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(Salon)   Former staffer for Ronald Reagan and National Review writer breaks up with the GOP because of its extreme right hate-mongers, writes about it   (salon.com) divider line 159
    More: Cool, National Review, human beings, Ronald Reagan, GOP, Florida Republican, Air America, Carl Bernstein, Edmund Burke  
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5612 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 May 2012 at 10:09 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-24 09:59:46 AM  
I started reading that intending to quickly skim and then summarize with some sort of snarky comment. But I ended up reading the whole thing and decided that all I'll say about it is that you should, too.
 
2012-05-24 10:08:29 AM  
Fark Reagan that tax raising RINO.
 
2012-05-24 10:11:07 AM  

Pocket Ninja: I started reading that intending to quickly skim and then summarize with some sort of snarky comment. But I ended up reading the whole thing and decided that all I'll say about it is that you should, too.


And risk turning into a RINO myself due to evil libtard magic? No thanks, pal.

/If you're willing to post serious about it, that's all the recommendation I need.
 
2012-05-24 10:13:31 AM  
So vote Democrat!
 
2012-05-24 10:14:39 AM  

born_yesterday: Pocket Ninja: I started reading that intending to quickly skim and then summarize with some sort of snarky comment. But I ended up reading the whole thing and decided that all I'll say about it is that you should, too.

And risk turning into a RINO myself due to evil libtard magic? No thanks, pal.

/If you're willing to post serious about it, that's all the recommendation I need.


At least someone picked up the slack. Balance has been maintained.

/only the trollatar can bring balance to the world
 
2012-05-24 10:14:53 AM  
img.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-24 10:15:56 AM  
Several interesting links in TFA but I found this the funniest/most painful:
Norquist: cutting a government subsidy is actually a tax hike

What happens when words don't mean anything anymore and you can just say anything? How is dialogue possible?
 
2012-05-24 10:17:17 AM  
Michael Fumento is an attorney, author, journalist and former paratrooper who has written for National Review, The Weekly Standard, Commentary, The American Spectator, Human Events, Forbes, Forbes.com, Reason, Policy Review, The Spectator (London), The Sunday Times of London, The Wall Street Journal op-ed page and many other publications.

Great piece. Too bad it isn't in one of those publications. The people who need to read it will never see it, I fear.
 
2012-05-24 10:17:19 AM  
I dunno what to make of these "comming out" editorials. William F Buckley used to blame "crazed negros" with blowing up their own churches. Is that better than the stupid shiat that comes out of Allen West's mouth?

Conservatism has always been about blind reactionarism and hatred. The fact some people lose their taste for it is good, but I fail to see why they try to salvage the legacy in the process.
 
2012-05-24 10:18:45 AM  

hinten: Several interesting links in TFA but I found this the funniest/most painful:
Norquist: cutting a government subsidy is actually a tax hike

What happens when words don't mean anything anymore and you can just say anything? How is dialogue possible?


Not forcing heterosexuals to be gay will cause overpopulation in the U.S.
 
2012-05-24 10:20:17 AM  
"I worked for Reagan and wrote for National Review. But the new hysterical right cares nothing for truth or dignity"

Iran-Contra

Honduran death squads

Saddam Hussein

All brought to you courtesy of the Reagan administration and its consideration for truth and dignity.
 
2012-05-24 10:22:24 AM  
The REAL RINO's are the bible pounders and tea baggers. The vast majority of what they do is expand government, increase federal legislation over your personal (and sexual) life, and will reject fiscally conservative ideas if they are proposed by the wrong party(color).

More GOP leaders need to spank their whiny children until they learn to play nice with others. If they don't that evil liberal agenda conspiracy will turn into a self fulfilling prophecy caused by their actions.
 
2012-05-24 10:25:37 AM  
Not sure if Will Smith stole the line, but it was one of the few takeaways from the made-for-FX movie 'I, Robot':

"Does being the last sane man on the planet make you crazy? 'Cause if it does, maybe I am."

Seems apt given the current circumstances of the right, not unlike Winston looking around during Big Brother's morning report and wondering Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
 
2012-05-24 10:27:22 AM  

DarnoKonrad: I dunno what to make of these "comming out" editorials. William F Buckley used to blame "crazed negros" with blowing up their own churches. Is that better than the stupid shiat that comes out of Allen West's mouth?

Conservatism has always been about blind reactionarism and hatred. The fact some people lose their taste for it is good, but I fail to see why they try to salvage the legacy in the process.


While much of what passes for conservatism today is blindly reactionary and hateful, that's a pretty broad brush there. I'm quite liberal (usually) but seriously, just writing off an entire side of the political spectrum is exactly what a large part of the problem is. It's a main problem with the popular conservative movement today, and I'm not going to contribute to it being representative of the left.

I agree with PocketNinja; it was actually a rather interesting article that should be more broadly read. And just because it's about the problems with the right doesn't mean there are no lessons for the left.

/Being serious is boring. I know.
 
2012-05-24 10:29:17 AM  

TsarTom: Michael Fumento is an attorney, author, journalist and former paratrooper who has written for National Review, The Weekly Standard, Commentary, The American Spectator, Human Events, Forbes, Forbes.com, Reason, Policy Review, The Spectator (London), The Sunday Times of London, The Wall Street Journal op-ed page and many other publications.

Great piece. Too bad it isn't in one of those publications. The people who need to read it will never see it, I fear.


They would immediately decry it as a piece written by a liberal plant, or they'd decry him as a RINO who never was a True Republican. Possibly both.

It would not surprise me one bit if by the end of the month, WSJ and the other NewsCorp websites purge all material written by Fumento from their websites (if they've not done so already) and say that he's NEVER written anything for them.

He's probably on the GOP's personae non grata list by now and will most likely be denied entry into the convention in Tampa.
 
2012-05-24 10:29:31 AM  
Great article.

Sad thing here is that the people who need to read this the most likely never will.

Hi-Ho.

So it goes.
 
2012-05-24 10:30:11 AM  
FTFA: "But, based on my own conversations with liberals, I think - nay, I know - that if more of these allegedly godless, treasonous people understood real conservatism a lot would embrace many conservative positions."

Ah, a member of the High Church of Andrew Sullivan (P.B.U.H.), who teaches us that "conservative" is synonymous with "good", no matter the actual common use or definition of language.
 
2012-05-24 10:31:06 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Read it.
 
2012-05-24 10:32:12 AM  

Pocket Ninja: I started reading that intending to quickly skim and then summarize with some sort of snarky comment. But I ended up reading the whole thing and decided that all I'll say about it is that you should, too.



Holy shiat.

OK, yeah, I'm going to read it for sure now.
 
2012-05-24 10:32:26 AM  
Overall, I thought it was pretty good.

That being said there was a lot of "no true conservative" going on.
 
2012-05-24 10:33:59 AM  

Kibbler: "I worked for Reagan and wrote for National Review. But the new hysterical right cares nothing for truth or dignity"

Iran-Contra

Honduran death squads

Saddam Hussein

All brought to you courtesy of the Reagan administration and its consideration for truth and dignity.


I was honestly a bit surprised that a guy who seems pretty sharp (sharp enough to have seen through the right's echo chamber, anyway) can miss the broad-side of that barn.

Reagan was a good speaker. With no 24-hour news apparatus watching, administrations got away with a crapton. I think Nixon, quite honestly, was undone more by his own hubris and lack of ass-covering than by Woodward/Bernstein's investigative stuff. Without the paper trail and Nixon's willing subordinates (*cough*John Dean*cough*), I don't think that inquiry would have gotten far.

Anyway, all that is to say that Reagan spun his way out of the shiatstorm he deserved. Complicit (and/or ignorant) media, savvy PR guys, and a fawning population (though that might be more effect than cause) meant that Reagan could have done anything up to beheading a woman on national primetime TV (estimated 1984 viewership of Reagan beheading Mrs. Jones: 24,762 people) and still won reelection.

This guy sees through all the bullshiat but Reagan's. The GOP really did a fantastic job beatifying him.
 
2012-05-24 10:34:52 AM  

eiger: Overall, I thought it was pretty good.

That being said there was a lot of "no true conservative" going on.


I think this is inevitable. When you have so many cries of "RINO," the retort is pretty much going to be, "No true conservative."
 
2012-05-24 10:35:08 AM  
So there's an auto-da-fé out there right now with my name on it. Torquemada is holding the torch; the wieners and s'mores are flying off the shelves.

sachhiem.net
 
2012-05-24 10:35:45 AM  

Pocket Ninja: I started reading that intending to quickly skim and then summarize with some sort of snarky comment. But I ended up reading the whole thing and decided that all I'll say about it is that you should, too.


It's an excellent read and pretty much sums up my current disillusionment with the Republican Party I've been registered with for the past 20+ years.
 
2012-05-24 10:35:49 AM  

cabbyman: So vote Democrat!


Seeing as the GOP has ceded the center and center right while solidifying it's position on the far and extreme right, yes.

And Reagan eventually came clean about Iran Contra, which was a big change for those of us that grew up during Watergate.
 
2012-05-24 10:36:11 AM  
I think the article nails it well. But, I think the lack of the ability to reason, debate, discuss issues on both sides or both parties is impossible when ignorant, unreasonable, people refuse to listen to facts.

He's upset with the right wing crazies in the party the same reason I am.
 
2012-05-24 10:36:12 AM  
Unfortunately, the people who most need to take the lessons he describes to heart will do one of two things:

1) They will never read that article, or
2) They will read it and immediately use the Tu quoque fallacy to claim BSABSVR.
 
2012-05-24 10:40:50 AM  
I'm still waiting for the shills to log in and somehow blame all this on liberals.
 
2012-05-24 10:41:31 AM  
"The right didn't create this reservoir of fear, anger and hate. But it has both tapped into it and roiled it. Indeed, the right-wing mass hysteria is what sociologists call a "moral panic." It occurs when a society is undergoing a wrenching transformation. Somebody then comes along and creates a "folk devil" both to provide an explanation for bad conditions, real or imagined, and a target. Kill the devil; eliminate the bad conditions. But the right has no serious incentive to help solve or ameliorate these problems. Indeed, as with the reelection of Obama, it will benefit from their continuation or worsening."
 
2012-05-24 10:42:57 AM  

Dog Welder: Pocket Ninja: I started reading that intending to quickly skim and then summarize with some sort of snarky comment. But I ended up reading the whole thing and decided that all I'll say about it is that you should, too.

It's an excellent read and pretty much sums up my current disillusionment with the Republican Party I've been registered with for the past 20+ years.


You and me both - and I WILL vote for the other side because the one thing I don't want the idiots in charge to be able to say after this election is "well our base stayed home because they didnt like a RINO like Romney."

No, morons, what I don't like is having my party led by a group of anti-education, anti-science mouth breathers who think it's time to turn the clock back to 1890 and pretend the last 120 years never happened.
 
2012-05-24 10:44:20 AM  

eiger: Overall, I thought it was pretty good.

That being said there was a lot of "no true conservative" going on.


That was a good piece, I agree, although yes, there was plenty of hand-wringing. Also, there was a little bit of "we didn't start the fire" thrown in there, but at least he owned up to the fact that the new right is taking it to new depths.

But "breaks up with GOP" is not exactly an accurate representation of where he seems to stand. I don't think this guy is going to vote Obama any time soon. He'll still vote Rmoney, but probably for the very reason that the new right is so wary of him: he's a moderate at heart, and would appear willing to at least listen to people from across the aisle (not that he'll do anything for them, but at least he'd be civil).
 
2012-05-24 10:44:22 AM  
Great read.
Sadly after some of what I hear every month makes me think this eserves to be read before every town council meeting in my town. Seriously people WTF does Obama's socialistic/muslim agenda have to do with how much it costs to re-paint the traffic lines on the city roads?
 
2012-05-24 10:44:24 AM  
The writer never addressed the underlying cause of the lunacy coming from the Right. It is the literal equivalent of name-calling when you have nothing compelling to say. The Right has just run out of ideas - the country is tired of fighting over abortion, the gay-issue is a long term loser, we have no real military adversary (just terrorism, which is a tactic anyway), and tax-cuts have dropped us to record low levels and the people who voted for them aren't any richer. The Right is just out of ideas, so all they have left is fear and loathing.

And yes, the last time this happened WAS before the Civil War.
 
2012-05-24 10:45:31 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Kibbler: "I worked for Reagan and wrote for National Review. But the new hysterical right cares nothing for truth or dignity"

Iran-Contra

Honduran death squads

Saddam Hussein

All brought to you courtesy of the Reagan administration and its consideration for truth and dignity.

I was honestly a bit surprised that a guy who seems pretty sharp (sharp enough to have seen through the right's echo chamber, anyway) can miss the broad-side of that barn.

Reagan was a good speaker. With no 24-hour news apparatus watching, administrations got away with a crapton. I think Nixon, quite honestly, was undone more by his own hubris and lack of ass-covering than by Woodward/Bernstein's investigative stuff. Without the paper trail and Nixon's willing subordinates (*cough*John Dean*cough*), I don't think that inquiry would have gotten far.

Anyway, all that is to say that Reagan spun his way out of the shiatstorm he deserved. Complicit (and/or ignorant) media, savvy PR guys, and a fawning population (though that might be more effect than cause) meant that Reagan could have done anything up to beheading a woman on national primetime TV (estimated 1984 viewership of Reagan beheading Mrs. Jones: 24,762 people) and still won reelection.

This guy sees through all the bullshiat but Reagan's. The GOP really did a fantastic job beatifying him.


I used to think that the 24-hour news cycle would be good for democracy. It would bring even more transparency. I didn't foresee that people don't want that much information. The want their biases to be confirmed, and they want to know who sang what on American Idol.
 
2012-05-24 10:49:52 AM  
I have a lot of problems with the specific citations this gentleman uses to back up his entirely cogent points. That being said, Fluke never said she wanted free birth control.
 
2012-05-24 10:50:26 AM  

Kibbler: All brought to you courtesy of the Reagan administration and its consideration for truth and dignity.


Compared to Palin, Bachmann, O'Donnell, Santorum, Gingrich and Walker, people like North, Meese, Poindexter and Weinberger are souls of gravitas and restraint.
 
2012-05-24 10:50:32 AM  
The people he defends as the vanguards of old conservatism were all pieces of shiat too, and everything happening now is their legacy.

fark him.
 
2012-05-24 10:51:01 AM  

LockeOak: FTFA: "But, based on my own conversations with liberals, I think - nay, I know - that if more of these allegedly godless, treasonous people understood real conservatism a lot would embrace many conservative positions."

Ah, a member of the High Church of Andrew Sullivan (P.B.U.H.), who teaches us that "conservative" is synonymous with "good", no matter the actual common use or definition of language.


eiger: Overall, I thought it was pretty good.

That being said there was a lot of "no true conservative" going on.


Yeah, that's kind of how I felt too. It's a very well-written article, and it's a nice change of pace to see someone who can separate a message from its delivery method. I would love to have a discussion with the guy, he seems like a highly intelligent individual, even if I don't agree with him on a single issue. But lord, he's got an overly-rosy view on "classical conservatism". His mentality is exactly the one that CREATED the modern right wing.

When you automatically treat the conservative viewpoint as the only real, logical, or possibly correct one, the inevitable conclusion is the idea that any and all failures must be caused by a LACK of conservatism, of not being hard-line enough. By having this mentality and writing about it over so many years, he's been largely responsible for the very problem he's complaining about, and I think he's in denial about that. Clean up your own damn mess, Dr. Frankenstein, you don't get to say it's not your fault just because you couldn't control the creature you created.
 
2012-05-24 10:52:20 AM  
The flag of the Know Nothings:
 
2012-05-24 10:52:49 AM  

Fizpez: Dog Welder: Pocket Ninja: I started reading that intending to quickly skim and then summarize with some sort of snarky comment. But I ended up reading the whole thing and decided that all I'll say about it is that you should, too.

It's an excellent read and pretty much sums up my current disillusionment with the Republican Party I've been registered with for the past 20+ years.

You and me both - and I WILL vote for the other side because the one thing I don't want the idiots in charge to be able to say after this election is "well our base stayed home because they didnt like a RINO like Romney."

No, morons, what I don't like is having my party led by a group of anti-education, anti-science mouth breathers who think it's time to turn the clock back to 18901850 and pretend the last 120160 years never happened.


I'm pretty sure there are many people who want to legalize slavery in America. They're working towards it with discussion of disenfranchising women.
 
2012-05-24 10:53:12 AM  
Take two (now with smaller image):

The flag of the Know Nothings:
www.batr.org
 
2012-05-24 10:53:47 AM  

DarnoKonrad: Conservatism has always been about blind reactionarism and hatred.


Indeed.

Every now and again, a right winger realizes what bastards their fellow conservatives are, and makes a heartfelt "Why can't we be the good guys, like we used to be?" plea - David Frum is another recent example.

The thing they fail to realize is that this isn't new - the total break with reality the current lot display might be, but the American right has always had a nasty streak. When you convince yourself that your opponent is utter evil, it's very easy to see reprehensible actions to stop them as acceptable.
 
2012-05-24 10:56:50 AM  
Incivility is hardly the domain of the new right. American society grows ever coarser. But this is cold comfort. Conservative ideology demands civility of conservatives; demands, yes, self-policing. Let others act as they will, bearing evidence of the shallowness of their positions. It also demands respect for official offices, such as the presidency. When our guy is in office, you give him that modicum of respect - and when your guy is in office, we do the same. The other party is to be referred to as "the loyal opposition," not with words the FCC forbids on the air.

Goddamn right. We've completely lost this self-policing on the Right. It's non-existent.
 
2012-05-24 10:58:50 AM  
I don't mind the right wing vilifying Obama with racist/extremest rhetoric. It means when the next guy comes along, and he's a boring old liberal white guy, it will be impossible for them to get as worked up about it.
 
2012-05-24 10:59:26 AM  
A fantastic read and sums up, better than I ever could have, why I'm so disenchanted with the right wing and republican party I have been a part of since my youth. Everyone on the right should read that.

There's no way they will, and there's no way he won't be demonized, but everyone on the right SHOULD read that.
 
2012-05-24 11:01:35 AM  
"Woe is me!" said the Scotsman.
 
2012-05-24 11:03:29 AM  
"Pity the poor Onion; there's nothing left to satirize."
 
2012-05-24 11:04:14 AM  
I would suggest the GOP folding-up and going back to the Whig party, but everything the Whigs were about are tentpoles in the modern Democratic Party - strong legislature, focused on modernization, knowledge-seeking. Yeah, I just don't know what to do with the GOP. They are just an angry ball of paternalistic white guys and wannabes that just can't come to terms that our society is changing.
 
2012-05-24 11:04:30 AM  
Along the same vein, Scarborough had those "GOP is the problem" op-ed guys on this morning. I didn't get to see the end of the interview, but most of it went like this...

SCARBOROUGH: Both sides are the same, right?

ORNSTEIN and MANN: No, not even close.

SCARBOROUGH: Of course they are.

ORNSTEIN and MANN: No, they're not.

SCARBOROUGH: Yes, they are.

ORNSTEIN and MANN: No, they're not.

SCARBOROUGH: Yes, they are!

ORNSTEIN and MANN: No, the-

SCARBOROUGH: This is my show, dammit!
 
2012-05-24 11:07:48 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: The people he defends as the vanguards of old conservatism were all pieces of shiat too, and everything happening now is their legacy.


Edmund Burke? What did he ever do to you?
 
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