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(The New York Times)   That big story from CNSNews.com on how 3.4 million residents escaped New York over the last ten years because of high taxes? Yeah, about that   (takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 127
    More: Interesting, high taxes, New York  
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3335 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 May 2012 at 1:35 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-30 01:12:59 PM
Subby, you're clearly not a scientist. And I'm sorry, because I really don't want to make you look foolish here, but I feel like I can't just let your ignorance go unchecked. See, here's how science works. You have a scientist sitting around, just contemplating the world, and he has this sudden thought, what we in the science world call an "a-ha" moment because that's what you say when it happens. A-HA! And so what the scientist does is publish this idea as what's technically referred to as a "hypothesis." Publishing it makes it a real-life scientific concept, as good and as valid as any other scientific concept -- until, of course, someone else disproves it. That's called the scientific method, and it's part of the rigorous testing that hypothesises have to go through before they become, in essence, scientific scripture. And so here we have an idea, hypothesis: high taxes made a bunch of people leave New York. And CNSNews published that hypothesis and there it was, out there in the community of ideas. But did you see it disproved in this article?

No. You didn't. In fact, all they said was this:

The Tax Foundation did not commission a poll on the topic, and does not present any evidence to support that assertion. Not even anecdotal evidence.

Well of course they didn't, New York Times, it's just a hypothesis! Talk about putting the carrot before the horse. It's an idea until you prove it wrong, New York Times. That's how the scientific method works. And here's a newsflash from the Get A Clue Foundation: proving something wrong takes PROOF. But yeah, proof is hard. It's so much easier to just speculate about how something *could* be wrong.

I weep for our future.
 
2012-05-30 01:26:03 PM

Pocket Ninja: I weep for our future.


There are tons of people who would completely agree with everything you just said, so, yeah, right on.
 
2012-05-30 01:34:22 PM

Pocket Ninja: I weep for our future.


But it's today!

/Too obscure?
 
2012-05-30 01:37:22 PM
Well, Kansas just eliminated virtually all forms of taxation on even the moderately wealthy, so there should be a migration of rich folks there any day now.
 
2012-05-30 01:38:04 PM
Hm. I think Pocket Ninja made a good effort, but this is far from their best work.
 
2012-05-30 01:39:06 PM
okay, so the anecdotal stories from the Mayor about his rich friends trumps actual data.

awesome.

Baghdad Bob would be proud.
 
2012-05-30 01:42:55 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: okay, so the anecdotal stories from the Mayor about his rich friends trumps actual data.

awesome.

Baghdad Bob would be proud.


That's more evidence than CNSNews gave. They didn't even bother with the anecdotal part and went straight to partisan jackassery.
 
2012-05-30 01:43:56 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: okay, so the anecdotal stories from the Mayor about his rich friends trumps actual data.

awesome.

Baghdad Bob would be proud.


i53.tinypic.com
 
2012-05-30 01:46:04 PM
New York is too expensive. Its not just taxes, but they don't help. I love New York but I don't plan on staying here when its time fo rkids.
 
2012-05-30 01:47:08 PM
3.4 Million New Yorkers may have moved to Florida:

*in search of the warm embrace of Rick Scott due to a innate fondness for bald megalomaniacs

*to protest His Majesty Michael Bloomberg's racist stop and frisk policy

*to begin a second career as gator wrastlers

*because the freedoms

*to join an elderly thong enthusiast community

*in search of hot elderly tail

*to follow Florida Gator - Tebow

*to escape New York Jet - Tebow

I too can make up a lot of reasons for population outflows, most likely a lot of people accelerated retirement to a lower cost of living state due to a global recession and historically low home prices in Florida.
 
2012-05-30 01:47:48 PM
tenpoundsofcheese: So the conservative anecdotal evidence is OK. But the moderate anecdotal evidence is propaganda.

Your posts are about as surprising as the sun rising.
 
2012-05-30 01:48:15 PM

Pocket Ninja: Well of course they didn't, New York Times, it's just a hypothesis! Talk about putting the carrot before the horse. It's an idea until you prove it wrong, New York Times. That's how the scientific method works. And here's a newsflash from the Get A Clue Foundation: proving something wrong takes PROOF. But yeah, proof is hard. It's so much easier to just speculate about how something *could* be wrong.


This reminds me of the South Park with Beaverton.

Field Reporter: We're not sure what exactly is going on inside the town of Beaverton, uh, Tom, but we're reporting that there's looting, raping, and yes, even acts of cannibalism.

Desk Anchor: My God, you've, you've actually seen people looting, raping and eating each other?

Field Reporter: No, no, we haven't actually seen it Tom, we're just reporting it.
 
2012-05-30 01:49:41 PM

Diogenes: Your posts are about as surprising as the sun rising.


And where does the sun rise? The East! And you know what's in the East? That's right: commies.
 
2012-05-30 01:49:42 PM
germankrew.com

what escaping from new york may look like
 
2012-05-30 01:49:52 PM
The no state income tax thing is nice. If only for the fact that the stupid NJ Income Tax forms were like 20 times more complicated than the EZ Federal I used to file with when I lived there.

But it's certainly not why I moved here.
 
2012-05-30 01:51:27 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: okay, so the anecdotal stories from the Mayor about his rich friends trumps actual data.

awesome.

Baghdad Bob would be proud.


No kidding. This was an awful blog that means absolutely nothing.

Side note- I wouldn't doubt taxes and regulations DO have a factor in the high cost of living in NYC. There is no way I could afford living there, and from what I gathered in my visit to NYC, keeping up with all the city council demands is a headache I would rather avoid. NYC - a good place to visit, a horrible place to live.
 
2012-05-30 01:53:15 PM
I don't know about an escape from New York but it takes two to tango & cash is pretty tight these days. That said, we really need funds to death proof elevators in city buildings and prevent terrorists from making unlawful entry. Of course we shouldn't go overboard with the whole thing. Cuomo needs to make an executive decision and just brace himself for any backdraft. The thing is, without sane tax policies, it is going to say "It was the best of times while it lasted" on New York's tombstone.
 
2012-05-30 01:53:56 PM
Conservatives making sh@t up to protect historically low tax rates for their billionare supporters?....you don't say.
 
2012-05-30 01:54:33 PM
People leave NY because they are old and Florida exists. They all come back and spend their money in the summer though.

Sorry, but this fantasy that hyper-wealthy New Yorkers, their prissy wives, kids and mistresses are going to pick up and move to Branson, MO for a better tax rate is rather insane.
 
2012-05-30 01:55:56 PM

Deftoons: tenpoundsofcheese: okay, so the anecdotal stories from the Mayor about his rich friends trumps actual data.

awesome.

Baghdad Bob would be proud.

No kidding. This was an awful blog that means absolutely nothing.

Side note- I wouldn't doubt taxes and regulations DO have a factor in the high cost of living in NYC. There is no way I could afford living there, and from what I gathered in my visit to NYC, keeping up with all the city council demands is a headache I would rather avoid. NYC - a good place to visit, a horrible place to live.


Yes a major headache that only makes NYC the most populated city in America.
 
2012-05-30 01:56:13 PM
Is there really such thing as a "big story" from CNS News? That's like saying Weekly World News has big stories.
 
2012-05-30 01:56:31 PM

skullkrusher: I don't know about an escape from New York but it takes two to tango & cash is pretty tight these days. That said, we really need funds to death proof elevators in city buildings and prevent terrorists from making unlawful entry. Of course we shouldn't go overboard with the whole thing. Cuomo needs to make an executive decision and just brace himself for any backdraft. The thing is, without sane tax policies, it is going to say "It was the best of times while it lasted" on New York's tombstone.


Nicely done.
 
2012-05-30 01:58:26 PM
www.movie-vault.com
All right, get your machine ready, I'm coming out.
 
2012-05-30 01:59:01 PM
Hey, idiots, there's a whole state here, not just a city.
 
2012-05-30 01:59:39 PM
As someone who has their primary residence in NY i will eventually be fleeing the state for the lower taxes of Massachusetts. Think about that...
 
2012-05-30 01:59:49 PM

Tax Boy: [germankrew.com image 264x320]

what escaping from new york may look like


Awww! too late!
 
2012-05-30 02:01:59 PM

skullkrusher: I don't know about an escape from New York but it takes two to tango & cash is pretty tight these days. That said, we really need funds to death proof elevators in city buildings and prevent terrorists from making unlawful entry. Of course we shouldn't go overboard with the whole thing. Cuomo needs to make an executive decision and just brace himself for any backdraft. The thing is, without sane tax policies, it is going to say "It was the best of times while it lasted" on New York's tombstone.

 
2012-05-30 02:01:59 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Hey, idiots, there's a whole state here, not just a city.


Yeah, there's... Uttica?
 
2012-05-30 02:02:41 PM
And may I just say, fark you New Yorkers and Pennsylvanians for having no respect for this environment.
 
2012-05-30 02:05:08 PM

HotWingConspiracy: People leave NY because they are old and Florida exists. They all come back and spend their money in the summer though.

Sorry, but this fantasy that hyper-wealthy New Yorkers, their prissy wives, kids and mistresses are going to pick up and move to Branson, MO for a better tax rate is rather insane.


The former owner of the company I work for (his son owns it now), lives in Vegas in the winter and comes back to NY for the spring and summer. He is in Vegas at least 51% of the year so he's not subject to NY's state income taxes.
 
2012-05-30 02:06:23 PM

Salt Lick Steady: And may I just say, fark you New Yorkers and Pennsylvanians for having no respect for this environment.


What environment? Being nice to the native retards of Florida?
 
2012-05-30 02:07:50 PM

WTF Indeed: Salt Lick Steady: And may I just say, fark you New Yorkers and Pennsylvanians for having no respect for this environment.

What environment? Being nice to the native retards of Florida?


Could be the fracking.
 
2012-05-30 02:08:18 PM

make me some tea: HotWingConspiracy: People leave NY because they are old and Florida exists. They all come back and spend their money in the summer though.

Sorry, but this fantasy that hyper-wealthy New Yorkers, their prissy wives, kids and mistresses are going to pick up and move to Branson, MO for a better tax rate is rather insane.

The former owner of the company I work for (his son owns it now), lives in Vegas in the winter and comes back to NY for the spring and summer. He is in Vegas at least 51% of the year so he's not subject to NY's state income taxes.


If he owns a property in NY state, they will try to tax him. They have changed their residency standards that look to whether have a property that you could live in rather than applying a strict test based on number of days. They are auditing people with summer homes in the Hamptons and trying to tax their full annual income. It has gotten a little nuts in Albany.
 
2012-05-30 02:08:47 PM

WTF Indeed: Salt Lick Steady: And may I just say, fark you New Yorkers and Pennsylvanians for having no respect for this environment.

What environment? Being nice to the native retards of Florida?


I think he was referring to the disgusting humidity, daily rain, pimply white kids in oversized basketball jerseys driving jacked up Toyota Tacomas and the zombies who eat people's faces off

/everything I need to know about FL I learned on Fark and in Clearwater
 
2012-05-30 02:10:18 PM

ps69: make me some tea: HotWingConspiracy: People leave NY because they are old and Florida exists. They all come back and spend their money in the summer though.

Sorry, but this fantasy that hyper-wealthy New Yorkers, their prissy wives, kids and mistresses are going to pick up and move to Branson, MO for a better tax rate is rather insane.

The former owner of the company I work for (his son owns it now), lives in Vegas in the winter and comes back to NY for the spring and summer. He is in Vegas at least 51% of the year so he's not subject to NY's state income taxes.

If he owns a property in NY state, they will try to tax him. They have changed their residency standards that look to whether have a property that you could live in rather than applying a strict test based on number of days. They are auditing people with summer homes in the Hamptons and trying to tax their full annual income. It has gotten a little nuts in Albany.


Huh, didn't know that.
 
2012-05-30 02:11:13 PM
NYs business model is pretty much built on this fact.

Offer services that attract 20 somethings. They stay and raise a family, then some of them move away when they are old and no longer find it valuable to be there.

If too many people are moving away from NY, they will change their business model.

Its like an article that says, "Disneyland cost too much, people aren't coming, they need to charge less!". Disney will figure out what the best price to set, don't worry your pretty head about it too much.
 
2012-05-30 02:11:14 PM

skullkrusher: I don't know about an escape from New York but it takes two to tango & cash is pretty tight these days. That said, we really need funds to death proof elevators in city buildings and prevent terrorists from making unlawful entry. Of course we shouldn't go overboard with the whole thing. Cuomo needs to make an executive decision and just brace himself for any backdraft. The thing is, without sane tax policies, it is going to say "It was the best of times while it lasted" on New York's tombstone.


I wouldn't usually post such a curt reply, but I think I can rustle up some kudos for you.
 
2012-05-30 02:11:28 PM

WTF Indeed: Salt Lick Steady: And may I just say, fark you New Yorkers and Pennsylvanians for having no respect for this environment.

What environment? Being nice to the native retards of Florida?


Hey now :-(
 
2012-05-30 02:13:03 PM

qorkfiend: WTF Indeed: Salt Lick Steady: And may I just say, fark you New Yorkers and Pennsylvanians for having no respect for this environment.

What environment? Being nice to the native retards of Florida?

Could be the fracking.


I thought NY had a moratorium on that.

PA sold it's soul to the drilling industry a long time ago though.
 
2012-05-30 02:13:24 PM

make me some tea: ps69: make me some tea: HotWingConspiracy: People leave NY because they are old and Florida exists. They all come back and spend their money in the summer though.

Sorry, but this fantasy that hyper-wealthy New Yorkers, their prissy wives, kids and mistresses are going to pick up and move to Branson, MO for a better tax rate is rather insane.

The former owner of the company I work for (his son owns it now), lives in Vegas in the winter and comes back to NY for the spring and summer. He is in Vegas at least 51% of the year so he's not subject to NY's state income taxes.

If he owns a property in NY state, they will try to tax him. They have changed their residency standards that look to whether have a property that you could live in rather than applying a strict test based on number of days. They are auditing people with summer homes in the Hamptons and trying to tax their full annual income. It has gotten a little nuts in Albany.

Huh, didn't know that.


I think it is only applied to income you earned while a resident or New York based income you earned while a non-res
 
2012-05-30 02:14:29 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: cameroncrazy1984: Hey, idiots, there's a whole state here, not just a city.

Yeah, there's... Uttica?


You clearly forgot the thriving cultural nexus that is Gasport.
 
2012-05-30 02:14:55 PM

Diogenes: Hey now :-(


It's okay Diogenes, you aren't all retards. Just a large majority.
 
2012-05-30 02:16:17 PM

PirateKing: skullkrusher: I don't know about an escape from New York but it takes two to tango & cash is pretty tight these days. That said, we really need funds to death proof elevators in city buildings and prevent terrorists from making unlawful entry. Of course we shouldn't go overboard with the whole thing. Cuomo needs to make an executive decision and just brace himself for any backdraft. The thing is, without sane tax policies, it is going to say "It was the best of times while it lasted" on New York's tombstone.

I wouldn't usually post such a curt reply, but I think I can rustle up some kudos for you.


heehee
 
2012-05-30 02:16:22 PM

WTF Indeed: Diogenes: Hey now :-(

It's okay Diogenes, you aren't all retards. Just a large majority.


Well, my genes are from NJ. But who knows what mutations I've undergone after living here for 18 years.
 
2012-05-30 02:16:24 PM

HotWingConspiracy: People leave NY because they are old and Florida exists. They all come back and spend their money in the summer though.

Sorry, but this fantasy that hyper-wealthy New Yorkers, their prissy wives, kids and mistresses are going to pick up and move to Branson, MO for a better tax rate is rather insane.


THANK GOD
 
2012-05-30 02:18:09 PM
New York City currently has more residents than at any other time in its history.

Doesn't look like there's an exodus happening.
 
2012-05-30 02:18:24 PM

ps69: If he owns a property in NY state, they will try to tax him. They have changed their residency standards that look to whether have a property that you could live in rather than applying a strict test based on number of days. They are auditing people with summer homes in the Hamptons and trying to tax their full annual income. It has gotten a little nuts in Albany.


NY is all about the money grabbing, we got a letter this year from them saying we owed them 3500 something dollars for more taxes from 2008, luckily we have an accountant that keeps all our records and it was easy to get it straightened out for us but I know people who do their own taxes and their "records" are filed in the trash and if you have nothing saying they are full of shiat they'll just garnish your wages.
 
2012-05-30 02:19:37 PM

Headso: ps69: If he owns a property in NY state, they will try to tax him. They have changed their residency standards that look to whether have a property that you could live in rather than applying a strict test based on number of days. They are auditing people with summer homes in the Hamptons and trying to tax their full annual income. It has gotten a little nuts in Albany.

NY is all about the money grabbing, we got a letter this year from them saying we owed them 3500 something dollars for more taxes from 2008, luckily we have an accountant that keeps all our records and it was easy to get it straightened out for us but I know people who do their own taxes and their "records" are filed in the trash and if you have nothing saying they are full of shiat they'll just garnish your wages.


must be all the jews, amirite?
 
2012-05-30 02:21:33 PM
And yet Mr. Hodge gives us no reason to think that taxes played a part in a single person's decision to leave New York-let alone that taxes "may have" spurred "many more" departures than weather. The Tax Foundation did not commission a poll on the topic, and does not present any evidence to support that assertion. Not even anecdotal evidence.

It doesn't matter whether the claim is true or not. It's that it could be true. Are you willing to risk it? Or eliminate that risk by lowering taxes?

It's like Iraq. Saddam Hussein might have been a threat to the US. Was he already planning something? Maybe, maybe not -- but he could have been. We invade, eliminate the threat, and boom, no threat from Iraq ever again.
 
2012-05-30 02:24:12 PM
Taxachusetts's population increased at a lower rate than the national average between 2000 and 2010. Thanks a lot Comrade Romnev.
 
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