TheMysticS: Internet Meme Rogers: TheMysticS: How does pseudoephidrine work for you, like mucinex d or some such?
How often do you need the PMist, and how long has it been since you went to the doctor's?


I've taken it for so long it doesn't appreciably raise my heart rate anymore. Just dilates my bronchial tubes, which is typically a middle of the night thing, but also can be an I just smelled fresh cut grass thing, even with my Advair and Singulair preventatives.

I see my doctor several times a year, last two weeks ago. I don't have any insurance, so he gives me Advair samples. He's a good guy. Doesn't know what to tell me about what to try next for a rescue inhaler at this point.

Wow.
What about a 4hr. pseudoephidrine? Like the sudafed you need to now sign for?
What about other antihistamines? Singulair works in a different way than zyrtec or claritin, so you can take both. Or even benadryl. Have you ever used a nebulizer to deliver meds?
I'd keep some ultra-caffeinated beverage on me at all times if I were you.
Have you tried the old drugs, like theophylline? You have to take them all the time, because maintaining blood levels is key. This is what they did before rescue inhalers. These meds shouldn't be too expensive since they're older. Maybe a maintenance dozing until what you need comes back on the market. How the hell do you afford singulair?
Having no insurance is tough for a situation like yours. Half the things I tried to come up with are possible because of insurance. What about renting an o2 tank for a bit?

Thanks for the concern. Sincerely. I've been dealing with this since I was born, so I am pretty knowledgeable about what's out there and stuff like the coffee trick. As a kid I did Chromolyn Sodium, Alupent (which apparently they still make but it never stopped an attack for me, just was the most vile tasting syrup known to man), etc. My doctor and the internet tell me you can still get epinephrine for delivery by nebulizer, and I have a nebulizer, so that will be my last resort. Can't comfortably get one in my purse though. Heh.

Oh, and I pay for Singulair out of pocket. It's about 120 a month. I realize I am fortunate to be able to afford it.

And so as not to completely threadjack, I also wish to know about the locked door in this scenario. Did the nurse somehow conflate the onset of an asthma attack with him turning into a wheezing werewolf?

Coming up next, a statement from the nurse that she felt threatened by the student or he became verbally abusive when she refused to allow him access to the medication.

Fear_and_Loathing: The Nurse followed the law, the parents made the drug unavailable.

As a nurse, I'd rather go before a jury for breaking a law regarding medication administration and state that I was doing what I could to keep a kid alive than go before a jury for a malpractice suit and state that I was just following the law.

9beers: If the nurse was following the school policy, she can't be touched.

School policy doesn't override the state's BON and the licensure regulations. Hospital policy doesn't even override it.

If school or hospital policy is designed such that it places a patient in danger, and the nurse follows the policy, the nurse is certainly subject to sanction.

The nurse is the patient advocate, and it's the nurse's job to ensure that the patient is cared for, ESPECIALLY when the policy might inhibit proper patient care.

You stray from that, and a patient is injured, and you won't be a nurse for much longer.

I don't buy almost any of the arguments here. If the kids medicine was clearly maked as his, that's a heck of a thing for any kid to fake and if the kid was in distress, that too while fakable, well if you ever have witnessed someone in the throws of a severe asthma attack that's farking hard to fake. So you give the kid a couple of hits off the inhaler and you call 911. End of story. Kid lives, nurse is a hero. No lawsuit. No job loss. Kid lives, everyone happy. Your arguements in favor of the school system are malicious and callous..there are somethings you just freaking do if you are descent human being...

ladyfortuna: Devil's advocate for a second, even medical professionals may not have experienced an emergency situation before, and there is no way to predict how someone will react in one

Actually, most school nurses are older nurses who have quite a bit of experience under their belt and are looking for something that's not so physically hard on their bodies.

The general rule for nurses is that newly licensed nurses can't practice in an independent setting (which a school is considered) until they have X number of years of experience as a nurse.

This rule is put in place specifically to address the issue you raised. They want someone who's worked past the natural human inclination to stand back and not get involved.

NeoBad: I don't buy almost any of the arguments here. If the kids medicine was clearly maked as his, that's a heck of a thing for any kid to fake and if the kid was in distress, that too while fakable, well if you ever have witnessed someone in the throws of a severe asthma attack that's farking hard to fake. So you give the kid a couple of hits off the inhaler and you call 911. End of story. Kid lives, nurse is a hero. No lawsuit. Nurse gets fired for breaking the rules. Kid lives, everyone happy. Your arguements in favor of the school system are malicious and callous..there are somethings you just freaking do if you are descent human being...

Fixed that for you.

Some people just follow the rules, no matter whether they're good or bad. In Dungeons and Dragons terms, they're Lawful Neutral.

Internet Meme Rogers: TheMysticS: Internet Meme Rogers: TheMysticS: How does pseudoephidrine work for you, like mucinex d or some such?
How often do you need the PMist, and how long has it been since you went to the doctor's?


I've taken it for so long it doesn't appreciably raise my heart rate anymore. Just dilates my bronchial tubes, which is typically a middle of the night thing, but also can be an I just smelled fresh cut grass thing, even with my Advair and Singulair preventatives.

I see my doctor several times a year, last two weeks ago. I don't have any insurance, so he gives me Advair samples. He's a good guy. Doesn't know what to tell me about what to try next for a rescue inhaler at this point.

Wow.
What about a 4hr. pseudoephidrine? Like the sudafed you need to now sign for?
What about other antihistamines? Singulair works in a different way than zyrtec or claritin, so you can take both. Or even benadryl. Have you ever used a nebulizer to deliver meds?
I'd keep some ultra-caffeinated beverage on me at all times if I were you.
Have you tried the old drugs, like theophylline? You have to take them all the time, because maintaining blood levels is key. This is what they did before rescue inhalers. These meds shouldn't be too expensive since they're older. Maybe a maintenance dozing until what you need comes back on the market. How the hell do you afford singulair?
Having no insurance is tough for a situation like yours. Half the things I tried to come up with are possible because of insurance. What about renting an o2 tank for a bit?

Thanks for the concern. Sincerely. I've been dealing with this since I was born, so I am pretty knowledgeable about what's out there and stuff like the coffee trick. As a kid I did Chromolyn Sodium, Alupent (which apparently they still make but it never stopped an attack for me, just was the most vile tasting syrup known to man), etc. My doctor and the internet tell me you can still get epinephrine for delivery by nebulizer, and I have a nebulizer, so that will be my last resort. Can't comfortably get one in my purse though. Heh.

Oh, and I pay for Singulair out of pocket. It's about 120 a month. I realize I am fortunate to be able to afford it.

And so as not to completely threadjack, I also wish to know about the locked door in this scenario. Did the nurse somehow conflate the onset of an asthma attack with him turning into a wheezing werewolf?

Yeah, I figured singular would be that much. Damn! Add a few meds per month to that and there's an insurance payment. I don't know why you don't have insurance, but I wish for your sake that you did.
Regardless, I see that you are an old-school wheezer- chromo sodium!- like me. I'm glad that you got it under its best control. Not to threadjack myself, but this is why I feel healthcare is a modern human right.
Good luck, sister in lungs. May your sputum be clear, and your days wheeze-free!
Ew. Can't believe I typed that, but it's stayin'.

One Bad Apple: [www.moviesonline.ca image 400x300]


"You know Billy, what worries me is how your mother is going to take this."



How many schools still have an actual nurse anymore ?

You'd be surprised. Since kids are required to go to school and some kids (like my son) are allergic to stuff, there is a nurse or equivalent in just about every school for liability purposes. Is this person full time? probably not, but you can see how they could teach biology or work in the office and be on call.

Public School logic: Calls cops if you draw on a desk

Won't call ambulance if you are choking to death.


Long ago had a burst ulcer in class, they left me writhing on the floor for 4 hours without even letting me go to the nurse

hypocaffeinemia: theknuckler_33: One Bad Apple: Could some farker with a GED in pharmacology verify if it is possible to OD on inhaler meds ?

Albuterol is a steroid,

Wrong. It's a beta 2 agonist (think: opposite of beta blocker), which bronchodilates. You could theoretically take too much and the chronotropic/inotropic effects on your heart could prove to be too much. I've never seen it from an inhaler, but it does happen with epinephrine drips, so it is possible (you can overdose on anything in a high enough dosage).

--

As to the article, as an ICU nurse, I can see both sides. If they want to avoid these things in the future, they should look to expanding RN scope of practice to better cover reality. When I rush to grab ativan, for instance, for a patient in status epilepticus in the middle of the night and push it because no physician has bothered to call me back, I'm technically practicing medicine without a license, even though I'm doing what my patient needs. Without a signed note from the parents authorizing its use (considering it is doubtful the prescribing physician has communicated directly with the school RN), the nurse was in danger of practicing without a license, despite it going against common sense to withhold a needed med.

As with my example with ativan and seizures, nurses are often placed in unfavorable positions where we know medically what the patient needs immediately and yet lack the authority (and responsibility) to make the call. I don't know the details of the article's scenario, but I've seen many a nurse who is afraid to operate in the legal grey area and choose "by-the-book" protecting their license over doing what is best for the patient.

I would have been more understanding about the nurse not giving the meds if instead she had dialed 911 immediately.

She didn't. Why not? Passive agressive school nurse bullshiat. She was more interested in punishing Mom by making her interrupt her work day and drive all the way to the school to give the meds to the kid than in protecting the student's health.

There is no possible excuse for not calling 911. None at all. None. At. All.

It doesn't matter if she didn't think the attack was all that bad. They can turn bad rather quickly. When in doubt, farking call 911.

diaphoresis: slotz: diaphoresis: MrEricSir: Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. And those who can't even do that become school administrators.

Sooooooo much THIS!

As a 25-year IT veteran and now-high school teacher, I take exception to this old saw. I am proof that I "could, and did" for 25 years and now I teach because I love it doing it and thank God I don't really need my pittance of a salary. I'm not the only teacher in my school (let alone district) like me, either. Look, there are incompetents in every field, OK? The reason public school administrators sometimes look so foolish is that they are charged with enforcing policies created by politicians. biatch all you want, but that's the truth.

In this case, the nurse should have called 911, so off with her head. But shame on the parents for not staying on top of the signature situation, with which they were presumably familiar from previous years.

I congratulate you on your ability to keep your common sense & intelligence after becoming a teacher. Usually IQs go way down after such a move. There are exceptions to every rule and you seem to be able to articulate your displeasure effectively. Keep in mind, you are the exception to the rule..

/Have won every single 'debate' with superintendents
//IQ is only 130 (+/- 15 pts on either side)
/SAD tag holding my hand

And since this is a rule, I am sure you have hard statistics to back it up and not just anecdotes and butthurt memories from adolescence to back it up? You are the one asserting a rule, so the responsibility for backing it up with facts, not the films from your last colonoscopy, is entirely on you.

hypocaffeinemia: We don't know if she should have called for help, because the article is entirely as reported by the kid and the kid's mom.

If there was any doubt, any at all, she should have called 911. It is not her place to accuse him of faking or to believe him. If he was in any sort of distress at all, she should have called 911. And he was in distress, because she called the mother to come to school and get him.

The nurse farked up, big time. Firing should be the least of her concerns.

Hand Banana: ProudBoiler: The nurse not dialing 911 was probably due to her being busy saving his life without the help from his prescription meds

Busy? Did you even read the article? The idiot nurse didn't do shiat, she ran out of the room and locked the door on him then stood at the window watching him suffocate.

She had enough time to call mom.

hypocaffeinemia: Clearly you know nothing about nursing or nursing law.

More accurately, I think many people here, myself included, don't give a flying fark about nursing law.

Someone is dying in front of you, you save their goddamn life if you can. That's just being a good human being.

If you're willing to let somebody die in front of you for no reason other than because it's the law, you have no damn place being an nurse or anything else in public service.

Good Person: Seeing a person in life-threatening medical emergency needing medicine already prescribed by a physician that is on hand and there is no timely fashion to go through legal loopholes, gives the person in distress the medicine they need, even if they have to bend some rules.

Bad Person: Same scenario, decides out of legalistic cowardice to risk letting that person die on the off chance it could endanger your professional license on a technicality.

If it really comes to it, as people here have noted, why the hell couldn't the nurse get the inhaler out, put it on the desk right in front of the student and say "I'm not allowed to give this to you without that permission slip, so I'm going to step out of here for a moment to try to find that permission slip"? That would let the moral obligation to save a life be met while still performing a CYA move if you must. This "nurse" didn't even call 911 and just walked off on somebody in a medical emergency.

Ambivalence: Fear_and_Loathing: Unfortunately, the law is the law and people who are charged with the care of children are under very strict laws. I ran residential programs for youth and the law is quite clear. If the paperwork is not in order, then the drugs are not allowed onsite, nor can they be administered. Often parents do not fill out the required paperwork and it is their laziness that puts the child in danger. Not everyone is covered by the good Sam laws. Professionals are not for example. Likewise if you are trained in CPR and !1st Aid, you must perform up to the standards of your training.

Many times we had to reject meds on site, because it was illegal for us to have them onsite or make them available. The Nurse followed the law, the parents made the drug unavailable.

That being said, if you are not a professional and want to administer a controlled drug, well you are probably free and clear. YMMV.

Every rule has exceptions. If a child is endangered by not receiving medication, the professional could be found liable for harm done by denying it.

There is a balance to be had and it is always better to err on the side of not letting the kid die or suffer.

There was a perfectly reasonable alternative to not administering the meds: CALL 911!

I have serious issues with any nurse who would rather a child die in front of her because she was withholding the child's doctor-prescribed medication.

It seems that nearly any legal consequence of saving the child's life would be preferable to just standing there and watching the child die. But then, I'm not a sociopath.

/ And since when do "school rules" trump the law?

A) The nurse is probably in trouble because of her failure to call 911 - that is clearly within her responsibilities in this (and many other) instances.

B) Withholding the medications without the form is 100% correct thing to do because:

Schools get sued every day for extremely minor violations of federal and state laws dealing with medical and learning disabilities issues.

These pants-on-head "idiotic" rules are designed the minimize exposure to lawsuits because even if 999 out of 1000 parents wouldn't sue if a school accidently gave a med without permission that one parent would.

There are just certain people who see schools/businesses/agencies as a giant slot machine ready to pay out. The school districts are advised by their own lawyers as well and they communicate across the state and country. If a school district is successfully sued for doing (A) or not doing (B) you can bet that next year most schools will have a new policy ASAP.

CSB:

I remember having a full-blown asthma attack at a CVS and begging them for an inhaler despite the fact that I didn't have a current prescription on file (I had in the past at that same store but I was out of refills). After being refused by the pharmacy tech for that reason -- I was told to call 911 or go to an ER -- the pharmacist came out with an inhaler and told me that in emergency situations he could use his discretion in dispending non-narcotic medication without an active scrip on file. This happened in DC, but I thought it useful info to share with the thread -- you might want to check on the law in your state, it could be a lifesaver,

Bartleby the Scrivener: cchris_39: If it's a valid prescription from a doctor, it's none of the school's damned business.

In fact, it's probably a HIPAA violation for insisting that the family disclose PHI in the first place.

Schools are not a covered entity under hipaa.

Next.

You'll have to cite the exemption for school clinics as opposed to other clinics. Schools are definitely covered by HIPAA.

Fizpez: A) The nurse is probably in trouble because of her failure to call 911 - that is clearly within her responsibilities in this (and many other) instances.

B) Withholding the medications without the form is 100% correct thing to do because:

Schools get sued every day for extremely minor violations of federal and state laws dealing with medical and learning disabilities issues.

These pants-on-head "idiotic" rules are designed the minimize exposure to lawsuits because even if 999 out of 1000 parents wouldn't sue if a school accidently gave a med without permission that one parent would.

There are just certain people who see schools/businesses/agencies as a giant slot machine ready to pay out. The school districts are advised by their own lawyers as well and they communicate across the state and country. If a school district is successfully sued for doing (A) or not doing (B) you can bet that next year most schools will have a new policy ASAP.

The "didn't want a lawsuit" excuse would maybe hold water had she called 911. However, she would never, ever, in no way have risked a lawsuit for calling 911, yet she almost certainly brought a lawsuit down on the district by not calling.

She acted in a way that brought a lawsuit, not prevented one.

Nah, this was a power trip on the nurse's part: "PAPERWORK MUST BE FILED! I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT IT MEANS NOT TO FILE YOUR PAPERWORK!"

carrion_luggage: CSB:

I remember having a full-blown asthma attack at a CVS and begging them for an inhaler despite the fact that I didn't have a current prescription on file (I had in the past at that same store but I was out of refills). After being refused by the pharmacy tech for that reason -- I was told to call 911 or go to an ER -- the pharmacist came out with an inhaler and told me that in emergency situations he could use his discretion in dispending non-narcotic medication without an active scrip on file. This happened in DC, but I thought it useful info to share with the thread -- you might want to check on the law in your state, it could be a lifesaver,

I'd heard that Pharmacists had at least some authority to dispense non-narcotic medication on their own authority, but it was much more limited than a Physician. Never had to deal with the rule personally, but glad to know that it wasn't a complete urban legend.

namegoeshere: Fizpez: A) The nurse is probably in trouble because of her failure to call 911 - that is clearly within her responsibilities in this (and many other) instances.

B) Withholding the medications without the form is 100% correct thing to do because:

Schools get sued every day for extremely minor violations of federal and state laws dealing with medical and learning disabilities issues.

These pants-on-head "idiotic" rules are designed the minimize exposure to lawsuits because even if 999 out of 1000 parents wouldn't sue if a school accidently gave a med without permission that one parent would.

There are just certain people who see schools/businesses/agencies as a giant slot machine ready to pay out. The school districts are advised by their own lawyers as well and they communicate across the state and country. If a school district is successfully sued for doing (A) or not doing (B) you can bet that next year most schools will have a new policy ASAP.

The "didn't want a lawsuit" excuse would maybe hold water had she called 911. However, she would never, ever, in no way have risked a lawsuit for calling 911, yet she almost certainly brought a lawsuit down on the district by not calling.

She acted in a way that brought a lawsuit, not prevented one.

Nah, this was a power trip on the nurse's part: "PAPERWORK MUST BE FILED! I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT IT MEANS NOT TO FILE YOUR PAPERWORK!"

Since you quoted me I'm assuming you find fault with what I wrote - my response was to all the people that think its insane that she would not provide the medication. I gave the reason and it has nothing to do with power-tripping administrators.

I agree, the nurse is probably at fault for failing to call 911 but if the district has a policy in place and she didnt follow it she will likely be fired and probably sued.

When I was 15 I went through this weird thing that whenever I would cough hard I wouldn't be able to breath. Not even a gasp, for about ten seconds sometimes then I would be able to gasp a little before I could finally breath again. This only happened for about a week and has never happened again so I don't know what it was but it was the most terrifying thing I had ever experienced. Just the thought of what this student went through for no reason at all is infuriating. Sometimes rules are stupid and need to be broken.

Fizpez: namegoeshere: Fizpez: A) The nurse is probably in trouble because of her failure to call 911 - that is clearly within her responsibilities in this (and many other) instances.

B) Withholding the medications without the form is 100% correct thing to do because:

Schools get sued every day for extremely minor violations of federal and state laws dealing with medical and learning disabilities issues.

These pants-on-head "idiotic" rules are designed the minimize exposure to lawsuits because even if 999 out of 1000 parents wouldn't sue if a school accidently gave a med without permission that one parent would.

There are just certain people who see schools/businesses/agencies as a giant slot machine ready to pay out. The school districts are advised by their own lawyers as well and they communicate across the state and country. If a school district is successfully sued for doing (A) or not doing (B) you can bet that next year most schools will have a new policy ASAP.

The "didn't want a lawsuit" excuse would maybe hold water had she called 911. However, she would never, ever, in no way have risked a lawsuit for calling 911, yet she almost certainly brought a lawsuit down on the district by not calling.

She acted in a way that brought a lawsuit, not prevented one.

Nah, this was a power trip on the nurse's part: "PAPERWORK MUST BE FILED! I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT IT MEANS NOT TO FILE YOUR PAPERWORK!"

Since you quoted me I'm assuming you find fault with what I wrote - my response was to all the people that think its insane that she would not provide the medication. I gave the reason and it has nothing to do with power-tripping administrators.

I agree, the nurse is probably at fault for failing to call 911 but if the district has a policy in place and she didnt follow it she will likely be fired and probably sued.

My point was that while the district's policy of not giving the medecine without a signed parental note was motivated by the desire to avoid a lawsuit, the behavior of the nurse was not. Including not giving the medication. Her behavior was motivated by her own power trip.

If she did not give the medecine to avoid a lawsuit, she would have called 911. Not calling 911 brought a lawsuit, instead of avoiding one.

If she did not give the medecine in order to follow district policy and therefore not risk her job, she would have called 911, which was also district policy. Not calling 911 broke policy, not followed it, and put her job at risk.

After eliminating these motives, we are left with a power trip to explain her behavior. Again, the policy put in place by the district exists to avoid potential lawsuits. Her choice not to give the medecine, and therefore to follow that policy, however, had nothing at all to do with potential lawsuits.

dahmers love zombie: She locked the door. Did she lock the door with him on the inside (kidnapping), or lock it with her on one side and him on the other (goodbye, nursing license)? I really, really want to know.

FTA: "As soon as we opened up the door, we saw my son collapsing against the wall on the floor of the nurse's office while she was standing in the window of the locked door looking down at my son, who was in full-blown asthma attack."

Looking through the window of the door makes it sound like she locked him in with her on the other side. I don't even know why that would occur to a nurse as a logical response to a respiratory emergency.

hypocaffeinemia: KWess: hypocaffeinemia: remotecody: Doctor > Nurse

Kid has prescription

Prescription is release form.

Licensed nurse who doesn't listen to prescription will no longer be licensed nurse.

Saying ANYTHING else is retard type talk.

Controlled substance for treatment of life threatening condition in hands of intended patient prescribed by lawful medical doctor. Game, set, match.

Saying anything else is the type of thing reserved typically for retards.

Clearly you know nothing about nursing or nursing law. Just because a medication is prescribed by a physician doesn't mean the nurse has the authority to treat a minor without the parent's permission. And unless the physician is in communication with the nurse, the nurse has no way to know the intended plan of care for the minor patient without the parent's records from the physician. You can't just hand a nurse a vial of insulin for your diabetic child and expect magic to happen, prescribed as though it may be.

Also, just to clarify your stupidity even more: The kid had a prescribed medication presumably dispensed from a physician or pharmacist, not a prescription. Considering pharmacies typically place the information and usage instructions on the box of an inhaler, and free samples from the office lack even that, without the parent's authorization letter the nurse may literally have had zero instruction in usage : One puff or two? Maximum number of puffs? How often to repeat? Was a spacer prescribed with it? Does the kid have a heart condition that complicates it use? Does he have an allergy to the drug or a similar drug that wasn't caught when prescribed?


I'm sorry but you keep entirely missing the point. You talk about the vagaries of 'nursing law' (c'mon, you made that up), but the fact is that the nurse, when she couldn't treat the child, should have allowed him to treat himself...it was his inhaler that they had confiscated (btw, the article says it was in its original packaging), or she should have CA ...

She Does Not Have To Administer The Medication.

It wasn't an injection, it was an inhaler that was designed for self-medication. Let the poor bastard do what he wants to do to save his own f'ing life, *then* throw the book at the child and parent (still alive, nothankstothenurse)

This has nothing to do with Nursing, and everything to do with allowing a student to administer his own medication. We allow them to breathe, to cough, to expel wastes on their own - why can't you let the kid use the medicine *he was prescribed*.

That has his name on it.

Substitute "office assistant" or "principal" for "nurse" in the story, and stop this defensive argument defending all nurses, as if this woman is being blamed *because she's a nurse*.

She's being blamed because she's a f'ing idiot first, and being a medically qualified idiot just adds to the dumbass.

ladyfortuna: Stories like this make me glad I wasn't born in a later year. I used to take Advil to school every month for those girl problems, never got hassled for it. Now, if you even admit to taking a painkiller after hours, the school officials will probably drug screen you...

/never did 'real' drugs
//these days the distinction hardly matters

Yeah, I went to a private all girls school, and if you forgot to bring advil during your period, you just had to ask someone in the hall and you'd find a bottle. As a result, I just totally don't get the public school attitude towards these things. I mean, are administrators equipped with no common sense, or are they just not empowered to actually use it? Has any administrator ever been sued for letting a kid use a prescribed inhaler?

Skirl Hutsenreiter: dahmers love zombie: She locked the door. Did she lock the door with him on the inside (kidnapping), or lock it with her on one side and him on the other (goodbye, nursing license)? I really, really want to know.

FTA: "As soon as we opened up the door, we saw my son collapsing against the wall on the floor of the nurse's office while she was standing in the window of the locked door looking down at my son, who was in full-blown asthma attack."

Looking through the window of the door makes it sound like she locked him in with her on the other side. I don't even know why that would occur to a nurse as a logical response to a respiratory emergency.

To prevent him from getting help from someone who might actually help him? If so, that kicks this situation, and the nurse's actions, up to eleventypsychotic. If the phone was on the other side of that locked door, this needs to be criminally investigated. Preventing someone from calling 911 is a crime.

Skirl Hutsenreiter: ladyfortuna: Stories like this make me glad I wasn't born in a later year. I used to take Advil to school every month for those girl problems, never got hassled for it. Now, if you even admit to taking a painkiller after hours, the school officials will probably drug screen you...

/never did 'real' drugs
//these days the distinction hardly matters

Yeah, I went to a private all girls school, and if you forgot to bring advil during your period, you just had to ask someone in the hall and you'd find a bottle. As a result, I just totally don't get the public school attitude towards these things. I mean, are administrators equipped with no common sense, or are they just not empowered to actually use it? Has any administrator ever been sued for letting a kid use a prescribed inhaler?

The history goes something like this - long ago no one cares if you use Advil/Aspirin/Tylenol and/or give them to someone else to use. A few kids a year (country wide) have some previously undiagnosed allergic reaction (with potentially fatal effects) to a common med but their parents are realistic and recognize it could have happened to anyone at any time.

Then something magical happens - the wrong kid with the wrong parents has a reaction and the school district is sued for "knowingly allowing minors to exchange and use medicines within their schools". They either settle for some obscene amount of money or spend and obscene amount of money defending the practice and probably lose even more money when found negligent. The school hires even more lawyers who attempt to insulate the school from further liability.

The result: All meds must be left with the nurse with parental permission violation of this policy is grounds for expulsion/immediate execution by firing squad.

Most people I've run in to would L O V E to be reasonable of situations like this but there is no legal wiggle room - you are either completely liable for any laxity or omission of policy or you institute draconian, no tolerance, one size fits all "idiotic" policies in an attempt to not get sued into ruin.

Fizpez: They either settle for some obscene amount of money or spend and obscene amount of money defending the practice and probably lose even more money when found negligent. The school hires even more lawyers who attempt to insulate the school from further liability.

This is the part I don't get, though: my school should have the same liability problems as any public school, and yet they didn't institute draconian policies. The only distinction I can make is that they counting on their lawyers defending them better.

Fizpez: There are just certain people who see schools/businesses/agencies as a giant slot machine ready to pay out.

So what? You don't let the kid die in front of you, lawyers be damned.

And I work with em.

TheMysticS: Good luck, sister in lungs. May your sputum be clear, and your days wheeze-free!
Ew. Can't believe I typed that, but it's stayin'.


Most excellently said! True laughing out loud.

I don't have insurance because of the pre-existing condition thing. While I have a decent paying job it doesn't offer insurance. A bad, although I suspect not uncommon, confluence of events. My state has a high risk insurance pool I could join. just a mere 750/month for crap coverage. Yeah, can't do it, thanks.

Fortunately I do have a doctor who is sympathetic to my situation, and the income to pay for things like an expensive preventative med. I love Singulair. It's the only thing I've ever taken that actually helps and has no side effects whatsoever for me.

Did you know that if you pay for Advair out of pocket it's between 350-380 per month, depending on the strength you're prescribed? Ironic, isn't it, that the pharma company can afford to give my doctor endless samples but can't lower the out of pocket cost for people with no insurance. Those drug commercials on tv always say "If you can't afford your medication, Astra-Zeneca (or whoever) may be able to help." The catch is that you have to be near or below the poverty line for their sweet, sweet help.

carrion_luggage: CSB:

I remember having a full-blown asthma attack at a CVS and begging them for an inhaler despite the fact that I didn't have a current prescription on file (I had in the past at that same store but I was out of refills). After being refused by the pharmacy tech for that reason -- I was told to call 911 or go to an ER -- the pharmacist came out with an inhaler and told me that in emergency situations he could use his discretion in dispending non-narcotic medication without an active scrip on file. This happened in DC, but I thought it useful info to share with the thread -- you might want to check on the law in your state, it could be a lifesaver,

CSS: I saw a girl having a full blown attack at my CVS in California and the pharmacy could do nothing for her as there was a problem with the insurance. I had an inhaler in my purse that was the same type she uses, so I just pulled out the canister and gave it to her. Not the mouthpiece obvs that would be gross. She wanted to return it after using it, I told her to just keep it since my insurance covers a seemingly limitless supply of it at nearly 100% - go figure. Asthmatics have to help each other whenever we can. It's a real wheeze.
Now that I'm retelling the tale, I wonder if at the time I should have been concerned about the pharm tech ratting me out to my insurance company that I'm just giving my prescription drugs away. Can they do that? An why would they?

Great Porn Dragon: //gottverdammt Qvar costs goatbuggering $150/month and no generic till at least 2014, and I kind of need that to keep from sucking albuterol four times a day
///remind me WHY I live in what is considered the most asthmagenic part of North America again?

Your Qvar is THAT much? Good lord, I thought it was bad at $60 per month. Is a bit less than that at my current pharmacy.,

/what a crappy spring for asthmatics this year.

Blame the lawyers. They are the ones that make this kind of crap necessary.

So sad to live in a place where buearocracy>common sense.

Internet Meme Rogers: TheMysticS: Good luck, sister in lungs. May your sputum be clear, and your days wheeze-free!
Ew. Can't believe I typed that, but it's stayin'.


Most excellently said! True laughing out loud.

I don't have insurance because of the pre-existing condition thing. While I have a decent paying job it doesn't offer insurance. A bad, although I suspect not uncommon, confluence of events. My state has a high risk insurance pool I could join. just a mere 750/month for crap coverage. Yeah, can't do it, thanks.

Fortunately I do have a doctor who is sympathetic to my situation, and the income to pay for things like an expensive preventative med. I love Singulair. It's the only thing I've ever taken that actually helps and has no side effects whatsoever for me.

Did you know that if you pay for Advair out of pocket it's between 350-380 per month, depending on the strength you're prescribed? Ironic, isn't it, that the pharma company can afford to give my doctor endless samples but can't lower the out of pocket cost for people with no insurance. Those drug commercials on tv always say "If you can't afford your medication, Astra-Zeneca (or whoever) may be able to help." The catch is that you have to be near or below the poverty line for their sweet, sweet help.

Yeah. Here's another doozy about insurance.
Hubby has RA. We have fed bc/bs, one of the reasons he's stayed at his job instead of hitting the private sector.
A few years ago, he started taking Humira. NEGOTIATED price for 1 month of shots- $1500 .
We were devastated. We had no idea how we would pay. More than our mortgage!
Dr. says- Aw, shiat, I forgot to tell you to check your prescription mail order plan.
Total cost - $35 farking dollars. I shiat you not.
It's gone up to $70 now, but it's a biologic agent, requiring ice shipping, so still a good deal.
What in the holy heck is that all about?
I'll tell you what. Bullshiat.
Over the last 5 years our med expenses have doubled, with no new experiences to add, so to speak. It's put us in a tough situation, since we've been trying to pay off debt quickly. We figure we spend about $1200/mo. for insurance, docs, and meds. That's another whole house payment, ffs!
Anyway, we know we're lucky to be able to afford it, and planned our life years ago to make sure we kept that aspect covered.

But, holy moly $750/mo! Damn, girl, no wonder you're not taking that.

Also, singulair is good stuff, I agree.
Favoriting you in happy sunshine yellow.

carrion_luggage: CSB:

I remember having a full-blown asthma attack at a CVS and begging them for an inhaler despite the fact that I didn't have a current prescription on file (I had in the past at that same store but I was out of refills). After being refused by the pharmacy tech for that reason -- I was told to call 911 or go to an ER -- the pharmacist came out with an inhaler and told me that in emergency situations he could use his discretion in dispending non-narcotic medication without an active scrip on file. This happened in DC, but I thought it useful info to share with the thread -- you might want to check on the law in your state, it could be a lifesaver,

Scary. Good advice, too.
Sometimes my script does not come in early enough, and I have been given a few pills-at the pharmacist's discretion- to tide me over.
Especially when they see that it's meds you've been prescribed continuously.
Those farking idiots at the CVS should have known that, and talked to the pharmacist immediately.

I'm in MD, btw.

Soymilk: carrion_luggage: CSB:

I remember having a full-blown asthma attack at a CVS and begging them for an inhaler despite the fact that I didn't have a current prescription on file (I had in the past at that same store but I was out of refills). After being refused by the pharmacy tech for that reason -- I was told to call 911 or go to an ER -- the pharmacist came out with an inhaler and told me that in emergency situations he could use his discretion in dispending non-narcotic medication without an active scrip on file. This happened in DC, but I thought it useful info to share with the thread -- you might want to check on the law in your state, it could be a lifesaver,

CSS: I saw a girl having a full blown attack at my CVS in California and the pharmacy could do nothing for her as there was a problem with the insurance. I had an inhaler in my purse that was the same type she uses, so I just pulled out the canister and gave it to her. Not the mouthpiece obvs that would be gross. She wanted to return it after using it, I told her to just keep it since my insurance covers a seemingly limitless supply of it at nearly 100% - go figure. Asthmatics have to help each other whenever we can. It's a real wheeze.
Now that I'm retelling the tale, I wonder if at the time I should have been concerned about the pharm tech ratting me out to my insurance company that I'm just giving my prescription drugs away. Can they do that? An why would they?

Amen to what you said.
And I'm pretty sure you didn't get ratted out. Wtf do they care unless there's a bounty?

/oh, no. Any insurance Fu(kers reading this go away