I'd fire her.

She clearly doesn't need the job.

As long as they have personal/sick days, who cares?

CommieTaoist: I wouldn't mind one of my employees calling in hung-over once, it has happened in fact and I thanked him for his honesty. However, two-days in a row raises all sorts of flags and would cause me to worry about his or her overall maturity and dedication unless something major is happening in their life like death of a family member, divorce, etc.

Finished her last chemo session two weekends ago. Went out with friends to celebrate a little too hard.

Stage 3 cancer survivor here. My work was so great about it. My boss is very cool. Cancer sucks, and has more than just physical side effects. Some days, it's really hard to just deal and be around other people with their petty little problems. "Fark you, I'm dying." She understood that, as did everyone in the company. I will always love this place for the kindness and support they have given me.

That said, I never missed a responsibility, and I didn't take advantage of or milk it. It was really important to me to be there for them as much as they were for me. When I finished treatment and it was evident that I was not going to die, they encouraged me to party myself senseless. And yes, it took more than one day.

Chemo dehydrates you. Going on a bender can sicken you for more than a day unless you go get IV fluids. Plus, she may have done other stuff in celebration. I did. All bets and morals are off with this disease. Now, if that's all she has done, let it go. If she is starting to flake out on you on a regular basis, call her in for a one on one and just be honest. Post cancer has a lot of baggage, too, but now she needs to focus on getting her life back and she needs to knock that shiat off.

I do not just do not understand people who pull these huge drinking benders when they have work the next day. I'll drink if I have work the next day, maybe even get drunk. But I'll stop myself at the number of drinks I know is my limit for when it starts to hurt. And that's because I don't want to work with a mild headache and blah feeling. Drinking you puke, waking up with a knock-down hangover and your head exploding and stomach contents emptying everywhere, and all when you have work that day...WHY?

As a former manager, who has three kids, I believe in shait happens. While being drunk isn't as good as an excuse as a family emergency, she was honest.

This is a good coaching opportunity. If she is a valued employee, then you mark the unexcused absence (without the drunk part) and explain that she is important but that continued behavior like that could lead to problems.

If she is a crappy employee, you put in her file she was out drunk for two days and then counsel her that she is on probation for 30 days and she risks losing her job if it happens again.

genepool lifeboat: I'd let her slide considering the circumstances. I sincerely hope she doesn't know you came in to a public forum outing her medical history though. HIPAA violations can be a biatch.

No personal information has been disclosed. An anonymous internet poster has told you about his also anonymous employee. HIPAA only applies if names or other ID information is attached.

Also, I can't believe the posters that are telling you to even reprimand her. Does she have sick days available anyway? Then no reason needed.

Does she not have any remaining? Given you donated to her breast reconstruction, I think we all know you're a good guy. Track it and take it out of future sick time. If everyone in the office knows about her cancer, no one there is going to call this unfair.

I used to have the best boss in the world. I was working second shift at the time and he was the manager and worked 1st shift (small office). One day I had a doctor's appointment before work and it turned out to be one of those truly gorgeous early spring days when the temp was 15+ over the average and the sun was shining. I decided to walk the 1.5 miles to my office. It was such a great day that when I got to the office I asked my manager if I could take a personal day. He told me to clear it with my supervisor. When she said Yes I waved good bye and went for a six mile walk. Sure, it cost me one of my personal days, but that is what they are for. I do not remember much of that 6-mile walk, but I do remember that it was a gorgeous day and it took me over 3 hours because I was constantly stopping to sit on a bench and enjoy the weather and/or the people walking by or just enjoying a drink at a bar's outdoor patio.

I recommend a variation of the following statement assuming I have read the thread correctly:

"I'm glad you had a chance to celebrate your remission with some friends and I hope you had a great time. Also, thanks also for being honest. I appreciate it. To show how much, I'm letting you use sick days to cover them. But if you call in hung over again or show any kind of pattern to your drinking, we'll have to have a different conversation."

didn't read the thread, but thought I'd share something.

Several years ago when my now 24 year old son was in the 7th grade, he asked me if he could stay home from school. I asked if he was sick and he said no, he just didn't feel like going. I asked if he had a test he hadn't studied for or homework due that he didn't finish. He said no, he just needed a personal day. As he had just gone 2 full years without missing a day, i agreed. But what bugged me was that in school you aren't allowed a personal day. I called and lied for him so it was an excused absence but what lesson did it teach? In the real workforce, we get personal/vacation and sick days. They aren't scheduled by the company, they're scheduled by us. I am not sure if I should've made him get an unexcused absence, resulting in detention, for taking a personal day. I didn't see anything wrong with wanting a personal day but I hated lying about it, and I didn't think that he should get detention for taking the day off. My mom on the other hand said I was being an irresponsible parent. Given that she made me stay home 58 days when I was in the 5th grade to care for my 3 younger brothers because she was too farking hung over to do it, I discount any parenting advice from her.

As far as I know he never missed another day for similar reasons. He graduated with a 4.0 gpa, went to West Point and graduated with a BS/Economics with a 3.83 gpa. He's in Afghanistan right now, and will be heading back to Germany May 29, (Go 3-66AR!) and will get 30 days of leave beginning July 3.

CSS or not, ymmv

Does she know you told the internet?

I'm sure your other employees love the fact that you're excusing her from doing her job, thus making them have to work harder because you're too much of a pussy to fire Ms. "Alcohol is more important than work"

Or maybe they'll learn you allow "I'm hungover" as an excuse to play hooky and start doing it themselves.

two days??

Maybe she doesn't know what "hungover" means. Maybe she think it means ... "hung over a toilet with food poisoning" ? eh?

idk

akula: but I find it hard to respect people who go on benders like that.

You don't know why she did it. Maybe she is going through some tough shiat right now and that's her way of dealing with it.

Man you can tell the economy is bad by all the asshole posts on here.

SHE CELEBRATED AFTER GETTING DONE WITH CHEMO

jesus

/maybe most of you just work for terrible bosses, or are terrible bosses
/fine examples of the dilbert & peter principles

Danger Mouse: A 2 day hangover? Ouch.

Personaly I would suspect this person of being an alcoholic. Expect more of these sick days in the future.

As a boss/manager I would be upset that this person couldn't control thier own indulgences and shows little repsect for the job. I'd want them off my team.

What is youre company's policy on sick time? Do you have an HR department? an Employee Assitance Program?

At the very least I'd put this person on warning that calling in hung over for 2 days is Bullhsiat.

If this is a small company and you're not concerend with HR and all that jazz I'd fire them.

Very clever there. You don't know the difference between your and you're, so you put youre. If the proper word is your, you can claim you fat fingered the r and e keys. If the proper word is you're, you can claim you're too lazy to type the apostrophe.

I'm on to you.

Coelacanth Filet: If she has a limited number of sick days to use at her discretion, it's none of your damn business whether it was a hangover, a herpes flareup, a bipolar episode, or a stubbed toe.

False.

WhyteRaven74: chapman: But if she can't get her shiat together for the next day, that's a whole nother issue.

And if she's using an allotted sick day to do so then what?

She's using allotted sick days... while not sick.

Now when/if she actually gets sick, given that chemo has ruined her immune system, she won't have sick days to use.


If you can't celebrate without being too hung over to work, you lack the personal discipline required to be a functioning member of society.

Methadone Girls: She celebrated beating cancer? She used her sick days? She otherwise gets her stuff done??

Who the fark cares?

It's funny how you can tell who will spend the rest of their life answering phones or making sales calls.

Mrs.Sharpier: Does she know you told the internet?

Yeah... the company liable for breach of medical privacy now, btw.

Listen, she obviously cares enough not to lie to you. I was on chemo for 2 years and I can tell you even the simplest of things could set me back for farking weeks. So, yeah....she probably thought "Hey I'll go on a bendy with my pals tonight" and didn't realize it would make her sick for 2 days and is being HONEST with you. I highly doubt she got drunk 2 days in a row.

/lots of Judgey McJudgerson in this thread.
//CHEMOTHERAPY

TrancePI: aquigley: Aarontology: Or did she call in hungover then go out drinking again?

I understood the headline to be this.

I'm kinda gathering that is the case as well, but I havent spoken to her yet. She's due in the office in about 2 hours.

As a bonus info: I donated a rather large chunk of change to help pay for her right-boob reconstruction. Totally irrelevant to this topic, but information none-the-less.

That gives you the right to play with it once or twice a week, IMO.

R.A.Danny: The English Major: R.A.Danny: No she does not. She called in using her sick days.

Even if you have sick time to use, they are still technically absences.

They aren't unexcused though.

An excused absence is when you tell your boss the day beforehand that you don't want to work the next day and he says OK.

TrancePI: Also, some of you are being retarded. She's not getting away scott-free on this. I simply respect the fact that she is being honest and am not going to be as stiff as I normally would be had I found out otherwise after the fact.

So she is hot then.

Sid_the_sadist: No big deal around here. Told my boss this morning I was getting drunk tonight and not coming in tomorrow or Friday.
He said have fun!

Advance notice isn't the same as calling in sick.

Yours is vacation time, hers is improper use of sick time.

tuna fingers: Is she hot?

She sounds like she may be easy.

You can send her my EIP.

Everyone above this post is gay.


Obviously she subby is coming here to ask rather than just firing her because she is hot. No guy would get away with it.

So in the words of Barney Stinson:

Boobs?

It's just some shiatty job, who gives a fark? Y'all take shiat way to seriously. Life is not about working until you die.

It would depend if you are a paper pusher or a human.

After reading the thread, I would consider subby a human.

Everyone else, except for meow and a few others, are pencil pushing HR drones who should be first ones shot out back behind the shed, along with lawyers and CEOs with parachutes made of gold.

I am at a point in my life where you need a doctors notes to be absent from work. Even then we are "faking it" according to the boss who takes as many days off as he likes. Had a co-woker get meningitis, and got a half paralyzed face for his troubles. Dr. Boss thought he was being a pussy by not coming into work 3 days later, even though the doctor said it would take a week for him to be not contagious.

Then there is Boss's buddy, who goes on vacation once a month. Which strikes me as odd, considering I have the same pay, title, and responibilites as he does. I don't mean mondays off, I'm talking 2 week vacations. "Sorry, no one can get any days off until my best buddy gets back from vegas". And I only get 2 days of consequence free "no-show" days.

What farking business is it of yours why she's out for the day? Only in America. Out for two days and half the people in the thread say can her. Lighten up people.

Ross E. Krushan: I seriously have no f-ing clue what you're trying to say. Learn English, as your gibberish is completely disturbing.

It's so fun watching someone react to their first exposure to meow.

Also: is this a job where she HAS to be in every day? Like to answer phones or take orders or whatever?

Or is this more of a job where she is paid on her work and not her time?

If she is not showing up and other people have to cover for her, I think you need to have a discussion with her. If she is paid for, say, projects, and it is not interferring with her work, then I say no problem.

I'm an independent contract so I set my own hours and can of course take off at my (relative) leisure.

Personally, I think just about all "project"-type jobs should work this way. If there's tons of work I have no problem working 12 hour days for a month straight with not even a day off (which I have done numerous times). If there's not much work, there's no reason for me to be in from 10-6pm.

No corporation should tell a person how to work their time, in my opinion.This day in age, with the internet and smart phones, there's no real reason for that. That's why I have no plans to go back to corporate world.

You can tell who works in an office and who works at the 7-11.

Jesus, she just beat cancer. Giver her a pass with a verbal, "I'm letting this slide, but don't let this become a habit."

If she does it again, then explore your options.

SultanofSchwing: I have had a migraine for the past 3 days and I still came into work.

A three-day migraine?

My family has a strong history of migraine. I've had a few, other immediate kin suffer more frequently. I've observed hundreds, from both sides of the experience. They're miserable.

But three days? Go to the doctor and get check-up from the neck-up, and a referral to an oncologist, man! You've got a tumor, dude.

Maybe I just look at this stuff a little differently because I work in a small/mid size company. No one else here does what I do. If I don't show up, work falls behind. I work as an editor for a publishing company, so if my work falls behind, the print shop doesn't get their materials on time, shipping falls behind, etc.

I have to plan my limited vacation time carefully, and I have to be work-focused as opposed to clock-focused. Work has to get done, regardless of how it happens.

There isn't much overlap where I work, and everyone here is important. So, if someone calls in hung over two days in a row, you can understand the lack of respect that person will command here.

I suppose it would be different at a larger company where others can cover for you, or personnel and productivity is on such a large scale that it doesn't matter if you aren't there for two days.

How old is she?

At 24 years old, I was still going out a few times a week partying. I was hungover the next day, but I showed up to work. Part of being in your mid-20's.

Just last week I came in late due to alcohol reasons. It was a beautiful day and me a 3 friends were having such a nice time sitting outside at a bar.

Life happens. So long as it isn't interferring with her work and she's taking personal days, I don't see a problem with it.

serpent_sky: That said, I'd probably be more concerned about what was really going on in her life than firing her because most people get a "24 hour bug" or "food poisoning" and are not so honest as to call in with a hangover. I mean, people in the office may well suspect or know that was the case, but I've never known anyone who told the boss or bragged about missing work due to a hangover. There's probably some bad stuff going on in her life. :/

I get 24 hour bugs and food poisoning far more often than I get hungover. But when I am hungover, I tell my boss the truth. Many people like to drink; it isn't a secret.

CSS:

Years ago I asked my VP of a big enginneering firm dad what the hell he and his coworkers did all day when they didn't have the internet. They couldn't have been working every minute of every hour of every day you know?

His answer: martini lunches and leaving early for happy hour.

He said drinking was a part of business and building relationships with your coworkers. Some of his best engineering ideas with his group come from some bad nights out. Back in the 60's and 70's it wasn't considered bad to have a hangover or whatever so long as you had your work done. I told him that sounds much better than today and he agreed.

/although we are admittedly much healthier today

I don't think she's an alcoholic. If she were, she'd be better at this whole drinking thing.

Chemo patients take a drug called Zofran to help them combat the nausea and dizziness that occur with treatment. It could be that after two weeks, with the effects of this drug no longer in her system, the drinking caused a wicked hangover that DID last for two days.

This reads like one of those farked up AskReddit questions. The ones where you have to search for the rest of the OP's farking story.

csb

Where I work we don't get overtime, but we do get comp time. So if you need to come in on Saturday or Sunday, you earn a day to take off. My boss understands we all need mental health days, especially last year where we went one period of 21 days straight without a day off.

No one was sick, but after that stretch we all took two days before the weekend to do fark all and I considered them "mental health days." I went to Six Flags, my boss went to the Mets game. (Although, personally, I think that would make your mental health worse)

As long as you have the time, who cares what the reason is.

/csb

babysealclubber: As long as they have personal/sick days, who cares?

This. So very much this.

TrancePI: CommieTaoist: I wouldn't mind one of my employees calling in hung-over once, it has happened in fact and I thanked him for his honesty. However, two-days in a row raises all sorts of flags and would cause me to worry about his or her overall maturity and dedication unless something major is happening in their life like death of a family member, divorce, etc.

Finished her last chemo session two weekends ago. Went out with friends to celebrate a little too hard.

How do we get 1/3 of the way through the thread before the subby throws that little tidbit out there? Was that not relevant?

It never ceases to amaze me at how shiatty people are at either fully explaining situations or divulging important facts. Working for a few years in backline technical support for one of the large computer systems companies (rhymed with Fun, until they got bought) I saw it all the time. Some bank's million dollar computer system could be offline and everyone is scrambling around trying to fix it when, 4 hours into the panic mode, some System Administrator would finally think to tell me that, "oh yeah, and this red light is blinking. Is that important?"

Alonjar: That's pretty much all that matters.

That's for showing the world you endorse part of what's wrong with business today.

Coelacanth Filet: If she has a limited number of sick days to use at her discretion, it's none of your damn business whether it was a hangover, a herpes flareup, a bipolar episode, or a stubbed toe.

If her absence is causing your business to grind to a halt, consider planning your business better.

I'm seriously surprised at how many people are unsympathetic and jump to "fire her ass". At every company I've worked at, ranging from big defense contractors to 12-person startups, you could take time off for pretty much any urgent issue as long as you documented it properly. I've seen plenty of people take half-days just because they need to get their cable hooked up. I've taken plenty of sick days (although never for a hangover) and I never get asked any questions.

THIS. A reasonable employer wouldn't require "a reason" for sick leave, if the employee actually accrues sick leave.

My health is not your concern and it's a private, personal issue. This is why the Fed Govt requires their employees to NOT tell them a specific reason for taking sick leave. Anything more can be a violation of HIPAA.

If you're calling in sick for more than 3 consecutive days, you need a doctor's note, but the note shouldn't state the illness or treatment, merely "this patient was under my care for these dates: xyz".

TrainingWheelsNeeded: atlfarkette: Mrs.Sharpier: two days??

Maybe she doesn't know what "hungover" means. Maybe she think it means ... "hung over a toilet with food poisoning" ? eh?

idk

Yeah I've had a bad hangover before but two days? Maybe she got alcohol poisoning.

Maybe she's older. I am 36 and day after drinking I am worthless, second day to depressed to want to do anything, third day my head clears.

which, i should add, is a major reason of why i don't drink anymore

KrustyKitten: The employee coming to work hungover and sick as dog, that I can respect

I'm sorry, but the last thing I want if I'm a boss is someone coming into work sick. Period. They come in sick and next thing you know there's ten more sick people. If you're sick, stay the fark home and get better.

Is she a good employee? Then obviously you don't fire her. Would you fire her for calling in 'sick' for two days? Then why fire her for being honest?

A lot of employers think they deserve some sort of Liege-Lord relationship over their employees. It doesn't do them any favors.

WhippingBoy: Think of what will happen to your business once everyone finds out that it's "OK to call in hung over".

If it's a personal/sick day, the reason shouldn't matter. If someone calls up and says they're just taking a day off? Fine, it's one of the days they're allotted to not be at work without holding it against them. And honesty should always be encouraged. Because being understanding like that? It's rewarded.

Christ, some of you people are brutal.

I have seriously never had a manager ask me the reason for a sick day, outside of idle curiosity or concern that I might bring something contagious to work. I thought it was just common sense that the details are none of their farking business. What, should I get my doctor to forward you my entire medical file every time I miss a day? Does your HR department keep a list of "acceptable" illnesses?

"Oh, but a hangover is her fault." Cool, let's fire people who break their wrist after taking a spill from their bike, you have NO business indulging in such a dangerous hobby when you know you have work the next day. How are we going to ship a product when you're out there recklessly gallivanting on your bicycle? While we're at it let's fire people who get the flu after touching a toy at their kid's day care, they clearly didn't think of their work-related responsibilities when they neglected to wash their hands and wear a flu mask.

It was right there in the contract you signed when I hired you - you are not renting yourself out to me, I am your boss and I OWN you. Before you make a decision in your personal life, you must first ask how this is benefiting The Company.

Also, I think the chemo-victory probably should have been put in the headline. No one that's not an utter douchebag would say she should be fired for celebrating beating cancer. Hell, I'd let her have the whole week.

I gave my employee 5 personal days. For those 5 days a year, she doesn't need an excuse. She knows that they're available for sick days, funerals, whatever. All she has to tell me is that shes taking a personal day, I don't need to hear the details about her Colonoscopy or dead relative, or whatever the fark.

I trust her to not use them as vacation days, and she's the type to drag herself to work instead of calling in, so she's earned my trust.

As for your employee, it depends on their performance prior to this. Are they a good employee? Has she been reliable in the past? I'd definitely lean towards giving her another chance. We all go through hard times in life, and we all make mistakes.

R.A.Danny: vernterv: R.A.Danny: babysealclubber: As long as they have personal/sick days, who cares?

Over in the third.

I agree with this. So, what if she went out for a special occasion and over did it? She's at least telling the truth, and a good functional alcoholic wouldn't have this issue. My guess is that it's a one off thing.

After a "explosive diarrhea" email a few years back, we want nothing more then "I'm not feeling good, I'm staying home". We actually went to an unlimited sick/personal day policy and we got rid of everyone taking the last week of the year off so as to not lose sick days. There is actually less absenteeism than before.

This is how smart companies do things.
We have a set number of days depending on how many years we've been here. We "use-em or lose-em" and get them all back first of the year.
We have as many sick days as we need and they don't come out of vacation days. During our sick days though we're expected to at least try to work from home if possible (keep up on email at a bare minimum). If you're caught using sick days as person days you're getting fired (I've never known anyone who has done this though).

And wouldn't you know it, everyone comes to work when they're supposed to because we don't need to worry about it. If something comes up and you can't come in, no problem just deduct it from personal time. A hangover would be a personal day. A personal day can be taken off for whatever reason you want (or no reason at all...in the summer lots of people take off random nice days, or they come in in the morning and decide by lunchtime they'd rather be outside, so they leave). It works great.

Although, an unlimited personal/sick day policy would be awesome. I only get 10 days personal time :(

Treat employees like adults. Give them x number of Paid Time Off days. This covers sick, vacation, floaters, all of it. The employee calls in and says, "I'm taking a PTO day today." The end. As long as their work gets done, it is none of your business why they are taking the day. If you must, you can make a rule about how many days can be call-ins and how many need to be asked for in advance, but other than that STFU and MYOB.

I have no problem with the occasional *wink wink* call in sick day. Just don't pull it on a day that's going to really fark over anyone else. Doing two in a row is asking for a warning, though.

I would make it clear when she's back that doing that again will result in whatever disciplinary action your company has established.

Aarontology: I'd fire her.

She clearly doesn't need the job.

Because that's what you want - employees with nowhere else to go.

Where do you work, a salt mine?

Not only does who the fark care... but seriously. If you are thinking about this and have to ask Fark after she just beat cancer... you are a colossal douchebag and need to go kill yourself.

Seriously. Go get a job doing something that matters with people who aren't pricks. Go join the Peace Corps or something.

TrancePI: OK, I somehow got a TFD thread green....awesome, first one

/subby
//we have personal days, combined sick/vacation days.

Before you fire her, try to find out if she's going through a really horrible time -- sick family member, etc. -- which often leads people to self-medicate with alcohol/drugs. Take into account her track record with the company, and if you find that this is indeed an aberration of her behavior, cut her some slack.

Doesn't this greatly depend upon her previous experience with you company? I mean, has she always been a model employee and is just being honest about this one time. OR, is she telling the truth because she knows you think she's hot and has been allowed to exhibit this kind of behavior in the past?

If she has a limited number of sick days to use at her discretion, it's none of your damn business whether it was a hangover, a herpes flareup, a bipolar episode, or a stubbed toe.

If her absence is causing your business to grind to a halt, consider planning your business better.

I'm seriously surprised at how many people are unsympathetic and jump to "fire her ass". At every company I've worked at, ranging from big defense contractors to 12-person startups, you could take time off for pretty much any urgent issue as long as you documented it properly. I've seen plenty of people take half-days just because they need to get their cable hooked up. I've taken plenty of sick days (although never for a hangover) and I never get asked any questions.

I'd appreciate the honesty and also ask if perhaps she doesn't have food poisoning or some stomach bug. Could well be the two day hangover is due to some stomach issue. If it is? Stay home, get well and see you soon.

aquigley: Aarontology: Or did she call in hungover then go out drinking again?

I understood the headline to be this.

I'm kinda gathering that is the case as well, but I havent spoken to her yet. She's due in the office in about 2 hours.

As a bonus info: I donated a rather large chunk of change to help pay for her right-boob reconstruction. Totally irrelevant to this topic, but information none-the-less.

OK, I somehow got a TFD thread green....awesome, first one

/subby
//we have personal days, combined sick/vacation days.

No big deal around here. Told my boss this morning I was getting drunk tonight and not coming in tomorrow or Friday.
He said have fun!