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(Some Hippie)   "Please be kind enough to let us know the number of plainclothes officers who will be infiltrating our event so we can order the appropriate catering"   (politicsrespun.org) divider line 80
    More: Amusing, Radio-Canada, student protests, Charter of Rights, special law, Gatineau  
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6180 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 May 2012 at 3:58 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-24 03:04:37 PM
Note: the law has been amended since that was written, and the limit is 50 people.

It still is an incredibly stupid law.
 
2012-05-24 03:09:48 PM
Hilarious. I wish the prez of my company would do something like this.
 
2012-05-24 03:27:00 PM
They'll be the ones eating all of the doughnuts?
 
2012-05-24 04:00:38 PM
That's hilarious.
 
2012-05-24 04:06:25 PM
Farking Canadians, don't they know this is AMERICA?!?!!
 
2012-05-24 04:08:55 PM
Kind of like back in in the 1950's/60's when the only thing keeping the USA Communism party going was all of the due paying undercover FBI people.
 
2012-05-24 04:09:11 PM
This is awesome.

Still not sure why those students in Quebec are so worked up about tuition though. If having the lowest average tuition in Canada is cause for a riot then Ontario students should be ransacking queens park and taking hostages.
 
2012-05-24 04:11:46 PM
Yeah, and you don't stop.

Because it's a 187 on an undercover cop.

*snoopanddre.jpg*
 
2012-05-24 04:13:40 PM

E.S.Q.: Farking Canadians, don't they know this is AMERICA?!?!!


No, this isn't. In the God-blessed United States of Murica, This (NSFW) would never happen.

According to the new city bylaw, the only two people in this picture who could have been be arrested are the two guys in lucha libre masks in the middle (because they're hiding their face)
 
2012-05-24 04:20:05 PM

Mr.Tangent: This is awesome.

Still not sure why those students in Quebec are so worked up about tuition though. If having the lowest average tuition in Canada is cause for a riot then Ontario students should be ransacking queens park and taking hostages.


Because the current PM is trying to undo 40 years of political opportunism in 5 7 years. If university tuition have been allowed to follow the inflation rate, none of this would have happened, but all the governments since the 80s have tried to seduce young voters with promisses of frozen rates.

/Also because he's a corrupt SOB and all kinds of other groups have now tacked onto the protests and will not stop until he either resigns, or loses the elections that he must call in the next year.
 
2012-05-24 04:23:18 PM
Awesome pic, but I live in San Francisco. Around here we call scenes like that "a day that ends in Y"...
 
2012-05-24 04:35:49 PM
I have no idea what this law is, but the response is fantastic, so here's a bunny with a pancake on its head.

i295.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-24 04:36:15 PM
Loi 78 is ridiculous.

Mr.Tangent: Still not sure why those students in Quebec are so worked up about tuition though. If having the lowest average tuition in Canada is cause for a riot then Ontario students should be ransacking queens park and taking hostages.


Québec's tuition used to be much lower and in the province it is considered something like health care - should be universally available and very low cost. Québec has typically operated on the European model of widely publicly accessible higher education. The protests are not just about tuition, though; they are partially about the incredible debt load for Canadian youth, something which Ontario students in particular should have been protesting about long ago. I'm not sure why we're comparing a terrible situation in Québec to an extremely unmanageable situation in Ontario, though. Québecers themselves compare it to European countries like France where university tuition costs well under 1000 Euros. The rest of Canada's situation is extremely irrelevant here.

It's also a protest against the Premier, Jean Charest, and Charest specificially. Charest's incompetent right-wing government has been in power for nearly a decade, and under Charest every element of Québec society has been crumbling, down to the roads beneath people's feet. I recently read a report that in Montreal, it takes 21 hours to get a bed in an ER, for example. Québec is disastrously mismanaged. And as an example of this, Charest's responses to the student strikes have basically consisted of throwing oil on the fire and then throwing more oil on the fire, and then attempting to ban fire. This could have been settled easily, weeks ago, if the student demos hadn't become a flashpoint on Charest's leadership. To make matters worse for Charest (who deserves no sympathy) a corruption inquiry on the construction industry which will likely implicate his party in receiving donations from mafia people just kicked off in Montréal. To make matters worse for Québecers it's not like the Parti Québecois are any bloody better. So what we really have here is a popular outrage against a really rage-worthy situation for young adults, in an extremely moribund political system. It concerns me greatly that there is no federalist alternative to Charest.
 
2012-05-24 04:45:06 PM

bobbette: Loi 78 is ridiculous.

Mr.Tangent: Still not sure why those students in Quebec are so worked up about tuition though. If having the lowest average tuition in Canada is cause for a riot then Ontario students should be ransacking queens park and taking hostages.

Québec's tuition used to be much lower and in the province it is considered something like health care - should be universally available and very low cost. Québec has typically operated on the European model of widely publicly accessible higher education. The protests are not just about tuition, though; they are partially about the incredible debt load for Canadian youth, something which Ontario students in particular should have been protesting about long ago. I'm not sure why we're comparing a terrible situation in Québec to an extremely unmanageable situation in Ontario, though. Québecers themselves compare it to European countries like France where university tuition costs well under 1000 Euros. The rest of Canada's situation is extremely irrelevant here.

It's also a protest against the Premier, Jean Charest, and Charest specificially. Charest's incompetent right-wing government has been in power for nearly a decade, and under Charest every element of Québec society has been crumbling, down to the roads beneath people's feet. I recently read a report that in Montreal, it takes 21 hours to get a bed in an ER, for example. Québec is disastrously mismanaged. And as an example of this, Charest's responses to the student strikes have basically consisted of throwing oil on the fire and then throwing more oil on the fire, and then attempting to ban fire. This could have been settled easily, weeks ago, if the student demos hadn't become a flashpoint on Charest's leadership. To make matters worse for Charest (who deserves no sympathy) a corruption inquiry on the construction industry which will likely implicate his party in receiving donations from mafia people just kicked off in Montréal. To make mat ...


As a Yankee watching this, I don't agree that the rate increase is that ridiculous (it's much worse here in the states), but I do agree that the current provincial government in Quebec is beyond incompetent and corrupt and deserves to be protested for that alone.

But like you said, the alternatives are that much worst. Until the Liberals get their heads out of their asses, I don't think much will change in Quebec.
 
2012-05-24 04:47:42 PM

Mrtraveler01: Until the Liberals get their heads out of their asses, I don't think much will change in Quebec.


FTFM

I don't know why I thought Charest was part of the Conservative Party.

/blushes in embarassment
 
2012-05-24 04:51:02 PM
Actually, I amend my previous post. Loi 78 is not ridiculous. It's a violation of section 2(c) of Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms and as such, ought to be opposed by every Canadian.

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;

(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

(d) freedom of association.


I haven't heard a single lawyer or justice or bar association comment on this without opposing Loi 78's restrictions on section 2(c) vehemently. It will be thrown out on a court challenge. It is blatantly unconstitutional.

This is how Charest's government was trying to defend violating Québecers' charter rights yesterday:
At a news conference, [Public Security Minister] Dutil defended the two sections of Bill 78 that are under the jurisdiction of his Public Safety Department, arguing it's entirely reasonable for protesters to supply the authorities with their demonstration route in advance of a protest. He cited Toronto, New York, France, Spain and Geneva, Switzerland as examples of places with similar regulations. [Montreal Gazette]

Look you guys, people have fewer rights elsewhere. Therefore, violating the constitution is okay! We don't need a Charter when we can compare ourselves to SWITZERLAND! In the future, just ask yourself, "Is this cool in Switzerland?" and that will be our new Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
 
2012-05-24 04:55:32 PM

Mrtraveler01: Mrtraveler01: Until the Liberals get their heads out of their asses, I don't think much will change in Quebec.

FTFM

I don't know why I thought Charest was part of the Conservative Party.

/blushes in embarassment


He used to be a Progressive Conservative. He basically is a Conservative, he's just not one of the Reform-influenced Conservatives.

The word "Liberal" in Québec provincial politics basically involves everyone centrist to right-wing who is a federalist.
 
2012-05-24 04:58:23 PM
LOL this is so true

During the G20 in Toronto the RCMP Riot Squad only arrested 7 people --- 2 of them Toronto police undercovers
 
2012-05-24 04:58:52 PM

bobbette: Actually, I amend my previous post. Loi 78 is not ridiculous. It's a violation of section 2(c) of Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms and as such, ought to be opposed by every Canadian.

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;

(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

(d) freedom of association.

I haven't heard a single lawyer or justice or bar association comment on this without opposing Loi 78's restrictions on section 2(c) vehemently. It will be thrown out on a court challenge. It is blatantly unconstitutional.

This is how Charest's government was trying to defend violating Québecers' charter rights yesterday:
At a news conference, [Public Security Minister] Dutil defended the two sections of Bill 78 that are under the jurisdiction of his Public Safety Department, arguing it's entirely reasonable for protesters to supply the authorities with their demonstration route in advance of a protest. He cited Toronto, New York, France, Spain and Geneva, Switzerland as examples of places with similar regulations. [Montreal Gazette]

Look you guys, people have fewer rights elsewhere. Therefore, violating the constitution is okay! We don't need a Charter when we can compare ourselves to SWITZERLAND! In the future, just ask yourself, "Is this cool in Switzerland?" and that will be our new Charter of Rights and Freedoms.




What's freedom of association and freedom of conscience?
 
2012-05-24 05:09:17 PM

bobbette: Loi 78 is ridiculous.

Mr.Tangent: Still not sure why those students in Quebec are so worked up about tuition though. If having the lowest average tuition in Canada is cause for a riot then Ontario students should be ransacking queens park and taking hostages.

Québec's tuition used to be much lower and in the province it is considered something like health care - should be universally available and very low cost. Québec has typically operated on the European model of widely publicly accessible higher education. The protests are not just about tuition, though; they are partially about the incredible debt load for Canadian youth, something which Ontario students in particular should have been protesting about long ago. I'm not sure why we're comparing a terrible situation in Québec to an extremely unmanageable situation in Ontario, though. Québecers themselves compare it to European countries like France where university tuition costs well under 1000 Euros. The rest of Canada's situation is extremely irrelevant here.

It's also a protest against the Premier, Jean Charest, and Charest specificially. Charest's incompetent right-wing government has been in power for nearly a decade, and under Charest every element of Québec society has been crumbling, down to the roads beneath people's feet. I recently read a report that in Montreal, it takes 21 hours to get a bed in an ER, for example. Québec is disastrously mismanaged. And as an example of this, Charest's responses to the student strikes have basically consisted of throwing oil on the fire and then throwing more oil on the fire, and then attempting to ban fire. This could have been settled easily, weeks ago, if the student demos hadn't become a flashpoint on Charest's leadership. To make matters worse for Charest (who deserves no sympathy) a corruption inquiry on the construction industry which will likely implicate his party in receiving donations from mafia people just kicked off in Montréal. To make mat ...


Yeah, I may agree with you on the law but the amount of complaining over the tuition increase is insane and the conduct of the protesters is at best terrible. What gives them the right to block access to classes when the students have gone to court and obtained a court order to restart their classes? What gives them the right to enter a school in session and disrupt the classes?

What happens if the tuition doesn't go up? Who pays for it? Quebec currently receives somewhere around $7.6 billion per year in equalization payments and they don't have a balanced budget. Who pays?

They say they'll pay when they graduate and pay taxes, I don't buy it. First of all, in order to fully fund post-secondary education taxes will need to be increased but the students say that's fine, they'll put the money back in the system once they're working.

So that means that people who don't go to university will be subsidizing post-secondary education more than they currently are? I can easily see how these protesters think that's fair but I sure as hell don't. I'll be going to flight school in the fall/winter and the government pays for 0% of my estimated $70,000 bill. Why should we punish people who go into trades or other industries that don't require post-secondary education by forcing them to pay even more in taxes just to further subsidize a bunch of complaining Quebec students?

Just hurry up and leave already.
 
2012-05-24 05:11:32 PM
Oh, and yeah, that page is wrong about the number. It was originally 10 people but it was increased to 50. The police are quite quickly declaring the protests illegal but they allow them to continue as long as they remain peaceful which they normally do for the first few hours, then people start throwing things or lighting fires and everyone's fun gets ruined.
 
2012-05-24 05:13:49 PM

bobbette: Mrtraveler01: Mrtraveler01: Until the Liberals get their heads out of their asses, I don't think much will change in Quebec.

FTFM

I don't know why I thought Charest was part of the Conservative Party.

/blushes in embarassment

He used to be a Progressive Conservative. He basically is a Conservative, he's just not one of the Reform-influenced Conservatives.

The word "Liberal" in Québec provincial politics basically involves everyone centrist to right-wing who is a federalist.


Yeah I knew Quebec politics differed from the rest of Canada and I think that's what threw me off.
 
2012-05-24 05:16:30 PM

Mrtraveler01: bobbette: Mrtraveler01: Mrtraveler01: Until the Liberals get their heads out of their asses, I don't think much will change in Quebec.

FTFM

I don't know why I thought Charest was part of the Conservative Party.

/blushes in embarassment

He used to be a Progressive Conservative. He basically is a Conservative, he's just not one of the Reform-influenced Conservatives.

The word "Liberal" in Québec provincial politics basically involves everyone centrist to right-wing who is a federalist.

Yeah I knew Quebec politics differed from the rest of Canada and I think that's what threw me off.


Provincial parties are strange, it seems that the Provincial Liberals are right wingers but the Federal Liberals are left wing.
 
2012-05-24 05:23:10 PM

change1211: Oh, and yeah, that page is wrong about the number. It was originally 10 people but it was increased to 50. The police are quite quickly declaring the protests illegal but they allow them to continue as long as they remain peaceful which they normally do for the first few hours, then people start throwing things or lighting fires and everyone's fun gets ruined.


Sounds like Stanley Cup time. Amiright?
 
2012-05-24 05:24:26 PM

change1211: I'll be going to flight school in the fall/winter and the government pays for 0% of my estimated $70,000 bill.


I think that's farked up. Trades ought to be subsidized particularly given skills shortages.

Also, "just hurry up and leave already"? What is this BS? Who built our farking country? To a large extent it was Québecers. And also, I'm a Vancouverite.
 
2012-05-24 05:39:21 PM

bobbette: change1211: I'll be going to flight school in the fall/winter and the government pays for 0% of my estimated $70,000 bill.

I think that's farked up. Trades ought to be subsidized particularly given skills shortages.

Also, "just hurry up and leave already"? What is this BS? Who built our farking country? To a large extent it was Québecers. And also, I'm a Vancouverite.


Hah, sorry about the miscommunication, I was telling Quebec to leave, not you. I don't actually want Quebec to leave but I get pretty tired of hearing them complain so bitterly about the rest of Canada while accepting a large amount of federal money.

Also, I agree with subsidizing trade school but I'm not sure how well it would work helping people pay for flight school, the cost barrier (especially for helicopters) helps prevent the industry from being flooded with people. I think it's more the principle of it, why should their education be free for them when others have to pay?
 
2012-05-24 05:51:13 PM
A farking public meetings law? I knew they were French. I didn't know they had a government so shiatty they wanted to bring back the repressive measures of the Bourbon Restoration.
 
2012-05-24 05:52:51 PM
So, in Canada the Chamber of Commerce has a sense of humor and trolls the government over stupid laws. In the US, they own the government and use ALEC to write horrible legislation like this.

Can we trade?

/ Or just give me a work visa, and I'll moved to Vancouver.
 
2012-05-24 05:53:27 PM

bobbette: change1211: I'll be going to flight school in the fall/winter and the government pays for 0% of my estimated $70,000 bill.

I think that's farked up. Trades ought to be subsidized particularly given skills shortages.

Also, "just hurry up and leave already"? What is this BS? Who built our farking country? To a large extent it was Québecers. And also, I'm a Vancouverite.


It's a knee jerk reaction to hearing the word Quebec. I'm in Toronto, and this is what I've come to understand about the Quebec hate, expecially in Ontario. They aren't that bad as you point out.

Although, those Quebecers who go apeshiat over you asking them for a cup of coffee in English need to DIAF. I've had it happen to me, seriously.

/I just helped move my office from West Pender street over to Georgia, I loved Vancouver and whistler. Wish I had gone in the summer though.
 
2012-05-24 05:56:44 PM
Draconian laws are awesome! The best part is that they are 1000 times harder to get rid than to implement. I look forward to all kinds of news laws being put into place here in Canada, in what amounts to knee-jerk reactionary measures to social discontent
 
2012-05-24 05:58:16 PM

change1211: Also, I agree with subsidizing trade school but I'm not sure how well it would work helping people pay for flight school, the cost barrier (especially for helicopters) helps prevent the industry from being flooded with people. I think it's more the principle of it, why should their education be free for them when others have to pay?


You could apply this to any social program. Why should I pay for seniors' pensions? Or even better, why should I pay for the health care of people who don't live a healthy lifestyle? To date, the amount I have taken out of the health care system is probably several hundred dollars with the price of doctor's visits included. Should I be paying for some fatass with the beetus in Ontario, which also receives equalization payments despite being our largest province?

The answer is yes, because it's beneficial to society as a whole. It's beneficial for us to not cripple students with debt and ensure that only the well-off go to school. It's beneficial to make education widely accessible instead of moving it out of reach and creating more severe class divisions like you see in the United States. A knowledge economy is critical to Québec's future in particular. Do we want them to stop receiving equalization payments? Then we need Québec to be successful.
 
2012-05-24 06:06:42 PM

Lego_Addict: Although, those Quebecers who go apeshiat over you asking them for a cup of coffee in English need to DIAF. I've had it happen to me, seriously.


Oh, me too. It depends where you are though. You know, if someone came up to you and started asking you questions in French with the assumption that you speak French perfectly (assuming you don't), wouldn't you react like "WTF is going on here?" The majority of Quebecers actually aren't bilingual. And bilingualism is concentrated in Montréal.

If you're in downtown bloody Montréal and you react poorly to being asked for coffee in English though... yes. DIAF. Although there is a chain of coffee places in Montréal that exclusively hire people who speak almost no English and I suspect 99% of the "someone was an asshole to me about coffee" things come from Presse Café experiences. It's kind of like how Blenz only seems to hire very friendly but totally beginner ESL people in Vancouver...
 
2012-05-24 06:09:12 PM

change1211: Also, I agree with subsidizing trade school but I'm not sure how well it would work helping people pay for flight school, the cost barrier (especially for helicopters) helps prevent the industry from being flooded with people.


It's only marginally effective as is; not many people want to spend 70k on what ammounts to a specialized vocational education, but we don't need many new pilots each year.

Doesn't help that various provincial governments have been subsidizing a some schools for a couple decades... We really don't need pilots enough to justify a couple hundred taxpayer-funded commercial pilots every year.

/good luck with your training. CPL time-building is the most fun you'll have in the whole process.
 
2012-05-24 06:28:26 PM

HellRaisingHoosier: What's freedom of association and freedom of conscience?


Freedom of association is the right to form organized groups like political parties, unions and lobbying groups.

Freedom of conscience is the right to hold an opinion independent of others' viewpoints. It's a corollary of freedom of speech, but not quite the same thing.
 
2012-05-24 06:32:01 PM

bobbette: change1211: Also, I agree with subsidizing trade school but I'm not sure how well it would work helping people pay for flight school, the cost barrier (especially for helicopters) helps prevent the industry from being flooded with people. I think it's more the principle of it, why should their education be free for them when others have to pay?

You could apply this to any social program. Why should I pay for seniors' pensions? Or even better, why should I pay for the health care of people who don't live a healthy lifestyle? To date, the amount I have taken out of the health care system is probably several hundred dollars with the price of doctor's visits included. Should I be paying for some fatass with the beetus in Ontario, which also receives equalization payments despite being our largest province?

The answer is yes, because it's beneficial to society as a whole. It's beneficial for us to not cripple students with debt and ensure that only the well-off go to school. It's beneficial to make education widely accessible instead of moving it out of reach and creating more severe class divisions like you see in the United States. A knowledge economy is critical to Québec's future in particular. Do we want them to stop receiving equalization payments? Then we need Québec to be successful.


Hmm, I'm not sure how much I can agree with your first paragraph. In theory I will be taking money from the pension program so that does directly benefit me. As for health care, it's a basic human right and I'm very happy to pay higher taxes so we can keep our population alive. As for the fatass comment, I think we should be promoting nutritional awareness as a part of our health care system, it will pay for itself many times over by preventing weight related illnesses.

I'm not sure if the tuition increases will reduce the accessibility of post-secondary school in Quebec, it doesn't seem to be having the same effect in the rest of Canada. I don't think we should allow it to become too similar to America though, school should never cost $20,000-$40,000 per year. You have me on the link between Quebec's success and equalization payments though, that's a good point.

ordinarysteve: Draconian laws are awesome! The best part is that they are 1000 times harder to get rid than to implement. I look forward to all kinds of news laws being put into place here in Canada, in what amounts to knee-jerk reactionary measures to social discontent


It expires in just over a year.

costermonger: change1211: Also, I agree with subsidizing trade school but I'm not sure how well it would work helping people pay for flight school, the cost barrier (especially for helicopters) helps prevent the industry from being flooded with people.

It's only marginally effective as is; not many people want to spend 70k on what ammounts to a specialized vocational education, but we don't need many new pilots each year.

Doesn't help that various provincial governments have been subsidizing a some schools for a couple decades... We really don't need pilots enough to justify a couple hundred taxpayer-funded commercial pilots every year.

/good luck with your training. CPL time-building is the most fun you'll have in the whole process.


You're bang on, I didn't intend to imply that aviation training should be publicly funded, the industry simply can't support that many new pilots. Also, I can't wait to get started, I'm thinking about getting a whole bunch of fixed wing cross country and get my single engine IFR rating done before I start the helicopter training so I can pick the helicopter IFR rating right away.
 
2012-05-24 06:33:44 PM
OWS, I think I found your new way to get headlines...

/Seriously, why has OWS not released a statement to this effect yet?
 
2012-05-24 06:34:16 PM

bobbette: It's kind of like how Blenz only seems to hire very friendly but totally beginner ESL people in Vancouver...


Yuwaaahroofacreee?

I beg your pardon?

YU WAAAAH ROOOFA CREEE?

Ummmm.....I.....

CREEE! YU WAAAAH ME LEAVE ROOOOFA CREEE?

Oh. No. I don't take cream. Fill it, thanks.

/true blenz @ hastings st & richards dialogue
 
2012-05-24 06:38:28 PM
change1211: It expires in just over a year.
Well then, it looks like my whole mini-rant is irrelevant. I will just sit back and let the adults discuss :)
 
2012-05-24 06:50:30 PM

bobbette: Lego_Addict: Although, those Quebecers who go apeshiat over you asking them for a cup of coffee in English need to DIAF. I've had it happen to me, seriously.

Oh, me too. It depends where you are though. You know, if someone came up to you and started asking you questions in French with the assumption that you speak French perfectly (assuming you don't), wouldn't you react like "WTF is going on here?" The majority of Quebecers actually aren't bilingual. And bilingualism is concentrated in Montréal.

If you're in downtown bloody Montréal and you react poorly to being asked for coffee in English though... yes. DIAF. Although there is a chain of coffee places in Montréal that exclusively hire people who speak almost no English and I suspect 99% of the "someone was an asshole to me about coffee" things come from Presse Café experiences. It's kind of like how Blenz only seems to hire very friendly but totally beginner ESL people in Vancouver...



Yep, downtown Montreal and at a really busy coffee shop, don't remember the name of it but I don't think it was a chain. I'll admit my French isn't as good as it should be after 9 years of French Class but all I said was something like medium black please. Anyways, she started swearing and probably calling me all kinds of names and moved on to a French customer without serving me....I left.

As you say, you don't expect that in Montreal. I think the whole bilingual debate is just messed up, the impact the English language has/would have on the French language is overblown. They are a tight nit group, English would not dominate French in Quebec no matter the advantages/disadvantages either of them have. It was a political hot-topic used by politicians in Quebec to get re-elected. At least that's my opinion.

Ok, went off topic there.
Quebec police are known for underhanded tactics at protests. There are lot's of YouTube videos showing them using plainclothes as agent provacateurs and please note the intensity of protests in Montreal compared to the rest of the Canada. Don't factor in G20 as that attracted protestors from all over the world to Toronto.
 
2012-05-24 07:30:43 PM
Apparently the students on strike are calling for everyone to go outside in a half an hour (8 EST) and bang on pots and pans.
 
2012-05-24 07:32:14 PM
CSB/

In college I had a chance to visit with some of the political activists who were involved in the Chicago Seven Trial. When they realized that the FBI was following them wherever they went, some of them decided to economize and simply asked the agents to give them rides where they needed to go. Some of them actually complied.
 
2012-05-24 07:56:10 PM

Gough: CSB/

In college I had a chance to visit with some of the political activists who were involved in the Chicago Seven Trial. When they realized that the FBI was following them wherever they went, some of them decided to economize and simply asked the agents to give them rides where they needed to go. Some of them actually complied.


During the G-20 the police infiltrated a number of anarchist groups , One undercover was known as the den mother because she drove everyone everywhere , feed them and clothed them and paid for everything ,, another undercover in another group was outed because doing the samething they noticed he was collecting receipts.

Third undercover that I heard of that was outed and asked to leave the group was known as "The Mad Bomber" because his answer to everything was to plant bombs . The Toronto group was looking for a way to disrupt things , get the police running everywhere , get on TV sitting around discussing a Flash mob on the subway , stop the train ,, chant for a minute then disperse -- Mad bomber -- "And plant Bombs" , or to release thousands of rubber ducks from the Toronto island -- Mad Bomber -- "And put bombs in them !!"
 
2012-05-24 08:14:57 PM

Magic_Button: Gough: CSB/

In college I had a chance to visit with some of the political activists who were involved in the Chicago Seven Trial. When they realized that the FBI was following them wherever they went, some of them decided to economize and simply asked the agents to give them rides where they needed to go. Some of them actually complied.

During the G-20 the police infiltrated a number of anarchist groups , One undercover was known as the den mother because she drove everyone everywhere , feed them and clothed them and paid for everything ,, another undercover in another group was outed because doing the samething they noticed he was collecting receipts.

Third undercover that I heard of that was outed and asked to leave the group was known as "The Mad Bomber" because his answer to everything was to plant bombs . The Toronto group was looking for a way to disrupt things , get the police running everywhere , get on TV sitting around discussing a Flash mob on the subway , stop the train ,, chant for a minute then disperse -- Mad bomber -- "And plant Bombs" , or to release thousands of rubber ducks from the Toronto island -- Mad Bomber -- "And put bombs in them !!"


The second guy reminded me of a book I read about the Israeli response to the terrorist attack during Munich Olympic Games. The guy the book focused on went through Mossad training and said the easiest way to spot a Mossad officer was to look for people chasing after their receipts.
 
2012-05-24 08:32:53 PM
I'm not going to defend the SQ's use of undercover agents, but in the case of the Youtube videos you're thinking of, their goal was to get the protesters to do something stupid, in order to have an excuse to call it an illegal protest (and get these ungodly unionists out of the view of George Bush and Vincente Fox).

In this case, by refusing to give their intended routes to the cops in advance, the protest is declared illegal from the start, so they don't even need to use agents provocateurs.
 
2012-05-24 08:34:51 PM
So... If you comply with the law but only invite a known cadre, how do they sneak in plainclothes cops?

Double down on it, what if you distribute in-group identification prior to an event. Then the plainclothes cop shows up but sticks out. Something as simple as a specific colored ribbon that's never the same for two events.

Anyhow, groups holding public events aren't the threat. Groups holding private meetings aren't much of a threat either. It's the tetrahedral cell organizations you need to worry about.

/Paging Adam Selene.
 
2012-05-24 08:46:39 PM
RanDomino, they've been doing that for two nights, now. It apparently comes from Argentian in the 70s, when any group of more than 4 was considered illegal. People would all bang pots and pans in their window - all by themselves.
 
2012-05-24 08:55:22 PM

Flab: RanDomino, they've been doing that for two nights, now. It apparently comes from Argentian in the 70s, when any group of more than 4 was considered illegal. People would all bang pots and pans in their window - all by themselves.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacerolazo
That's a cool protesting tactic, I've never heard of that before.
 
2012-05-24 08:55:48 PM
wildcardjack, the goal was to force student unions to warn police in advance of their protests, but unfortunately, the way the law is written, a football team going to dinner to celebrate a victory could run afoul of the law.
 
2012-05-24 09:07:14 PM

Flab: wildcardjack, the goal was to force student unions to warn police in advance of their protests, but unfortunately, the way the law is written, a football team going to dinner to celebrate a victory could run afoul of the law.


It would appear the police are exercising a pretty good amount of restraint when it comes to that, the protests are being declared illegal but are tolerated until something goes wrong so it seems unlikely that the law would be used in the instance you provided.
 
2012-05-24 09:15:04 PM
I agree, the Montreal police chief has been quite clear that his troops would exercice restraint, but if incidents like the mercedes driver who decided to take matters in his own hands and drove in the crowd start to appear more frequently, the cops might have to start arresting more people "for their own good".
 
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