FARK.com: (712364) Texas approves biology textbooks that say nothing about alternatives to evolution

If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

		Texas approves biology textbooks that say nothing about alternatives to evolution (cnn.com)		1032
		More: Hero

• • •

13814 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Nov 2003 at 6:44 PM | Favorite | share:

Share this link:

URL:

http://fark.com/go/712364

Bookmark:

Article Comments close

1032 Comments (+0 »)

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | » | Last | Show all

jrdncastillo		2003-11-06 07:26:31 PM

Yeah, but the guts-holding guy could still whip this guy's ass.

sigpop		2003-11-06 07:26:40 PM

hogan-lol, funny texas reference. does fark have a texas tag? heck, seems like that would be more useful than the florida tag.

You_mean_Im_gonna_stay_this_color		2003-11-06 07:27:00 PM

- I just had this discussion in another board recently.

Someone posted this - And this was all the proof he needed to say evolution was wrong, but this is the way most creationists think i guess:

"Personally, I believe we were created. By what, I do not know. But I think evolution is PURE BULLshiat.

If you believe in evolution, think of this:

* Put every part needed to create a car into a garage
* Walk away

Do you think those parts will EVER "evolve" to form a car, no matter how many BILLIONS of years they were given? fark no they won't! Humans are much more complex than cars, so why in the world would I believe that we "evolved"?

I think we're a science project of some more intelligent life form(s).

What do you think?"

:D

gilly		2003-11-06 07:27:30 PM

Perlguy: I'm pretty sure God doesn't want us all to be stupid. That's why investigate, teach and learn. There's nothing unholy about the truth.

BUrp		2003-11-06 07:27:50 PM

crossbuster

The minute the Texas government got involved, it became political.

Face it: scientists can defend and debate religion all they want, reform it, change it, update it. But when they announce their findings, the scrutiny that comes from the people will be just as religious and political as scientific... after all, even those who accept it have to reconcile it with their beliefs about the cosmos.

Evolution isn't just about science, its science getting involved in the first debate: "why are we here?" Religion, Philosophy, even psychology have made their arguments, this is the biologist's turn to try and answer that great question. Our culture, a product of the enlightenment, tells us to be skeptical of faith and seek truth, but until a definative answer develops (and evolution, while convincing and widely accepted is by no means yet the final word) its far more than a scientific question, and frankly I think the nature of the thread thus far proves it, the arguments have been more about faith (as misguided or real) than about scientific method.

Code_Archeologist		2003-11-06 07:28:09 PM

chipaku I propose that anyone (regardless of their stance on the issue) who says "humans evolved from monkeys" should be forced to sit in the corner with a dunce cap.

Damn right everybody should know that humans evolved from australopithecines.

eternalenigma3		2003-11-06 07:28:09 PM

Enjoy Hell

albo		2003-11-06 07:28:40 PM

my final post before putting my porch monkeys to bed:

If evolution is disproven, abandoned and shunned, and a different scientific theory is the new hotness, i'll be fine with that. Just like i have no problem with thinking that string theory is the way the universe is built instead of the standard model.

But if Christian Creationism is shown to be false and the earth on a turtle is proven to be true, I don't think any christian would abandon his or her faith in the creation in Genesis.

that's the difference between science and religion.

UnknownCactus		2003-11-06 07:28:40 PM

you know what fark needs? a flamewar tag.

this would a be perfect article for it.

kyoryu		2003-11-06 07:28:44 PM

kieran57:
There are only Communists, Nazis and Libritarians.

I'm a Communazitarian.

lordargent		2003-11-06 07:28:55 PM

I do believe in a God. I would personally want them to include a possibility of divine intervention when it comes to evolution.

When I'm reading a ~~Biology~~ Perl book, I don't want to see ~~Creationism~~ Java code.

ChubFrog		2003-11-06 07:29:07 PM

perlguy

Engraved on the Jefferson Memorial in Washington D.C. are these famous words by Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence:

God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His Justice cannot sleep forever.

I was wondering which farktard would bring this up...

The Declaration of Independence is exactly that, a declaration of independence. Not a set of laws. It pre-dates the U.S. Constitution. It can praise Allah for all I care. It has no bearing on U.S. law.

g026r		2003-11-06 07:29:44 PM

Dogbowl

The late, great Bill Hicks.

""I believe God created me in one day" Yeah, looks liked He rushed it."

Venge		2003-11-06 07:29:46 PM

I'm a Libernaziist!

wirthling		2003-11-06 07:30:08 PM

perlguy, a healthy percentage of scientists are christians and nearly all of them want evolution to be taught and for creationism to be left out of the biology classroom. This is not a conspiracy by some humanist cult.

Bukharin		2003-11-06 07:30:28 PM

Damn right everybody should know that humans evolved from australopithecines.

Was that before or after "Java Man?"

I just like saying Javaman!

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo		2003-11-06 07:30:31 PM

God, people, please get over the whole 'But evolution is just a "Theory"' argument. Gettting stuck on semantics just shows you don't have a leg to stand on. Evolution is an accepted scientific fact. Creationism is no more valid than saying we were all created by lightning bugs.

Venge		2003-11-06 07:30:36 PM

D'oh...beaten by kyoryu

wax_on		2003-11-06 07:30:39 PM

It's really only the hard core fundies that don't believe in evolution. They hold that every word in the bible is the literal truth, regardless of the obvious contradictions and will go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify that belief. They also a very loud about proclaiming their beliefs.
On the other hand it seems that the vast majority of Christians see the bible as a collection of stories losely based on history, intended to give a set of guidelines for running your life and a sense of community/satisfaction in life. These people for the most part recognize the difference is purpose between religion and science and don't see a problem with evolution and don't see the point in making a fuss about it.

It's really too bad that such a vocal minority (and tiny minority at that) can influence policy by repeatedly screaming "It's true, it's true. Why? Because I said so and I only need the flimsiest evidence to back that up. Now do what I say."

lordargent		2003-11-06 07:30:46 PM

You_mean_Im_gonna_stay_this_color: Do you think those parts will EVER "evolve" to form a car

And when's the last time you saw cars farking?

tomasso		2003-11-06 07:30:56 PM

There is a common misunderstanding about "the theory of evolution" as opposed to "the scientific fact of evolution".

The fact is that man evolved from other species.

The "theory of evolution" is merely Darwin's specific hypothetical reconstruction of the mechanism by which the evolution occurred (as refined and modified by later scientists)

Darwin's exact mechanism may be wrong. There is an infinite depth of complexity to the issue for future generations to explore, although geneticists are blowing through this data faster than anticipated, given powerful computers and advancements in DNA research.

But if wrong, the theory is only wrong about the precise mechanism, not the fact. The fact is that man is the result of the evolution of species.

Creationism hinges on a specific religious belief held by a group which may be a silent majority in certain geographic areas, but which is a tiny percentage of people in the global picture. It is simply a spooky campfire story to the remaining 80% of the world that either believes an equally unsupportable alternative campfire story or no campfire story at all.

Campfire stories are wonderful for many reasons. Perhaps they even help us to understand the world better than science because they connect more directly to our emotions, but they don't belong in a science textbook.

deSelby		2003-11-06 07:31:12 PM

I didn't read the posts because I don't know how.

1) Anyone claiming to have found evolution's Achilles heel has grossly overstated his claim.
2) A lot of people like the idea of teaching alternatives just out of fairness. Its like all the political correctness conservatives hate. You cant just bring one idea down from real science and another up from pure hope and speculation and equate them in the idea of fairness.
3) Intelligent Design is religion in a sheep-suit.

G2V		2003-11-06 07:31:33 PM

I'm all for teaching any theory in school that has a legitimate scientific basis for belief. Evolution is certainly not proven to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. However, it has significant evidence in its favor.

Creationism has the bible which is simply not a scientifically authoratative text, and a religion that believes in it. Neither of these provides genuine evidence to give logical support to the creationism.

Science classes are about the use of logic to reach conclusions. "Lots of people believe in Creationism, so it might be true" is not logical.

Teaching various "theories" that are simply belief does not aid innovation, it waters down logic and defeats the process.

Teaching various theories with real logic and support behind them does aid innovation. Go with that.

And no, while evolution has not been proven, nor has it been disproven, no matter what your priest or your heart tells you.

BUrp		2003-11-06 07:32:20 PM

Hyernel

Most ignorant post yet

kieran57

Thats a lie. Fark has an extremist bias. There are only Communists, Nazis and Libertarians.

I surrender to the truth. Although I would like to add fascists.

WizardX		2003-11-06 07:32:32 PM

perlguy

And do you believe that people are "calling upon God sincerely" when they attempt to suppress scientific theories and replace them with philosophical ones? To turn the Bible into an implement of political force? (render unto Caesar...)

If you want to talk Psalm 145, go reread the bits at the beginning about God's deeds and "grandeur beyond understanding."

Would seem our current mystification as to the mechanics of evolution go right along with that.

Bukharin		2003-11-06 07:32:36 PM

And when's the last time you saw cars farking?

Backstage at the Rick Ocasik concert.

dethkon		2003-11-06 07:32:37 PM

God forbid that our students get different views on a subject...

God, people, please get over the whole 'But evolution is just a "Theory"' argument. Gettting stuck on semantics just shows you don't have a leg to stand on. Evolution is an accepted scientific fact. Creationism is no more valid than saying we were all created by lightning bugs.

But according to evolution, we did come from lightning bugs!

mailpuppy		2003-11-06 07:33:12 PM

... I'm getting really tired of humanist farktards trying to shove their ignorant theories down everyone's throat.

The Intelligent Design Theory has much more to offer than you may think, and there is plenty of evidence to debunk the evolution theory.

http://www.icr.org/pubs/btg-a/

http://www.creationism.com

This site was particularly interesting - http://www.creationscience.com

I could list a hundred other great sites from all over the world, but ... I doubt you'll even take the time from doing whatever you do, to stop a few moments and consider the fact that you've been lied to your whole lives by the evolution theory.

Flame away.

ChubFrog		2003-11-06 07:33:17 PM

Evolution can be observed. Ask anyone who's been infected with a strain of bacteria that's drug-resistant.

Anagrammer		2003-11-06 07:33:22 PM

spleef420: Darwin's theory that we evolved from apes/monkeys

Hunter_1984		2003-11-06 07:34:11 PM

As wizardX said you can't (dis)prove Creationism. It's a philosphic law which is true or not depending on what you believe. It doesn't contradict evolution. Nowhere did I say that I don't agree with the theory of evolution. Simply put we haven't observed macro evolution.
(simple enough for everyone this time?)

DarthBrooks		2003-11-06 07:34:32 PM

But will the textbooks explain the biology of Ganesh?

matron_patron		2003-11-06 07:34:41 PM

The war is over

Lenny_da_Hog		2003-11-06 07:35:01 PM

And just to make sure, let's go after neurology next. After all, the Bible says we have a soul, but neurology teaches us that our behaviors are determined by electrochemical changes in our very complicated nervous systems.

WHERE'S THE SOUL, DAMMIT!? Just from this soul issue alone, we should be scrutinizing the teachings of sociology, psychology, economics.....

stoatbringer		2003-11-06 07:35:02 PM

There are no alternatives to evolution, it's a fact of nature.

Felgraf		2003-11-06 07:35:13 PM

Wow... already, we've had a post by an idiot saying all Christians should be sterilized/killed.

Good job! I'm sure you're proud of sounding like the fundamentalists that you hate so very much.

TheHumanCannonball		2003-11-06 07:35:27 PM

perlguy

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

That's one of the definitions of the word religion from dictionary.com.

While I don't necessarily agree with the American Humanist Association, they certainly could be thought of as a religion as far as the IRS is concerned.

LincolnLogolas		2003-11-06 07:35:53 PM

I'm all for teachers providing alternatives to the Theory of Evolution, provided that it is something that has been elevated to the status of "Theory", meaning that it has been proven in some way, shape, or form, through evidence. This negates religious ideas of creation, being that they have no evidence of any sort to back them up.

I mean, if someone can come up with an idea for the origins of the species, and back it up with enough evidence to consider it a theory (Creationism is NOT, by definition, a theory) then I'll have no problem with it in public school textbooks. Heck, if Creationism was actually proven in some way, I'd be more than happy to have it taught to kids.

Hammurderer		2003-11-06 07:35:59 PM

lordargent I saw a BMW fark a Ford Ranger today. They produced a cop car and a tow truck.

ChubFrog		2003-11-06 07:36:03 PM

But according to evolution, we did come from lightning bugs!

Another quality graduate of the US school system. Now, go back to school.

albo		2003-11-06 07:36:19 PM

2003-11-06 02003-11-06 07:32:37 PM dethkon
But according to evolution, we did come from lightning bugs!

F in biology. lightning bugs and humans all came from a common ancester. stunned, aren't you?

mandrake		2003-11-06 07:36:26 PM

eternalenigma

WTF?

wirthling		2003-11-06 07:36:49 PM

That's priceless, Anagrammer!

Bukharin		2003-11-06 07:37:36 PM

What is the problem with only teaching science in Biology class and only teaching religion in Social Studies?

DarthBrooks		2003-11-06 07:38:01 PM

But HER FATHER IS THE DISTRICT NEANDERTHAL!

Venge		2003-11-06 07:38:45 PM

Theoretically, if you go back far enough...there is a common ancestor between any two life forms. However, this 'common' ancestor would be very far removed from the other species. The more related two species are...the closer the ancestor, a human and a bug would have a common ancestor, but it would be nothing like a human.

xkilladelphiax		2003-11-06 07:38:53 PM

i learned evolution when i was in grade school... and i went to a CATHOLIC school.

clambam		2003-11-06 07:39:00 PM

I love the "evolution is only a theory" argument. Relativity is only a theory too. I therefore deny the existence of atomic bombs. C'mon, I want to see a chapter added to the physics textbooks explaining how mushroom clouds are figments of our imagination.

Of course there is a perfectly good theory that explains away the fossil record of evolution. It was promoted quite seriously by Louis Gosse, a noted 19th century biologist, in the book Omphalos. The basic question is, did Adam and Eve have a navel (omphalos is Greek for navel)? They weren't born, they were created, so they didn't need navels. On the other hand as the models and perfect types of the human race they must have had navels since all later humans have had them. Now, if God could create Adam and Eve with navels from a birth that never happened, He could have created the Earth with a fossil record of a past that never happened. The logic is absolutely irrefutable, as is so often the case with totally whacko theories. In fact, the Earth could have been created 5 seconds ago with you sitting in front of your computer screen, and there's no way to prove or disprove the possibility.