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(Politico)   As they are faced with actually governing the country, a growing number of GOP freshman are realizing that basing the country's tax policy on a pledge they swore to a lobbyist based on idea he had when he was 13 is kinda insane, actually   (politico.com) divider line 113
    More: Obvious, Grover Norquist, GOP, Americans for Tax Reform, lobbyists, freshman, grover, Robert Dold  
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5529 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 May 2012 at 3:41 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-20 02:55:34 PM
A small but increasingly vocal group of freshman Republicans are publicly rejecting the idea they are beholden to Grover Norquist's Americans for Tax Reform pledge for their entire congressional careers.
...
Despite his apparent nonchalance, Norquist did note he had "been in touch with the Republican Party in [Rigell's] district, and they aren't excited about it. This is not going to be a continuing problem."

Burn the heretic! Kill the RINO! Purge the unclean!

/enjoy your tea-ridden primary challenges, you socialist, Christ-hating pedophiles
//seriously, f*ck Norquist
 
2012-05-20 02:59:55 PM
You cannot base tax policy on absolutes. There are shifting conditions, and you have to adjust to those conditions. At some point folks are going to have to come to grips with the responsibility that they've been given.
 
2012-05-20 03:06:56 PM

hubiestubert: You cannot base tax policy on absolutes. There are shifting conditions, and you have to adjust to those conditions. At some point folks are going to have to come to grips with the responsibility that they've been given.


The GOP mentality can't handle shades of grey. They have to establish a walled garden of ideology, and conceptually the tax pledge lets them do that. It's how they separate the RINOs from the Real Americans.

Not Christian? RINO.
Have a 'funny' foreign-sounding name? RINO.
Didn't sign the tax pledge? RINO.
Ever suggested negotiating with Democrats? RINO.
Disagree with Rush Limbaugh? RINO.
Hold dual-citizenship? RINO.

You can adhere to every (official) plank of the party while falling afoul of everything I've listed above, but they will still consider you a RINO based on superficial characteristics meant to prevent discussion or thinking.
 
2012-05-20 03:08:18 PM

hubiestubert: You cannot base tax policy on absolutes. There are shifting conditions, and you have to adjust to those conditions. At some point folks are going to have to come to grips with the responsibility that they've been given.


But that requires thinking and nuance and doesn't fit well into a 10 second sound byte.
 
2012-05-20 03:11:48 PM
Oh my god, the GOP is going to raise taxes and destroy america!!!
 
2012-05-20 03:14:13 PM

Doctor Funkenstein: But that requires thinking and nuance and doesn't fit well into a 10 second sound byte.


tl;dr
 
2012-05-20 03:24:20 PM
hubiestubert: You cannot base tax policy on absolutes.

One thing to keep in mind, if you can stand the discomfort, is that these are people who were elected on the basis that they promised they would not make informed decisions.

If you (anyone) voted for them, you're making the same promise. And you should be proud of yourself. Especially since no one else should be.
 
2012-05-20 03:24:46 PM

hubiestubert: You cannot base tax any policy on absolutes. There are shifting conditions, and you have to adjust to those conditions. At some point folks are going to have to come to grips with the responsibility that they've been given.


Fixed for more truth, though you were of course correct.
 
2012-05-20 03:35:55 PM

DamnYankees: hubiestubert: You cannot base tax any policy on absolutes. There are shifting conditions, and you have to adjust to those conditions. At some point folks are going to have to come to grips with the responsibility that they've been given.

Fixed for more truth, though you were of course correct.


Exactly. You can campaign on something like "Small Pox should be Eradicated". But then you end up with questions like, "Should we destroy our lab-controlled stockpiles of small pox in order to completely eradicate it, even though we might need them for future research? What if we missed a tiny spot somewhere, and can't create a vaccine when we need it?"
 
2012-05-20 03:46:26 PM
Not a goddamn single one of those Farkers will balls up and vote to update the tax code.
 
2012-05-20 03:48:29 PM
I'm confused. How will raising taxes block access to contraception or make abortions illegal?
 
2012-05-20 03:50:04 PM

DamnYankees: hubiestubert: You cannot base tax any policy on absolutes. There are shifting conditions, and you have to adjust to those conditions. At some point folks are going to have to come to grips with the responsibility that they've been given.

Fixed for more truth, though you were of course correct.


Seconded. "Adapt or die", as an adage, applies well to the political arena. Grover's reaction is even more telling:

"I don't lie awake at night thinking any of these characters are going to vote for a tax increase," Norquist said. "The leadership is not going to bring it up. All but six Republicans in the House have signed the pledge and they have a 25-vote margin. It's a moot point."

He already owns the right people, so why worry about a small group of vocal malcontents, right? Eventually, the GOP will get over this conservative crusade and figure out that they need to adapt or die, politically speaking.
 
2012-05-20 03:50:36 PM
www.myfacewhen.net
"Conservatives are devoted to simplistic and childish ideas"
 
2012-05-20 03:52:46 PM
you don't get to leave the cult. those people signed the oath in their own blood...there IS no backing out now!
 
2012-05-20 03:53:17 PM
t.qkme.me
 
2012-05-20 03:54:12 PM
What I want to know is WHY ON EARTH DID IT TAKE THEM TWO YEARS TO REALIZE THAT IDIOTIC PLEDGE WAS A BAD IDEA?
 
2012-05-20 03:56:41 PM

Notabunny: I'm confused. How will raising taxes block access to contraception or make abortions illegal?


Fetuses can't pay taxes. Yet.
 
2012-05-20 03:59:15 PM
Taxes, schmaxes. The only thing any conservative should be thinking about is getting rid of 0bama. It's better that the whole country burn to the ground than for a Kenyan muslim socialist LOOK HE'S JUST BAD OK??
 
2012-05-20 04:00:12 PM

HMS_Blinkin: What I want to know is WHY ON EARTH DID IT TAKE THEM TWO YEARS TO REALIZE THAT IDIOTIC PLEDGE WAS A BAD IDEA?


they were blinded by the socialisms.
 
2012-05-20 04:02:13 PM
Grover started yelling at my campaign manager. Grover is a nice guy

Way to contradict yourself, West.
 
2012-05-20 04:04:11 PM

HempHead: Notabunny: I'm confused. How will raising taxes block access to contraception or make abortions illegal?

Fetuses can't pay taxes. Yet.


we should just go to a caste system. someone is born with public assistance? parents on welfare? you start life owing the government...hmm....$20 million dollars. you pay that off and you can get out of the low caste block housing and have a real life. until then, you will live in government housing, wear government approved jumpsuits, eat government approved food and work in a government job (the government will train you for it).

And we can add in racial classifications as well.
 
2012-05-20 04:04:49 PM

Weaver95: you don't get to leave the cult. those people signed the oath in their own blood...there IS no backing out now!


What Grover Norquist may actually look like:
4.bp.blogspot.com

" Purging is at last at hand. Day of Doom is here. All that is evil, all their allies; The RINOS, The Democrats, those who would call themselves public Servants; those who have taxed and spent, they shall all be cleansed.
 
2012-05-20 04:05:58 PM

fusillade762: Grover started yelling at my campaign manager. Grover is a nice guy

Way to contradict yourself, West.


Norquist probably IS a nice guy...as long as you're doing what he tells you to do. he only morphs into a monster when someone disagrees with him.
 
2012-05-20 04:07:51 PM

fusillade762: Grover started yelling at my campaign manager. Grover is a nice guy

Way to contradict yourself, West.


This is the most telling thing in the article, When convicted war criminal Allen, "I have in my pocket the names of 80 Democrats who are active members of the Communist Party" West thinks you are a raving lunatic....
 
2012-05-20 04:13:09 PM
While I don't support the Norquist idiocy, he does have a right to lobby his interests.

What I DO have a problem with, however, is absolutism that infects the GOP. I'd love to see Cantor and McConnell brought up on treason charges.
 
2012-05-20 04:16:59 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: While I don't support the Norquist idiocy, he does have a right to lobby his interests.

What I DO have a problem with, however, is absolutism that infects the GOP. I'd love to see Cantor and McConnell brought up on treason charges.


I don't think anyone begrudges his right to express his brand of stoopid. What they question is the validity of the policy, and the effect that adhering to it will have on the nation. The problem isn't his right to express his opinion, but the folks who conflate opposition to his ideas and the bone stoopid that it represents as an attack as an attempt to muzzle him.

If anything, a wider discussion and dissection of his dumbassery is needed.
 
2012-05-20 04:21:15 PM
". ... I think he'll make it
clear he's not going to raise taxes and he'll get
himself reelected and whatever momentary impure thoughts he had on taxes will pass."
`
Interesting choice of words there.
 
2012-05-20 04:27:01 PM
i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-05-20 04:27:21 PM
In other news, slashing Social Security and Medicare benefits, which are paid for by specific taxes, is not "raising taxes". Raising taxes is bad, slashing benefits without a commensurate slash in taxes... ok!
 
2012-05-20 04:28:35 PM

Sid_6.7: hubiestubert: You cannot base tax policy on absolutes. There are shifting conditions, and you have to adjust to those conditions. At some point folks are going to have to come to grips with the responsibility that they've been given.

The GOP mentality can't handle shades of grey. They have to establish a walled garden of ideology, and conceptually the tax pledge lets them do that. It's how they separate the RINOs from the Real Americans.

Not Christian? RINO.
Have a 'funny' foreign-sounding name? RINO.
Didn't sign the tax pledge? RINO.
Ever suggested negotiating with Democrats? RINO.
Disagree with Rush Limbaugh? RINO.
Hold dual-citizenship? RINO.

You can adhere to every (official) plank of the party while falling afoul of everything I've listed above, but they will still consider you a RINO based on superficial characteristics meant to prevent discussion or thinking.


This is a sign that the "GOP mentality" you claim isn't really the "GOP mentality". The GOP isn't as diverse a base in beliefs as the Democratic Party, but it is still fractured. The only problem is that the loudest people are the true moralist assholes right now, but keep in mind that the leader for the nomination is someone that voted for socialistic healthcare and is from a state where a Republican is more to the left than Republicans and some Democrats in the South and flyover country, while the two darlings of the people you speak of (tea party fave Paul and hypermoralist Santorum) are out of the race. So the loudest people might be assholes, but the voters obviously aren't buying it. Orly Taitz and Bachmann got nowhere with their election bids, either.
 
2012-05-20 04:32:54 PM

bhcompy: The only problem is that the loudest people are the true moralist assholes right now, but keep in mind that the leader for the nomination is someone that voted for socialistic healthcare


Too bad he's also a well lubricated weather vane. Guess which way the GOP wind is blowing.

Norquist basically came up with the political equivalent of the pet rock.
 
2012-05-20 04:34:04 PM
"I got home and they wanted me to sign again during my campaign, and I wouldn't, and Grover started yelling at my campaign manager. Grover is a nice guy, but I think he's a little misguided."


yeah he sounds like a really nice guy.

i30.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-20 04:38:03 PM
If they ever supported it, they cannot be trusted with the power of elected office at any level.
 
2012-05-20 04:40:03 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: bhcompy: The only problem is that the loudest people are the true moralist assholes right now, but keep in mind that the leader for the nomination is someone that voted for socialistic healthcare

Too bad he's also a well lubricated weather vane. Guess which way the GOP wind is blowing.

Norquist basically came up with the political equivalent of the pet rock.


Or, conversely, he's pandering for votes, but that will only help him if he cops to what he did after the nomination, because it did Kerry no good to be a flipflopper.
 
2012-05-20 04:41:04 PM
Why would anyone tolerate a GOPer is beyond me. They should really be treated as the modern equivalent of the negro in 19th and early 20th century America, looked at in disgust and as sub-human.
Ruthless marginalization in our social ranks should be their only destiny.
 
2012-05-20 04:42:57 PM
"He's confused ... although Rigell says he might be open to tax increases at some point down the road, the Democrats aren't interested in the kind of tax hike in return for spending cuts he might imagine exists," Norquist said of the Virginian. "And Republicans aren't going to offer anything to him. So we're having a hypothetical conversation about adopting a unicorn if one dropped by."
"You don't go to jail for talking about what kind of banks you might rob, you only go to jail for robbing banks," Norquist added.


i30.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-20 04:51:28 PM
The main thing is they came to this conclusion WITHOUT the government's help.
 
2012-05-20 04:58:30 PM
A small but increasingly vocal group of freshman Republicans are publicly rejecting the idea they are beholden to Grover Norquist's Americans for Tax Reform pledge for their entire congressional careers, which they are starting to realize is only going to be one term if they don't stop acting like asshats, and do some actual farking governing.
 
2012-05-20 05:17:24 PM
Grover tried pushing his nonsense about Saint Reagan on Maher this past Friday, what he somehow forgot to mention was the fact that Reagan raised taxes over 15 times including the highest increase in history.
 
2012-05-20 05:20:10 PM
Didn't a Time Man of the Year in the 1930s demand oaths of loyalty?

/probably a Kennedy or a Roosevelt
 
2012-05-20 05:23:34 PM

intelligent comment below: Grover tried pushing his nonsense about Saint Reagan on Maher this past Friday, what he somehow forgot to mention was the fact that Reagan raised taxes over 15 times including the highest increase in history.


To be fair, Reagan haters also forget that part, too. And Arnold gets the same shiat
 
2012-05-20 05:28:43 PM

Boatmech: ". ... I think he'll make it
clear he's not going to raise taxes and he'll get
himself reelected and whatever momentary impure thoughts he had on taxes will pass."
`
Interesting choice of words there.


Well remember, by Grover's own admission, he came up with this pledge when he was 13 years old, which means he was thinking about the Tax Code while most of us we desperately trying to figure out what color panties the girl who sat next to us in homeroom was wearing, or trying to find a copy of Playboy that somebody threw away near the old creek that wasn't too badly water-logged. So it's not uprisings he may have the two subjects a little confused in his head
 
2012-05-20 05:29:03 PM

intelligent comment below: Grover tried pushing his nonsense about Saint Reagan on Maher this past Friday, what he somehow forgot to mention was the fact that Reagan raised taxes over 15 times including the highest increase in history.


He also said our recovery was slower than Canada's. I don't think comparing the this country to Canada with their socialist medicine and huge oil reserves is comparable.
 
2012-05-20 05:30:43 PM

Guidette Frankentits: He also said our recovery was slower than Canada's. I don't think comparing the this country to Canada with their socialist medicine and huge oil reserves is comparable.


The US has enormous oil reserves, we just aren't going after it as hard(shale, which is just slight bit a more of a pain in the ass than oil sands).
 
2012-05-20 05:31:46 PM

bhcompy: To be fair, Reagan haters also forget that part, too. And Arnold gets the same shiat


What? Reagan haters forget it? No, they keep having to remind you idiots that your savior was a moderate.
 
2012-05-20 05:32:03 PM

Weaver95: you don't get to leave the cult. those people signed the oath in their own blood...there IS no backing out now!


Yeah, I don't even have that big a problem with Norquist. If I say, "I would like to punch you in the balls, for America" and you say, "Wow, OK! Where do I sign?" it's your problem more than it is mine.
 
2012-05-20 05:32:38 PM

bhcompy: The US has enormous oil reserves, we just aren't going after it as hard(shale, which is just slight bit a more of a pain in the ass than oil sands).



Any remaining American reserves are too expensive to get out of the ground and not economically viable with the price of oil the way it is.
 
2012-05-20 05:34:37 PM

Guidette Frankentits: He also said our recovery was slower than Canada's. I don't think comparing the this country to Canada with their socialist medicine and huge oil reserves is comparable.


The biggest thing that saved Canada during the ongoing financial crisis and recession was their strict banking laws. Their investment bankers never got into the nonsense that the rest of the world did, so they didn't lose their shirts.
 
2012-05-20 05:36:20 PM
So are the Teabaggers going to get Teabagged?

Sounds like within a few election cycles the entire GOP will be reduced to this:

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-05-20 05:38:29 PM

intelligent comment below: bhcompy: To be fair, Reagan haters also forget that part, too. And Arnold gets the same shiat

What? Reagan haters forget it? No, they keep having to remind you idiots that your savior was a moderate.


Nah, intelligent people know it. Reagan haters are dumb, because hating a moderate is ridiculously stupid.
 
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