Mock26: The Police did a good job. They were well organized and very good about not starting anything. They issued an order to disperse at least three times and the crowd did not disperse. So they set up their walls of riot police and would periodically start to herd the protesters out of the area. If the protesters pushed back the police would remove the individual and arrest them. And they were as gentle as possible about it, too. I actually saw a police officer giving water to one individual they arrested! The problem was with those few assholes out there who decided to attack the police. When that happened the police met force with greater force. Like I said, they did a good job.


And therein lies the crux of the problem. Giving orders neither required nor likely to be obeyed is a way to start trouble.

Never take your helmet off at a stick fight.

OWS baffles me. Are they just training people for the street? Why no helmets on the protesters...are they there just to be victims/martyrs afterwards?

Generation_D:
In before "No True Scotsman" arguments that 100% of those using Black Bloc are police undercover agent provocateurs




I was with you until I saw a grown man in overalls, no shirt, and a Pikachu backpack. This has to be a plant. Nobody could possibly leave the house looking this stupid. I don't want to live in a world where someone thought this was a good idea.

The powder blue helmuts mean these guys are under orders from the UNations! They are taking over the country!


/seriously tho, were Chicago's police helmets that color before the "gathering"?
_{//getting too old for this shiat}

"I've always wondered what would happen if you got a bunch of those SCA guys pissed off enough to go up against a bunch of riot cops."

They'd get stomped. Because the cops would break out the pepper spray and the flash bangs and rubber shot. And no amount of lame weekend drills and armor made in your moms basement out of used duct-work and supply from Michael's crafts would stop that beat down.

Also wtf did that cop not strap his helmet? Moran.

TheOther: OWS baffles me. Are they just training people for the street? Why no helmets on the protesters...are they there just to be victims/martyrs afterwards?

Seriously? Maybe they aren't there to start fights or do battle (unlike the peace officers). Think that's possible?

Rapmaster2000: Generation_D:
In before "No True Scotsman" arguments that 100% of those using Black Bloc are police undercover agent provocateurs




I was with you until I saw a grown man in overalls, no shirt, and a Pikachu backpack. This has to be a plant. Nobody could possibly leave the house looking this stupid. I don't want to live in a world where someone thought this was a good idea.


Cop looks like he's under orders to remove that dolt's ability to breed.

\I'm ok with that.

Rich Cream: TheOther: OWS baffles me. Are they just training people for the street? Why no helmets on the protesters...are they there just to be victims/martyrs afterwards?

Seriously? Maybe they aren't there to start fights or do battle (unlike the peace officers). Think that's possible?

They are standing up against the 1% and their armed police force. They should be ready to do battle.

superfudge73: [www.examiner.com image 400x347]

Salamay

+1, dead on.

Rich Cream: TheOther: OWS baffles me. Are they just training people for the street? Why no helmets on the protesters...are they there just to be victims/martyrs afterwards?

Seriously? Maybe they aren't there to start fights or do battle (unlike the peace officers). Think that's possible?

Yet there they are, doing those things.

Rich Cream: The powder blue helmuts mean these guys are under orders from the UNations! They are taking over the country!


/seriously tho, were Chicago's police helmets that color before the "gathering"?
//getting too old for this shiat

Yes.



And another thing - this is police brutality.

illegal.tender: Rich Cream: TheOther: OWS baffles me. Are they just training people for the street? Why no helmets on the protesters...are they there just to be victims/martyrs afterwards?

Seriously? Maybe they aren't there to start fights or do battle (unlike the peace officers). Think that's possible?

They are standing up against the 1% and their armed police force. They should be ready to do battle.

They aren't standing up to anybody. They just want the people in positions of authority to do their damn jobs. Too much corruption and it is poisoning our systems of governance.

Santa's Knee: Rich Cream: TheOther: OWS baffles me. Are they just training people for the street? Why no helmets on the protesters...are they there just to be victims/martyrs afterwards?

Seriously? Maybe they aren't there to start fights or do battle (unlike the peace officers). Think that's possible?

Yet there they are, doing those things.


This could be like that Zimmerman case. Who pushed who first?

/usually the cops push first when their unnecessary orders aren't followed.

Weaver95: A good shield wall will keep the enemy off the pikemen, let them do their jobs. cops hit the shield wall, the pikemen reach OVER the shieldwall and pick off individual cops pretty much at will.

And standard SCA shields will largely be immune to taser hits and rubber bullets. not saying you won't get banged up and/or bruised...but the impact won't affect you as badly as it would if you weren't armed and armored.

No, why do you think they have gas, flash bangs, high pressure water canons. Even if you have a gas mask on you're not gonna be holding up a shield for long. Plus they can just drive an armored truck into your formation.

Santa's Knee: Rich Cream: TheOther: OWS baffles me. Are they just training people for the street? Why no helmets on the protesters...are they there just to be victims/martyrs afterwards?

Seriously? Maybe they aren't there to start fights or do battle (unlike the peace officers). Think that's possible?

Yet there they are, doing those things.


This could be like that Zimmerman case. Who pushed who first?

/usually the cops push first when their unnecessary orders aren't followed.



thanks for the blue helmet pics!

Rich Cream
Santa's Knee: Rich Cream: TheOther: OWS baffles me. Are they just training people for the street? Why no helmets on the protesters...are they there just to be victims/martyrs afterwards?

Seriously? Maybe they aren't there to start fights or do battle (unlike the peace officers). Think that's possible?

Yet there they are, doing those things.


This could be like that Zimmerman case. Who pushed who first?

/usually the cops push first when their unnecessary orders aren't followed.

Maybe its the people determining which police orders are necessary or not.

sorry double post. weird, told me 34 seconds flood protection.....

One Shot Memtok: This is by far my favorite Chicago NATO picture so far. The look on that soldier's face made my day.

[twitpic.com image 600x399]

derpdeederp: Rich Cream
Santa's Knee: Rich Cream: TheOther: OWS baffles me. Are they just training people for the street? Why no helmets on the protesters...are they there just to be victims/martyrs afterwards?

Seriously? Maybe they aren't there to start fights or do battle (unlike the peace officers). Think that's possible?

Yet there they are, doing those things.


This could be like that Zimmerman case. Who pushed who first?

/usually the cops push first when their unnecessary orders aren't followed.

Maybe its the people determining which police orders are necessary or not.


That's what free people do. Decide who orders them around and for what reason. If a cop tells me to do something and I see no reason to do so I will challenge him on it. He knows I should and will tell me why, not punch me.

Fark it.

Let it all burn. Ancient Greece had its run, Babylon had its run, Rome had its run (twice). Let it burn and born anew.

justanotherfarkinfarker: Weaver95: A good shield wall will keep the enemy off the pikemen, let them do their jobs. cops hit the shield wall, the pikemen reach OVER the shieldwall and pick off individual cops pretty much at will.

And standard SCA shields will largely be immune to taser hits and rubber bullets. not saying you won't get banged up and/or bruised...but the impact won't affect you as badly as it would if you weren't armed and armored.

No, why do you think they have gas, flash bangs, high pressure water canons. Even if you have a gas mask on you're not gonna be holding up a shield for long. Plus they can just drive an armored truck into your formation.

Or they could just shoot yer ass.

Rich Cream: illegal.tender: Rich Cream: TheOther: OWS baffles me. Are they just training people for the street? Why no helmets on the protesters...are they there just to be victims/martyrs afterwards?

Seriously? Maybe they aren't there to start fights or do battle (unlike the peace officers). Think that's possible?

They are standing up against the 1% and their armed police force. They should be ready to do battle.

They aren't standing up to anybody. They just want the people in positions of authority to do their damn jobs. Too much corruption and it is poisoning our systems of governance.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure we're both saying the same thing.

So, these anti-war protesters are making things difficult at the meeting WHERE THE AFGHANISTAN DRAWDOWN IS BEING FINALIZED? You would tihink they'd send Obama, Merkel et al fruit baskets, notepads and little chocolates.

I really, really despise people who are too dumb to know when they've won.

unlikely: justanotherfarkinfarker: No, why do you think they have gas, flash bangs, high pressure water canons. Even if you have a gas mask on you're not gonna be holding up a shield for long. Plus they can just drive an armored truck into your formation.

Pretty sure those formations can open or move to let an armored vehicle pass and then just close up the hole in its wake.

Great, then they have a 12,000 pound armored vehicle with a turret mounted 40mm bean bag launcher to their rear. Good thinking.

illegal.tender: Rich Cream: illegal.tender: Rich Cream: TheOther: OWS baffles me. Are they just training people for the street? Why no helmets on the protesters...are they there just to be victims/martyrs afterwards?

Seriously? Maybe they aren't there to start fights or do battle (unlike the peace officers). Think that's possible?

They are standing up against the 1% and their armed police force. They should be ready to do battle.

They aren't standing up to anybody. They just want the people in positions of authority to do their damn jobs. Too much corruption and it is poisoning our systems of governance.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure we're both saying the same thing.

This.

Mishno: unlikely: justanotherfarkinfarker: No, why do you think they have gas, flash bangs, high pressure water canons. Even if you have a gas mask on you're not gonna be holding up a shield for long. Plus they can just drive an armored truck into your formation.

Pretty sure those formations can open or move to let an armored vehicle pass and then just close up the hole in its wake.

Great, then they have a 12,000 pound armored vehicle with a turret mounted 40mm bean bag launcher to their rear. Good thinking.

Testudo.

fireclown: So, these anti-war protesters are making things difficult at the meeting WHERE THE AFGHANISTAN DRAWDOWN IS BEING FINALIZED? You would tihink they'd send Obama, Merkel et al fruit baskets, notepads and little chocolates.

I really, really despise people who are too dumb to know when they've won.



Wanna know the real reason why it's over?



Watch the last ten minutes of THX-1138.

Rich Cream: The powder blue helmuts mean these guys are under orders from the UNations! They are taking over the country!


/seriously tho, were Chicago's police helmets that color before the "gathering"?
//getting too old for this shiat


They've always (decades anyway) been that colour. It matches their shirts and until the mid-late 70s, their cars. Look at the pictures from the 1968 riots, and you'll see the same colour helmets. The helmet is the only headgear they have that isn't dark blue; it and the cold-weather fur-lined hat with the ear flaps are also their only hats that lack the Sillitoe tartan (the chequerboard band).

unlikely: justanotherfarkinfarker: No, why do you think they have gas, flash bangs, high pressure water canons. Even if you have a gas mask on you're not gonna be holding up a shield for long. Plus they can just drive an armored truck into your formation.

Pretty sure those formations can open or move to let an armored vehicle pass and then just close up the hole in its wake.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd be in for an extremely rude physics lesson about how easily two or three grown men with a reinforced set of inclined planes can flip over a couple ton vehicle. If a couple of kids can flip cargo vans easily, then a squad of shieldmen with strong shields would have NO trouble getting them under the tires and using leverage to flip an APC, particular if you can't drive too carefully because of the several feet of wooden pike being thrust through your viewports.

Not necessarily agreeing but a chant from a LONG time ago is strangely haunting and still scares me



"The whole world is watching" repeated over and over.

1968 sucked. This country nearly lost its mind. I was 14 and terrified at what I saw on live TV.


/won't you please come to Chicago.

superfudge73: [www.examiner.com image 400x347]

Salamay

That was my first thought.

Time for the real life "Quall of Duty"

Mishno: Cops have shotguns loaded with slugs back in their buses. All's the SCA could fire back are arrows made out of golf tubes and tennis balls.

Most SCAdians also own live steel in addition to rattan swords and golftube arrows.

My period-accurate crossbow (175# draw) will shoot bodkin points through both sides of a 16 gauge steel computer case. Interestingly, standard commercial target points bounce right off.

HopScotchNSoda: Rich Cream: The powder blue helmuts mean these guys are under orders from the UNations! They are taking over the country!


/seriously tho, were Chicago's police helmets that color before the "gathering"?
//getting too old for this shiat


They've always (decades anyway) been that colour. It matches their shirts and until the mid-late 70s, their cars. Look at the pictures from the 1968 riots, and you'll see the same colour helmets. The helmet is the only headgear they have that isn't dark blue; it and the cold-weather fur-lined hat with the ear flaps are also their only hats that lack the Sillitoe tartan (the chequerboard band).

I believe it's because that light blue matches the flag.

Is it just me?

Here's an idea, but it would probably be rejected by the privileged and pampered few who attend these worthless conferences..

Q Why hold them in the downtowns of cities, rather than some remote place that the protesters would never be able to get to?

A Because we WANT the protesters to show up, so our cops can beat them up and show all the other leaders just how bad ass we are!!

Sadly this happened in Toronto. because goddamn Harper's ego is way more important than civil rights.

Yet the idiots keep electing these cavemen in suits. We are doomed.

J. Frank Parnell: On CNN i hear the police chief talking about how they're just there to make sure the protest goes peacefully and everyone can exercise their first amendment rights. Yet at the scene you can see the police telling everyone to disperse, and forcefully trying to break up the crowds.


They let them protest all of the time. The Chicago Police have been incredibly hands-off; not just the big NATO rallies over the past few days but the Occupiers and the periodic immigrant rights marches. It's been nearly 44 years since Chicago has seen anything the kind of police-protester conflicts of Vancouver, Oakland, New York, et al. - and a lot of protesters from such places have remarked about how surprised they were by the cops' lack of interference in Chicago. As long as the crowds keep to their permitted routes (which are long, wide, and quite prominent) and don't try to breach the Secret Service's zone around McCormick Place, they can protest to their hearts' content, with no interference by the police.

CygnusDarius: Fark it.

Let it all burn. Ancient Greece had its run, Babylon had its run, Rome had its run (twice). Let it burn and born anew.

Thank you!
Please give to my political PAC, Nihilists for the GOP.
No one can guarantee success. But we can guarantee failure.

Nihilists for the GOP

The protest was organized by Andy Thayer. Not Occupy.

Now, I don't support Occupy because I don't think that half of them even know what in the hell they are protesting. I do, however, fully support their right to protest, so long as they don't pull what it looks like a minority of these folks in Chicago have pulled. But CNN, CBS, and other sources are reporting the police attacked without provocation, despite several other sources - and eyewitnesses - plainly stating otherwise. ABC went so far as to say officers suffered "minor" injuries, leaving out entirely that one was stabbed by a protester, and none of them are showing the pics from the Tribune.

The First Amendment guarantees our right to assemble and protest - and I fully support it and will defend it to my dying breath. It doesn't guarantee anyone's right to break a stick about as big around as an officer's baton (which I didn't see the officers in the Tribune's pics using on the protesters, but maybe I missed it) over anyone else's head.

Thayer (I'll just leave this and this right here) probably belongs in the Cook County jail right alongside those other 45 or so people who ended up there on Sunday because even if he "doesn't want" the violence, not only didn't he do anything to stop it, but by refusing to accept any responsibility when the proof is staring him in the face, he is blatantly encouraging it.

Day_Old_Dutchie: Here's an idea, but it would probably be rejected by the privileged and pampered few who attend these worthless conferences..

Q Why hold them in the downtowns of cities, rather than some remote place that the protesters would never be able to get to?

They do. Sea Island for one. The G8 is at Camp David this year.

For cities, it's a way to show their worth and market their brand. It's the same reason they want the Olympics even though they're going to lose money on it.

Mr Guy: Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd be in for an extremely rude physics lesson about how easily two or three grown men with a reinforced set of inclined planes can flip over a couple ton vehicle. If a couple of kids can flip cargo vans easily, then a squad of shieldmen with strong shields would have NO trouble getting them under the tires and using leverage to flip an APC, particular if you can't drive too carefully because of the several feet of wooden pike being thrust through your viewports.

pics or it didn't happen.

CitizenTed: CygnusDarius: Fark it.

Let it all burn. Ancient Greece had its run, Babylon had its run, Rome had its run (twice). Let it burn and born anew.

Thank you!
Please give to my political PAC, Nihilists for the GOP.
No one can guarantee success. But we can guarantee failure.

Nihilists for the GOP

I'm not a nihilist in the way to see all burn perpetually, but a little havoc is a like a natural forest fire: It gives way to new life.

/So
//In a strange way
///I'm an optimist

Rapmaster2000: I believe it's because that light blue matches the flag.

Perhaps, but I tend to doubt it. They've been using the shirt and helmet colour since the 1950s or earlier, when departments all over the place used that colour or were switching to it. It's just a cop thing, not a Chicago municipal thing.

The various departments' work trucks (Streets & Sanitation, Transportation, Revenue, et al.), however, yeah, that is likely either because of the flag or (more likely) was inspired by the river & lake just like the flag was.

justanotherfarkinfarker: They'd get stomped. Because the cops would break out the pepper spray and the flash bangs and rubber shot. And no amount of lame weekend drills and armor made in your moms basement out of used duct-work and supply from Michael's crafts would stop that beat down.

You seem to be misinformed. Minimum 16 gauge steel (or equivalent in leather, aluminum, or plastic) for combat armor in the SCA. Helmets must be 12 gauge steel. Not something put together in mom's basement unless mom has a foundry and a lot of metal-working tools.

justanotherfarkinfarker: No, why do you think they have gas, flash bangs, high pressure water canons.

Bah! If a bunch of SCAdians stick-jocks started wailing on the cops, the response would be with firearms.

Even if you have a gas mask on you're not gonna be holding up a shield for long.

You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that the weekend training stick-jocks engage in fails to train them to hold up their shileds for a considerable period of time. That training (especially in preparation for a war) also trains the stick-jocks to rotate new fighters to the front to replace tiring ones.

Plus they can just drive an armored truck into your formation.

Again, if faced with armored opponents who are disciplined AND armed with heavy sticks and bad attitudes (stick jocks are generally quite aggressive), the police response would most likely be with live ammunition. Justifiably, in my opinion.

It's lovely to think about SCAdian fighters engaging the cops with their own version of riot tactics, but the end result would be a lot of dead SCAdians, probably a few dead cops, and the SCA being designated as a subversive organization again.

Honestly, if we get to a point in this country where protesters are bringing in their own heavies to keep the riot police from rioting, it would be rednecks with guns and not SCAdians with rattan. Note that there would probably be little difference in the immediate outcome. The long-term effects, however, would probably be catastrophic.

/Ex-SCAdian stick-jock
//Not a pundit, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express at some point in the past.