Hideously Gigantic Smurf: Ah, Penn Jillette, an avowed atheist who rips on religious people and sends his daughter to THIS school...

http://www.faithlutheranlv.org/

To be fair, I don't know if we'd still consider Lutherans "religious" in this country.

/best schools in my area are run by Quakers.

Mithiwithi: And yes, if we work hard enough (and smart enough), we can move Obama on this. It worked for gays, after all.

/though he hasn't said that his drug policy is evolving, so maybe not

The funny thing is more people (by at least 10%, I think more) support medical marijuana than they do gay marriage. I'm pretty sure full on marijuana legalization is pretty even with gay marriage support. Then again, gay marriage obviously does not have much to do with the government having more power. The amount of people that benefit from the war on drugs that are part of our govt is pretty much the reason that our politicians wont even seriously assess the idea.

Been a fan of Penn for as long as I can remember, and will most likely continue to love him for many, many more years. But he can still be a bit of a blowhard. Sometimes he takes his libertarianism and false equivalencies a bit far.

Obama ran as a centrist, and he governs as a centrist. He never promised to legalize dope. I wish he would advocate it, but the stars are STILL not aligned for a President to take that position. I'm sorry that our political climate is where it is, but Obama cannot take responsibility for that. As it is, the most sensible legislation imaginable won't get passed if he supports it.

And Penn's rage in that clip just doesn't ring true. Like I said, I love the guy and very much of what he represents, but he really needs to start recognizing who is MORE correct (or is the lesser of two evils, whatever), and stop pretending that Obama's electoral victory should have meant that he would solve all of our nation's ills.

He is almost starting to sound like a RON PAUL! supporter (and for all I know, maybe at this point he is).

GoHomeAndGetYourShinebox: Obama ran as a centrist, and he governs as a centrist. He never promised to legalize dope.

Dope? Anyway, he did promise to pull back the feds from states that legalized MEDICAL marijuana. It is an actual campaign promise that he has broken. I'm pretty sure that he is in charge of the justice dept, so he does have the power to actually fulfill this campaign promise. Hell, even if he raided the dispensaries once in a while I wouldn't care but recently there has been a huge increase in raids in California (and a whole bunch of places around me). That said, Romney is an even bigger tool, so I hope Obama wins anyway, because I'm not even sure what Romney would do if he was in charge (on every issue).

DedParrot: This raises a question I've thought about. Say the law about marijuana possession is repealed. What happens to those that are serving time in prison for that crime? Besides being released? Is there more than saying, sorry for taking up x years of your life; no hard feelings?

Those without other convictions, and good behaviour records will likely be released (get busted for pot, kill a guy in jail, you're staying in) but there would be no need for any sort of reparations- anyone in jail for breaking the law broke the law. It may not be a good law, or a just law, but it is the law of the land and you are due no recompense if you are jailed for breaking it.

What everybody who is in jail for marijuana should be doing is clogging the courts systems with appeals. Challenge the validity and/or constitutionality of the law(s) under which they were indicted.

Sitting on your couch smoking a joint and complaining about "the man" won't change the situation.
Posting on the internet about how it isn't fair won't change the situation.
The problem is the system, but the system can only be changed from within the system. So if you get busted for pot, don't take a plea deal, probation, or whatever. Plead not guilty and fight every step of the way.

TheJoe03: GoHomeAndGetYourShinebox: Obama ran as a centrist, and he governs as a centrist. He never promised to legalize dope.

Dope? Anyway, he did promise to pull back the feds from states that legalized MEDICAL marijuana. It is an actual campaign promise that he has broken. I'm pretty sure that he is in charge of the justice dept, so he does have the power to actually fulfill this campaign promise. Hell, even if he raided the dispensaries once in a while I wouldn't care but recently there has been a huge increase in raids in California (and a whole bunch of places around me). That said, Romney is an even bigger tool, so I hope Obama wins anyway, because I'm not even sure what Romney would do if he was in charge (on every issue).

vote cthulu/dagon 2012

They're my write in candidates.

TheJoe03: GoHomeAndGetYourShinebox: Obama ran as a centrist, and he governs as a centrist. He never promised to legalize dope.

Dope? Anyway, he did promise to pull back the feds from states that legalized MEDICAL marijuana. It is an actual campaign promise that he has broken. I'm pretty sure that he is in charge of the justice dept, so he does have the power to actually fulfill this campaign promise. Hell, even if he raided the dispensaries once in a while I wouldn't care but recently there has been a huge increase in raids in California (and a whole bunch of places around me). That said, Romney is an even bigger tool, so I hope Obama wins anyway, because I'm not even sure what Romney would do if he was in charge (on every issue).

Everything I've read indicates that the raids in stats with legalized Medical were raids on places distributing to not just medicinal users. Oh, and that one place in California that applied for federal funds to run a school for pot-growers.

And he can't just "not enforce the laws" both because that would be a neglect of his duties as chief executive, and because him not enforcing the laws would only work as long as he's the guy in that seat. If he simply ordered the DoJ to not persue or prosecute marijuana cases, lots of the support that advocacy groups receive would evaporate, until someone else is in the Big Seat and then we'd be right back where we are now, but perhaps with someone less sympathetic to the cause running things.

Jorn the Younger: raids in states with legalized Medical

ftfm

Also, pretty sure what Candidate Obama said was he wouldn't prioritize Marijuana enforcement, so not so much a broken promise as much as people attributing positions to the Candidate and the Candidate not working to hard to correct little misunderstandings like that.

DedParrot: This raises a question I've thought about. Say the law about marijuana possession is repealed. What happens to those that are serving time in prison for that crime? Besides being released? Is there more than saying, sorry for taking up x years of your life; no hard feelings?

IANAL but... I think nothing happens for them by default.

No release unless they offer a blanket pardon (and I'm pretty sure there are different people who do that depending on whether you are held local/state/federal levell).

The key is that the criminal did something that was illegal at the time.

The only exception would be if the SCOTUS somehow found the law had never been constitutional in the first place (which won't happen) in which case.... I have no farking idea?

Jorn the Younger: Also, pretty sure what Candidate Obama said was he wouldn't prioritize Marijuana enforcement, so not so much a broken promise as much as people attributing positions to the Candidate and the Candidate not working to hard to correct little misunderstandings like that.

No, he actually did step back the enforcement in his first year in power, but the next year he did an about face.

slayer199: TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.

True, but this doesn't excuse Obama.

Yes it does. The Republican-Democratic Electoral Machine doesn't want marijuana legal. Therefore, marijuana is not legal.

IlGreven: slayer199: TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.

True, but this doesn't excuse Obama.

Yes it does. The people lobbying and donating to the Republican-Democratic Electoral Machine don't want marijuana legal. Therefore, marijuana is not legal.

FTFY.

TheJoe03: Jorn the Younger: Also, pretty sure what Candidate Obama said was he wouldn't prioritize Marijuana enforcement, so not so much a broken promise as much as people attributing positions to the Candidate and the Candidate not working to hard to correct little misunderstandings like that.

No, he actually did step back the enforcement in his first year in power, but the next year he did an about face.

Those may have been the President's actions, but that doesn't mean Candidate Obama promised not to enforce then went back on that, it simply means there were fewer items of higher prority in his second year.

Of course, if there's a youtube video of Candidate Obama saying he'd not enforce federal law, I'd love to see it.

TommyymmoT: slayer199: TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.

True, but this doesn't excuse Obama.

Agreed. I held out hope that something positive would happen under Clinton, but nope.

If you're holding out hope that a president is going to change the law, you're gonna be hoping a long time. Perhaps hoping for a middle-school civics class telling you what the roles of the branches of government are would be more realistic?

Jorn the Younger: Those may have been the President's actions, but that doesn't mean Candidate Obama promised not to enforce then went back on that, it simply means there were fewer items of higher prority in his second year.

Of course, if there's a youtube video of Candidate Obama saying he'd not enforce federal law, I'd love to see it.

He promised to put a lower priority on medical marijuana and has instead stepped up his actions. Again, he promised to LOWER the enforcement of the feds against state laws. I know it sucks that he went against it, but stop acting like it didn't happen.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/10/07/obama-administration- s hatters-campaign-promise-escalates-crackdown-on-medical-marijuana/

Get rid of the spaces on the link, it pretty much disproves the spin you are saying.

thamike: Grow the f*ck up, people.

Maybe you should stop being so complacent and hold our elected officials to some kind of standard. Again, if he never claimed he would step back from the federal harassment on medical marijuana, than I wouldn't hold him up to any kind of standard on this issue.

Said it before and I'll say it again. Marijuana is not a pressing issue for the US. Love Penn, and he is right, but Obama should not be wasting his time on an issue which isn't urgent, and would do nothing but cost him politically.

More evidence, what excuse do you guys have now? The denial is unnecessary.

Close2TheEdge: Said it before and I'll say it again. Marijuana is not a pressing issue for the US. Love Penn, and he is right, but Obama should not be wasting his time on an issue which isn't urgent, and would do nothing but cost him politically.

The problem is that he has put a big priority on shutting down the medical marijuana clubs. It would be one thing if there was no change in that certain policy, but that's not what's going on.

TheJoe03: Get rid of the spaces on the link, it pretty much disproves the spin you are saying.

Thanks for the link- I hadn't seen anything about medical dispensary raids anywhere. Please note however, that I'm not attempting to "spin" anything, I'm attempting to have a discussion about a situation.

If you're interested in my personal opinion, I think medical legalization is garbage; I support total legalization, and I don't think medical legalization is a productive step towards that goal.

And again, the only quote I've seen from Candidate Obama was that he "would not prioritize" which is not a promise broken by an increase in enforcement from previous levels. Any argument regarding prioritization cannot be made by comparing this years apples to last years apples, but rather by comparing this years apples to every other fruit in the market.

If there's a clip or quote you can provide of Candidate Obama saying he would not enforce mariguana law, or where he explicitly promised to scale back or decrease enforcement, I'd love to see it.

dell dude agrees

keithgabryelski: I don't want a politician who was stupid enough to be caught with drugs.

doing drugs? i don't give a shiat -- getting caught with them: you're a farking loser.

This is true, actually. Any person who possesses wealth and power, and allows their personal habits to become public knowledge is either very stupid, or has allowed one or more of those habits to get out of control.

TheJoe03: Close2TheEdge: Said it before and I'll say it again. Marijuana is not a pressing issue for the US. Love Penn, and he is right, but Obama should not be wasting his time on an issue which isn't urgent, and would do nothing but cost him politically.

The problem is that he has put a big priority on shutting down the medical marijuana clubs. It would be one thing if there was no change in that certain policy, but that's not what's going on.

Everything I have read is the DOJ is going after the large scale operations. Not unexpected since they have to enforce federal drug laws. You can't expect that they will simply shut that down and ignore obvious drug trafficking.

jdmac: he is basically continuing the Bush Nixon era policies on the War on Drugs.

FTFÝ

I have no idea why the war on drugs (and specifically marijuana) has become a political third rail but apparently it has. Even "ZOMG libby mcliberal socialist commie pinko" presidents like Clinton and Obama won't touch it with a 10 ft pole. And it's really stupid by now because America is one of the drug abusingest countries on the planet. Americans clearly want the stuff, and if we'll let them smoke tobacco (for fark's sake!) then legalizing pot seems like a no-brainer.

Maybe as Congress gets more saturated with former heads that'll change. But it's pretty obviously entrenched and there must be some big money behind it.

/no, I don't agree with criminalized pot no matter who's in the white house

More righteous indignation Obama hasn't picked their pet issue to champion? Not that being righteous is all that hard for Mr. Jillette on any issue that bothers to pop into his head.

Mithiwithi: TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.

Yup. We should still keep poking at Obama over this, though. The only way we'll ever move forward is if we try to push our politicians out of their comfort zone.

And yes, if we work hard enough (and smart enough), we can move Obama on this. It worked for gays, after all.

/though he hasn't said that his drug policy is evolving, so maybe not

We need to get Joey B. high Sunday morning and send him to the pundit shows.

Thwartme: I love Penn, used to listen to his radio show all the time, watch Bullshiat, have seen P&T live many times. His very entertaining, and a really smart, well informed guy.

But every once in a while, he gets his head rammed right up his arse, and he just gets everything wrong.

Thanks,
thwartme

This. He needs to drop the RON PAUL/AYN RAND bullshiat. I could barely finish his book because of some dippy rant on retarded RON PAULism. The rest of the book was actually pretty good.

I am not a fan of drug legalization (I would tolerate pot being legal) but I think Penn makes a cromulent point

The President is laughing and joking about something -that- he is heading the government that is putting people in jail for. Thats UNSEEMLY and tacky
He is laughing and carrying on about something he did that, if he had one bad day would have destroyed his life. Thats unseemly and tacky

IlGreven: Yes it does. The Republican-Democratic Electoral Machine Soccer moms and Maude Flanders types doesn't want marijuana legal. And they vote. Therefore, marijuana is not legal.

FTFY

Well all righty then.

GoHomeAndGetYourShinebox: Been a fan of Penn for as long as I can remember, and will most likely continue to love him for many, many more years. But he can still be a bit of a blowhard. Sometimes he takes his libertarianism and false equivalencies a bit far.

Obama ran as a centrist, and he governs as a centrist. He never promised to legalize dope. I wish he would advocate it, but the stars are STILL not aligned for a President to take that position. I'm sorry that our political climate is where it is, but Obama cannot take responsibility for that. As it is, the most sensible legislation imaginable won't get passed if he supports it.

And Penn's rage in that clip just doesn't ring true. Like I said, I love the guy and very much of what he represents, but he really needs to start recognizing who is MORE correct (or is the lesser of two evils, whatever), and stop pretending that Obama's electoral victory should have meant that he would solve all of our nation's ills.

He is almost starting to sound like a RON PAUL! supporter (and for all I know, maybe at this point he is).

He seems to have been, at least as of four years ago.

Link

I know that my life revolves around the legalization of recreational marijuana use so much that it is my sole criterion for choosing a President. Anyone who doesn't see that this is the most important issue in the United States today has their priorities all wrong.

I don't defend Obama's policies. He continues to fight the senseless war on drugs.

On this one thing I agree with Jilette. But he's stiil an annoying pompous jerk. His showbiz career is over, at least on the national stage. So now he rants about politics. Which is his right. But he's a jerk.

Hideously Gigantic Smurf: Ah, Penn Jillette, an avowed atheist who rips on religious people and sends his daughter to THIS school...

http://www.faithlutheranlv.org/


That is awesome!

Jillette may be an atheist, but as far as I can tell, he's not a New Atheist. No New Atheist would say something like this.

TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.

Both sides are bad so vote Democratic?


/Vote Green or Libertarian if you really want to make a mark

The "youth vote" is simply not going to turn out in big numbers for Obama, knowing that he really doesn't care whether they're in mom's basement, Afghanistan, college, or prison. Most of the 20-somethings who rushed out to vote for Obama enthusiastically last time will be sitting this one out, I guarantee you. If he needs the youth vote to be re-elected, he's not going to be re-elected.

tomWright: TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.

Both sides are bad so vote Democratic?


/Vote Green or Libertarian if you really want to make a mark

Really..because neither of those parties is going to be elected; so what mark would I be making again?

/Ron Paul is NOT VIABLE.

tirob: I know that my life revolves around the legalization of recreational marijuana use so much that it is my sole criterion for choosing a President.

In that case, please try to keep up. Gary Johnson is the guy now. Get enough buzz going and he may be included in the presidential debates this fall.

Why should I care what some long winded Vegas magician cares about anyway? I'm sure Criss Angel wants to legalize weed too.

Penn is what dorks think a cool person sounds like.

Nice ponytail, bro.

Penn ranting about Obama joking about stuff that ruins people's lives is an endorsement of Romney? He is loaded I guess...

It really doesn't matter how correct someone is about Obama's hypocrisy.... the Fark White Knights will be sure to swoop in and attack any who question his pure soul.

Very sad that Penn's (excellent) point is so easily lost on the bots.

Rapmaster2000: Penn is what dorks think a cool person sounds like.

Nice ponytail, bro.

If you still try to figure out if a person is cool are not, you still have some growing up to do.

LordJiro: IlGreven: slayer199: TommyymmoT: Romney wouldn't be any better.
If anything, he'd be worse.

True, but this doesn't excuse Obama.

Yes it does. The people lobbying and donating to the Republican-Democratic Electoral Machine don't want marijuana legal. Therefore, marijuana is not legal.

FTFY.

QFT

I recently listened to a Greg Proops podcast wherein, during his "boring, preachy part," he read an article listing all those fighting to keep marijuana illegal. Among them were lobbyists for the alcohol, cigarette, prison, and pharmaceutical industries.

Billions of dollars are being spent by private industry to use the gov't as a weapon against something that threatens their businesses.

This is NOT what capitalism is. In a truly capitalist system, they would have to compete on the merits of their products, and (as a function of free speech) against their competitors. So if they want to put out PSAs, fine; but it's wrong for them to sponsor state suppression of things that shift consumer dollars away from them. It's even more wrong for the gov't to "sell" it's services in this manner. This is how cartels behave, not free markets protected under the rule of principled law.

/capitalist
//former pot smoker
///anti-prohibition

It seems like Obama is just a terrible Republican president.