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(The New York Times)   NY Times article ponders why Wisconsin has become so politically polarized. Did you really have to ask?   (nytimes.com) divider line 289
    More: Obvious, College Republicans, Wisconsin, David Koch, American Legislative Exchange Council, Democratic Party of Wisconsin, Shell Oil, University of Wisconsin, President Theodore Roosevelt  
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2194 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 May 2012 at 12:53 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-28 11:38:37 AM
Republicans.
 
2012-05-28 12:40:18 PM
Because the midwest is pretty diverse politically?
 
2012-05-28 12:57:22 PM
Because the Republican Governor has chosen to attack a long time source of Democratic Party funding by busting the public sector unions.

How hard is that to figure out?
 
2012-05-28 12:57:55 PM
Because black people are scary and something that most Wisconsinites only hear of in rap videos?
 
2012-05-28 12:59:23 PM
"Citizens" United?
 
2012-05-28 01:00:12 PM
I heard that teachers are scary. And the GOP hates the Packers.
 
2012-05-28 01:03:01 PM

MFAWG: Because the Republican Governor has chosen to attack a long time source of Democratic Party funding by busting the public sector unions.
How hard is that to figure out?


THIS.

/the forced wealth transfer from union members to the Democrat(ic) Party coffers
 
2012-05-28 01:03:15 PM
I heard that if Wisconsin becomes a right-to-work state, the Packers will be forced to leave*

*Not intended to be a factual statement but it sounds scary and it's nowhere near as bad as what the GOP is doing
 
2012-05-28 01:05:09 PM

soy_bomb: MFAWG: Because the Republican Governor has chosen to attack a long time source of Democratic Party funding by busting the public sector unions.
How hard is that to figure out?

THIS.

/the forced wealth transfer from union members to the Democrat(ic) Party coffers


Unions are democratic organizations. Why you hate democracy?
 
2012-05-28 01:09:27 PM

MFAWG: Unions are democratic organizations. Why you hate democracy?


Not democratic enough to allow one to avoid membership and keep their job free from harassment.

/Democracy sucks compared to a Representative Republic
//That's why I choose to live in one
 
2012-05-28 01:09:57 PM

MFAWG: soy_bomb: MFAWG: Because the Republican Governor has chosen to attack a long time source of Democratic Party funding by busting the public sector unions.
How hard is that to figure out?

THIS.

/the forced wealth transfer from union members to the Democrat(ic) Party coffers

Unions are democratic organizations. Why you hate democracy?


Unlike corporations, which donate capitol derived by the labor of workers at the whim of a single individual bent on increasing his advantage over the rest of us.
 
2012-05-28 01:11:11 PM

soy_bomb: MFAWG: Unions are democratic organizations. Why you hate democracy?

Not democratic enough to allow one to avoid membership and keep their job free from harassment.

/Democracy sucks compared to a Representative Republic
//That's why I choose to live in one


Sure they are, if a majority of members decide to make it so. If not then you are free to seek employment elsewhere.
 
2012-05-28 01:11:19 PM

soy_bomb: MFAWG: Unions are democratic organizations. Why you hate democracy?

Not democratic enough to allow one to avoid membership and keep their job free from harassment.

/Democracy sucks compared to a Representative Republic
//That's why I choose to live in one


Have you ever been a union member, or worked as a supervisor in a union shop?

Have you ever belonged to a professional organization?
 
2012-05-28 01:11:26 PM

soy_bomb: MFAWG: Because the Republican Governor has chosen to attack a long time source of Democratic Party funding by busting the public sector unions.
How hard is that to figure out?

THIS.

/the forced wealth transfer from union members to the Democrat(ic) Party coffers


Shouldn't you also be upset at the forced wealth transfer every time you buy an overpriced item, that the CEO of that company gets to take your money and transfer it to the Republican party?

What if "right to work" could be applied to the products we buy ("Right to Buy")? I can buy a $20 lamp, or i can choose to only pay $15 and decline to have $5 of my purchase go to that company's political activity (donations/lobbying, etc.). Everyone in the country gets to save money, and the Republican Party goes bankrupt overnight.

Why is it ok with Corporations take your money and give it to the Republican Party, but if a group of workers decide to pool their money and part of that money goes to electing people who will fight for their economic interests as low-income people, that is suddenly a bad thing? Is it because they aren't wearing suits?
 
2012-05-28 01:14:21 PM
img560.imageshack.us
 
2012-05-28 01:15:36 PM

OceanVortex: Shouldn't you also be upset at the forced wealth transfer every time you buy an overpriced item, that the CEO of that company gets to take your money and transfer it to the Republican party?


Like forced wealth transfer from bank customers to the coffers of wealthy CEOs, who then use the money to support GOP SuperPACs?

Soy's false outrage is false
 
2012-05-28 01:16:21 PM
i1097.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-28 01:17:42 PM
I can already seeing this turn into a Unions vs. Corporations flame thread.

Here, let me preemptively summarize.

20% of SuperPAC money is from Democratic-leaning sources, 80% is from the GOP (stats from a thread yesterday). So at best, Unions are only contributing 20% of the total mess that resulted from Citizens United.

But even given this information, the trolls will continue to rail on the evils of the Unions, even when faced with the stark reality that most of that 80% of GOP money comes from less than 100 individuals.

So, by proxy, deflecting arguments and generally outright ignorance, soy_bomb and the other trolls that will undoubtedly come to roost in this thread are advocating for a return to more or less feudal rule by corporate overlords.

Trolls - why do you hate democracy?
 
2012-05-28 01:19:35 PM
Because the rhetoric from the GOP has gotten to the point of demonizing large groups of our populace. People have either decided to reject this hate-speech and realize that, despite some differences, we are all Wisconsinites and we're all in this together, or they've decided that remaining loyal to a political party that's gone off the deep end is more important. Those of us that decided that this hate-filled rhetoric needs to stop have in turn become yet another group that the hate-mongers have decided to demonize, and there is no point in trying to talk sense into someone like that. Essentially, all constructive discourse has broken down.

The other day while I was volunteering on a phone bank I had a woman tell me that she supports Walker because he understands that teachers and their union are responsible for the demise of our state, and that we need to abandon public education in favor of privatized schools with a voucher program because our schools do nothing but indoctrinate children. How does one even try to talk sense into someone like that? I just thanked her for her time and hung up. There's no point in talking to someone like that.
 
2012-05-28 01:20:23 PM
Because Wisconsin has been a Democrat state since WWII - now it seems to be awaking from its deep sleep.
 
2012-05-28 01:23:00 PM

downstairs: Because the midwest is pretty diverse politically?


Yeah, but that wasn't really a problem before the GOP governor tried to "bust" the major stronghold of his political opponents, funding-wise. It's not really even the party in general that's the problem so much as the one guy sparking a turf war where everyone was fine originally. Once he (and his major funders) went off the rails his party didn't really have any choice but to close ranks, which caused the Dems to to the same, and it just got out of hand.
 
2012-05-28 01:26:16 PM
Nope.

Walker has raised more than $25 million for his campaign, 60 percent of it from outside the state, while his Democratic opponent, Tom Barrett, the mayor of Milwaukee (whom Walker defeated in a regular election less than two years ago), has raised less than $1 million. "Wisconsin used to be the beacon of clean and open and honest government," Mike McCabe, the head of the nonpartisan Wisconsin Democracy Campaign, which tracks money in politics, told me. "We are now just a pawn on a national chessboard."
 
2012-05-28 01:27:05 PM
Jim_Callahan

downstairs: Because the midwest is pretty diverse politically?

Yeah, but that wasn't really a problem before the GOP governor tried to "bust" the major stronghold of his political opponents, funding-wise. It's not really even the party in general that's the problem so much as the one guy sparking a turf war where everyone was fine originally. Once he (and his major funders) went off the rails his party didn't really have any choice but to close ranks, which caused the Dems to to the same, and it just got out of hand.



If he survives the recall - doesn't that mean the people of Wisconsin have spoken?
 
2012-05-28 01:28:07 PM

Jim_Callahan: downstairs: Because the midwest is pretty diverse politically?

Yeah, but that wasn't really a problem before the GOP governor tried to "bust" the major stronghold of his political opponents, funding-wise. It's not really even the party in general that's the problem so much as the one guy sparking a turf war where everyone was fine originally. Once he (and his major funders) went off the rails his party didn't really have any choice but to close ranks, which caused the Dems to to the same, and it just got out of hand.


Yup. The problem is that this turf war has EVERYTHING to do with partisanship, and nothing to do with effective policy or governance.

Which is kind of a shame, because I may not actually disagree that public sector have gotten too powerful in a few states.

Private sector unions are a different matter all together. I believe as the 41st POTUS did that union membership and the right to collectively bargain are fundamental human rights in a free market system.
 
2012-05-28 01:29:08 PM
Would it do anything with the fact that Governor Walker admitted that his plan to turn the state red was the Divide and Conquer method of attack? Methinks it's rather obvious.
 
2012-05-28 01:32:37 PM

karnal: Because Wisconsin has been a Democrat state since WWII - now it seems to be awaking from its deep sleep.


It will mean corporations really can buy elections.
 
2012-05-28 01:36:01 PM

OceanVortex: soy_bomb: MFAWG: Because the Republican Governor has chosen to attack a long time source of Democratic Party funding by busting the public sector unions.
How hard is that to figure out?

THIS.

/the forced wealth transfer from union members to the Democrat(ic) Party coffers

Shouldn't you also be upset at the forced wealth transfer every time you buy an overpriced item, that the CEO of that company gets to take your money and transfer it to the Republican party?

What if "right to work" could be applied to the products we buy ("Right to Buy")? I can buy a $20 lamp, or i can choose to only pay $15 and decline to have $5 of my purchase go to that company's political activity (donations/lobbying, etc.). Everyone in the country gets to save money, and the Republican Party goes bankrupt overnight.

Why is it ok with Corporations take your money and give it to the Republican Party, but if a group of workers decide to pool their money and part of that money goes to electing people who will fight for their economic interests as low-income people, that is suddenly a bad thing? Is it because they aren't wearing suits?


What if part of that group doesn't want their money going to a particular politician?
Theft is theft whether it's a Union or a Corporation doing it. The 'Reamsters' have been stealing from me for over 20 years.
Please explain how a Corporation is taking my money and giving it to politicians, that part doesn't make sense.
 
2012-05-28 01:37:39 PM

karnal: Because Wisconsin has been a Democrat state since WWII - now it seems to be awaking from its deep sleep.


Umm, no. From 1944 to 2008 we went Rep on 8 Presidential elections, and Dem on 9. Since 1942 we've had 17 gubernatorial terms served by a Rep, and 8 served by a Dem.
 
2012-05-28 01:41:00 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: karnal: Because Wisconsin has been a Democrat state since WWII - now it seems to be awaking from its deep sleep.

Umm, no. From 1944 to 2008 we went Rep on 8 Presidential elections, and Dem on 9. Since 1942 we've had 17 gubernatorial terms served by a Rep, and 8 served by a Dem.


Yep. I'm sure like Illinois below you... there are strong democratic areas (Chicago, university areas) and strong republican areas (suburbs, rural-ish areas.) Like most of the midwest.
 
2012-05-28 01:44:16 PM

Sabyen91: karnal: Because Wisconsin has been a Democrat state since WWII - now it seems to be awaking from its deep sleep.

It will mean corporations really can buy elections.


As God Himself intended!
 
2012-05-28 01:45:36 PM
Don't Troll Me Bro!

karnal: Because Wisconsin has been a Democrat state since WWII - now it seems to be awaking from its deep sleep.

Umm, no. From 1944 to 2008 we went Rep on 8 Presidential elections, and Dem on 9. Since 1942 we've had 17 gubernatorial terms served by a Rep, and 8 served by a Dem.


Wisconsin is considered a Blue State....has been for years.
 
2012-05-28 01:51:01 PM
We're forgetting the most important part of this story:

A cheesehead hat looks farking awesome when it's on fire.
 
2012-05-28 01:52:30 PM

karnal: Don't Troll Me Bro!

karnal: Because Wisconsin has been a Democrat state since WWII - now it seems to be awaking from its deep sleep.

Umm, no. From 1944 to 2008 we went Rep on 8 Presidential elections, and Dem on 9. Since 1942 we've had 17 gubernatorial terms served by a Rep, and 8 served by a Dem.

Wisconsin is considered a Blue State....has been for years.


In terms of Pres. elections, we've been blue since 1988, yes. But you said since WWII, which is incorrect, hence my response.
 
2012-05-28 01:54:01 PM

ArmednHammered: Why is it ok with Corporations take your money and give it to the Republican Party, but if a group of workers decide to pool their money and part of that money goes to electing people who will fight for their economic interests as low-income people, that is suddenly a bad thing? Is it because they aren't wearing suits?

What if part of that group doesn't want their money going to a particular politician?
Theft is theft whether it's a Union or a Corporation doing it. The 'Reamsters' have been stealing from me for over 20 years.
Please explain how a Corporation is taking my money and giving it to politicians, that part doesn't make sense.


I, and many other consumers, don't want my the money I'm giving corporations to go to the Tea Party crazies in the Republican Party, are you agreeing that it is wrong when corporations do it? I'm saying you can't have it both ways. Saying workers can't band together to pool their money in their collective best interest (even if an individual in the bunch decides they don't care about their collective best interest), but then saying that a CEO is allowed to take the pooled money of all of his customers, without their say, and give to to the GOP is ok.... not playing fair. Pick a side.
 
2012-05-28 01:55:37 PM

bobbette: Nope.

Walker has raised more than $25 million for his campaign, 60 percent of it from outside the state, while his Democratic opponent, Tom Barrett, the mayor of Milwaukee (whom Walker defeated in a regular election less than two years ago), has raised less than $1 million. "Wisconsin used to be the beacon of clean and open and honest government," Mike McCabe, the head of the nonpartisan Wisconsin Democracy Campaign, which tracks money in politics, told me. "We are now just a pawn on a national chessboard."


`

padresteve.files.wordpress.com
Mungo Wisconsin only pawn in game of life Politics.
 
2012-05-28 02:00:46 PM

karnal: Because Wisconsin has been a Democrat state since WWII - now it seems to be awaking from its deep sleep.


No. Wrong. It's always been purple.

And once upon a time, apart from Joe McCarthy and a few other Bircher embarrasments we were all ashamed of, most of our Republicans were sane and thoughtful public servants.

But now almost all of our repubs are dogmatic morons like repubs everywhere else.
 
2012-05-28 02:01:52 PM
Wanted for questioning
latimesblogs.latimes.com
 
2012-05-28 02:04:18 PM
Spaz-master


Wanted for questioning



Couldn't you have put a picture with the original cast? This is after Fonz jumped the shark.
 
2012-05-28 02:07:56 PM

karnal: Spaz-master


Wanted for questioning



Couldn't you have put a picture with the original cast? This is after Fonz jumped the shark.

spud.wetfish.net
 
2012-05-28 02:10:26 PM
Because the rest of the state has finally stood up to the People's Republic of Madison?
 
2012-05-28 02:13:21 PM

St Andrew: Because the rest of the state has finally stood up to the People's Republic of Madison?


You objected to good wages and education, support a governor who seeks to destroy the state?
 
2012-05-28 02:14:36 PM
Spaz-master

karnal: Spaz-master


Wanted for questioning



Couldn't you have put a picture with the original cast? This is after Fonz jumped the shark.



Oh....then very good!
 
2012-05-28 02:15:04 PM

OceanVortex: ArmednHammered: Why is it ok with Corporations take your money and give it to the Republican Party, but if a group of workers decide to pool their money and part of that money goes to electing people who will fight for their economic interests as low-income people, that is suddenly a bad thing? Is it because they aren't wearing suits?

What if part of that group doesn't want their money going to a particular politician?
Theft is theft whether it's a Union or a Corporation doing it. The 'Reamsters' have been stealing from me for over 20 years.
Please explain how a Corporation is taking my money and giving it to politicians, that part doesn't make sense.

I, and many other consumers, don't want my the money I'm giving corporations to go to the Tea Party crazies in the Republican Party, are you agreeing that it is wrong when corporations do it? I'm saying you can't have it both ways. Saying workers can't band together to pool their money in their collective best interest (even if an individual in the bunch decides they don't care about their collective best interest), but then saying that a CEO is allowed to take the pooled money of all of his customers, without their say, and give to to the GOP is ok.... not playing fair. Pick a side.


The difference is, you choose to give your money to a Corporation when you buy things. I can choose not to buy from Corp. X. But since I live in California, I'm forced to pay dues to a Union if I want a job that pays a living wage. There are supposed to be laws in place that prevent a Union from using your dues money for political activities if you request it, I did and the Union laughed in my face. No State agency will do anything about it because guess what, they're all controlled by the unions. Not all Corporations (why are we capitalizing that?) give exclusively to one party or the other. The union I'm in doesn't give me that choice. I can choose not to be a member of the union, but I still have to pay them dues if I want to keep my job.
 
2012-05-28 02:19:45 PM

indylaw: Because black people are scary and something that most Wisconsinites only hear of in rap videos?


TFA is mostly about an injun; but the Wisconsin GOP may not see much difference.
 
2012-05-28 02:19:49 PM

ArmednHammered: The difference is, you choose to give your money to a Corporation when you buy things.


Any Comcast subscribers in the thread want to have a swing at this?
 
2012-05-28 02:25:47 PM

erveek: ArmednHammered: The difference is, you choose to give your money to a Corporation when you buy things.

Any Comcast subscribers in the thread want to have a swing at this?


Comcast is the only cable outfit in my town. I chose not to give them my money.
I still have plenty of entertainment options.
 
2012-05-28 02:26:42 PM

erveek: ArmednHammered: The difference is, you choose to give your money to a Corporation when you buy things.

Any Comcast subscribers in the thread want to have a swing at this?


You could choose not to subscribe?
 
2012-05-28 02:26:50 PM
www.r3vlimited.com
 
2012-05-28 02:29:46 PM

ArmednHammered: erveek: ArmednHammered: The difference is, you choose to give your money to a Corporation when you buy things.

Any Comcast subscribers in the thread want to have a swing at this?

Comcast is the only cable outfit in my town. I chose not to give them my money.
I still have plenty of entertainment options.


I was more sort of inquiring from the standpoint of what is laughably called high-speed internet.
 
2012-05-28 02:31:57 PM

soy_bomb: MFAWG: Unions are democratic organizations. Why you hate democracy?

Not democratic enough to allow one to avoid membership and keep their job free from harassment.

/Democracy sucks compared to a Representative Republic
//That's why I choose to live in one


Unfortunately, Wisconsin doesn't have a representative government (unless you're rich as all hell).
 
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