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(YouTube) Video Penn Jillette rips Obama over his drug policies: "He's chortling with Jimmy Fallon about lower class people" (includes profanity)   (youtube.com) divider line 240
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6343 clicks; posted to Video » on 21 May 2012 at 1:24 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-21 02:41:54 PM

verbaltoxin: ManRay: The President evolved his stance on gay marriage in the right direction partially because donors and supporters forced him into a corner on the issue. Maybe the same could happen with the drug war.

This. It's a question of political momentum. Gay marriage has gradually moved from a fringe issue to one that most Americans support. It no longer makes political sense to maintain the status quo, so politicians who support or just don't have a problem with gay marriage are slowly coming out in favor of it.

The drug war is still this mysterious, shady thing that most Americans don't understand is even happening. They know about drug busts and that drugs are illegal, but that's about it. There is still a huge negative stigma with drugs because they're vices, and being in favor of ending the drug war is hard to do without looking like you're in favor of vices. You might not be, as a lot of anti-Prohibitionists weren't brewers or drinkers for instance, but you have to sell the public on the idea that there is a much bigger spiderweb of problems illicit drugs create.


Actually, it's quite the opposite. Medical marijuana has broader support than gay marriage.

A majority of Americans do not support gay marriage (though if the question is rephrased to civil unions, it becomes a majority).
http://pollingreport.com/civil.htm
http://www.gallup.com/poll/154529/half-americans-support-legal-gay-ma r riage.aspx

Medical Marijuana
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1548/broad-public-support-for-legalizing- m edical-marijuana
 
2012-05-21 03:05:18 PM

slayer199: qorkfiend: He ordered the DoJ to stop defending DOMA in court. DOMA is still enforced, and will be until it is repealed or otherwise invalidated...

Uh, unless you aren't paying attention it also means the federal government is not enforcing that law which denies reciprocity to a couple married legally in a state that allows it. If the government is not defending the federal law in court, then it becomes a battle between states...in other words, it's NOT being enforced if the government isn't defending it.


First off, that's not what the law does. The law denies nothing; it allows states to not recognize out-of-state same-sex marriage licenses. Second, I'm not sure where you got the idea that "not defending the federal law in court, then it becomes a battle between states". Third, it is absolutely being enforced at the same time the Department of Justice - not "the government", since the House has taken up the defense - is not defending it. Section 3 of DOMA forbids the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriages. Section 3 of DOMA is not being defended in court, but the federal government still does not recognize same-sex marriages - the law is still being enforced.

While it is referring to a civil law, not a criminal law...the concept is the same. The President can issue a signing statement basically stating that existing drug laws are unconstitutional when it comes the the states legalized medical marijuana and then the law would not be enforced.

No, the President cannot declare laws unconstitutional, and usually issues a signing statement (which has no legal force) when he signs something, not whenever he feels like it.
 
2012-05-21 03:07:08 PM

verbaltoxin: This. It's a question of political momentum.


Big Pharma brings in a lot more lobbying money.

Same Sex marriage doesn't have quite the same scale of corporate enemies as legalized marijuana does.
 
2012-05-21 03:10:24 PM

technicolor-misfit: I find the guy entertaining, and I agree with a lot he has to say, but he sounds like a typical annoying libertarian douchebag,


Yep. He has the exact same dependency on deliberate misframing, strawmen, and disingenuous oversimplification.

Love him as an entertainer, wish he'd stay honest when he gets onto politics.
 
2012-05-21 03:32:49 PM

ManRay: The President evolved his stance on gay marriage in the right direction partially because donors and supporters forced him into a corner on the issue. Maybe the same could happen with the drug war.


It has, and blessed be the drugmakers and the loottakers, for they donate freely. Keeping MJ illegal is a combined Pharmaceutical and Law Enforcement lobbying effort. GL countering that.
 
2012-05-21 03:34:07 PM
Penn is one of those people who seemed to be really smart, so people started to assume he was really smart, so he started to think he was really smart, now he's proving he's not nearly as smart as everyone though.

Just because you're really good at one thing doesn't mean it translates well to other fields.

/ even though I technically agree with him here...
 
2012-05-21 04:21:00 PM

Thwartme: I love Penn, used to listen to his radio show all the time, watch Bullshiat, have seen P&T live many times. His very entertaining, and a really smart, well informed guy.

But every once in a while, he gets his head rammed right up his arse, and he just gets everything wrong.

Thanks,
thwartme


I think this could be said about nearly 100% of the human race. At least the second part. Being entertaining, really smart and well informed is where he diverges from most of humanity.
 
2012-05-21 04:36:01 PM

EighthDay: It really is sad to me that our country continues its war on drugs, despite the blatant failure that it is.


Solving the problem of people abusing drugs isn't the goal, so it's not really a failure. It continues to justify more and bigger government and lots of people agree with it so it's just about the most succsessful government program ever.
 
2012-05-21 04:59:54 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Really, because if I missed it, then I'm at a loss. What are you trying to get across?


You missed it. I just clarified it. That was all. I'm sorry for your loss. If I didn't make a point to you then what were you arguing against? :P

Let me also clarify that we aren't on opposite sides of your argument. Seriously, relax.
 
2012-05-21 05:08:46 PM
Huh, he does really wear those superfocus glasses.
 
2012-05-21 05:14:09 PM

Makh: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Really, because if I missed it, then I'm at a loss. What are you trying to get across?

You missed it. I just clarified it. That was all. I'm sorry for your loss. If I didn't make a point to you then what were you arguing against? :P

Let me also clarify that we aren't on opposite sides of your argument. Seriously, relax.


Whatever, dude.
 
2012-05-21 06:21:10 PM

TommyymmoT: Agreed. I held out hope that something positive would happen under Clinton, but nope.


Adults don't favor drug legalization. Sorry if that gets your knickers in a twist, but it's true, has always BEEN true and will always remain true. Every generation labors under the delusion that "once all these old farts die off, MY generation will be in charge, and then it'll be free pot and brownies for everyone!" What actually happens, though, is that most us grow up, get jobs, and no longer have the time to sit around fried and stupid, talking about how "deep" it is that wheels are circular instead of square.

Whine about it all you want. The simple fact is that one day (unless you're very unfortunate) you'll grow up too, and then you'll be the grumpy old fart rolling your eyes and a bunch of naive stoners who are absolutely convinced that one day "one of them" is going to become President.
 
2012-05-21 06:38:16 PM

Homicider: TommyymmoT: Agreed. I held out hope that something positive would happen under Clinton, but nope.

Adults don't favor drug legalization. Sorry if that gets your knickers in a twist, but it's true, has always BEEN true and will always remain true. Every generation labors under the delusion that "once all these old farts die off, MY generation will be in charge, and then it'll be free pot and brownies for everyone!" What actually happens, though, is that most us grow up, get jobs, and no longer have the time to sit around fried and stupid, talking about how "deep" it is that wheels are circular instead of square.

Whine about it all you want. The simple fact is that one day (unless you're very unfortunate) you'll grow up too, and then you'll be the grumpy old fart rolling your eyes and a bunch of naive stoners who are absolutely convinced that one day "one of them" is going to become President.


Oh yeah? How do you explain the steady increase of pro-legalization? If I recall, the latest Gallup poll earlier this year had 51% that support legalization. The highest ever.
 
2012-05-21 06:42:00 PM
Wow - submitted this yesterday evening and now 21 hours later it's everywhere.
 
2012-05-21 06:49:59 PM

jdmac: I have a question for the people defending Obama on this: he is basically continuing the Bush era policies on the War on Drugs. Were you in support of what George W did and you are basically glad Obama continued the policies, or does this issue mean nothing to you and you just want to support your leader no matter how horrible the policies are?

/Hey wait, that applies to War
//And the bail outs.

[paulhorton.files.wordpress.com image 425x316]


Oh you must be racist!
/glad someone said it, because it had to be said(your portion) and it is a good question
//reaffirmation that politicians are policticians and suck equally (D) & (R)
 
2012-05-21 06:51:11 PM
vote cthulu/dagon 2012

They're my write in candidates.

Actually the only way to influence the Politicians, and/or move the Government to a better position in this area, Is to vote 3rd party in droves.
If the pols were worried that their Party (Sacred Cow) were being threatened, The parties...(both of them) would leave skid marks burning rubber to get to that position.


/ http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/
 
2012-05-21 07:01:21 PM
1) I don't think Obama wants the history books to show the 1st black President was the one who legalized weed.

2) With the level of Republican obstructionism and derp going on against trying to pass sub-Reagan levels of taxes for the wealthy, and Bob Dole's old health care plan, just what do you think would happen if Obama came out fulling swinging in favor of pot-legalization?

3) Just how much weed do you have smoke to hinge your politics on this issue while so much else is happening? Maybe if we all get stoned enough we won't have to care about birth control being banned, poll taxes returning, corporations being allowed to run for office, and every single fark-up from the Bush administration signing up with Romney for another chance at bat.
 
2012-05-21 07:08:21 PM

Homicider: TommyymmoT: Agreed. I held out hope that something positive would happen under Clinton, but nope.

Adults don't favor drug legalization. Sorry if that gets your knickers in a twist, but it's true, has always BEEN true and will always remain true. Every generation labors under the delusion that "once all these old farts die off, MY generation will be in charge, and then it'll be free pot and brownies for everyone!" What actually happens, though, is that most us grow up, get jobs, and no longer have the time to sit around fried and stupid, talking about how "deep" it is that wheels are circular instead of square.

Whine about it all you want. The simple fact is that one day (unless you're very unfortunate) you'll grow up too, and then you'll be the grumpy old fart rolling your eyes and a bunch of naive stoners who are absolutely convinced that one day "one of them" is going to become President.

=============

I'm 55 years old. Exactly when do I reach this magical "grown up" age you speak of?
I work, I own property, I pay my taxes, and I vote.
While I don't really take drugs much anymore (though I used to, in a very big way) I still think that the drug policy needs to change drastically, as do fully most of the people I know.

I don't labor under the delusion that Jeff Spicoli will someday be president, nor have I ever in my life thought that he should be.

When a state votes to legalize dispensaries, yet the feds still continue to raid them, that tells me that the government is ignoring the will of the people.
That it's their country, and not ours.

I think the "grown ups" that you are referring to, are the ones in the redneck states with big sunglasses that only get off their Hoveround long enough to play shuffleboard.
They're the only ones that politicians are afraid of appearing "soft on drugs" in front of.

The same buffoons that think Reagan was a pretty dandy president, and that "just say no", is a rational response to the current incarceration crisis.
 
2012-05-21 07:14:33 PM

AeAe: Oh yeah? How do you explain the steady increase of pro-legalization? If I recall, the latest Gallup poll earlier this year had 51% that support legalization. The highest ever.


Ought to be pretty easy to get it legalized then, right? If you have 51% on your side, you can pass or rescind any law you want.

...unless, of course, the majority of your "51%" consists of people too young or stoned to vote. But seriously, prove me wrong. Rally that 51%, and legalize the stuff. Then tell me how it'll affect your life. Because, as far as I can tell, any highschooler in America can lay their hands on all the weed they want, any time they want. What potheads are really after isn't legalization, it's validation. Hell, in college I used to walk right down the middle of the Mall in Santa Cruz, passing a joint from person to person. Nobody ever stopped us. Nobody ever arrested us. I attended parties with mason jars full of pot, and four-foot bongs on every table. "Legalization" wouldn't change a thing.
 
2012-05-21 07:46:21 PM

Sensei Can You See: 1 in 6 people in prison for marijuana? 15 percent?

I call shenanigans. Even NORML says it's only 1 in 8, or about 12.5%.

http://norml.org/news/2006/10/12/nearly-one-in-eight-us-drug-prisone rs -are-behind-bars-for-pot-taxpayers-spending-over-1-billion-annually-to -incarcerate-pot-offenders

And even a quick glance at NORML's stats vs. JD stats or others shows marijuana proponents have a definition of "in jail for marijuana" so loose it rattles.

In prison for a murder you committed with THC in your blood? You're "in prison for marijuana."

In prison for killing 2 police officers who caught you with an RV stuffed with pot? You're "in prison for marijuana."

Now I agree with a lot of what he said -- if Obama had been busted for what he cheerfully admits to now he'd have a felony record and no way would he be president. And it's crazy to throw someone in jail for using marijuana.

But I'd love to see some trustworthy stats on how many people are "in prison for marijuana" -- viz., in prison for no other reason except that they were using marijuana for personal recreational and/or medical use. Period.


I'd like to see some de-militarization. They still live in fear of little dogs. What has all that gear done for their safety?

/gear
 
2012-05-21 08:03:34 PM

tirob: knobmaker: tirob: I know that my life revolves around the legalization of recreational marijuana use so much that it is my sole criterion for choosing a President. Anyone who doesn't see that this is the most important issue in the United States today has their priorities all wrong.

Oh for heaven's sake. The War on Drugs has done far more damage to the country than any pack of flea-bitten religious fanatics in the Middle-east ever could.

That's a debatable proposition if I've ever seen one. The DEA hasn't run airplanes loaded with fuel into office buildings as of yet.


I don't know. 3000 died on 9/11. Milton Friedman, that wild-eyed liberal, has calculated that the War on Drugs causes 10,000 unnecessary deaths every year. That's probably a low estimate now, since he made that calculation some years ago.

http://www.dailymarkets.com/economy/2011/06/04/milton-friedman-why-dr u gs-should-be-legalized/

It's interesting to note that in the weeks and months after 9/11, several observers pointed out that the FBI had far more agents involved in the War on Drugs than they did in anti-terrorist activity.

Priorities. We got 'em.
 
2012-05-21 08:09:08 PM
 
2012-05-21 08:10:25 PM

knobmaker: It's interesting to note that in the weeks and months after 9/11, several observers pointed out that the FBI had far more agents involved in the War on Drugs than they did in anti-terrorist activity.

Priorities. We got 'em.


Apparently, you have no idea what the letters "FBI" stand for. But here's a hint: it's probably a good thing that bureau devoted to investigating federal crimes had more agents investigating violations of federal law than they did out playing Spyhunter, which is actually the province of the CIA and NSA. I think time has proven that there were one hell of a lot more drug dealers in America over the past ten years than there were "terrorists".
 
2012-05-21 08:16:15 PM

Homicider: TommyymmoT: Agreed. I held out hope that something positive would happen under Clinton, but nope.

Adults don't favor drug legalization. Sorry if that gets your knickers in a twist, but it's true, has always BEEN true and will always remain true. Every generation labors under the delusion that "once all these old farts die off, MY generation will be in charge, and then it'll be free pot and brownies for everyone!" What actually happens, though, is that most us grow up, get jobs, and no longer have the time to sit around fried and stupid, talking about how "deep" it is that wheels are circular instead of square.

Whine about it all you want. The simple fact is that one day (unless you're very unfortunate) you'll grow up too, and then you'll be the grumpy old fart rolling your eyes and a bunch of naive stoners who are absolutely convinced that one day "one of them" is going to become President.


Here's the problem with your thesis. Not everyone who grows up turns into a moron. Some grownups are sick and tired of paying through the nose for a policy that has done no measurable good for the country, and a whole lot of serious harm.

On the off chance that you're not a moron, but just poorly informed, here is an organization made up of adults who are cops.

http://www.leap.cc/

Check it out. You might learn something.

By the way, one of them did become President. Several of them, in fact.
 
2012-05-21 08:17:29 PM

tomWright: TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.

Both sides are bad so vote Democratic?


/Vote Green or Libertarian if you really want to make a mark


People could learn a lesson from teh ghey. Obama refused to fulfill the promises he made to the gay community in his first two years in office, despite loud protests including those when active duty gay service members handcuffed themselves to the White House fence to try to shame him into taking the actions he promised.

dl.dropbox.com

Those protests failed, so a fundraising/support boycott was organized before the midterms. Gay voter turnout hit record lows.

After that, suddenly, shiat got done. DADT was repealed in the lame duck session of Congress and Obama suddenly decided that he would no longer defend DOMA.

If you continue to support a political party no matter how much they piss on the base, they have no incentive to do anything but further ignore you.

Obama made promises. He broke them. Time for some tough love.
 
2012-05-21 08:27:03 PM

TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.


Historically, there is something to be said for the idea behind the concept that "Only Nixon could go to China".

Nixon opened relations with communist China, and created the EPA
Ford ended the war in Vietnam
Reagan passed the most far reaching federal firearm restrictions in 50 years
Clinton passed Don't ask, Don't tell, and reformed welfare
Bush passed medicare prescription drug benefits and vastly increased spending on AIDS.

It is far more likely that Romney could pull republican congressmen into line if he were convinced that it was the correct way to go then Obama.
 
2012-05-21 08:31:20 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: RedPhoenix122: Don't blame me, I voted for Teller.

What's he got to say about this issue?


He says exactly what I want to hear from a politician.
 
2012-05-21 08:49:25 PM

Citrate1007: Penn is going to vote for Ron Paul.


Then Penn doesn't understand how national elections work and is throwing his vote away.

Voting for a candidate without legislative support is like building a pyramid from the top down -- the two candidates with legislative backing have already been chosen: Mitt and Barak -- any other candidates have no legislative or financial backing -- if they did, they'd already be in the lead nationally.

Ron Paul is a candidate with no allies and is not in the running. Period.
 
2012-05-21 08:59:40 PM

Hideously Gigantic Smurf: Ah, Penn Jillette, an avowed atheist who rips on religious people and sends his daughter to THIS school...

http://www.faithlutheranlv.org/


My family's Jewish and sent me to Catholic school. Sometimes you ignore religion if the education is better than public.

/it was
//still think Penn's one of the worst "It's not proselytizing when WE do it!" atheists out there.
 
2012-05-21 09:01:59 PM

knobmaker: tirob: knobmaker: tirob: I know that my life revolves around the legalization of recreational marijuana use so much that it is my sole criterion for choosing a President. Anyone who doesn't see that this is the most important issue in the United States today has their priorities all wrong.

Oh for heaven's sake. The War on Drugs has done far more damage to the country than any pack of flea-bitten religious fanatics in the Middle-east ever could.

That's a debatable proposition if I've ever seen one. The DEA hasn't run airplanes loaded with fuel into office buildings as of yet.

I don't know. 3000 died on 9/11. Milton Friedman, that wild-eyed liberal, has calculated that the War on Drugs causes 10,000 unnecessary deaths every year. That's probably a low estimate now, since he made that calculation some years ago.


How many unnecessary deaths per year does Mr. Friedman think will occur if the sale of methamphetamines and cocaine and opium derivatives for recreational use is made legal here?
 
2012-05-21 09:09:39 PM

BullBearMS: tomWright: TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.

Both sides are bad so vote Democratic?


/Vote Green or Libertarian if you really want to make a mark

People could learn a lesson from teh ghey. Obama refused to fulfill the promises he made to the gay community in his first two years in office, despite loud protests including those when active duty gay service members handcuffed themselves to the White House fence to try to shame him into taking the actions he promised.

[dl.dropbox.com image 480x308]

Those protests failed, so a fundraising/support boycott was organized before the midterms. Gay voter turnout hit record lows.

After that, suddenly, shiat got done. DADT was repealed in the lame duck session of Congress and Obama suddenly decided that he would no longer defend DOMA.

If you continue to support a political party no matter how much they piss on the base, they have no incentive to do anything but further ignore you.

Obama made promises. He broke them. Time for some tough love.


Can you provide a link to Obama's promise to legalize weed? I cannot find anything.
 
2012-05-21 09:13:37 PM

Empty Matchbook: //still think Penn's one of the worst "It's not proselytizing when WE do it!" atheists out there.


Except Penn doesn't put his fingers in his ears and go "la la la" when you try to talk religion to him. He'll listen to you, tell you he disagrees, and will move on.
 
2012-05-21 09:14:18 PM

DeaH: BullBearMS: tomWright: TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.

Both sides are bad so vote Democratic?


/Vote Green or Libertarian if you really want to make a mark

People could learn a lesson from teh ghey. Obama refused to fulfill the promises he made to the gay community in his first two years in office, despite loud protests including those when active duty gay service members handcuffed themselves to the White House fence to try to shame him into taking the actions he promised.

[dl.dropbox.com image 480x308]

Those protests failed, so a fundraising/support boycott was organized before the midterms. Gay voter turnout hit record lows.

After that, suddenly, shiat got done. DADT was repealed in the lame duck session of Congress and Obama suddenly decided that he would no longer defend DOMA.

If you continue to support a political party no matter how much they piss on the base, they have no incentive to do anything but further ignore you.

Obama made promises. He broke them. Time for some tough love.

Can you provide a link to Obama's promise to legalize weed? I cannot find anything.


I don't think he promised to legalize cannabis, but here's a video of him saying he won't use DOJ resources to go after medical marijuana:

Link
 
2012-05-21 09:20:54 PM

AeAe: DeaH: BullBearMS: tomWright: TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.

Both sides are bad so vote Democratic?


/Vote Green or Libertarian if you really want to make a mark

People could learn a lesson from teh ghey. Obama refused to fulfill the promises he made to the gay community in his first two years in office, despite loud protests including those when active duty gay service members handcuffed themselves to the White House fence to try to shame him into taking the actions he promised.

[dl.dropbox.com image 480x308]

Those protests failed, so a fundraising/support boycott was organized before the midterms. Gay voter turnout hit record lows.

After that, suddenly, shiat got done. DADT was repealed in the lame duck session of Congress and Obama suddenly decided that he would no longer defend DOMA.

If you continue to support a political party no matter how much they piss on the base, they have no incentive to do anything but further ignore you.

Obama made promises. He broke them. Time for some tough love.

Can you provide a link to Obama's promise to legalize weed? I cannot find anything.

I don't think he promised to legalize cannabis, but here's a video of him saying he won't use DOJ resources to go after medical marijuana:

Link


And then he promptly turned around and sicced the DEA on those same people
 
2012-05-21 09:24:23 PM

tirob: knobmaker: tirob: knobmaker: tirob: I know that my life revolves around the legalization of recreational marijuana use so much that it is my sole criterion for choosing a President. Anyone who doesn't see that this is the most important issue in the United States today has their priorities all wrong.

Oh for heaven's sake. The War on Drugs has done far more damage to the country than any pack of flea-bitten religious fanatics in the Middle-east ever could.

That's a debatable proposition if I've ever seen one. The DEA hasn't run airplanes loaded with fuel into office buildings as of yet.

I don't know. 3000 died on 9/11. Milton Friedman, that wild-eyed liberal, has calculated that the War on Drugs causes 10,000 unnecessary deaths every year. That's probably a low estimate now, since he made that calculation some years ago.


How many unnecessary deaths per year does Mr. Friedman think will occur if the sale of methamphetamines and cocaine and opium derivatives for recreational use is made legal here?


Because meth and The Devil's Weed are exactly the same?
 
2012-05-21 09:39:56 PM

HK-MP5-SD: TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.

Historically, there is something to be said for the idea behind the concept that "Only Nixon could go to China".

Nixon opened relations with communist China, and created the EPA
Ford ended the war in Vietnam
Reagan passed the most far reaching federal firearm restrictions in 50 years
Clinton passed Don't ask, Don't tell, and reformed welfare
Bush passed medicare prescription drug benefits and vastly increased spending on AIDS.

It is far more likely that Romney could pull republican congressmen into line if he were convinced that it was the correct way to go then Obama.


Nah, Romney won't do anything that isn't pro corporation. Pro pharma, Pro Liquor, Pro Tobacco, Pro military, cop and prison.

Bush and medicare prescriptions? I think you're forgetting about his "donut hole"
Bush is the president that told us we don't need health care, because we have emergency rooms.

Nixon created the EPA. Bravo. Then promptly paved the way for American companies to avoid having to deal with it by outsourcing most our manufacturing to China, where the EPA, OSHA, labor, and wage laws don't even exist.
We did not make friends with China because we thought they were going to nuke us, and that "It's A Small World" was after all, a pretty catchy tune.

Reagan passed firearms restrictions in the US, while simultaneously selling wholesale quantities of arms to Afghanistan, who are now using them to kill our troops.

Ford? Ford makes Carter look like Lincoln. He only existed to further the status quo, tow the party line, and pardon Nixon.
ANYBODY in the prior 10 years could have turned the switch off on Vietnam in exactly the same way. Lets just leave. It was nothing bold, or heroic.
Actually, Nixon decided we should pull out of Vietnam, not Ford.
We pulled most of our troops out in '73. Nixon didn't resign until '74.
By the way, Nixon was the founder of the War On DrugsTM.
It's his baby.
 
2012-05-21 09:47:56 PM
The war on drugs catapulted meth's popularity more than anything else I can think of.
Cocaine was becoming hugely popular, but unless you lived on one of the coasts, it was very expensive, sometimes hard to come by, and had been stepped on so many times it wasn't worth it.

Enter meth. Cheap, and readily available. Any shmuck can make it.
 
2012-05-21 09:54:25 PM

StoPPeRmobile:

I don't know. 3000 died on 9/11. Milton Friedman, that wild-eyed liberal, has calculated that the War on Drugs causes 10,000 unnecessary deaths every year. That's probably a low estimate now, since he made that calculation some years ago.

How many unnecessary deaths per year does Mr. Friedman think will occur if the sale of methamphetamines and cocaine and opium derivatives for recreational use is made legal here?

Because meth and The Devil's Weed are exactly the same?


Not only didn't I write that, your question is unresponsive to my point, which is that there are bad consequences to strict laws against those substances now called controlled, and there are bad consequences to making those substances legal to sell in commerce.
 
2012-05-21 11:06:53 PM

Rapmaster2000: A false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy, fallacy of false choice, black-and-white thinking, or the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses) is a type of logical fallacy that involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option. The options may be a position that is between the two extremes (such as when there are shades of grey) or may be a completely different alternative.


So the same policies, with a little color mixing = your imaginary third option that produces the same results. That's some good math there. Primo shiat.
 
2012-05-22 12:36:26 AM
Some of these Obama supporters would give Obama a pass on anything, so it really doesn't matter what you say to them. They'd rather mock weed smokers instead of dealing with the actual topic at hand. They also enjoy moving the goalposts and claim that we are stating that Obama promised to outright legalize weed, though not one person hear actually said that.
 
2012-05-22 12:45:16 AM

AeAe: I don't think he promised to legalize cannabis, but here's a video of him saying he won't use DOJ resources to go after medical marijuana:

Link


FWIW, here's an excerpt from his recent interview in Rolling Stone on the issue:

"Let me ask you about the War on Drugs. You vowed in 2008, when you were running for election, that you would not "use Justice Department resources to try and circumvent state laws about medical marijuana." Yet we just ran a story that shows your administration is launching more raids on medical pot than the Bush administration did. What's up with that? "

"Here's what's up: What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana. I never made a commitment that somehow we were going to give carte blanche to large-scale producers and operators of marijuana - and the reason is, because it's against federal law. I can't nullify congressional law. I can't ask the Justice Department to say, "Ignore completely a federal law that's on the books." What I can say is, "Use your prosecutorial discretion and properly prioritize your resources to go after things that are really doing folks damage." As a consequence, there haven't been prosecutions of users of marijuana for medical purposes.

The only tension that's come up - and this gets hyped up a lot - is a murky area where you have large-scale, commercial operations that may supply medical marijuana users, but in some cases may also be supplying recreational users. In that situation, we put the Justice Department in a very difficult place if we're telling them, "This is supposed to be against the law, but we want you to turn the other way." That's not something we're going to do. I do think it's important and useful to have a broader debate about our drug laws. One of the things we've done over the past three years was to make a sensible change when it came to the disparity in sentencing between crack cocaine and powder cocaine. We've had a discussion about how to focus on treatment, taking a public-health approach to drugs and lessening the overwhelming emphasis on criminal laws as a tool to deal with this issue. I think that's an appropriate debate that we should have."
 
2012-05-22 12:45:58 AM

TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.


Simply because he's not Obama, Right?
 
2012-05-22 12:49:44 AM
Never smoked a joint in my life, but I believe it should be legalized, rgulated and taxed. After all, we're going to need some revenue to replace the taxes previously brought in by all those who aren't smoking cigarettes now. And I don't see weed doing any more damage than alcohol.
 
2012-05-22 12:56:10 AM

TheJoe03: They also enjoy moving the goalposts and claim that we are stating that Obama promised to outright legalize weed, though not one person hear actually said that.


Oh, right. None of you are saying that Obama ought to legalize weed. Not a single one of you. *eyes rolled* Try being honest. Legalizing weed is the ONLY thing that this is about. I'm fine with that, but don't try telling me that somehow it's about "medical marijuana". There are dozens of other, perfectly legal drugs that work just as well, if not better for cancer patients. Furthermore, I fail to see why all of Fark's stoner brigade would care about medical marijuana, were it not for the fact that they know damn good and well that potheads abuse medical pot the same way that hillbillies abuse Oxycotin clinics.

Personally, I couldn't care less about pot being legal, if only we could criminalize being a stoner. Buy and sell all the weed you want, but the first time we see your dumb ass wearing an Iron Maiden t-shirt and watching one of Kevin Smith's retarded videos reminding you of how cool and clever you are for having watched "Star Wars", and we immediately strap your loser ass to the electric chair and pulse 300,000 gigawatts through you.
 
2012-05-22 01:10:44 AM

BobNesta420: "Here's what's up: What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana. I never made a commitment that somehow we were going to give carte blanche to large-scale producers and operators of marijuana


Except, of course, that is a bullshiat lie. Here is what Obama told voters he would do if we elected him.

"I'm not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws on this issue."

Promise broken.
 
2012-05-22 01:13:14 AM

Homicider:
Oh, right. None of you are saying that Obama ought to legalize weed. Not a single one of you. *eyes rolled* Try being honest. Legalizing weed is the ONLY thing that this is about. I'm fine with that, but don't try telling me that somehow it's about "medical marijuana". There are dozens of other, perfectly legal drugs that work just as well, if not better for cancer patients. Furthermore, I fail to see why all of Fark's stoner brigade would care about medical marijuana, were it not for the fact that they know damn good and well that potheads abuse medical pot the same way that hillbillies abuse Oxycotin clinics.


I'm not going to say that I'm not in favor of legalizing weed for recreational use. I'm completely in favor of it. I don't smoke it anymore, despite my Fark handle, but I think there'd be a huge financial advantage to legalization and taxation.

But, the one point I do want to address is the issue of dozens of drugs working just as well, if not better for cancer patients. In some cases, maybe. However, in terms of antiemetics for chemotherapy patients, marijuana has proven to be far more effective than anything else on the market. There are several effective options that a chemotherapy patient can use as an antiemetic, if they are not currently nauseous or vomiting. If they are currently nauseous or vomiting, none of those options are as effective as marijuana. Most involve swallowing a pill which would immediately get vomited back up without having the ability to take effect. Other options are suppositories, though they take far longer to take effect. No other drug is more effective than smoked marijuana in this case. Here's a link to one of many medical research papers on the subject, and it gives a very unbiased view about the legitimacy and efficacy of marijuana as medicine. In case you're interested.
 
2012-05-22 01:20:01 AM

BullBearMS: BobNesta420: "Here's what's up: What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana. I never made a commitment that somehow we were going to give carte blanche to large-scale producers and operators of marijuana

Except, of course, that is a bullshiat lie. Here is what Obama told voters he would do if we elected him.

"I'm not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws on this issue."

Promise broken.


Yeah, I think it's a pretty flimsy excuse, and I'm pretty disappointed with the way he's handled it. From a legal standpoint, I can understand where he's coming from, I guess, but I'm still disappointed.
 
2012-05-22 01:20:08 AM

BullBearMS: BobNesta420: "Here's what's up: What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana. I never made a commitment that somehow we were going to give carte blanche to large-scale producers and operators of marijuana

Except, of course, that is a bullshiat lie. Here is what Obama told voters he would do if we elected him.

"I'm not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws on this issue."

Promise broken.


Thanks for the text, BobNesta. I did read that in RS when it came out. I'm of the same opinion as BullBear. CA state law, if I understand correctly, allows someone with a card to grow up to 99 plants - I may have numbers off - but it's something like that...

What they have done is form co-ops and collected these forms from legitimate card-carrying mmj, and they would plant acres of the herb.

Local law enforcement - because they can't do anything because these are legal by state law - would call the DEA and have them tear up the grow and arrest everyone there. They don't go after the personal growers but these big grows. Regardless, the big grows are in compliance with state law.. but that doesn't matter to the feds. They're going to shut it down.
 
2012-05-22 01:24:32 AM

BobNesta420: BullBearMS: BobNesta420: "Here's what's up: What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana. I never made a commitment that somehow we were going to give carte blanche to large-scale producers and operators of marijuana

Except, of course, that is a bullshiat lie. Here is what Obama told voters he would do if we elected him.

"I'm not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws on this issue."

Promise broken.

Yeah, I think it's a pretty flimsy excuse, and I'm pretty disappointed with the way he's handled it. From a legal standpoint, I can understand where he's coming from, I guess, but I'm still disappointed.


So what's going to happen with CA legalizes cannabis full on? I believe there are several competing ballot measures for full legalization.

If BO only supports medical mj, and one of those ballot measures passes .. then what?

Should be interesting.
 
2012-05-22 01:24:35 AM

Poo_Fight: TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.

Simply because he's not Obama, Right?


No. Romney claims to have never even so much as drank a beer in his entire life.
I doubt very much that somebody who has never even drank a beer would be at all sympathetic to (gasp!) pot smokers.
 
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