If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Patheos)   Having successfully forced birth control on Catholics, Obama turns to forcing smoke detectors on the Amish. Republicans cry "religious freedom" and hold Congressional hearings in 3...2   (patheos.com) divider line 152
    More: Interesting, Amish, congressional hearing, religious freedom, Jehovah's Witnesses, Hemant Mehtas, birth control, Christian mythology  
•       •       •

2175 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 May 2012 at 11:35 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



152 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-05-21 09:43:24 AM
Subs, this was a state issue. Federal had nothing to do with it.

And it happened in 2007.
 
2012-05-21 09:46:03 AM
Nothing to see here, just another story of religion being used as an excuse for child abuse.
 
2012-05-21 10:48:14 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Nothing to see here, just another story of religion being used as an excuse for child abuse.


There is not the hating like liberal atheist hating.
 
2012-05-21 10:54:30 AM

meow said the dog: DammitIForgotMyLogin: Nothing to see here, just another story of religion being used as an excuse for child abuse.

There is not the hating like liberal atheist hating.


From the source linked in that article:

I met one of the rebels, Mose Miller. He is short and squirrelly with a raggedy red beard.
Continue reading the main story
Who are the Amish?
An Amish girl on a scooter

Anabaptist Christian denomination
Communities in the US and Canada
Many communities reject links to outside world
Most Amish shun modern technology including electricity and cars
Plain clothing - no buttons allowed in some communities
Speak English and a German dialect called Pennsylvania Dutch

We talked at his doorstep with his nine children looking on. It was cold: -15C (5F). Most of the kids were in bare feet.

Their clothes were roughly sewed together - like Victorian patchwork puppets.

Their hands and faces were grimy with dirt from the farmyard.

Lizzie, his eldest daughter, showed me round their home. There were two bedrooms for the children - wooden pallets and old blankets served as beds.


You say "there's no hate like atheist hate", and that might be true, but only because religious people apparently find child abuse perfectly acceptable.
 
2012-05-21 10:55:05 AM
Also, apparently, there's no cut and paste fails like atheist cut and paste fails.
 
2012-05-21 11:03:59 AM
They already have brake lights on their buggies.
 
2012-05-21 11:31:25 AM
If soemone else sets their houses on fire, is that God's will?
 
2012-05-21 11:39:08 AM

Codenamechaz: Subs, this was a state issue. Federal had nothing to do with it.

And it happened in 2007.


Are you new here? Obama, and his Magical Time Machine, are to blame for everything.
 
2012-05-21 11:40:44 AM

meow said the dog: DammitIForgotMyLogin: Nothing to see here, just another story of religion being used as an excuse for child abuse.

There is not the hating like liberal atheist hating.


Tell that to all the gays everywhere.
 
2012-05-21 11:41:00 AM

Codenamechaz: Subs, this was a state issue. Federal had nothing to do with it.

And it happened in 2007.


Doesn't matter; the bill of rights applies equally to state governments.
 
2012-05-21 11:41:14 AM
God's plan. A ridiculously spiteful and evil God that wishes misery on his subjects.
 
2012-05-21 11:42:44 AM
That's because they've been spending most of their lives living in an Amish Paradise
 
2012-05-21 11:43:13 AM

GoodyearPimp: God's plan. A ridiculously spiteful and evil God that wishes misery on his subjects.


No wonder modern conservatives worship him almost as much as they do Ronald Regan.
 
2012-05-21 11:44:40 AM
this sort of thing is always tough. Religious freedom on one side, protecting kids who aren't of an age to decide for themselves on another.

A few Amish communities have won cases about having to put reflectors on their buggies because of the garishness of crappy plastic reflectors. Similar idea at work there too. I think they even won such a case in NYS.
 
2012-05-21 11:44:46 AM
Fark the Amish. Bunch of backward ass rubes. And fark their puppy mills too.
 
2012-05-21 11:45:29 AM
When can we start forcing birth control on all our cult followers?
 
2012-05-21 11:46:03 AM
If their religeous beliefs kept them from installing something that would have saved the lives of their chilren and they are ok with that because it is what god wanted.....then the Darwin in my has no issues with this.

However, if this isn't in some small commune village then they can fark off. That smoke detector could save my life if we live in the same building.
 
2012-05-21 11:46:55 AM

CPennypacker: Fark the Amish. Bunch of backward ass rubes. And fark their puppy mills too.


but seriously, people who heat their homes using wood burning stoves have less instances of house fires
 
2012-05-21 11:48:12 AM
I've also never understood why God Will, which obviously extends past 18th Century technology, would prevent you from using it.
 
2012-05-21 11:49:53 AM
Old Order Amish live off the grid, but most sects have no problem with battery-powered devices. And Pennsylvania long ago ordered the Amish to light their buggies at night after there were too many fatal accidents. I think that went to the Supreme Court.
Of course what happens on public property (roads) is different from what goes on in the home.
Tough call, but I'd side with the Amish.
(A dog trained to bark on smoke alert would be more effective and fit into the Ordnung. They could set up a puppy mill.)
 
2012-05-21 11:55:20 AM
I would love to see the "Catholics Forced to Pay for Birth Control" issue make its way to the Supreme Court.

That way we can watch Scalia either:
A) Side with the Obama administration.
or
B) Argue against the precedent he personally wrote in an earlier case (Employment Division v. Smith, 1990) involving an attempted religious exemption.

"To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself "

Link to wiki
 
2012-05-21 11:57:53 AM
Forcing birth control on catholics sounds like a great idea to me.

drtfa
 
2012-05-21 12:00:13 PM

jcooli09: Forcing birth control on catholics sounds like a great idea to me.

drtfa


Me too. Mostly so they don't raise more Catholics.
 
2012-05-21 12:01:21 PM

skullkrusher: this sort of thing is always tough. Religious freedom on one side, protecting kids who aren't of an age to decide for themselves on another.

A few Amish communities have won cases about having to put reflectors on their buggies because of the garishness of crappy plastic reflectors. Similar idea at work there too. I think they even won such a case in NYS.


It's not "tough" at all. Child protection should always trump religious liberty. Religious beliefs should not give you carte blanche to do whatever you want as far as ignoring reasonable laws or violating the rights of other people. Nor are children the property of their parents to just do whatever they like with.

I appreciate that they selectively don't believe in certain kinds of technology (others are just fine with them), but in some areas I believe that the rights of children should trump the rights of their parents to impose their religious beliefs on their children. Vaccination is one area that I don't believe there should be religious exceptions; smoke detectors might be another. Same goes with the reflectors on the buggies. Anything health-and-safety related, religious liberty (although an important right) should take a backseat to the GREATER right of children and other people to be physically safe.
 
2012-05-21 12:03:59 PM

RedPhoenix122: jcooli09: Forcing birth control on catholics sounds like a great idea to me.

drtfa

Me too. Mostly so they don't raise more Catholics.


That was my thought. It'd be a good start.
 
2012-05-21 12:08:45 PM

jcooli09: RedPhoenix122: jcooli09: Forcing birth control on catholics sounds like a great idea to me.

drtfa

Me too. Mostly so they don't raise more Catholics.

That was my thought. It'd be a good start.


My only worry is the priests will have to share the boys, since there's fewer to go around.
 
2012-05-21 12:13:44 PM
I'd only see very strict Amish people having a problem with this.

The Amish in general don't reject new things simply because they are new, they reject new things because they damage the togetherness of the community. A battery powered device with the sole purpose of detecting a fire doesn't really damage the togetherness of the community.
 
2012-05-21 12:14:39 PM
Do Amish people tend to vote even? Has this ever been studied?
 
2012-05-21 12:15:01 PM
As an atheist, I say...

img520.imageshack.us
 
2012-05-21 12:15:19 PM
Can't they just get a very loud canary?
 
2012-05-21 12:15:27 PM
Why is this a federal matter?
 
2012-05-21 12:15:42 PM

skullkrusher: this sort of thing is always tough. Religious freedom on one side, protecting kids who aren't of an age to decide for themselves on another.

A few Amish communities have won cases about having to put reflectors on their buggies because of the garishness of crappy plastic reflectors. Similar idea at work there too. I think they even won such a case in NYS.


All of the Amish communities I've run into (mostly in Indiana but a few in Missouri) use reflectors on their buggies. Whether it is by law or by custom, it's a good idea. Driving down a highway at 60 at night and suddenly coming across an all-black buggy is a very scary thing.
 
2012-05-21 12:17:34 PM

Mnemia: skullkrusher: this sort of thing is always tough. Religious freedom on one side, protecting kids who aren't of an age to decide for themselves on another.

A few Amish communities have won cases about having to put reflectors on their buggies because of the garishness of crappy plastic reflectors. Similar idea at work there too. I think they even won such a case in NYS.

It's not "tough" at all. Child protection should always trump religious liberty. Religious beliefs should not give you carte blanche to do whatever you want as far as ignoring reasonable laws or violating the rights of other people. Nor are children the property of their parents to just do whatever they like with.

I appreciate that they selectively don't believe in certain kinds of technology (others are just fine with them), but in some areas I believe that the rights of children should trump the rights of their parents to impose their religious beliefs on their children. Vaccination is one area that I don't believe there should be religious exceptions; smoke detectors might be another. Same goes with the reflectors on the buggies. Anything health-and-safety related, religious liberty (although an important right) should take a backseat to the GREATER right of children and other people to be physically safe.


They generally do as my Family Law professor once said. "We will let parents make a lot of desc ions for their children, but you cannot turn your child into a martyr". (Though their some tooling around about the chances for success of a given treatment, and how painful or distressing that treatment might be in relation to its potential for success.)
 
2012-05-21 12:22:11 PM
There is no such thing as God, so of course he wont' wake them while they burn.

That said, that article was so ridiculously condescending, I hope the batteries in the author's smoke detector are dead and his house burns, causing him moderate injury, but destroying everything he owns, which of course his fire insurance won't cover because the batteries were dead!
 
2012-05-21 12:22:36 PM
"I use this," he said pointing at his nose, "or him," and his finger pointed upwards. "I don't need a devil on the wall to tell me if my house is burning."
I asked him what would happen if he did not wake up and all his children were burned to death.
"If God does not wake us, well, that must be part of his plan," Mose told me.


I remember a parable my uncle told me. There was a flood coming and a whole town was supposed to be evacuated. As a bus stopped in his neighborhood to pick him up one man refused to go, saying that God would save him. Later, after the water had risen until the streets were impassable, a sheriff came by in a row boat, but this man refused to leave, saying that God would save him. By the next day that man was trapped on his roof and a helicopter flew over head and offered to lower a rope, but he still refused.

Eventually this man drown, and as he is standing before God he asks why he wasn't saved. God replies "I sent a bus, a boat, and a helicopter. You turned them away."

I am reminded of this any time someone refuses to avail themselves of the benefits of our modern society and claims that it's God's will.
 
2012-05-21 12:22:50 PM

GoodyearPimp: God's plan. A ridiculously spiteful and evil God that wishes misery on his subjects.


I see you know of Mother Teresa's withholding of basic medicine from her patients/adherents because their pain and suffering brought them closer to God.
 
2012-05-21 12:24:38 PM

Codenamechaz: Subs, this was a state issue. Federal had nothing to do with it.

And it happened in 2007.


And although it's pretty athy, I don't think it's the athiest.
 
2012-05-21 12:29:42 PM

Non-evil Monkey: I'd only see very strict Amish people having a problem with this.


Swartzentruber, in this case; the ones who considered "Old Order" too corrupted by the modern world.
 
2012-05-21 12:30:13 PM
Subby, you're wrong. He's not athiest, I'm athier than he is.
 
2012-05-21 12:31:15 PM

fracto73: "I use this," he said pointing at his nose, "or him," and his finger pointed upwards. "I don't need a devil on the wall to tell me if my house is burning."
I asked him what would happen if he did not wake up and all his children were burned to death.
"If God does not wake us, well, that must be part of his plan," Mose told me.


I never thought "change or die" could be so perfectly described.
 
2012-05-21 12:35:29 PM
When a house catches fire, it can quickly spread to neighboring homes in the community. Failing to detect fires early isn't just a personal decision - the ramifications are huge.

Not to mention tax dollars are wasted by the fire department putting out unnecessary fires that would have been prevented had they been alerted earlier.


"If God does not wake us, well, that must be part of his plan," Mose told me.

That's not god, that's Darwin, fu(ker
 
2012-05-21 12:36:45 PM
These are Amish in New York, not real Amish, non-story

/Real Amish live in Lancaster, PA. And if any Amish disagree with that statement they can respond in this thread.
 
2012-05-21 12:38:13 PM

Mnemia: It's not "tough" at all. Child protection should always trump religious liberty. Religious beliefs should not give you carte blanche to do whatever you want as far as ignoring reasonable laws or violating the rights of other people. Nor are children the property of their parents to just do whatever they like with.


In the absence of religious objections, it is simple. The objections do make it far less cut and dry. That's what I mean by "tough".

Mnemia: I appreciate that they selectively don't believe in certain kinds of technology (others are just fine with them), but in some areas I believe that the rights of children should trump the rights of their parents to impose their religious beliefs on their children. Vaccination is one area that I don't believe there should be religious exceptions; smoke detectors might be another. Same goes with the reflectors on the buggies. Anything health-and-safety related, religious liberty (although an important right) should take a backseat to the GREATER right of children and other people to be physically safe.


Maybe the answer is to require smoke detectors in homes that have children under a certain age. Maybe younger than 16 to coincide with Rumspringa. If you choose to remain in the community after that age, you've made the decision. Maybe 18 to be more in line with the more universally accepted age of consent
 
2012-05-21 12:39:08 PM

Serious Black: skullkrusher: this sort of thing is always tough. Religious freedom on one side, protecting kids who aren't of an age to decide for themselves on another.

A few Amish communities have won cases about having to put reflectors on their buggies because of the garishness of crappy plastic reflectors. Similar idea at work there too. I think they even won such a case in NYS.

All of the Amish communities I've run into (mostly in Indiana but a few in Missouri) use reflectors on their buggies. Whether it is by law or by custom, it's a good idea. Driving down a highway at 60 at night and suddenly coming across an all-black buggy is a very scary thing.


the "big" case was in Kentucky I think. Pretty recent. Court sided with the Amish
 
2012-05-21 12:47:25 PM

skullkrusher: Serious Black: skullkrusher: this sort of thing is always tough. Religious freedom on one side, protecting kids who aren't of an age to decide for themselves on another.

A few Amish communities have won cases about having to put reflectors on their buggies because of the garishness of crappy plastic reflectors. Similar idea at work there too. I think they even won such a case in NYS.

All of the Amish communities I've run into (mostly in Indiana but a few in Missouri) use reflectors on their buggies. Whether it is by law or by custom, it's a good idea. Driving down a highway at 60 at night and suddenly coming across an all-black buggy is a very scary thing.

the "big" case was in Kentucky I think. Pretty recent. Court sided with the Amish


I hadn't heard of that case. Interesting. I see that the Kentucky legislature passed another bill before the case was heard about putting reflective tape on the buggies instead of the orange triangles.
 
2012-05-21 12:51:38 PM
Cool I'll just start a religion that doesn't support war and refuse to pay taxes because it supports the US defense!
 
2012-05-21 12:53:55 PM
I'm too lazy to read all the comments, but did anyone mention that subby is a GOPtard?

They are in violation of state building codes. Yes, they've gone to federal court, which btw, is in the judicial branch. See Obama anywhere in there? Civics, how does it work?
 
2012-05-21 12:54:14 PM
Let me guess, they are going to hold a hearing on this and include only Christians?
 
2012-05-21 12:54:14 PM

HeartBurnKid: Codenamechaz: Subs, this was a state issue. Federal had nothing to do with it.

And it happened in 2007.

Doesn't matter; the bill of rights applies equally to state governments.


A) That's not true. Only rights that have been incorporated by the 14th amendment.

B) That's not the point he was making. Obama didn't do it like subby was pretending.
 
2012-05-21 01:01:08 PM

Corvus: Cool I'll just start a religion that doesn't support war and refuse to pay taxes because it supports the US defense!


You've already lost that case.

Money is fungible, dontcha know?
 
Displayed 50 of 152 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report