glad I did but a part of me wishes I went into the Air Force or Navy and got a technical job.

Not everyone in the military is in combat


Yeah I was just being snarky; I totally agree. Go join the navy and odds are you will never see anything close to combat. (The Cole was a very rare occurance, not the norm, though yes, you are assuming SOME amount of risk by joining the service) Additionally, all service brances have full tuition assistance while you're in, so if you worked hard enough at it you could be halfway through your degree by the time you get out.
 
2012-05-31 11:01:46 AM  
Hard to feel sorry for stupid kids making stupid decisions.

Before y'all get all up-in-arms about kids being taken advantage of by predatory lenders, let me relate a CSB:

My girlfriend has 2 daughters from a previous marriage. When they were ready to go off to college, we sat them down and went over their options (both had good enough grades to qualify for a state program which allowed them to attend community college for free for 2 years), and showed them the math for college loans, explaining exactly how much they'd end up paying in the long run.

Unfortunately, their idiot father (typical American these days: 2 mortgages+home equity load+shiatload of credit card debt) went the other route, playing up the "college experience" and telling them that they could go wherever they want. Guess who they listened to?

Yup. Both started out at out-of-state private colleges ("this one has a better sports program" and "Ooh, the campus is so pretty") and took out massive loans. Both ended up realizing that we were right, and transferred to cheaper in-state schools, but the financial damage is already done.

Moral of the story: You can provide kids will all of the relevant info, and they'll make poor decisions.
 
2012-05-31 11:01:58 AM  

KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84:
Actually I'm only partially blaming the kids. Yeah the system is flawed, and parents should educate their kids on what the real world is like rather than handing out participation trophies. Kids these days also don't know the value of hard work. They'd rather have Facebook access at work than make a decent living working outside somewhere with no cell service. That's what thirty years of coddling kids does. If they don't know how to slap a band aid on an injury and try again, they'll never get anywhere and THAT is bad parenting.

So you would rather hand out blame to individuals than fix the system.

Got it.


Can we not do both at the same time?

Also way to ignore my very valid points. Again. About this generation of kids who would rather have facebook access at work than health insurance. There was a fark article about it. That's a really stupid decision right there.
 
2012-05-31 11:05:38 AM  

Joe Blowme: Personal responsibility, how does it work?


This. OH so this.

Cheeky Monkey, I agree with you there. My own CSB-

Two cousins, same family. One worked construction for two years right out of high school. Saved every penny and used it to go get a bachelors in architecture. Now he makes 90K a year or something ridiculous.

His brother went straight to a university against his mom's advice. Drank, partied, got a girl pregnant and dropped out- not having worked a day in his life. Works fast food. Still has two years of college debt to pay for.
 
2012-05-31 11:05:39 AM  

I laughed at this. Nice job, man. :)


All the funny things I've done equate to others laughing. Is that irony or just an observation of serendipity?

I dunno. I am just going to go to sleep. I am glad I could give you a giggle. =)
 
2012-05-31 11:06:23 AM  
(I'm posting this under my wife's name as I don't have one myself. We share everything else, why not screen names?)

I can identify with the guy in this article. I basically got screwed by a worthless school which, by the way, was worse than the one he went to. It was a complicated story and f***ed up time in my life but I learned my lesson and I'm not really going to blame anyone else.

The truth is that college is basically worthless for the majority of students that attend it. I'd put money on the fact that only a small percentage of college students actually study something useful at a school that is worth going to. I think a lot of people in this thread are forgetting what it was like to be a high school senior.

College is some magical dream land that they start selling you on by sophomore year. All of your friends are going, they're picking out what towns or cities they're going to be living in. They're going to Ikea to have their parents buy them dorm furniture. Everyone is just so proud of them. They're confident that when they get out they'll be making $xxx,xxx a year and will be so successful. It doesn't matter what they plan on studying, they just believe what they're told.

High schools are college mills these days. Their only concern is getting kids into fancy colleges so they can justify their budgets for the next year. They're basically feeding kids to sharks without any concern.

I couldn't get a job for a long time and wondered if it was my lack of a degree. During one particular dead end job I had the opportunity to watch the employment process from the inside. I watched an idiot with a stack of resumes flip through them and throw most of them in the garbage. The reasons? Stupid name, don't like the picture, rival school, looks shady, misspelled something etc etc. College doesn't matter anymore, not unless you either went to a big name school or have a truly advanced degree. You'd have better luck clipping a $20 to your resume.

Now, on the other side of things, I eventually gave up and started my own business. Best idea I ever had. The problem is that I was going to expand and needed to hire some people. I offered double what I started at, which was comparable to what the market pays, and it was much harder than I thought to hire someone. I even tried to hire friends who are on public assistance and they couldn't be bothered to even express a serious interest. I tried to hire people who told me I wasn't paying enough, they came back a month later saying they can't find work, it was too late then.

What's my point? The entire system is f***ed to hell. Why? 90% of people these days are utter morons and many of them happen to be running things.

So much for "education".

I dropped out of high school and I'm smarter, better read and more informed than most people I meet. College is a scam these days, except for the small percentage of people who are using it correctly. If you really want to get ahead in a capitalist society then you need to work for yourself, stop expecting to be handed a job, benefits, house etc.

(alright, I'm done. Time for more coffee)
 
2012-05-31 11:08:19 AM  

kiwimoogle84: Can we not do both at the same time?

Also way to ignore my very valid points. Again. About this generation of kids who would rather have facebook access at work than health insurance. There was a fark article about it. That's a really stupid decision right there.


All you are interested in is blaming the kids. Have fun with your self righteousness as you shell out the taxes to pay for a hundreds of millions of dollars in defaulted education loans and watch the middle class disappear all that faster as having money becomes the more important criteria for a college education than academic performance.
 
2012-05-31 11:08:58 AM  

KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84: But if they don't have the initiative to work through college in order to take less loans out, or if they major in something with no practical application, they made dumb decisions.

If you think a part time job can support a student through college you are sadly out of touch.

Tuitions are going up, jobs are going down, AND WAGES ARE STAGNATING.

Link


You are able to go to school on a part time basis, or do two years at a community college, to keep annual costs down. Go at a pace that suits you.
 
2012-05-31 11:09:52 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: If the Dad wanted to help his son, he would have helped his son figure out what his son wanted to do, and then co-signed on a reasonable loan so that the son could get his degree in something he actually loved doing.


Most things that pay are not neccessarily things you're going to love. If it was easy to love, they wouldn't need to pay you so much to do it. In addition, it seems to me that 9 times out of 10, people who want to "do what they love" actually mean that they don't "want to learn about things that they aren't already interested in". I'm all in favor of this douche becoming a great chef if he wants, but it seems obvious that he was looking for a shortcut. ("A twelve month program making pastries, instead of four years of engineering school? Wow! I'll pay anything to get out of doing the hard stuff!")

I'm a software engineer. I love my career. I wouldn't say I especially love doing the work the way some hardcore people in my industry do, but it is interesting and challenging, it pays well, and I've learned to be pretty good at it. Therefore, it enables me to do all of the things I actually love doing, which are the things that actually matter to me in my life and would not be available to me if I built a career around what I love doing. I've given something to society that it wants, and in exchange, it's given me back nearly everything I've ever wanted, and some things I never thought I'd be able to have growing up the way I did. It's a good swap, win-win.

It's just my opinion, but if you're finding your identity through and letting your personality revolve around your work, giving up your soul to it, you're doing life wrong. It's a distinctly American mistake, as far as I can tell. Work finances the things that actually make you who you are. Work is about neccessity. Tribal people don't hunt and fish because they love it. Agrarian societies don't farm because farming is just so awesome. They do it because, if they don't, they and their families will not survive to enjoy being alive. That's what we're all doing.

/ I am a better writer than this. I realize it has no flow. I'm moving today, though, and it's a little chaotic around here.
 
2012-05-31 11:10:40 AM  

FiendishDucks: (I'm posting this under my wife's name as I don't have one myself. We share everything else, why not screen names?)

I can identify with the guy in this article. I basically got screwed by a worthless school which, by the way, was worse than the one he went to. It was a complicated story and f***ed up time in my life but I learned my lesson and I'm not really going to blame anyone else.

The truth is that college is basically worthless for the majority of students that attend it. I'd put money on the fact that only a small percentage of college students actually study something useful at a school that is worth going to. I think a lot of people in this thread are forgetting what it was like to be a high school senior.

College is some magical dream land that they start selling you on by sophomore year. All of your friends are going, they're picking out what towns or cities they're going to be living in. They're going to Ikea to have their parents buy them dorm furniture. Everyone is just so proud of them. They're confident that when they get out they'll be making $xxx,xxx a year and will be so successful. It doesn't matter what they plan on studying, they just believe what they're told.

High schools are college mills these days. Their only concern is getting kids into fancy colleges so they can justify their budgets for the next year. They're basically feeding kids to sharks without any concern.

I couldn't get a job for a long time and wondered if it was my lack of a degree. During one particular dead end job I had the opportunity to watch the employment process from the inside. I watched an idiot with a stack of resumes flip through them and throw most of them in the garbage. The reasons? Stupid name, don't like the picture, rival school, looks shady, misspelled something etc etc. College doesn't matter anymore, not unless you either went to a big name school or have a truly advanced degree. You'd have better luck clipping a $20 to your resume.

...


FAVORITED.

Go wife for having a fark account. High five.

My man is similar. He dropped out of high school. Slaved grunt work for a while, eventually pulled himself through college, slaved at an IT place for a while, learned a lot, worked hard, started his own business. He makes something like 60K a year working 25 hours a week. He does very specialized work and would be hard to replace. Some days he's at it for twelve hours and forgets to eat and all that. But he works hard. That's what people forget. You need to get callouses on your hands and work up a sweat and actually have to TRY.
 
2012-05-31 11:12:59 AM  

derpdeederp: KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84: But if they don't have the initiative to work through college in order to take less loans out, or if they major in something with no practical application, they made dumb decisions.

If you think a part time job can support a student through college you are sadly out of touch.

Tuitions are going up, jobs are going down, AND WAGES ARE STAGNATING.

Link

You are able to go to school on a part time basis, or do two years at a community college, to keep annual costs down. Go at a pace that suits you.


Yes, that is what I did for my AA, I still walked out of my BA with loans and that was years ago.

The system is broken. Blaming the kids is not going to fix it.
 
2012-05-31 11:13:55 AM  

KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84: Can we not do both at the same time?

Also way to ignore my very valid points. Again. About this generation of kids who would rather have facebook access at work than health insurance. There was a fark article about it. That's a really stupid decision right there.

All you are interested in is blaming the kids. Have fun with your self righteousness as you shell out the taxes to pay for a hundreds of millions of dollars in defaulted education loans and watch the middle class disappear all that faster as having money becomes the more important criteria for a college education than academic performance.


Not true. Did I not say the parents need to educate their kids? Did I not say financial counselors at colleges need to inform kids of what will happen? Did I NOT SAY THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN?

Geez. Please pay attention to what I am telling you. I also have not once insulted you and I am making valid points you are simply ignoring because we need to give people things for FREE! No, people have to earn them. You mention academic performance. I think that college should indeed be less expensive for those who did their homework and busted ass getting a 3.5 or better. If you try, you should be rewarded.
 
2012-05-31 11:16:42 AM  

Ebbelwoi: Pert:
/pronounced Nee-cher, for what it's worth. Where the hell you Americans got "Nee-chee" from is beyond me.
//have no idea how you pronounce it, basing it entirely on Blazing Saddles and a couple of other films where he's mentioned

No it's not, ding dong. It's pronounced Nee-cheh because that's how it's pronounced in the original German. There's no "R" in Nietsche.


The English are fond of informally appending "r"s to words that end in vowel sounds.
 
2012-05-31 11:18:46 AM  

Lorelle: He would have been better off obtaining a degree from the prestigious University of Phoenix.


A friend of mine got a bs business degree from Phoenix, cost her something bananas---quadruple what the local state college would have cost. They just made is so easy for her to take out the outrageous loans to fund her worthless degree.
 
2012-05-31 11:20:27 AM  

SpaceyCat: For my first bachelor's degree I went to a state school, with scholarships and everything. I graduated in 1995. My second degree I finished in 2004. For the same amount of schooling, I paid THREE TIMES the price for a 4 year degree as I did the first time around. Thankfully I was able to qualify for Federal loans, so I'm not getting ass raped in interest for them, but it is still exorbitant. And I still have another 5-6 years until it's paid off. WTF?! Why is it that universities and colleges are charging more for LESS? Inflation only counts for some of that.

Truth in lending practices need to be made into law again so people don't get destroyed by shifty loan sellers.


I actually work for a state college, so I'm getting a kick....
 
2012-05-31 11:21:46 AM  

kiwimoogle84: Not true. Did I not say the parents need to educate their kids? Did I not say financial counselors at colleges need to inform kids of what will happen? Did I NOT SAY THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN?


But you KEEP blaming the kids! You keep assuming it is *their* responsibility to deal with a broken, predatory system rather than fixing it. "It's broken, so deal with it kids." Instead of suggesting that keeping tuition costs be kept down, loan interest rates be kept down, strictly regulating lenders and forcing them to work with income based payment plans, etc.

I would love for public universities to be free, by I know in "ZOMG SOSHULISM!!!" paranoiac America that is not possible so I will settle for the above, but too many people are way too interested in blaming the victim rather than working to fix the system. And we saw how well that worked for everyone in the housing crisis. Now we have a chance to do something before it becomes horrendously bad, but most people would rather feel self-righteous and rub the next generation's nose in it rather than heading it off.
 
2012-05-31 11:24:46 AM  

kiwimoogle84: Not true. Did I not say the parents need to educate their kids? Did I not say financial counselors at colleges need to inform kids of what will happen? Did I NOT SAY THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN?


And saying the parents and colleges financial aid offices have to inform them is not solving the real problems, that is just making a map of a broken system for the kid to navigate.

The problem it tuition costs are too high of 4-year degrees that are devalued on the job market, but far better than nothing, and the lenders take advantage of that situation.
 
2012-05-31 11:26:54 AM  
I do not have a college degree, though I did go to a number of community colleges and spent 3 years at a big 4-year university. I do have a good job, and I'm financially stable.

I didn't have any student loan debt because I didn't take any loans. I worked 2 or 3 jobs while going to college, and made the choice to starve rather than miss payments. It was miserable, and I don't wish it on anyone. If I have kids, I'm going to make sure they don't go through that if they choose to go to college. In the end, I quit to take a high paying job rather than suffer another year.

At the same time, I went to college to further my career. I picked a major that provided apparent financial success with little real risk. I worked in that field while I was attending college, and built up experience prior to my degree completion (which never happened). Like any investment, it's a gamble, and I judged the risks vs. the reward.

Then I see folks like the one mentioned in the article and the hundred CSB's above throwing their money away on sucker's bets, and then having the gall to complain that it's someone else's fault ... Going to college to increase your earning potential and not picking a major that is associated with an attainable career choice? Or worse, going to college with the idea that you'll simply be expanding your knowledge in your sphere of interest, though you can't actually afford to do it: this is the height of ignorance and selfishness.

I simply cannot feel any real sympathy for these folks. They put themselves in the situation with every tool and piece of knowledge available to them showing them it was a poor choice, one that would be unlikely to work out for them, and they still jumped like it was some sort of religion and all they needed was faith.
 
2012-05-31 11:27:49 AM  

KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84: Not true. Did I not say the parents need to educate their kids? Did I not say financial counselors at colleges need to inform kids of what will happen? Did I NOT SAY THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN?

But you KEEP blaming the kids! You keep assuming it is *their* responsibility to deal with a broken, predatory system rather than fixing it. "It's broken, so deal with it kids." Instead of suggesting that keeping tuition costs be kept down, loan interest rates be kept down, strictly regulating lenders and forcing them to work with income based payment plans, etc.

I would love for public universities to be free, by I know in "ZOMG SOSHULISM!!!" paranoiac America that is not possible so I will settle for the above, but too many people are way too interested in blaming the victim rather than working to fix the system. And we saw how well that worked for everyone in the housing crisis. Now we have a chance to do something before it becomes horrendously bad, but most people would rather feel self-righteous and rub the next generation's nose in it rather than heading it off.


That's not what I said at all. What I AM saying is the system is broken, but until CEO's decide they don't deserve to make 100,000 times what their workers do, and until the fed stops wasting money, and until etc etc etc, try to be clever and work around it. Try not to get assraped by these loans by taking out less of them. The system is broken, so don't get caught up in it.

Also I AM the generation you're talking about. There's nothing I can personally do about it other than try to do what I can to work hard and stay out of debt. If you're suggesting I go occupy my college local college campus, I have too much on my plate for that. There is not time in my schedule to sit around at a college. I am supportive of college reform- absolutely. But until that happens, I have to fend for myself, don't I?
 
2012-05-31 11:29:06 AM  

kiwimoogle84: You mention academic performance. I think that college should indeed be less expensive for those who did their homework and busted ass getting a 3.5 or better. If you try, you should be rewarded.


That is the very first suggestion you have made regarding the system in this entire discussion, and it is a good one I agree with. That would be even better than scholarships.
 
2012-05-31 11:30:19 AM  

KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84: Not true. Did I not say the parents need to educate their kids? Did I not say financial counselors at colleges need to inform kids of what will happen? Did I NOT SAY THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN?

And saying the parents and colleges financial aid offices have to inform them is not solving the real problems, that is just making a map of a broken system for the kid to navigate.

The problem it tuition costs are too high of 4-year degrees that are devalued on the job market, but far better than nothing, and the lenders take advantage of that situation.


I have a decent job field with nothing but a smattering of community college classes and a paper saying I have knowledge in ONE area. I don't need a four year degree to do what I do, I just have to know how to do it. Most of the jobs I've held in my field I haven't needed any education at all- I just have to know the info necessary to do it- which you can find in a library. I'm tested on my typing and ten-key, my knowledge of ICD9 and CPT codes, and my understanding of CMS1500 and UB92 forms. That's it. You can learn this stuff online if you're proactive.
 
2012-05-31 11:31:27 AM  

KiplingKat872: kiwimoogle84: You mention academic performance. I think that college should indeed be less expensive for those who did their homework and busted ass getting a 3.5 or better. If you try, you should be rewarded.

That is the very first suggestion you have made regarding the system in this entire discussion, and it is a good one I agree with. That would be even better than scholarships.


Thank you. :) We can agree on one thing, this means anything is possible!
 
2012-05-31 11:35:43 AM  

KiplingKat872:
Yes, that is what I did for my AA, I still walked out of my BA with loans and that was years ago.

The system is broken. Blaming the kids is not going to fix it.


I did something similar, community college saved a butt load of money. Then had a good chunk of loans from the BA and MA, but I just kept living like a poor student until things were mostly paid off.

There are definitely concerns of an education bubble in the economic circles, similar to the housing bubble where people are spending huge amounts of money on degrees that arent really worth what you spend. At some point this bubble will crash and people will stop purchasing these super expensive degrees. It is unfortunate that this bubble is being fueled by easy lending practices.

Personally, I would tell the kids to quit thinking that going to university is the only path and find a more affordable means of getting ahead. If the system is broken, you can find other ways to get around it.
 
2012-05-31 11:41:19 AM  

dameron: How is it kosher to charge 16% interest on a loan that can't be discharged? Where is the risk? Other than lying about the value of the product the $40k is buying that is.


I see what you did there.
 
2012-05-31 11:41:42 AM  

kiwimoogle84: That's not what I said at all. What I AM saying is the system is broken, but until CEO's decide they don't deserve to make 100,000 times what their workers do, and until the fed stops wasting money, and until etc etc etc, try to be clever and work around it. Try not to get assraped by these loans by taking out less of them. The system is broken, so don't get caught up in it.

Also I AM the generation you're talking about. There's nothing I can personally do about it other than try to do what I can to work hard and stay out of debt. If you're suggesting I go occupy my college local college campus, I have too much on my plate for that. There is not time in my schedule to sit around at a college. I am supportive of college reform- absolutely. But until that happens, I have to fend for myself, don't I?


O.K., I understand what you are saying now, but as long as everyone thinks like that, nothing will get fixed because CEOs are NEVER going to want to make less money and they will pull every government puppet string they can to ensure that. I'm not part of OWS, but I am a person who writes their elected representatives about proposed legislation and generally makes a pain in the ass of myself until someone listens.

Speaking of proposed legislation.

DeFazio offers legislation to keep student loan interest rates from doubling

I am sorry I got heated, and perhaps I was not reading more fully into your posts and for that I apologize, but I do think you are giving these kids a bad rap. Believe me, I do see problem children, I do see snowflakes, in my department (that's my job to deal with them), but they are the minority. Most of these are good kids who work hard, some harder than others, some smarter than others, but they believe in why they are here and what they are doing.
 
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