In celebration, let's invade Canada!

/What? They have oil!

Cythraul: Mentat: It was a tie!

Ah, let the Canadians/Brits say they won it. They need any excuse they can find to feel pride these days.

Awww. That's cute. Another example of American propaganda and revisionist history. Colour me surprised.

Know why they're in New York harbor and not on Lake Erie?

'Cause we took that one.

/same with New Orleans

one thing I love is thatpeople love to talk about how the british burned the white house but say nothing of what the americans did in toronto

Get the popcorn and wait for the Canadians, Brits, and Americans to all claim they won the war!

Mock26: Get the popcorn and wait for the Canadians, Brits, and Americans to all claim they won the war!

We don't claim to have won the war. We do however (at least in Ontario) claim to have held back an invasion by American forces intent on annexing us. Not a bad accomplishment considering regular British forces weren't available until post 1814 (and the end of the Napoleonic war).

I'd recommend Fort Mackinac to anyone. It's really cool.

Remember, folks, the US national anthem is a poem about a war where the British burned down the US capital, set to a British drinking tune!

Mock26: Get the popcorn and wait for the Canadians, Brits, and Americans to all claim they won the war!

Anyone who has even a passing familiarity with the war won't say that. The war changed the course of history but it was anything but decisive.

hoodiowithtudio: one thing I love is thatpeople love to talk about how the british burned the white house but say nothing of what the americans did in toronto

Not enough apparently. It is still there.

I'd call it a tie. The Treaty of Ghent restored relations to status quo ante bellum. Neither side lost or gained territory. The Brits cleared out of America. Americans stopped bothering Canada and British forces were freed up to pursue other conflicts.

indarwinsshadow: Cythraul: Mentat: It was a tie!

Ah, let the Canadians/Brits say they won it. They need any excuse they can find to feel pride these days.

Awww. That's cute. Another example of American propaganda and revisionist history. Colour me surprised.

Good thing nothing like that happens in any other country.

cgraves67: I'd call it a tie. The Treaty of Ghent restored relations to status quo ante bellum. Neither side lost or gained territory. The Brits cleared out of America. Americans stopped bothering Canada and British forces were freed up to pursue other conflicts.

There's one group that did clearly lose: the Native Americans.

In Maryland we started to issue commerative license plates a few years back and they are having a tall ship floatila on the bay

MBooda: Know why they're in New York harbor and not on Lake Erie?

'Cause we took that one.
[www.ohiohistorycentral.org image 450x328]
/same with New Orleans

On a sidenote, that painting is awesome in person. It's ridiculously large. It's in a stairwell right outside the Senate chamber, so unfortunately not in all that public a spot.

\The original, smaller copy is in the Ohio statehouse, apparently.

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cgraves67: I'd call it a tie. The Treaty of Ghent restored relations to status quo ante bellum. Neither side lost or gained territory. The Brits cleared out of America. Americans stopped bothering Canada and British forces were freed up to pursue other conflicts.

Probably the biggest aftereffect of the war. Once the British stopped supporting the Native Americans in their fight against further colonization, the American west was essentially opened up. The Brits did hang around though, building forts and canals against any possible future invasion.

The other big effect would be the uniting of Upper and Lower Canada.

Cythraul: cgraves67: I'd call it a tie. The Treaty of Ghent restored relations to status quo ante bellum.

If I didn't know much about history or Latin, I'd be asking you why you were referring to the American Civil War.

ante bellum literally means "before the war." It can be used to refer to any time before any war. Status quo ante bellum

Yes, in the U.S. and when discussing U.S. history it is usually used to refer to the years leading up to the Civil War, but that's not the only use it has.

Try again with the link
status quo ante bellum

s1ugg0: Mock26: Get the popcorn and wait for the Canadians, Brits, and Americans to all claim they won the war!

Anyone who has even a passing familiarity with the war won't say that. The war changed the course of history but it was anything but decisive.

Many people do not have a passing familiarity with the war, though!

AlwaysRightBoy: I have a guy that works with me in Manhattan who lives on Staten Island and we at the office told him to take his time getting to work this morning on the Staten Island ferry (as in take a couple hours with your camera and ride the ferry back and forth) to take pictures. Hope he comes in with some good stuff but after talking to him already, he says it's very hazy out there. *sigh*
/heading over to the West side at lunchtime hopefully

My gay friend from Staten Island (where one of the ships is moored) loves Fleet Week. It's a busy time of the year for him.

Link

/educate yourselves

Statue in Toronto commemorating the war. That's a British-Canadian redcoat standing over a fallen US invader.

Just re-read Patrick O'Brien's The Fortune of War, which includes a point of view narration of the battle between the USS Chesapeake and the HMS Shannon, so I'm getting a kick of this thread.

The New US Navy proved it could hold its own against the British Navy, even though the British Navy would have crushed the East Coast if not for Napoleon doing the whole conquering Europe thing. Some battles won and lost for boths sides and it ended in a draw.

/Seriously - read Patrick O'Brien's Aubrey-Maturin books - farking outstanding historical fiction, and good yarns even if you aren't into history.

To be fair to the yanks, the Royal Navy was being kind of a dick towards US ships. But the invasion of Canada was a tad unsporting when we were busy trying to prevent Napoleon from becoming Emperor of the world.

Mock26: Get the popcorn and wait for the Canadians, Brits, and Americans to all claim they won the war!

Don't know about the Canadians, but the Brits are unlikely to show up. I grew up/went to school in Britain, and we learned literally nothing about the War of 1812. Outside of history mavens, you'd be hard pressed to find a Brit who knows anything about British/US relations between 1776 and 1941. If they know any history of that period at all, they probably associate it with the Napoleonic wars, and 1812 in particular with the French retreat from Russia or possibly Wellesley's Peninsular War that would ultimately force the French back across the Pyrenees (although that might be more of a sign that they've read Sharpe than that they've read history...).

So, sorry to my American friends, but while this was a big deal for you, it's not even a footnote for most Brits. Perspective is a funny thing.

Mock26: Get the popcorn and wait for the Canadians, Brits, and Americans to all claim they won the war!

What do Canadians have to do with the War of 1812? That was a war between the USA and the British Crown.

czetie: Mock26: Get the popcorn and wait for the Canadians, Brits, and Americans to all claim they won the war!

Don't know about the Canadians, but the Brits are unlikely to show up. I grew up/went to school in Britain, and we learned literally nothing about the War of 1812. Outside of history mavens, you'd be hard pressed to find a Brit who knows anything about British/US relations between 1776 and 1941. If they know any history of that period at all, they probably associate it with the Napoleonic wars, and 1812 in particular with the French retreat from Russia or possibly Wellesley's Peninsular War that would ultimately force the French back across the Pyrenees (although that might be more of a sign that they've read Sharpe than that they've read history...).

So, sorry to my American friends, but while this was a big deal for you, it's not even a footnote for most Brits. Perspective is a funny thing.

Similar situation in the USA. Not a lot of history (particularly military history) taught in US High schools that covers the period after World War II. People don't love to talk discuss/teach mediocrity and (not that it has come to it yet for the US) the fall of an empire.

The one bit of non 'The Wire', fame Baltimore can claim.

Ft. McHenry and the Battle of North Point. Stopped the Brits after DC burned.

Moopy Mac: Similar situation in the USA. Not a lot of history (particularly military history) taught in US High schools that covers the period after World War II. People don't love to talk discuss/teach mediocrity and (not that it has come to it yet for the US) the fall of an empire.

Actually that's not such a good analogy. The century after 1812 was certainly not one of mediocrity for Britain, and arguably was the height of British global power, given the dominance of the Royal Navy. French power was finally broken, Spain was cut off from its American possessions and was in permanent decline, and the British Empire in the east was huge.

The British ignore the War of 1812 for much the same reason American schoolkids typically aren't taught much about events of WWII before the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor. (And even after 1941, the Americans seem to emphasize the war in the Pacific in almost exactly the same degree that the British are ignorant of it...). Depending on where you sit, the events weren't that important.

Wellon Dowd: We have Fort Washington and Fort Hunt to protect DC.

I wouldn't count on much protection from Fort Hunt. Our High School beat the crap out of them.

Moopy Mac: Mock26: Get the popcorn and wait for the Canadians, Brits, and Americans to all claim they won the war!

What do Canadians have to do with the War of 1812? That was a war between the USA and the British Crown.

Some Canadians like to say that they kicked our ass during the war.

Wellon Dowd: MBooda: Wellon Dowd: We have Fort Washington and Fort Hunt to protect DC.

I wouldn't count on much protection from Fort Hunt. Our High School beat the crap out of them.

Which school?

MVHS 1982.

Yorktown 1974.

/alma mater of Rich Lowry, Eric E. Schmidt, Tyler Mathisen, etc.
//my brother turned down Katie Couric for a date
///astonished to learn FHHS is no more. Well, not astonished, more like meh

Wellon Dowd: Back in 1985, Fort Hunt and Groveton "merged," took up residence in Groveton's hallowed halls, and were rechristened West Potomac.

"West Potomac". Heh. Funny. Makes no geographical sense, but obviously much more politically correct than "South Potomac".

Lonewolf45100: Just re-read Patrick O'Brien's The Fortune of War, which includes a point of view narration of the battle between the USS Chesapeake and the HMS Shannon, so I'm getting a kick of this thread.

The New US Navy proved it could hold its own against the British Navy, even though the British Navy would have crushed the East Coast if not for Napoleon doing the whole conquering Europe thing. Some battles won and lost for boths sides and it ended in a draw.

/Seriously - read Patrick O'Brien's Aubrey-Maturin books - farking outstanding historical fiction, and good yarns even if you aren't into history.

Hell of a book, reminds me I must start re-reading the entire series, they're like literary crack cocaine. The Shannon-Chesapeake fight was particulary interesting as it came after a string of single-ship actions won by the US navy against (admittedly smaller and less heavily-crewed) British frigates. It was said the Royal Navy had grown soft and complacent after decades of dominance and there was probably some truth in that. The US ships were fought like British ships and the Royal Navy had to bring its A-game. It had reached the point that the French and Spanish vessels knew they were going down as soon as they saw a British ship of remotely equal power and you can't keep your edge like that.

dfacto: Link

/educate yourselves

FWIW, that song is actually by Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie, not the Arrogant Worms.

/came for it anyway

Lets see the War of 1812 started because the Brits refused to recognize the U.S. as a legitimate nation and impressed out seamen.

In the peace treaty the Brits agreed the U.S. was a legitimate nation and agreed not to impress out seamen anymore.

Those peace terms don't exactly sound like they where in Britain's favour