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(AOL)   "Nobody's hiring" and other lies you tell yourself to justify staying on the dole   (jobs.aol.com) divider line 131
    More: Asinine, job searches, cover letters, web application  
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3014 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 May 2012 at 5:24 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-21 07:17:04 PM

Hyjamon: Good, but some questions (that you or I cannot answer without test subjects and some IRB documents for them to sign) is the following:

if you could solve this without using excel, did you really need to solve it using excel?

if you cannot solve this without using excel, could you use excel to solve it?


It took me a few seconds to solve it in my head. It would probably take me a few minutes to solve it in Excel.
 
2012-05-21 07:18:12 PM

weiserfireman: Hyjamon: I can kinda see two issues and have some questions. Are the applicants allowed to use calculators on the test? if they are tripped up in how to work with decimals, is it because the do not understand place values when doing it by hand or because they can't type something correct into the calculator?

and what type of topics/problems to solve would you label "high school trig"?

again, not being snippy, honestly curious

They are allowed to use a calculator. It baffles me too. I can't imagine using not passing a math test where I can use a calculator.

It's been 8 years since I have seen the test, so I am working from memory here, but I think there are two or three questions where we ask them to use trig to figure out the missing angle on a triangle given the length of the sides, or figure out a length given an angle and the length of the other two sides.

It is a 25 question test, we require 80% to pass. If the applicant completely skips the trig questions and get all the other questions right, they can still pass the test.

Our State Department of Labor helped develop the test and proctors it for us. It has been the same test for over 15 years now.


if they cannot use a calculator to add/subtract decimals, then they probably fail at data entry and you don't want them on your machines.

if they can solve a Side-Angle-Side problem (or any other variant SSA, ASA, SSS, AAS,etc) then they are most likely college bound and have no clue of what a CNC job is or have "higher" aspirations of working for the NSA, becoming and engineer, NASA, etc.

Again, I teach college mathematics and if you have already mastered trig upon entering college, you are on a good path for a STEM major and may see such a job as beneath you (I don't agree with this sentiment, just sharing my experience). May I ask what is the starting salary for a CNC operator?
 
2012-05-21 07:23:16 PM

John Nash: Where's the guy who always complains about how he can't get a job and then ignores all the advice thrown at him?


He's a few comments up, claiming he hasn't found a job in two years.
 
2012-05-21 07:27:46 PM

ManateeGag: I have a friend who is trying to find work, even if it's just low paying, just to be making something, and people keep telling him that he's overqualified. so is he a lazy slob for not finding work even though no one is willing to hire him because he has too much experience on his resume?


Sounds like your friend isn't properly tailoring his resume for the positions he/she is applying for.
 
2012-05-21 07:42:32 PM
There's plenty of people hiring. Fry cooks with Bachelor's degrees are in high demand.
 
2012-05-21 07:55:38 PM

Hyjamon: downstairs: Hyjamon: I need two numbers that add to equal 11 and multiply to equal 30. Please explain to me how to use excel or a calculator to solve this problem

A. That sort of question never comes up in the real world beyond video games.

B. I use excel all the time for questions like this.

C. The answer is 6 and 5. I used excel to get this very quickly. Had two cels with. One with X one with 11-X. Then two other cels, one added them, one multiplied them.

In the cel with X... I just manually changed it to 1... 2... 3... 4... 5... 6.... bingo!

Good, but some questions (that you or I cannot answer without test subjects and some IRB documents for them to sign) is the following:

if you could solve this without using excel, did you really need to solve it using excel?

if you cannot solve this without using excel, could you use excel to solve it?

you created a cell that had the formula X-11, you would only do this because you realize some number plus X would have to equal 11, so you already applied the idea of formula solving Y+X =11, where Y is the user input value. then you created another cell that used the formula of "=X(11-X)"

again, if you were not good at using formulas without excel, how would you know how to create the formula in the cell?

I would argue, you are good at excel because you know algebra, you are not good at algebra because you know excel.

/why not create a column that lists all the integers(type 1,2,3, then highlight and drag the corner down to have excel autofill); create the "=11-X", "X+(11-X") and "X*(11-X)" formulas and then highlight and drag the corner down until you found the row with the results instead of typing each test value in? (okay, kinda being snarky here)


Not snarky, I get what you're saying.
 
2012-05-21 07:59:40 PM

Hyjamon: weiserfireman: Hyjamon: I can kinda see two issues and have some questions. Are the applicants allowed to use calculators on the test? if they are tripped up in how to work with decimals, is it because the do not understand place values when doing it by hand or because they can't type something correct into the calculator?

and what type of topics/problems to solve would you label "high school trig"?

again, not being snippy, honestly curious

They are allowed to use a calculator. It baffles me too. I can't imagine using not passing a math test where I can use a calculator.

It's been 8 years since I have seen the test, so I am working from memory here, but I think there are two or three questions where we ask them to use trig to figure out the missing angle on a triangle given the length of the sides, or figure out a length given an angle and the length of the other two sides.

It is a 25 question test, we require 80% to pass. If the applicant completely skips the trig questions and get all the other questions right, they can still pass the test.

Our State Department of Labor helped develop the test and proctors it for us. It has been the same test for over 15 years now.

if they cannot use a calculator to add/subtract decimals, then they probably fail at data entry and you don't want them on your machines.

if they can solve a Side-Angle-Side problem (or any other variant SSA, ASA, SSS, AAS,etc) then they are most likely college bound and have no clue of what a CNC job is or have "higher" aspirations of working for the NSA, becoming and engineer, NASA, etc.

Again, I teach college mathematics and if you have already mastered trig upon entering college, you are on a good path for a STEM major and may see such a job as beneath you (I don't agree with this sentiment, just sharing my experience). May I ask what is the starting salary for a CNC operator?


My high school of 2,500 people had exactly 1 Trig class. There were less than 20 other kids in my class.
 
2012-05-21 08:00:04 PM
i.ytimg.com
 
2012-05-21 08:09:50 PM

kwame: John Nash: Where's the guy who always complains about how he can't get a job and then ignores all the advice thrown at him?

He's a few comments up, claiming he hasn't found a job in two years.


Nice use of the term "claiming." But yes, I have been unemployed since May 21, 2010. I was laid off by JPMorgan during a reorg. I worked there 12 years. Unfortunately, I moved across the country to a new city without any contacts soon after, so I basically don't have a network to help me get hired in this area. The networks I have are in DC and San Diego, and it seems that companies would rather hire a local person than pay for relo. So I'm farked. I'm going to get a temp job to help at least bring in some income (unemployment ended in December--VA has lower unemployment than WA, so I didn't get 99 weeks like everyone said I would). If I don't land a real job by the end of the year, I'm going back to school to get my teacher's license. I got my start at Chase as a temp (I wowed them because I'm not an idiot and I learn quickly) and that translated into 12 years at the bank. So maybe lightning can strike twice for me. We'll see. Either way, I'll be making real progress this year.
 
2012-05-21 08:17:46 PM
img2-1.timeinc.net

You know, there are 20 million guys out of work in Manhattan alone just waiting for my job.
 
2012-05-21 08:26:40 PM

ventmonkey: I'm actually trying to hire, and having a very difficult time finding candidates. I believe there are a lot of people looking for a job, but probably not in IT. If anyone is looking for a job in Boston doing user interface/usability design or java web development, please let me know.


Would you give consideration to a candidate who is a Canadian citizen and meets the requirements for the relatively hassle-free TN status/visa under NAFTA?
 
2012-05-21 08:27:06 PM

weiserfireman: We are an out of the way rural company not willing to pay relocation expenses.



I think people would just rather be unemployed living in a better area than surrounded by meth addicts working for your company.
 
2012-05-21 08:27:32 PM

weiserfireman: We have openings for experience CNC machinists and high school grads, who can pass a basic math test, willing to learn to be CNC machinists.

Good jobs in an employee owned company. I can understand not getting applicants for the experienced guys. We are an out of the way rural company not willing to pay relocation expenses. But we can't get applicants for the trainee positions. Funny thing is some of these kids tells us, without knowing anything about the job, that they want to "work with computers". But most of them we lose at the math test or the drug test. I have had dozens of people who said they were looking for work, who refused to even attempt the math test.


I'd take you up on the offer if you weren't on the other side of the country. Used to be in school for engineering and then moved on to tool and die school where I graduated at the top of my class. Got scads of Solidworks experience to boot.
 
2012-05-21 08:29:56 PM

Hyjamon: I need two numbers that add to equal 11 and multiply to equal 30. Please explain to me how to use excel or a calculator to solve this problem

/not being overly snarky, just if students don't understand how to solve 5x=20 for x, they really struggle with cell references and equations in general.


I'm essentially mathematically illiterate. I dropped out of freshman algebra in college at the advice of the prof. (He suggested I drop it before he had to flunk me.) They lost me the first week at "factor this equation". (I only passed high school algebra because the teacher didn't want to see me again.)

But much the same as how downstairs illustrated it, I can usually figure my way out of a math problem by taking unconventional approaches. Turns out I'm pretty good at "real world" math problems. When I was a sales guy in a retail store, I could figure percent discounts in my head. As a construction inspector I did a lot of area and volume calculations. I was doing very involved stuff with Lotus 123 back in the late '80s. I even did a little construction surveying and layout, although I just programmed my HP calculator to do all the trig stuff for me.

Something like a pre-employment math test for a CAM job, I could pass if I had a calculator. But solving 5x=20 for x? I don't know how to do it the right way, but I could figure it out one way or another. (And I'm pretty sure I could pick up the basics to run a CAM rig pretty quickly.)

/tech writer
//unemployed for over 2 years in LA after 18 years with one company...saturated market and minimum wage pay scales
 
2012-05-21 08:31:59 PM
Doh! "CAM" should read "CNC".
 
2012-05-21 08:37:01 PM
Maybe Nobody, Inc. is hiring and people are just confused
 
2012-05-21 08:41:09 PM

Biner: Hyjamon: I need two numbers that add to equal 11 and multiply to equal 30. Please explain to me how to use excel or a calculator to solve this problem

/not being overly snarky, just if students don't understand how to solve 5x=20 for x, they really struggle with cell references and equations in general.

I'm essentially mathematically illiterate. I dropped out of freshman algebra in college at the advice of the prof. (He suggested I drop it before he had to flunk me.) They lost me the first week at "factor this equation". (I only passed high school algebra because the teacher didn't want to see me again.)

But much the same as how downstairs illustrated it, I can usually figure my way out of a math problem by taking unconventional approaches. Turns out I'm pretty good at "real world" math problems. When I was a sales guy in a retail store, I could figure percent discounts in my head. As a construction inspector I did a lot of area and volume calculations. I was doing very involved stuff with Lotus 123 back in the late '80s. I even did a little construction surveying and layout, although I just programmed my HP calculator to do all the trig stuff for me.

Something like a pre-employment math test for a CAM job, I could pass if I had a calculator. But solving 5x=20 for x? I don't know how to do it the right way, but I could figure it out one way or another. (And I'm pretty sure I could pick up the basics to run a CAM rig pretty quickly.)

/tech writer
//unemployed for over 2 years in LA after 18 years with one company...saturated market and minimum wage pay scales


Yep. You got me 100%. I got kicked out of 11th grade algebra. But I can figure out anything dealing with numbers. Just in a bizarre unconventional way. It's kinda fun actually.
 
2012-05-21 09:02:57 PM
I need a new job, my current position is eating my brain.
 
2012-05-21 09:05:24 PM
Yeah, there are a lot of jobs if you can afford to pick your family up and move, and your spouse quits their job. And of course, you'll be able to sell your house without a loss, and do all this while still paying all your bills. And your children will certainly be able to up-and-leave mid-semester, and of course will be more than willing to ditch all their friends.

Shut up, subtard
 
2012-05-21 09:31:42 PM
If you've been out of work for a few months they think there must be something wrong with you and businesses will not want to hire you. They'd rather hire someone who is already working and pay them more, because if they are still working in this environment they must be good.
 
2012-05-21 09:32:11 PM
My high school required trig. Most people had at least some calculus before they graduated.

The first physics class I took there banned calculators to stop you from leaning on them and instead focusing on the actual formulas and how to apply them. You had to show your work and have your answer to the nearest power of 10.
 
2012-05-21 09:34:24 PM

Macinfarker: Yeah, there are a lot of jobs if you can afford to pick your family up and move, and your spouse quits their job. And of course, you'll be able to sell your house without a loss, and do all this while still paying all your bills. And your children will certainly be able to up-and-leave mid-semester, and of course will be more than willing to ditch all their friends.

Shut up, subtard


Heck, just moving is a big hurdle. I would have done it by now if i could.
 
2012-05-21 09:43:41 PM

TheGreatGazoo: My high school required trig. Most people had at least some calculus before they graduated.

The first physics class I took there banned calculators to stop you from leaning on them and instead focusing on the actual formulas and how to apply them. You had to show your work and have your answer to the nearest power of 10.


My physics class banned calculators since I'd sit there and play/program games the entire time. I moved on to scribbling down a bunch of crap in my notebook.

Teachers: Never tell students that you'll replace any grade with their final exam grade if it's higher. Even though I thought it was awesome to go from a 27 to a 99 for the semester in about an hour.
 
2012-05-21 09:58:44 PM

intelligent comment below: I think people would just rather be unemployed living in a better area than surrounded by meth addicts working for your company.


You may want to relocate to some Atoll out in the pacific if you really feel strongly about getting away from the drug users.

Good luck finding a job, though as having a job typically involves corresponding with humans.
 
2012-05-21 10:00:23 PM
CNC discussion is very interesting.

/bachelors in accounting from 2010
//seven months working in a job shop
///need to study up on mah codez
 
2012-05-21 10:01:09 PM

downstairs: 80% or so of all businesses fail within a year.


No. According to SBA stats it's about 20% that close in 2 years, and 50% in 5 years. Also note that "close" does not mean "fail". A lot of businesses close because the owner is bored with it, or decided they could make more money doing something else. That's different than failing, as in running out of money and having no choice but to shutter.

Given that there are a fair number of people who try to start completely unprofitable businesses, or are really trying to deduct hobby expenses, those stats aren't bad.
 
2012-05-21 10:01:17 PM

HeadLever: intelligent comment below: I think people would just rather be unemployed living in a better area than surrounded by meth addicts working for your company.

You may want to relocate to some Atoll out in the pacific if you really feel strongly about getting away from the drug users.

Good luck finding a job, though as having a job typically involves corresponding with humans.


The thing about drug users is that they are normally easy to avoid if you do the early to bed early to rise schedule. They may be up at 6AM but they wont be for long.
 
2012-05-21 10:02:00 PM

weiserfireman: We have openings for experience CNC machinists and high school grads, who can pass a basic math test, willing to learn to be CNC machinists.

Good jobs in an employee owned company. I can understand not getting applicants for the experienced guys. We are an out of the way rural company not willing to pay relocation expenses. But we can't get applicants for the trainee positions. Funny thing is some of these kids tells us, without knowing anything about the job, that they want to "work with computers". But most of them we lose at the math test or the drug test. I have had dozens of people who said they were looking for work, who refused to even attempt the math test.


I *just* finished my CAD/CAM course at UMaine (got an A... STOP LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT!) and my instructor said that not many Mechanical Engineers even bother with it anymore, as Surfcam does a lot of the work for them. Oddly enough when I coded the lines personally, it was about 1/3 the length of Surfcam's and actually had a tighter tolerance. Then again I'm someone who believes in hand coding HTML for a couple years before switching to Dreamweaver or the like.

The downside is if you don't constantly practice it, you lose it pretty quickly (like thermodynamics). I'd be interested in such a position, especially since I can actually design in 3D too (we use Solid Edge, but after Steam's Hammer Editor, nothing scares me anymore). I can't believe people are passing up an opportunity like that one.
 
2012-05-21 10:17:29 PM

HeadLever: You may want to relocate to some Atoll out in the pacific if you really feel strongly about getting away from the drug users.

Good luck finding a job, though as having a job typically involves corresponding with humans.



The topic here is back country hicks who are heavily into meth. That doesn't apply at all to "corresponding with humans"
 
2012-05-21 10:27:53 PM

groppet: Hell I wish my company would send me overqualified people. The people they do send me cant even sort mail or fix basic jams in copiers.


Humph. Well do you know what "pc load letter" means?
 
2012-05-21 10:30:00 PM

intelligent comment below: The topic here is back country hicks who are heavily into meth.


As opposed to urbanite hipsters that are cranked up on speed? Lord knows that the suburban stoners don't have jobs. You never have to worry about working around them, unless you work the late shift at Taco Bell.
 
2012-05-21 10:42:27 PM
I dunno. As I look through the job listings, I think:

"Not qualified"
"Not my field"
"No experience"
"Not enough education"
"Physical requirements I can't satisfy due to physical ailments"
"Out of travel range"

Then I get the interview.

300 applicants for this crappy job, and I don't qualify because it's an employer's market and they can pay some newbie a couple dollars less than me. No hire. Begin again.
 
2012-05-21 10:49:37 PM

ajgeek: weiserfireman: We have openings for experience CNC machinists and high school grads, who can pass a basic math test, willing to learn to be CNC machinists.

Good jobs in an employee owned company. I can understand not getting applicants for the experienced guys. We are an out of the way rural company not willing to pay relocation expenses. But we can't get applicants for the trainee positions. Funny thing is some of these kids tells us, without knowing anything about the job, that they want to "work with computers". But most of them we lose at the math test or the drug test. I have had dozens of people who said they were looking for work, who refused to even attempt the math test.

I *just* finished my CAD/CAM course at UMaine (got an A... STOP LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT!) and my instructor said that not many Mechanical Engineers even bother with it anymore, as Surfcam does a lot of the work for them. Oddly enough when I coded the lines personally, it was about 1/3 the length of Surfcam's and actually had a tighter tolerance. Then again I'm someone who believes in hand coding HTML for a couple years before switching to Dreamweaver or the like.

The downside is if you don't constantly practice it, you lose it pretty quickly (like thermodynamics). I'd be interested in such a position, especially since I can actually design in 3D too (we use Solid Edge, but after Steam's Hammer Editor, nothing scares me anymore). I can't believe people are passing up an opportunity like that one.


It was standard for the course at the job shop I worked at to draw things up in Solidworks and then use CAMWorks to write out the program. You have a 3D visual of the part, a blueprint, and the NC code stored on a server for future use or modification. If you've got to make lots of roughing cuts it's just faster that way, especially when you want to incorporate curves into the roughing algorithm so you keep a constant load on your end mills. Sure it's going to be shorter in length, but code space isn't too limiting on more modern controllers like it used to be. In any case, you should be able to tell the CAM program to use circular interpolation instead of linear to lower your code size, as well as get a little better finish on round stuff. CAMWorks was also pretty nice with Solidworks configurations so you could program one and have programs for all of them.

Or do whatever way is faster for you. I'm more of a lathe guy anyway lol.
 
2012-05-21 10:55:57 PM

HeadLever: As opposed to urbanite hipsters that are cranked up on speed? Lord knows that the suburban stoners don't have jobs. You never have to worry about working around them, unless you work the late shift at Taco Bell.



Huh? Hipsters on speed? I don't know what planet you live on.
 
2012-05-21 11:53:01 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-05-21 11:54:44 PM
TommyymmoT
Actually, there are quite a few decent jobs open in my area (within 30 miles), especially in high tech, and nano tech.
I also live in NYC part of the time, and if you can't find some type of work there, you're probably not looking very hard.

You might not be able to replace your job that gave you health, retirement, and good vacation benefits, but those companies are few and far between these days, so you might as well stop holding your breath.

ShawnDoc: As someone who has participated in helping fill some vacancies at our company the last few months, I can assure you that a cover letter is worth your time. Even an obviously generic one with the company name cut and pasted in.

Totally agreed. I also take 5 minutes to look up info about the company so that I'll have something more to say than the usual patter.
It also makes it look like like you're actually interested in their company, and didn't just pull their name out of a hat.

Problem is, some times you do not know the company. I got hired twice off of Craigslist. You post to them (even with writing along
with your resume/CV how you fit 100% for their qualifications). AND most companies (smaller ones here in PHX anyway) are just out
to screw you over. Hired at $17 hr? Sweet. Unclassified worker and was salaried (10+ hr days the norm, and REALLY took notice
after a 15 hour day and I'm like WTF???) Kept track of my hours. Looked up the specifics of the "definition" of "exempt".
Got let go after 3 months (was warned people in my position don't last very long).
Took 'em to small claims court. Judge was like WTF I used to own a business myself pay him overtime!! I'm like thinking SWEET!!
Got $700 out of the bastards.

SNEAKY TIP: Copy and paste the job description from their website. Add it to a second page of your CV. Make the text WHITE.
Then their automatic keyword software puts you up to the front. AND, when some HR lackey prints it out, and gets a blank page,
they just shrug their head and curse the damn printer.
 
2012-05-22 12:01:57 AM
Following up is a good idea, but how you do it can make or break your chances of landing the job. Rather than sending an email or calling to remind them of your continued interest, send a handwritten thank you card to every person you met during the interview process.

Maybe my scope is limited, but this seems like an idea that has run its' course but is still brought up by alleged experts. Most HR departments are thrilled at the sight of unsolicited handwritten letters (for all they know it could be warning of a discriminatory practices suit) and managers just want to get back to their department and get the person they hired trained.
 
2012-05-22 12:05:13 AM
I work in a field that requires a professional degree, and when I went to school was basically told it was full employment forever. Since I graduated, the schools have been upping their intake in order to pay inflated teacher salaries and buy fancy equipment, and a large national company that rhymes with "Fanfield" has been corporatizing the job- making services too cheap on the front end and then screwing customers on the back, forcing everyone to work much longer days, and getting our national organization to approve Mexican graduates to work for them. We're flooded and when the economy tanked, suddenly it became a biatch to find a job, even for very skilled people. It's the kind of job that kids identify with and want to be when they grow up. Kinda not much fun telling them to find something else to do.
 
2012-05-22 12:07:10 AM

Jubeebee: TommyymmoT: It also makes it look like like you're actually interested in their company, and didn't just pull their name out of a hat.

The only time I was unemployed for more than a week (4 years ago), I hated this crap. No one I know is personally invested in what their employer does or makes, they're personally invested in having a job. Pretending to get excited about pipe cutting equipment to appease the lifer doing the interview felt dishonest.

I have skills, they have a need. Nobody's saving orphans here. But being honest doesn't get you a callback.


Asking that question screens losers who are only there to show up for a paycheck.

"Why did you choose us?" is my favorite question to ask.

The responses I get vary from, "Uh, the temp agency gave you my resume" or "I want to buy an X-Box" to "The job sounds interesting" or "I want to try something new". I'll take anything that at least shows a little bit of though, even a simple "Some guy I know once worked there".

If you can't even manage to care in the interview, you sure as hell won't care after I hire you. If you can't bother to take 10 seconds to google the company to find something that interests you before the interview, why even waste my time?
 
2012-05-22 12:16:19 AM
I need hundreds of ditches dug by next month. Where are the gaddam ditch diggers?
 
2012-05-22 12:33:07 AM
Not sure I understand #4. Being unemployed for pretty much any length of time seems to lead to automatic rejection by a lot of companies.

CSB:

I have a job and now and I'm waiting on a company to finish a background check. I'm assuming they're done and I'll have to wait another week or so because the job doesn't start for another month. At any rate, this is the first time somebody has asked if they could contact my current employer. I said no but they kept at it so I gave them some documentation that seems to be good enough. I'd like to think that the only people who wouldn't consider this sort of thing to be shockingly unprofessional work in HR, but I'd probably be wrong.

I realize refusing to hire the unemployed is perfectly legal. It's also a pretty stupid policy. Between that and rampant age discrimination (illegal but hard to prove) we're really farking over millions of people. The labor force participation rate hasn't been this bad in 30 years. I wonder why more people aren't bothered by that.
 
2012-05-22 12:42:30 AM

Botkin of the Yard: Not sure I understand #4. Being unemployed for pretty much any length of time seems to lead to automatic rejection by a lot of companies


It's more a comment on how you spent your time unemployed. Did you consult/do contract work/volunteer/scour sources for whatever work you could find (even work under the table in some circumstances) or did you wake up at two in the afternoon everyday and watch Springer?
 
2012-05-22 01:05:49 AM

John Nash: Hyjamon: Good, but some questions (that you or I cannot answer without test subjects and some IRB documents for them to sign) is the following:

if you could solve this without using excel, did you really need to solve it using excel?

if you cannot solve this without using excel, could you use excel to solve it?

It took me a few seconds to solve it in my head. It would probably take me a few minutes to solve it in Excel.


ok
Two numbers X and Y
X + Y = 36
X * Y = 280
 
2012-05-22 01:06:31 AM
Did pretty crappy in high school match, scraped by differential calculus on a miracle -I honestly didn't learn a thing, and it was my fault.

Went to college for a short, short time. Dropped out because I didn't know what I wanted to do.

Spent a few years working, got married, grew up, realized mechanical engineering careers interested me. Went back to school, kicking ass in classes now, honestly blown away at how awesome mathematics is, and "real world" problems are farking awesome after you get to a certain point.

Part of me is kicking myself for not taking this seriously as an 18-year-old, the other part of me realizes that it took time and several years of living before I could really appreciate hard math and STEM fields -something that didn't interest me in the least when I was a new HS grad.

Better late than never?

/moral of the story: none
 
2012-05-22 01:08:03 AM
Bah, math not match. Farking phones.
 
2012-05-22 01:24:39 AM
Ken VeryBigLiar

I don't think the majority of the unemployed (at least not the ones currently looking for work) are just sitting around and barely trying. The average length of unemployment is somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 weeks. Sure, people can come up with all sorts of creative ways to make it look like they're employed when they're not, but companies can probably see through this a lot of the time. Either way, we're clearly not seeing the long-term unemployed get back into the work force any faster than we were two years ago.

I take your point though. It's good to be able to put something on the resume. Eventually, some hiring manager might take pity on the desperate applicant. Frankly, I think the last three years has made me permanently terrified of ever being unemployed. Eventually things will improve though.
 
2012-05-22 01:32:13 AM
Here's a tip: don't lie on your resume. Two thirds of the candidates for technical positions that I've seen didn't have any anything remotely approaching what their resume claimed.
Tip #2: don't lie in the interview. If you don't know the answer but want to make an educated guess, say so. Don't guess with gusto and hope I won't see through the bluster.
Tip #3: Don't claim *you* did something merely because you were on a team, and somebody on the team did it.

Sending a theme here?
 
2012-05-22 01:48:58 AM

CujoQuarrel: John Nash: Hyjamon: Good, but some questions (that you or I cannot answer without test subjects and some IRB documents for them to sign) is the following:

if you could solve this without using excel, did you really need to solve it using excel?

if you cannot solve this without using excel, could you use excel to solve it?

It took me a few seconds to solve it in my head. It would probably take me a few minutes to solve it in Excel.

ok
Two numbers X and Y
X + Y = 36
X * Y = 280


not sure what you are going for here but what the hell: X = 18 + 2*sqrt(11) Y = 18 -2*sqrt(11)
 
2012-05-22 01:52:28 AM

ajgeek: weiserfireman: We have openings for experience CNC machinists and high school grads, who can pass a basic math test, willing to learn to be CNC machinists.

Good jobs in an employee owned company. I can understand not getting applicants for the experienced guys. We are an out of the way rural company not willing to pay relocation expenses. But we can't get applicants for the trainee positions. Funny thing is some of these kids tells us, without knowing anything about the job, that they want to "work with computers". But most of them we lose at the math test or the drug test. I have had dozens of people who said they were looking for work, who refused to even attempt the math test.

I *just* finished my CAD/CAM course at UMaine (got an A... STOP LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT!) and my instructor said that not many Mechanical Engineers even bother with it anymore, as Surfcam does a lot of the work for them. Oddly enough when I coded the lines personally, it was about 1/3 the length of Surfcam's and actually had a tighter tolerance. Then again I'm someone who believes in hand coding HTML for a couple years before switching to Dreamweaver or the like.

The downside is if you don't constantly practice it, you lose it pretty quickly (like thermodynamics). I'd be interested in such a position, especially since I can actually design in 3D too (we use Solid Edge, but after Steam's Hammer Editor, nothing scares me anymore). I can't believe people are passing up an opportunity like that one.


I googled average starting salary for CNC operators and got numbers in the range of 30-40k, which is not a bad starting salary for someone with a bachelors (or even an associates) in math to start with. Maybe you should try to post some advertisements stating that you are seeking math, science or related field majors to apply. They honestly might not know what CNC operators do and don't apply.
 
2012-05-22 03:06:39 AM

Botkin of the Yard: Either way, we're clearly not seeing the long-term unemployed get back into the work force any faster than we were two years ago.


Thank the businesses that are doing everything to avoid them. Once someone is classified as long-term, about the only thing that would help is to make it a protected class only removed by a very long period of directly hired, non-temporary, non-staffing agency FTE employment.

Botkin of the Yard: Eventually, some hiring manager might take pity on the desperate applicant.


The more likely case is that such doesn't exist. They'll be too busy trying to throw the handwaves of "competitiveness" and/or "skills mismatch" at the person.
 
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