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(Click Orlando)   School nurse refuses student access to his inhaler during full-blown asthma attack. School officials took it away because they had no current form signed by a parent authorizing its use   (clickorlando.com ) divider line
    More: Florida, school nurse, release form, asthma, refuses student, students, parents, School Administrators  
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11610 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 May 2012 at 9:19 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-22 09:51:20 PM  

great_tigers: phrawgh: [www.cafeprevention.com image 600x600]
We MUST keep the marijuana's out of our children. How else can we do it? It turned out ok. In the unlikely event he had died, Jesus would have welcomed this drug free child into heaven.

/grow up people. This is a serious problem!

What does marijuana have to do with this??? I swear, pot smokers could turn any story into a pro pot rally cry. You support it, ok, I don't agree but this has nothing to do with it.

A mountain lion is killed Santa Monica THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED IF POT WAS LEGAL!


You don't really get it do you? The War on Drugs erodes all of our rights and directly contributes to situations like this.

/I don't do drugs in any form, not even marijuana.
 
2012-05-22 09:51:43 PM  
Asthma sufferer here.

I hope the school district gets sued and everyone involved in denying this kid his life-saving drugs to go broke defending and losing the lawsuit.

Then I want the people who denied this kid his medicine to suffocate.
 
2012-05-22 09:52:06 PM  

Soymilk: great_tigers: Sorry thread jack.

A great way to help ease an asthma attack in the event of no inhaler is actually coffee. Just in case anyone here needs it or can help someone.

Really? How does that work? I don't disbelieve you, but an explanation would greatly add to my knowledge.


Apparently the caffeine opens the restricted tubes.

/Spent 5 years using a caffeine based inhaler keeping me in remission.

//Coffee working on it's own these days. (They're not kidding about a shortage of Doctors in Ontario)
 
2012-05-22 09:52:09 PM  
Selesky said the district is looking into whether proper procedures were followed by the school, and while nurses can't give medications without the proper authorization, it is district policy to call 911 when a student cannot breath

After reading the article and this thread, when, exactly, did breath become the same farking word as breathe? Or are all you people just farking stupid?
 
2012-05-22 09:52:17 PM  

FizixJunkee: \\for some reason, it only seems to strike boys in my family


Now that is interesting. I am sorry for the pain asthma have inflicted on your family, I was an asthmatic child myself, but I had not heard of asthma having gender-specific heritability. I don't know how old you are or if you have had/planning to have children, but is this something you can have checked at a geneticist? IDK as I don't have a GED in Genetic Counseling, just wondering...
 
2012-05-22 09:52:25 PM  

Tergiversada: From the article: "He said the school dean found his inhaler during a search of his locker last Friday. The inhaler was still in its original packaging -- complete with his name and directions for its use; however, the school took it away because his mother hadn't signed the proper form for him to have it."

In other words, it was fresh in his mind that there was no authorization for him to use it, and maybe he should have told his mom to sign the form, just in case something like this happened?


Isn't the doctor's name on that prescription? Isn't that permission?
 
2012-05-22 09:52:39 PM  
But but but Suzie can have her inhaler/epi-pen in the front office where it can be kept safe!
 
2012-05-22 09:53:19 PM  

Soymilk: great_tigers: Sorry thread jack.

A great way to help ease an asthma attack in the event of no inhaler is actually coffee. Just in case anyone here needs it or can help someone.

Really? How does that work? I don't disbelieve you, but an explanation would greatly add to my knowledge.


Quad shot espresso enema. Then give them a tin whistle and a kitten and send em home.

Since your gonna get sued by the parents anyway you may as well get your monies worth.
 
2012-05-22 09:53:44 PM  

Cythraul: GAT_00: And why is nobody pissed at the parents for not signing the damn form? The kid would have been fine if the parents didn't fark up too.

I don't know what the fark is up with the nurse but she isn't the only failure here.

But we're here to bash the schools, not be objective with our hate, right?

I withhold my judgment over the parents because no information is given as to why the parents had not signed the form. There may be a good excuse. The circumstances surrounding the school's decisions seem to be pretty well laid out, however.


What's a good excuse for not signing a form that you've signed in each of the preceding three years?

Charge the parents with child neglect & endangerment, or drop the whole thing.
 
2012-05-22 09:56:03 PM  

bubo_sibiricus: Asthma sufferer here.

I hope the school district gets sued and everyone involved in denying this kid his life-saving drugs to go broke defending and losing the lawsuit.

Then I want the people who denied this kid his medicine to suffocate.


Totally agree. I'm all for locking them in a steam bath and cranking the humidity until they drown.
 
2012-05-22 09:56:14 PM  
"I want to press child endangerment charges for something they did to my son," Rudi said in the 911 call.

I hope she wins the case. I hope she wins big.

I hope the "nurse" will end up in a job more suited to her skills, like spinning till she's dizzy or eating her own boogers.
 
2012-05-22 09:56:59 PM  

Fear_and_Loathing: Unfortunately, the law is the law and people who are charged with the care of children are under very strict laws. I ran residential programs for youth and the law is quite clear. If the paperwork is not in order, then the drugs are not allowed onsite, nor can they be administered. Often parents do not fill out the required paperwork and it is their laziness that puts the child in danger. Not everyone is covered by the good Sam laws. Professionals are not for example. Likewise if you are trained in CPR and !1st Aid, you must perform up to the standards of your training.

Many times we had to reject meds on site, because it was illegal for us to have them onsite or make them available. The Nurse followed the law, the parents made the drug unavailable.

That being said, if you are not a professional and want to administer a controlled drug, well you are probably free and clear. YMMV.


Much more likely the school lost the authorization. That nurse should be up on attempted murder charges. She knows the threat, she didn't call 911. It's her duty to provide medical aid.
 
2012-05-22 09:57:32 PM  

Lsherm: Selesky said the district is looking into whether proper procedures were followed by the school, and while nurses can't give medications without the proper authorization, it is district policy to call 911 when a student cannot breath

After reading the article and this thread, when, exactly, did breath become the same farking word as breathe? Or are all you people just farking stupid?



It's like "lose" and "loose."
 
2012-05-22 09:57:38 PM  

phrawgh: great_tigers: phrawgh: [www.cafeprevention.com image 600x600]

You don't really get it do you? The War on Drugs erodes all of our rights and directly contributes to situations like this.

/I don't do drugs in any form, not even marijuana.


I guess I really don't. This is a medical and lawsuit situation. Not a war on drugs.

/Pot head
 
2012-05-22 09:57:43 PM  

MrEricSir: Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. And those who can't even do that become school administrators.


This man would like a word.
 
2012-05-22 09:58:02 PM  
***The release form = The licensed doctor's Rx.***

Nothing else can be said that isn't retarded.
 
2012-05-22 09:59:38 PM  

slotz: diaphoresis: MrEricSir: Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. And those who can't even do that become school administrators.

Sooooooo much THIS!

As a 25-year IT veteran and now-high school teacher, I take exception to this old saw. I am proof that I "could, and did" for 25 years and now I teach because I love it doing it and thank God I don't really need my pittance of a salary. I'm not the only teacher in my school (let alone district) like me, either. Look, there are incompetents in every field, OK? The reason public school administrators sometimes look so foolish is that they are charged with enforcing policies created by politicians. biatch all you want, but that's the truth.

In this case, the nurse should have called 911, so off with her head. But shame on the parents for not staying on top of the signature situation, with which they were presumably familiar from previous years.


I congratulate you on your ability to keep your common sense & intelligence after becoming a teacher. Usually IQs go way down after such a move. There are exceptions to every rule and you seem to be able to articulate your displeasure effectively. Keep in mind, you are the exception to the rule..

/Have won every single 'debate' with superintendents
//IQ is only 130 (+/- 15 pts on either side)
/SAD tag holding my hand
 
2012-05-22 09:59:53 PM  

theknuckler_33: One Bad Apple: Could some farker with a GED in pharmacology verify if it is possible to OD on inhaler meds ?

Albuterol is a steroid,


Wrong. It's a beta 2 agonist (think: opposite of beta blocker), which bronchodilates. You could theoretically take too much and the chronotropic/inotropic effects on your heart could prove to be too much. I've never seen it from an inhaler, but it does happen with epinephrine drips, so it is possible (you can overdose on anything in a high enough dosage).

--

As to the article, as an ICU nurse, I can see both sides. If they want to avoid these things in the future, they should look to expanding RN scope of practice to better cover reality. When I rush to grab ativan, for instance, for a patient in status epilepticus in the middle of the night and push it because no physician has bothered to call me back, I'm technically practicing medicine without a license, even though I'm doing what my patient needs. Without a signed note from the parents authorizing its use (considering it is doubtful the prescribing physician has communicated directly with the school RN), the nurse was in danger of practicing without a license, despite it going against common sense to withhold a needed med.

As with my example with ativan and seizures, nurses are often placed in unfavorable positions where we know medically what the patient needs immediately and yet lack the authority (and responsibility) to make the call. I don't know the details of the article's scenario, but I've seen many a nurse who is afraid to operate in the legal grey area and choose "by-the-book" protecting their license over doing what is best for the patient.
 
2012-05-22 09:59:57 PM  
I'm 33. I graduated from High School in 1996.

When I was in public schools, we carried our own medication with us. If it was a prescription med and it had our name on it, nobody cared.

After I broke my shoulder badly, I had a bottle of oxycontin prescribed to me for pain. I kept it in my jacket, and that was in '96. The principal himself knew about it, I asked just to be sure since it was a narcotic, he said as long as it was prescribed they didn't care.

OTC stuff was something nobody cared about it. If you picked it up at the Rite Aid or Walgreens, it was just another medicine to carry. Girls would pop midol, I usually had some sudafed lying around for sniffles, somebody in the class would always have some tylenol or aspirin if you got a headache.

Hell, until it became a Federal rule, my HS even had a smoking area for students out on the back loading dock. Then the Feds said that they couldn't let anybody under 18 smoke, so it had to go.

As long as you didn't have alcohol, tobacco (after the Feds said we couldn't have it), or illegal drugs they didn't care.

When the hell did schools go from reasonable to pants-on-head retarded? It's like the world woke up one morning and everything changed.
 
2012-05-22 10:00:36 PM  
farm7.static.flickr.com


This policy is clearly discriminatory towards Sleestak-Americans
 
2012-05-22 10:01:03 PM  
Nurse needs to lose her damn head over that shiat.

Hes suffocating and you lock him up? Sadistic fark.


Hope the school gets the ever loving shiat sued out of them.
 
2012-05-22 10:01:35 PM  

Soymilk: FizixJunkee: \\for some reason, it only seems to strike boys in my family

Now that is interesting. I am sorry for the pain asthma have inflicted on your family, I was an asthmatic child myself, but I had not heard of asthma having gender-specific heritability. I don't know how old you are or if you have had/planning to have children, but is this something you can have checked at a geneticist? IDK as I don't have a GED in Genetic Counseling, just wondering...


I don't know why this happens in my family. The girls in my family did get asthma---my dad's cousin, for example---but of the last generation or two, it's just been boys. For example, my daughter and her female cousin are asthma-free, but their boy cousin (my nephew) has asthma, just like most of the boys of the previous generation (the generation of grandkids and cousins that I belong to).
 
2012-05-22 10:01:55 PM  

One Bad Apple: Could some farker with a GED in pharmacology verify if it is possible to OD on inhaler meds ?


I use an albuterol inhaler myself and you can OD on it, but that's pretty rare that someone actually does that. These rescue inhalers use short-acting bronchodilators. They're used to relieve acute asthma symptoms or attacks very quickly by opening the airways. The bronchodilators start working in minutes and depending on the severity of the attack can give relief for a couple of hours.


In this teen's case, if it was a severe asthma attack, the inhaler likely would have been used initially to give relief, with followup treatment with a long-acting treatment such as Advair and Symbicort (a combination of a long-acting beta-agonist bronchodilator and an inhaled steroid) or if the his condition was too severe due to the delay in treating his asthma, a visit to the ER.
 
2012-05-22 10:02:12 PM  
It's truly a shame the child did not die. THAT *might* have resulted in some policy changes for the better.
 
2012-05-22 10:02:14 PM  

great_tigers: Soymilk: great_tigers: Sorry thread jack.

A great way to help ease an asthma attack in the event of no inhaler is actually coffee. Just in case anyone here needs it or can help someone.

Really? How does that work? I don't disbelieve you, but an explanation would greatly add to my knowledge.

I honestly do not know. I heard it a very very long time ago when I was like 10. After playing soccer after school one day I was short of breath, couldn't find my inhaler and remembered this. I drank coffee that was left over in morning from my parents, it didn't stop everything but fifty percent is a hell of a lot better than ten percent.


Filling a large glass with ice, and "breathing" through the glass can provide temporary relief as well.
 
2012-05-22 10:02:41 PM  

Fear_and_Loathing: Unfortunately, the law is the law and people who are charged with the care of children are under very strict laws. I ran residential programs for youth and the law is quite clear. If the paperwork is not in order, then the drugs are not allowed onsite, nor can they be administered. Often parents do not fill out the required paperwork and it is their laziness that puts the child in danger. Not everyone is covered by the good Sam laws. Professionals are not for example. Likewise if you are trained in CPR and !1st Aid, you must perform up to the standards of your training.

Many times we had to reject meds on site, because it was illegal for us to have them onsite or make them available. The Nurse followed the law, the parents made the drug unavailable.

That being said, if you are not a professional and want to administer a controlled drug, well you are probably free and clear. YMMV.


If she cannot administer the medication herself, she had the duty to at least call an ambulance our send the kid to a doctor. Merely refusing to administer it and allowing the child to continue in respiratory distress is as bad legally as what she refused to do.
 
2012-05-22 10:02:43 PM  

TV's Vinnie: "I want to press child endangerment charges for something they did to my son," Rudi said in the 911 call.

I hope she wins the case. I hope she wins big.

I hope the "nurse" will end up in a job more suited to her skills, like spinning till she's dizzy or eating her own boogers.


You can make money doing that?

/Fires up the ol resume'
 
2012-05-22 10:03:08 PM  

great_tigers: Soymilk: great_tigers: Sorry thread jack.

A great way to help ease an asthma attack in the event of no inhaler is actually coffee. Just in case anyone here needs it or can help someone.

Really? How does that work? I don't disbelieve you, but an explanation would greatly add to my knowledge.

I honestly do not know. I heard it a very very long time ago when I was like 10. After playing soccer after school one day I was short of breath, couldn't find my inhaler and remembered this. I drank coffee that was left over in morning from my parents, it didn't stop everything but fifty percent is a hell of a lot better than ten percent.


It doesn't help with the tightening of chest muscles, but when the airways start to swell coffee (caffeine) can help because it naturally constricts small blood vessels, which cuts down on airway swelling and helps you breathe better. It's the same reaction that makes your blood pressure spike when you have a cup of coffee, but in an asthmatic's case, the benefits are worth it. It's like having your sinuses swell up - constrict the blood flow to them and the swelling goes down. Same thing with your bronchial tubes, if they are irritated and you are asthmatic they will swell dramatically, so anything that can reduce the swelling will alleviate the symptoms.
 
2012-05-22 10:03:51 PM  

Loren: That nurse should be up on attempted murder charges. She knows the threat, she didn't call 911. It's her duty to provide medical aid.


Mis-feasance: rendering the incorrect aid.
Mal-feasance: rendering the correct aid improperly.
Non-feasance: failure to render aid.

The nurse is guilty of the last one. Doubly so if she didn't cal 9-1-1. Her Nursing License needs to be revoked and could possibly be, if the parents push the issue.
 
2012-05-22 10:04:39 PM  
Since it's Tuesday Night on Fark...

Here is an arrest photo of the mother taken last year for possession.
Link

This otta stir the pot a bit.


/welcome
 
2012-05-22 10:06:24 PM  

solokumba: Since it's Tuesday Night on Fark...

Here is an arrest photo of the mother taken last year for possession.
Link

This otta stir the pot a bit.


/welcome


Would!
 
2012-05-22 10:06:29 PM  

TV's Vinnie: "I want to press child endangerment charges for something they did to my son," Rudi said in the 911 call.

I hope she wins the case. I hope she wins big.

I hope the "nurse" will end up in a job more suited to her skills, like spinning till she's dizzy or eating her own boogers.


It's not entirely the nurse's fault though. I think she should have winged it if his name was on the puffer and if the attack was as bad as in the article, but its easy to say what we'd do if we were there. The school district needs to change the terms of that contract so that qualified nurses/administrators can prevent shiat like this in the future. The nurse does sound pretty shiatty in article though.
 
2012-05-22 10:06:31 PM  

Silverstaff: When the hell did schools go from reasonable to pants-on-head retarded? It's like the world woke up one morning and everything changed.



Well, blame the helicopter parents and school boards who are scared to do anything useful. And also blame anything that results in dumbing down the population.

Basically blame everything.

Politicians want to be so hard on 'crime' they enacted all the stupid Zero tolerance rules. So, we get people in trouble when their child draws a picture of a gun.

We're farked. School is a joke. No child left behind!
 
2012-05-22 10:08:00 PM  
It is felony assault and battery, denial of access to prescribed lifesaving emergency medicine. Under Federal and State laws the school DOESN'T NEED to have a piece of paper. The nurse needs charged with attempted murder.
The policy on these materials is actually that the child will not be allowed at school without proof of prescription.

Under current Florida law if someone takes my inhaler from me I get to kill them on the spot if I feel the need to do so.


Coffee NO
Cold water NO
Breathing through constricted space NO
Cold air NO
Moisture/Dryness NO
Mist of alcohol SOMETIMES
Benadril in huge doses OFTEN
Nsaids NO
 
2012-05-22 10:08:01 PM  

solokumba: Since it's Tuesday Night on Fark...

Here is an arrest photo of the mother taken last year for possession.
Link

This otta stir the pot a bit.


/welcome


She has a healthy case of penis nose. Remember that bad Dan Aykroyd movie? Yah that one.
 
2012-05-22 10:09:13 PM  

solokumba: Since it's Tuesday Night on Fark...

Here is an arrest photo of the mother taken last year for possession.
Link

This otta stir the pot a bit.


/welcome


I hit that.... with a shovel...
 
2012-05-22 10:09:13 PM  

Fear_and_Loathing: Unfortunately, the law is the law and people who are charged with the care of children are under very strict laws. I ran residential programs for youth and the law is quite clear. If the paperwork is not in order, then the drugs are not allowed onsite, nor can they be administered. Often parents do not fill out the required paperwork and it is their laziness that puts the child in danger. Not everyone is covered by the good Sam laws. Professionals are not for example. Likewise if you are trained in CPR and !1st Aid, you must perform up to the standards of your training.

Many times we had to reject meds on site, because it was illegal for us to have them onsite or make them available. The Nurse followed the law, the parents made the drug unavailable.

That being said, if you are not a professional and want to administer a controlled drug, well you are probably free and clear. YMMV.


All the above are absolute lies.
 
2012-05-22 10:09:25 PM  

hypocaffeinemia: I don't know the details of the article's scenario, but I've seen many a nurse who is afraid to operate in the legal grey area and choose "by-the-book" protecting their license over doing what is best for the patient.


I'm not sure what book contains the protocol "1) lock patient in room 2) twiddle thumbs". 'cause it sounds to me like that's a sucky book. Maybe they should get a new book.

Basically I agree that this story is like a fractal of fark ups, at least if TFA is reasonably accurate. At the innermost layer of this onion of fark ups, we have the policies that mean that a prescription isn't sufficient and you also need parental signatures. Building on top of that is the fark up that they could have gotten to where they are without that authorization in place. (That could fall on the shoulders of the parents, the school, or both; not enough information to know for sure.) But the big fark-up anvil falling from the sky to crush the fark-up union is the failure to call 911.

I'm sympathetic with the position of the nurse in terms of administering the medication; she's not responsible for the fark-up onion (probably), and is sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place. But I don't understand not calling 911 for a case of reasonably severe breathing distress.
 
2012-05-22 10:09:28 PM  

One Bad Apple: [www.moviesonline.ca image 400x300]


"You know Billy, what worries me is how your mother is going to take this."

How many schools still have an actual nurse anymore ?

"The best thing we can do is go on with our daily routine."

 
2012-05-22 10:10:50 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com
Should have filled out the 27b/6

/Tuttle, not Buttle
 
2012-05-22 10:11:37 PM  

FizixJunkee: Lsherm: Selesky said the district is looking into whether proper procedures were followed by the school, and while nurses can't give medications without the proper authorization, it is district policy to call 911 when a student cannot breath

After reading the article and this thread, when, exactly, did breath become the same farking word as breathe? Or are all you people just farking stupid?


It's like "lose" and "loose."


So we're going with stupid, then? I was actually hoping the Webster's folks had gotten together and made another adjustment I simply didn't know about.
 
2012-05-22 10:12:01 PM  
First, do no harm?
 
2012-05-22 10:12:30 PM  

Soymilk: FizixJunkee: \\for some reason, it only seems to strike boys in my family

Now that is interesting. I am sorry for the pain asthma have inflicted on your family, I was an asthmatic child myself, but I had not heard of asthma having gender-specific heritability. I don't know how old you are or if you have had/planning to have children, but is this something you can have checked at a geneticist? IDK as I don't have a GED in Genetic Counseling, just wondering...


In my family bronchial ailments, including asthma seem to afflict females more than males, but only from my dad's side of the family.
 
2012-05-22 10:12:50 PM  

solokumba: Here is an arrest photo of the mother taken last year for possession.
Link



upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-05-22 10:13:36 PM  
Very simple solution nurstard: "Gee, Tommy, your form is missing its signature. I'm going to leave your inhaler on the counter top and turn away to check the time and date."
 
2012-05-22 10:15:18 PM  

GAT_00: Its like this to reduce costs and occurance of lawsuits by removing any potential ambiguity.


Oh, yes, because the school won't have any lawsuits if the KID farkING DIES.
 
2012-05-22 10:15:41 PM  

prjindigo: All the above are absolute lies.


But it's on the internet! Nobody ever lies on the internet!
 
2012-05-22 10:15:53 PM  

ordinarysteve: It's not entirely the nurse's fault though


But it is. If someone is not able to breathe, you call 911 if you are unable to help.

She stood by, locked the door, and watched him suffocate.

She is a farking monster.
 
2012-05-22 10:18:10 PM  

evaned: hypocaffeinemia: I don't know the details of the article's scenario, but I've seen many a nurse who is afraid to operate in the legal grey area and choose "by-the-book" protecting their license over doing what is best for the patient.

I'm not sure what book contains the protocol "1) lock patient in room 2) twiddle thumbs". 'cause it sounds to me like that's a sucky book. Maybe they should get a new book.
But I don't understand not calling 911 for a case of reasonably severe breathing distress.


I'm reserving my judgment on why 911 wasn't called, etc, because the story provided in the article might not align with the facts. Having worked EMS in a past life prior to nursing and even in my current job, patients' and patients' families' perception of disease severity often does not line up with reality. "Severe asthma attack" may have been "5 minute coughing fit that got better when the kid calmed down" or even "misdiagnosed panic attack in student with previously diagnosed asthma". I've seen that last one personally, and it actually fits the story equally well. Note how there is no mention of the mother calling 911 after finding her son presumably unconscious on the floor or the student receiving treatment at a local hospital afterwards in the story. Also, if he was passing out from his attack, how would he know if someone were locking the door.


The story's fishy on both sides.
 
2012-05-22 10:18:52 PM  
The nurse needs to find a new profession. Obviously healthcare, or care in general, is not something she is capable of.

And while I indeed do not know the details of the mysterious paperwork, schools are really horrible at organizing these things. I had to resubmit medication authorizations six freaking times one year because they lost it, misfiled it, switched to a new system, blah blah blah.

This entire situation is ridiculous and makes me want to cockpunch every single person who brought up a frivilous complaint/lawsuit, and the nurse who violated the very basics of her training.

Her license needs to go. Now. Depraved indifference at the least.
 
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