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(Huffington Post)   Transgender soccer player still has great ball handling skills   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 27
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1353 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 May 2012 at 6:32 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-21 10:22:47 PM
For all of the things that South America gets wrong, they really do put the rest of the world to shame in tolerance for LGBT stuff.

I wonder, though, does she gain any significant athletic benefit from once being male? Or does the hormone therapy pretty much cancel it out?
 
2012-05-21 11:30:38 PM
I would become transgendered for my career except that women usually get paid less for what I do.
 
2012-05-22 12:14:52 AM

Because People in power are Stupid: I would become transgendered for my career except that women usually get paid less for what I do.


Does the cognitive dissonance hurt?
 
2012-05-22 12:21:18 AM
After being out of the game for eight years, Salman joined a team and has been shinning in the field ever since.

www.horrorstew.com
"Don't you mean 'Shining'?"
"Shh! Do ye want tae get sued?!"
 
2012-05-22 06:29:07 AM

Theaetetus: After being out of the game for eight years, Salman joined a team and has been shinning in the field ever since.

[www.horrorstew.com image 583x368]
"Don't you mean 'Shining'?"
"Shh! Do ye want tae get sued?!"


Shins are very important when playing soccer.
 
2012-05-22 07:24:56 AM
Doesn't this defeat the purpose of separated sports?
 
2012-05-22 07:28:06 AM
"You're just afraid of my Guatemalaness, my natural heat. Did I mention my father was shaman of the tribe?"

i.huffpost.com
 
2012-05-22 07:44:30 AM
engrishfunny.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-05-22 07:51:21 AM

Faddy: Doesn't this defeat the purpose of separated sports?


This. I'm fine with transgendered people, but it seems incompatible with gender based segregation. If the reason for women's sports is that women's bodies aren't as physically strong as men's, you can't allow a woman who was "born in a man's body" on the team, because she still has that presumably stronger man's body (and from looking at those photos, I'd say that's an especially likely concern in her case).
 
2012-05-22 07:52:19 AM
Leave Fernando Torres alone!
 
2012-05-22 08:00:29 AM
Is s/he gay enough to join NAGAAA?
 
2012-05-22 08:01:18 AM
She is quite ... striking?
 
2012-05-22 08:16:42 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: cognitive dissonance


One could ask you the same question... except that you never offer up your own opinions for ridicule (and no doubt they are out there). You take the easy road of just taking pot shots at other people who actually hold an opinion and defend it.
 
2012-05-22 08:17:27 AM
All I know is, I've got a lot of balls.

/You're in another time zone!
 
2012-05-22 08:42:01 AM
Q: i.huffpost.com

...

A: images.sodahead.com
 
2012-05-22 09:19:11 AM
If people want to change their gender, that's fine with me, but I tend to think that male-to-female transgendered people competing in female-only sports really does give them an unfair physical advantage.

Men are excluded from women's sports not because of their gender self-identification as male, but because being biologically male tends to provide one with greater inherent size and strength, and therefore it's just not fair to have men and women compete against each other in most sports.
 
2012-05-22 10:09:17 AM

Doc Daneeka: If people want to change their gender, that's fine with me, but I tend to think that male-to-female transgendered people competing in female-only sports really does give them an unfair physical advantage.

Men are excluded from women's sports not because of their gender self-identification as male, but because being biologically male tends to provide one with greater inherent size and strength, and therefore it's just not fair to have men and women compete against each other in most sports.


Frankly, that makes sense and shows a stunning lack of both statistics and reality. The bell curves for size and strength significantly overlap. There are women who are bigger and stronger than men, too. In sports where size matters, we have weight classes for precisely this reason - it'd be unfair to have a super heavyweight boxer go up against a featherweight, but your naive analysis would say "they're both men, therefore it's fair."

We agree, groups should be divided based on "greater inherent size and strength." But only a moran would say that the tests for "size" and "strength" should be limited to a crotch inspection or a blood test, rather than say, a tape measure and a set of weights.
 
2012-05-22 10:39:52 AM

Theaetetus: We agree, groups should be divided based on "greater inherent size and strength." But only a moran would say that the tests for "size" and "strength" should be limited to a crotch inspection or a blood test, rather than say, a tape measure and a set of weights.


You're essentially arguing against the whole principle of gender-segregation in sports, and you accuse me of "naive analysis"?

And sure, some women are bigger/stronger/faster than some men. The best women athletes are better than the vast majority of men - but not better than the vast majority of male athletes in the same sport. There's a lot less "overlap" than you think.

This has been demonstrated time and again.

When Venus and Serena Williams were rising stars, and some of the best players in women's tennis, they boasted that they could beat any man ranked 200 or lower. A German player ranked in the mid-200s took them up on it, and promptly dispatched them in straight sets (and he wasn't even really trying - he was drinking beer and smoking cigarettes during the change-overs).

The US women's national hockey team consists of some of the best women's hockey players in the world, usually ranked #1 or #2. They have often in the past trained for Olympics by scheduling exhibitions against Minnesota boys' high school teams. The best women players in the world, grown adults, competing against random groups of teenage boys - and they often lose. The USWNT schedules exhibition games against teenage boys because that's about their level of competition. The Canadian women's national team schedules games against boys' midget AAA teams for the same reason.

I don't think I'm the one who's guilty of naive analysis here. Gender segregation in sports exists for a sound reason, at least to anyone who cares about fairness and a level playing field.
 
2012-05-22 10:45:32 AM

Doc Daneeka: Theaetetus: We agree, groups should be divided based on "greater inherent size and strength." But only a moran would say that the tests for "size" and "strength" should be limited to a crotch inspection or a blood test, rather than say, a tape measure and a set of weights.

You're essentially arguing against the whole principle of gender-segregation in sports, and you accuse me of "naive analysis"?


Interesting - merely disagreeing with an institutional practice makes one automatically naive?
Pff... Those Abolitionists - what a bunch of naive nellies.

And sure, some women are bigger/stronger/faster than some men. The best women athletes are better than the vast majority of men - but not better than the vast majority of male athletes in the same sport. There's a lot less "overlap" than you think.

This has been demonstrated time and again.

When Venus and Serena Williams were rising stars, and some of the best players in women's tennis, they boasted that they could beat any man ranked 200 or lower. A German player ranked in the mid-200s took them up on it, and promptly dispatched them in straight sets (and he wasn't even really trying - he was drinking beer and smoking cigarettes during the change-overs).

The US women's national hockey team consists of some of the best women's hockey players in the world, usually ranked #1 or #2. They have often in the past trained for Olympics by scheduling exhibitions against Minnesota boys' high school teams. The best women players in the world, grown adults, competing against random groups of teenage boys - and they often lose. The USWNT schedules exhibition games against teenage boys because that's about their level of competition. The Canadian women's national team schedules games against boys' midget AAA teams for the same reason.

I don't think I'm the one who's guilty of naive analysis here. Gender segregation in sports exists for a sound reason, at least to anyone who cares about fairness and a level playing field.


... and? You're right, you've successfully shown that size and strength matter. Mind you, I agreed with those points, and stated them myself.
However, you've failed to connect size and strength to gender segregation, and even undermined it, noting that "some women are bigger/stronger/faster than some men. The best women athletes are better than the vast majority of men."

Based on those statements, your conclusion is invalid: segregation in sports based on gender is sexist and doesn't support "fairness and a level playing field". Segregation in sports based on size and strength would. Accordingly, anyone who cares about fairness and a level playing field would not advocate for gender segregation.
 
2012-05-22 11:05:18 AM

Theaetetus: Based on those statements, your conclusion is invalid: segregation in sports based on gender is sexist and doesn't support "fairness and a level playing field". Segregation in sports based on size and strength would. Accordingly, anyone who cares about fairness and a level playing field would not advocate for gender segregation.


Segregation only works to the point people care about it. People care about separating men and women, and they care about size differences in combat sports. It doesn't matter why, that's just how it is.

No one cares about "under 6' basketball" or "midget pole vaulting".
 
2012-05-22 11:46:58 AM
suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com

/you owe me keyboard subby.
 
2012-05-22 12:10:40 PM

Faddy: Doesn't this defeat the purpose of separated sports?


Yeah, because now every guy will want to do it.
 
2012-05-22 02:11:56 PM
sharetv.org

If they wont let you play, become someone else!
 
2012-05-22 05:00:38 PM
"Miranda Salman was born a man. Today she is one of the stars of an all women soccer team."

www.supamovs.com

Well, durr.
 
2012-05-22 07:37:59 PM

God-is-a-Taco: For all of the things that South America gets wrong, they really do put the rest of the world to shame in tolerance for LGBT stuff.

I wonder, though, does she gain any significant athletic benefit from once being male? Or does the hormone therapy pretty much cancel it out?


Men have narrower pelvises and are faster. Males have genetically bigger, stronger muscles. hormone therapy may stunt some of that, but not all.
 
2012-05-22 08:37:39 PM
She was a professional soccer player as a man. Of course she is going to dominate as a woman.

As much as someone might want to argue it's a size and strength thing, it's not. It's a gender (not gender identity, but gender by DNA) thing. Look at Mugsy Bouges. In his heyday he could smoke women much taller, stronger than him, probably could today.

I would say your average high school varsity team could hang with (if not beat) a WNBA all-star team, and on average those women would be larger.
 
2012-05-22 10:15:55 PM

octopied: God-is-a-Taco: For all of the things that South America gets wrong, they really do put the rest of the world to shame in tolerance for LGBT stuff.

I wonder, though, does she gain any significant athletic benefit from once being male? Or does the hormone therapy pretty much cancel it out?

Men have narrower pelvises and are faster. Males have genetically bigger, stronger muscles. hormone therapy may stunt some of that, but not all.



For the most part it's hormonal, not genetics. Testosterone is going to play the largest part in terms of muscle mass than genetics is. Remove the testicles and you remove her biggest producer of testosterone (technically, the adrenal glands produce a weak androgen in males and females, but that's not going to make a difference). There's a reason that sports players take anabolic steroids, and what you're concerned of is why.

If it was just genetics, I would expect to see female sports overrun with women who have androgen insensitivity disorder because, hey, they're genetically and gonadally male. However, since they lack the receptor for 5-DHT they develop along female lines despite having a Y chromosome and testicles. This condition is normally diagnosed when the "female" never has a menstrual period (primary amenorrhea). However we aren't seeing this.

/We should ban women with polycystic ovary disease since they have a higher testosterone level than normal women. You know... for consistency.
 
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