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(UPI)   Comparing the ex Patriot Act to Nazism...always a good argument   (upi.com) divider line 182
    More: Amusing, Grover Norquist, Patriots, Nazis, Speaker Boehner, Americans for Tax Reform, cogency, local taxes, parting shot  
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2616 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 May 2012 at 8:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-25 09:19:13 AM  

Make More Hinjews: Liberalism = Government
Lack of Government = Good
Social Darwinism = Good

I learned some things today!

/ I'm just saying, they miss you over at Stormfront.

// That's all I'm saying.



I'm not saying what's good or bad. That argument hinges on the fact that government isn't human's natural state.

And you can go fark yourself with your stormfront accusation.
 
2012-05-25 09:19:17 AM  

Frank N Stein: Frank N Stein: dookdookdook: Reality has a well known liberal bias.

What is reality? Barring the endless philosophical debates on what consists of reality, it can be safely said that reality is essentially the combination of the laws of the physical universe and our perception of those laws. Those physical laws (and our perception) are specific to us and all living things in the biological laws which govern continual existence, i.e natural selection. Seeing as how modern day liberalism (and really, societal/governments in general) seeks to mitigate those laws of natural selection in human society (social Darwinism), this comes as an affront reality as known throughout nature. Therefore, liberalism (and all forms of government) is an attempt to distort and combat the laws of nature.

There, your bumper sticker slogan has been debunked.

Hmmm. Upon rereading, that came out worse than I thought. I'm trying to just do a little philosophical thought exercise, but this paragraph can be debunked pretty easily.

For shame, me.


At least you admitted it. ;)
 
2012-05-25 09:19:42 AM  

Frank N Stein: Hmmm. Upon rereading, that came out worse than I thought. I'm trying to just do a little philosophical thought exercise, but this paragraph can be debunked pretty easily.

For shame, me.


Your post was bad, and you should feel bad.
 
2012-05-25 09:20:11 AM  

dookdookdook: Norquist told The Hill: "I think Schumer can probably find the legislation to do this. It existed in Germany in the 1930s and Rhodesia in the'70s and South Africa as well. He probably just plagerized it and translated it from the original German."
...
UPDATE: A member of Norquist's team denies the comparison to Nazism. "Schumer's claim about Grover's comments are simply not true," Americans for Tax Reform communications director John Kartch said in an email. "He did not compare the Ex-Patriot act to Nazism."

Reality has a well known liberal bias.


I can't decide in which way Norquist is wrong here. While he didn't explicitly state Nazi Germany, he said 1930's Germany, which just screams Nazi. However, then he only mentions East Germany, which was under Soviet control, Soviet-style exit taxes, and Communist education. However, East Germany didn't exist in the 1930's.

Maybe he should have paid more attention in history class instead of writing his little pledge.
 
2012-05-25 09:21:47 AM  
I mean come on guys, I'm just trying to do a little philosophical thought exercise on why libs bad and furthermore
 
2012-05-25 09:22:56 AM  

Frank N Stein: That argument hinges on the fact that government isn't human's natural state.


How so? We weren't prodded into governing by aliens (oh god, please don't think we were prodded into governing by aliens). We came up with it on our own. I'll grant that it's learned behavior, but learned behavior is still natural.

Is it unnatural that some dolphins know how to herd schools of fish into easy kill zones while others don't? What's the difference between them learning new behavior and us doing the same?
 
2012-05-25 09:23:45 AM  
Remember when the Republicans/Conservatives had as their unofficial motto: "America, Love it or Leave It!"? If you remember correctly, they had all kinds of derision for those who actually "left if."

Now they stand there and basically openly support someone who would basically turn their back on their country and fellow citizens for a few pieces of silver. I'm fine with Saverin (and fellow travelers going ex-pat) and don't consider it much of a loss. But I do have a problem with folks like him taking advantage of all of the benefits provided to him by the same government/citizens/society who now chooses to simply avoid paying taxes on the money created from those benefits and a tax policy in place which allows them to do so. The taxes should remain the same whether he retains his citizenship or not: pay the taxes on the amount you earned here = go to Singapore with your net earnings and THEN never pay US taxes again.
 
2012-05-25 09:26:56 AM  
0.tqn.com
 
2012-05-25 09:29:56 AM  

Frank N Stein: Make More Hinjews: Liberalism = Government
Lack of Government = Good
Social Darwinism = Good

I learned some things today!

/ I'm just saying, they miss you over at Stormfront.

// That's all I'm saying.


I'm not saying what's good or bad. That argument hinges on the fact that government isn't human's natural state.

And you can go fark yourself with your stormfront accusation.


Sure it is. Some form of government has been part of every human society. A clan or tribal structure is a form of government. Anarchy is profoundly unnatural to humans.
 
2012-05-25 09:35:36 AM  

Frank N Stein: Make More Hinjews: Liberalism = Government
Lack of Government = Good
Social Darwinism = Good

I learned some things today!

/ I'm just saying, they miss you over at Stormfront.

// That's all I'm saying.

I'm not saying what's good or bad. That argument hinges on the fact that government isn't human's natural state.

And you can go fark yourself with your stormfront accusation.



I'm sorry, I just got confused by your vocabulary. I haven't heard somebody praise "social Darwinism" so nonchalantly since my last meeting of the German-American Bund.

My mistake!
 
2012-05-25 09:37:21 AM  

the opposite of charity is justice: [0.tqn.com image 500x328]


I think it's better to error on the side that you can never be completely sure someone is not hitler. That would be a costly mistake after all.
 
2012-05-25 09:42:03 AM  

Frank N Stein: dookdookdook: Reality has a well known liberal bias.

What is reality? Barring the endless philosophical debates on what consists of reality, it can be safely said that reality is essentially the combination of the laws of the physical universe and our perception of those laws. Those physical laws (and our perception) are specific to us and all living things in the biological laws which govern continual existence, i.e natural selection. Seeing as how modern day liberalism (and really, societal/governments in general) seeks to mitigate those laws of natural selection in human society (social Darwinism), this comes as an affront reality as known throughout nature. Therefore, liberalism (and all forms of government) is an attempt to distort and combat the laws of nature.

There, your bumper sticker slogan has been debunked.


If "social" darwinism was still a major factor there would be a lot less dumb @sses running around because physical fitness doesn't apply to life/death situations in our society.

[Deleted a paragraph explaining, but realized the first sentance says it all]
 
2012-05-25 09:49:10 AM  
Leave it to the Republicans to equate renouncing your citizenship and leaving the country with patriotism and the American Way.
 
2012-05-25 09:51:01 AM  

Serious Black: Yeah, but Grover didn't actually compare Schumer or the Ex-Patriot Act to the Nazis. He just said that it was a bill that 1930's Germany, whose government was controlled by the Nazis, would pass and be proud of. There's a huge difference between the two.


It's still a stupid argument. It's like saying the Interstate Highway System is bad because Nazi Germany approved of the Autobahn.
 
2012-05-25 09:51:47 AM  

Frank N Stein: What is reality? Barring the endless philosophical debates on what consists of reality, it can be safely said that reality is essentially the combination of the laws of the physical universe and our perception of those laws. Those physical laws (and our perception) are specific to us and all living things in the biological laws which govern continual existence, i.e natural selection. Seeing as how modern day liberalism (and really, societal/governments in general) seeks to mitigate those laws of natural selection in human society (social Darwinism), this comes as an affront reality as known throughout nature. Therefore, liberalism (and all forms of government) is an attempt to distort and combat the laws of nature.


Wow. I never thought I could accurately call something Aristotelian bullshiat before.

There's more to reality than raw physical laws, and saying everything boils down to physics and biology is to ignore the very existence of civilization. The very development of technology and community is the active resistance of "natural law" by employing unnatural methods to beat the system. Growing food instead of foraging. Communicating verbally to spread complex ideas. Medicine. Electricity. We've shaped reality over thousands of years to make it so that natural selection doesn't apply, and we've developed a generally accepted belief that even if it is not our moral responsibility to keep even the lest of us taken care of on some level, then it is our pragmatic responsibility to keep the structure of society that we enjoy.

How skewed is your moral compass that you think social darwinism is the ideal state of the world?
 
2012-05-25 09:51:51 AM  

Lord_Baull: Leave it to the Republicans to equate renouncing your citizenship and leaving the country with patriotism and the American Way.


No Real American would voluntarily stay in America to help other Americans.
 
2012-05-25 09:52:40 AM  

Lord_Baull: Leave it to the Republicans to equate renouncing your citizenship and leaving the country with patriotism and the American Way.


We've literally reached the point where conservatives think the well-being of rich non-Americans is more important than America itself.
 
2012-05-25 09:52:50 AM  
This shrill bearded harpy again?

He and Jonah Goldberg need to team up for their Pudgy White Guys With Beards and Abhorrent Views album. They're like Zach Galifinakises of retarded ideologies.

// what's worse is that people look at them and say, "you know, that doughy dickhead has a point"
 
2012-05-25 09:53:38 AM  
Sock Ruh Tease

Mearen: The entire premise of the law is flawed. There are other reasons to give up citizenship.

Yeah, like not loving America enough to stay.

I'd like to know: why do Republicans want to protect people that hate America?




Do they hate America - or maybe just the current administration?
 
2012-05-25 09:54:04 AM  

Fart_Machine: Serious Black: Yeah, but Grover didn't actually compare Schumer or the Ex-Patriot Act to the Nazis. He just said that it was a bill that 1930's Germany, whose government was controlled by the Nazis, would pass and be proud of. There's a huge difference between the two.

It's still a stupid argument. It's like saying the Interstate Highway System is bad because Nazi Germany approved of the Autobahn.


Or that socialized medicine is bad because Nazi Germany approved of socialized medicine. I recall this argument being advanced during the debate about health care reform; I wouldn't be surprised if opponents of the IHS made the same argument back when it was in the planning stages.
 
2012-05-25 09:54:22 AM  

thurstonxhowell: Serious Black: Yeah, but Grover didn't actually compare Schumer or the Ex-Patriot Act to the Nazis. He just said that it was a bill that 1930's Germany, whose government was controlled by the Nazis, would pass and be proud of. There's a huge difference between the two.

You're right, he didn't compare Schumer to the Nazis, but he invited the comparison. The difference between the two is paper thin.


Perhaps I should have ended my post with a sarcasm slashie...

In any case, yeah, he knew exactly what he was doing by comparing it to 1930's Germany. Nobody thinks of that era and start with Weimar. People automatically think Nazi when they think of that timeframe. If he really wanted to make it clear what he was referring to, he could have specifically mentioned Weimar in his original quote or mentioned the specific law he was referring to.
 
2012-05-25 09:55:00 AM  

Bloody William: Lord_Baull: Leave it to the Republicans to equate renouncing your citizenship and leaving the country with patriotism and the American Way.

We've literally reached the point where conservatives think the well-being of rich non-Americans is more important than America itself.


When your value system has one value and one value only, and that value is Wealth, it's the logical end point.
 
2012-05-25 09:55:28 AM  

Serious Black: thurstonxhowell: Serious Black: Yeah, but Grover didn't actually compare Schumer or the Ex-Patriot Act to the Nazis. He just said that it was a bill that 1930's Germany, whose government was controlled by the Nazis, would pass and be proud of. There's a huge difference between the two.

You're right, he didn't compare Schumer to the Nazis, but he invited the comparison. The difference between the two is paper thin.

Perhaps I should have ended my post with a sarcasm slashie...

In any case, yeah, he knew exactly what he was doing by comparing it to 1930's Germany. Nobody thinks of that era and start with Weimar. People automatically think Nazi when they think of that timeframe. If he really wanted to make it clear what he was referring to, he could have specifically mentioned Weimar in his original quote or mentioned the specific law he was referring to.


Wait, they actually called it the Ex-Patriot Act? Brilliant.
 
2012-05-25 09:58:52 AM  

Serious Black: Perhaps I should have ended my post with a sarcasm slashie...


Seriously. I thought that post sounded weird coming from you.

It's not even the perception of 1930s Germany and nobody thinking of Weimar. IT's the ignorance of the target audience of these statements, who think Stalin and Hitler worked together through the 1930's until America defeated them despite FDR making the war last long, then the Russians carried on the Nazi philosophy and called it communism until Ronald Reagan beat them. Do you really think many tea partiers or other right-wing assholes who parrot this stuff have even heard of the Weimar Republic or the Treaty of Versailles?
 
2012-05-25 09:59:11 AM  

Splinshints: / and I hope Saverin falls astray of some minor law in Singapore and get a nasty caning.... dickhead


I guess we could get amazon.com to send him some chewing gum
 
2012-05-25 10:01:19 AM  

Bloody William: Lord_Baull: Leave it to the Republicans to equate renouncing your citizenship and leaving the country with patriotism and the American Way.

We've literally reached the point where conservatives think the well-being of rich non-Americans is more important than America itself.



Hell, we reached that when we decided to occupy an oil-rich nation while reducing revenue to pay for it.
 
2012-05-25 10:02:31 AM  

qorkfiend: Serious Black: thurstonxhowell: Serious Black: Yeah, but Grover didn't actually compare Schumer or the Ex-Patriot Act to the Nazis. He just said that it was a bill that 1930's Germany, whose government was controlled by the Nazis, would pass and be proud of. There's a huge difference between the two.

You're right, he didn't compare Schumer to the Nazis, but he invited the comparison. The difference between the two is paper thin.

Perhaps I should have ended my post with a sarcasm slashie...

In any case, yeah, he knew exactly what he was doing by comparing it to 1930's Germany. Nobody thinks of that era and start with Weimar. People automatically think Nazi when they think of that timeframe. If he really wanted to make it clear what he was referring to, he could have specifically mentioned Weimar in his original quote or mentioned the specific law he was referring to.

Wait, they actually called it the Ex-Patriot Act? Brilliant.


Yeah, I gotta admit that I thought it was kind of clever too.
 
2012-05-25 10:02:58 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Bloody William: Lord_Baull: Leave it to the Republicans to equate renouncing your citizenship and leaving the country with patriotism and the American Way.

We've literally reached the point where conservatives think the well-being of rich non-Americans is more important than America itself.

When your value system has one value and one value only, and that value is Wealth, it's the logical end point.



It's how Jesus would have wanted it.
 
2012-05-25 10:03:39 AM  

Bloody William: Serious Black: Perhaps I should have ended my post with a sarcasm slashie...

Seriously. I thought that post sounded weird coming from you.

It's not even the perception of 1930s Germany and nobody thinking of Weimar. IT's the ignorance of the target audience of these statements, who think Stalin and Hitler worked together through the 1930's until America defeated them despite FDR making the war last long, then the Russians carried on the Nazi philosophy and called it communism until Ronald Reagan beat them. Do you really think many tea partiers or other right-wing assholes who parrot this stuff have even heard of the Weimar Republic or the Treaty of Versailles?


Hell, they probably don't even know there was a 20-year span between WWI and WWII.
 
2012-05-25 10:06:03 AM  

Serious Black: Yeah, but Grover didn't actually compare Schumer or the Ex-Patriot Act to the Nazis. He just said that it was a bill that 1930's Germany, whose government was controlled by the Nazis, would pass and be proud of. There's a huge difference between the two.


Completely incorrect.

He said it EXISTED in Germany, and that Schumer "probably just...translated it from the original German."

"I think Schumer can probably find the legislation to do this. It existed in Germany in the 1930s and Rhodesia in the '70s and South Africa as well. He probably just plagiarized it and translated it from the original German."
 
2012-05-25 10:07:59 AM  

Serious Black: Bloody William: Serious Black: Perhaps I should have ended my post with a sarcasm slashie...

Seriously. I thought that post sounded weird coming from you.

It's not even the perception of 1930s Germany and nobody thinking of Weimar. IT's the ignorance of the target audience of these statements, who think Stalin and Hitler worked together through the 1930's until America defeated them despite FDR making the war last long, then the Russians carried on the Nazi philosophy and called it communism until Ronald Reagan beat them. Do you really think many tea partiers or other right-wing assholes who parrot this stuff have even heard of the Weimar Republic or the Treaty of Versailles?

Hell, they probably don't even know there was a 20-year span between WWI and WWII.


I think they do, if only because they know the Depression and the New Deal happened sometime before WWII.

On a side note, how terrible must it have been for WWI veterans to finally get home, settle down, and start a family, only to watch their sons go off to fight WWII?
 
2012-05-25 10:08:38 AM  

Serious Black: Bloody William: Serious Black: Perhaps I should have ended my post with a sarcasm slashie...

Seriously. I thought that post sounded weird coming from you.

It's not even the perception of 1930s Germany and nobody thinking of Weimar. IT's the ignorance of the target audience of these statements, who think Stalin and Hitler worked together through the 1930's until America defeated them despite FDR making the war last long, then the Russians carried on the Nazi philosophy and called it communism until Ronald Reagan beat them. Do you really think many tea partiers or other right-wing assholes who parrot this stuff have even heard of the Weimar Republic or the Treaty of Versailles?

Hell, they probably don't even know there was a 20-year span between WWI and WWII.


They probably don't even know there was a WWI!
 
2012-05-25 10:09:19 AM  

Frank N Stein: dookdookdook: Reality has a well known liberal bias.

What is reality? Barring the endless philosophical debates on what consists of reality, it can be safely said that reality is essentially the combination of the laws of the physical universe and our perception of those laws. Those physical laws (and our perception) are specific to us and all living things in the biological laws which govern continual existence, i.e natural selection. Seeing as how modern day liberalism (and really, societal/governments in general) seeks to mitigate those laws of natural selection in human society (social Darwinism), this comes as an affront reality as known throughout nature. Therefore, liberalism (and all forms of government) is an attempt to distort and combat the laws of nature.

There, your bumper sticker slogan has been debunked.


I reject your reality and perceive my own!
 
2012-05-25 10:11:40 AM  

qorkfiend: I think they do, if only because they know the Depression and the New Deal happened sometime before WWII.


No, the New Deal happened, then the Depression. If it wasn't for FDR, it would have lasted a weekend.
 
2012-05-25 10:15:41 AM  
GOP: Patriot Act nullifies your constitutional rights as long as the folks in power say so.....totally American.

GOP: Ex-Patriot Act closes a tax loophole for the uber rich......facism!!!!

FARK THE GOP and fark Obama for not repealling the Patriot Act.
 
2012-05-25 10:16:57 AM  

Summercat: [www.wired.com image 640x476]

Also, if he's a billionare, why can't he afford the good parts for his robot?


You gotta search every screen for blue chip things dude.
 
2012-05-25 10:17:27 AM  

Bloody William: qorkfiend: I think they do, if only because they know the Depression and the New Deal happened sometime before WWII.

No, the New Deal happened, then the Depression. If it wasn't for FDR, it would have lasted a weekend.


Right, right. I sometimes get my historical revisionism mixed up. The New Deal was for the slaves freed voluntarily by the Confederacy after they fought the Union to a standstill, right?
 
2012-05-25 10:17:55 AM  

qorkfiend: On a side note, how terrible must it have been for WWI veterans to finally get home, die of Spanish flu and encephilatis, settle down, starve to death in the depression, and start a family, only to watch their sons go off to fight WWII, then invent the Slinky?


FTFY
 
2012-05-25 10:18:31 AM  
I agree... The Patriot Act is a disgusting...

Holy shiat, he's talking about the EX Patriot Act???
 
2012-05-25 10:19:29 AM  

qorkfiend: Bloody William: qorkfiend: I think they do, if only because they know the Depression and the New Deal happened sometime before WWII.

No, the New Deal happened, then the Depression. If it wasn't for FDR, it would have lasted a weekend.

Right, right. I sometimes get my historical revisionism mixed up. The New Deal was for the slaves freed voluntarily by the Confederacy after they fought the Union to a standstill, right?


No, after the Confederacy fought back against the invading Union. Why do you think it's called the War of Northern Aggression?
 
2012-05-25 10:19:31 AM  

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: qorkfiend: On a side note, how terrible must it have been for WWI veterans to finally get home, die of Spanish flu and encephilatis, settle down, starve to death in the depression, and start a family, only to watch their sons go off to fight WWII, then invent the Slinky?

FTFY


media.steampowered.com
 
2012-05-25 10:19:44 AM  

Frank N Stein: dookdookdook: Reality has a well known liberal bias.

What is reality? Barring the endless philosophical debates on what consists of reality, it can be safely said that reality is essentially the combination of the laws of the physical universe and our perception of those laws. Those physical laws (and our perception) are specific to us and all living things in the biological laws which govern continual existence, i.e natural selection. Seeing as how modern day liberalism (and really, societal/governments in general) seeks to mitigate those laws of natural selection in human society (social Darwinism), this comes as an affront reality as known throughout nature. Therefore, liberalism (and all forms of government) is an attempt to distort and combat the laws of nature.

There, your bumper sticker slogan has been debunked.


WOW, too bad Plato, Socrates, et al.... couldnt have sat at your feet and gazed in wonder at what modern man has become...

/ This is what repuglicans really believe
//You have to destroy Reality to save lt...
 
2012-05-25 10:22:09 AM  

Lord_Baull: Leave it to the Republicans to equate renouncing your citizenship and leaving the country with patriotism and the American Way.


yeah, the idea of freedom is just so non-American.

leave it to the dems to continue with their thought crimes legislation attempts (you get the exit tax if your reason for leaving was based on taxes).
 
2012-05-25 10:23:13 AM  

Heraclitus: //You have to destroy Reality to save lt...


Both sides are bad, so vote Superboy Prime.
 
2012-05-25 10:26:56 AM  

rebelyell2006: Conservatives finally admit that the PATRIOT Act was bad?


Someone didn't rtfa.

Although why do Republicans want to encourage expatriation at all?
 
2012-05-25 10:27:39 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Lord_Baull: Leave it to the Republicans to equate renouncing your citizenship and leaving the country with patriotism and the American Way.

yeah, the idea of freedom is just so non-American.

leave it to the dems to continue with their thought crimes legislation attempts (you get the exit tax if your reason for leaving was based on taxes).


Dude, even John Boehner thinks what Saverin did was deplorable. Is he a RINO now?
 
2012-05-25 10:29:22 AM  

Serious Black: Dude, even John Boehner thinks what Saverin did was deplorable. Is he a RINO now?


He's a house speaker who half the party wants to oust because he could only get 98% of what they wanted in the last budget talks, do you really need to ask? All Republicans are RINOs the moment they step out of line on any issue.
 
2012-05-25 10:36:36 AM  
On the contrary, not only should these people not have to pay extra taxes they should be given an incentive to leave the country. Tell us your total net worth, we'll double it, then hand over your passport and get the fark out of the USA. Go move to Namibia or Somalia or Qatar or whatever foreign tax haven you want, just don't ever dare show your sorry face in this country again. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
 
2012-05-25 10:36:42 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Lord_Baull: Leave it to the Republicans to equate renouncing your citizenship and leaving the country with patriotism and the American Way.

yeah, the idea of freedom leaving the country and renouncing your citizenship is just so non-American.



Your argument really makes no sense in the context of this thread.
But look at who I'm responding to.
 
2012-05-25 10:37:59 AM  

Sock Ruh Tease: I'd like to know: why do Republicans want to protect people that hate America?


Because money is more important to the 'Pubs than patriotism, no matter what they say at their rallies.
 
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