FARK.com: (7116343) Middle school teacher writes on his Facebook page that homosexuality is tantamount to murder. What, he shouldn't have said that?

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		Middle school teacher writes on his Facebook page that homosexuality is tantamount to murder. What, he shouldn't have said that? (huffingtonpost.com)		250
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Salt Lick Steady		2012-05-20 12:12:16 PM

s2s2s2: /Doesnotfacebookatall

I do it under a fake name, and only to a limited number of people who use it as their exclusive form of online communication. It's usually posts of stupid pictures I come across on Fark.

FlashHarry		2012-05-20 12:13:25 PM

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: tl;dr

1001films.files.wordpress.com

all right, apart from

Coffee
Cameras
Experimental Physics
Chess
Soap
Shampoo
Perfume/spirits
Irrigation
Crank-shaft, internal combustion engine, valves, pistons
Combination locks
Architectural innovation (pointed arch -European Gothic cathedrals adopted this technique as it made the building much stronger, rose windows, dome buildings, round towers, etc.)
Surgical instruments
Anesthesia
Windmills
Treatment for Cowpox
Fountain pens
A numbering system
Algebra/Trigonometry
Modern Cryptology
The 3 course meal (soup, meat/fish, fruit/nuts)
Crystal glasses
Carpets
Checks
Gardens used for beauty and meditation instead of for herbs and kitchen.
Universities
Optics
Music
Toothbrushes
Hospitals
Bathing
Quilting
Mariner's Compass
Soft drinks
Pendulums
Braille
Cosmetics
Plastic surgery
Calligraphy
and the manufacturing of paper and cloth...

what have the muslims done for us?

s2s2s2		2012-05-20 12:13:57 PM

The Larch: Then perhaps you should should stop commenting on the beliefs and practices of Muslims. Or, admit that you're a hypocritical Christian

I acknowledged that muslims believe homosexuality to be a sin(generally speaking, of course). I asked if ridicule was ok if administered evenly. Apparently, it is not. I mean, it is not like there are any muslim nations where homosexuality will get you killed. But posting your religious beliefs of facebook = MONSTER!

s2s2s2		2012-05-20 12:16:46 PM

FlashHarry: what have the muslims done for us?

Was it the Islam that did it, or the people who happened to be living in Islamic nations? Where there any controversies over these gifts to culture along the same lines as with the Catholic church? Are you using a metric that would suggest Christians gave us (list achievements of people funded by, while not believing in Catholic teachings)?

Highway61Revisited		2012-05-20 12:17:45 PM

s2s2s2: Highway61Revisited: What this guy said was certainly hateful and bigoted

Reading his whole quote, I disagree. Bigoted, yes, of course. Any disagreement with someone else based on your own beliefs is bigotry. Anyone that has a problem with this guy...also a bigot. Hateful? I think not. He posts in accordance with his religion, and specifies that there is no hate behind it. He genuinely believes that people committed to a lifestyle which he believes (I do not) damns them to eternal suffering would be helping themselves to resist it, you know, the way he is doing. Christians have given the world a great many good things. Muslims have given the world a great many good things. Christianity and Islam have both also given the world a lot of shiatty things, as have(has?) any other group in history.

I get your point... however the fruits of his theology practiced by real live human beings leads to hate. The whole "love the sinner hate the sin" justification is mere handwaving.

Vangor		2012-05-20 12:18:47 PM

s2s2s2: and specifies that there is no hate behind it.

He is the guy who worships a deity who hates homosexuality enough to condemn homosexuals to an eternity of fire and brimstone, or whatever suffering he believes a hell would consist of. He hates homosexuality. He says he does not because he believes this shifts the argument from himself onto an entire religion, and people are protective of religions in general, in particular ones with great similarity no matter the striking the differences. He is at best lying to himself.

lennavan		2012-05-20 12:20:51 PM

s2s2s2: Highway61Revisited: What this guy said was certainly hateful and bigoted

Reading his whole quote, I disagree. Bigoted, yes, of course. Any disagreement with someone else based on your own beliefs is bigotry. Anyone that has a problem with this guy...also a bigot. Hateful? I think not. He posts in accordance with his religion, and specifies that there is no hate behind it. He genuinely believes that people committed to a lifestyle which he believes (I do not) damns them to eternal suffering would be helping themselves to resist it, you know, the way he is doing. Christians have given the world a great many good things. Muslims have given the world a great many good things. Christianity and Islam have both also given the world a lot of shiatty things, as have(has?) any other group in history.

I'm gonna go out on a wild crazy limb here and suggest the shiatty things done by other groups pale in comparison and magnitude to the things done in the name of religion. The world would be a significantly better place if we just eradicated religion entirely.

Theaetetus		2012-05-20 12:21:20 PM

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: Windmills
Treatment for Cowpox

img.photobucket.com

s2s2s2		2012-05-20 12:21:51 PM

Highway61Revisited: I get your point... however the fruits of his theology practiced by real live human beings leads to hate. The whole "love the sinner hate the sin" justification is mere handwaving.

Yeah, I know. My father(and I cannot stress this enough, as his actions trump his beliefs), who doesn't hate gays at all, gave me reason to leave his church by rejecting the idea that gay marriage(while he believes should be legal) could be legitimate. My wife(common law) and I have decided not to get legally married until gay people can.

Dwight_Yeast		2012-05-20 12:22:13 PM

ReapTheChaos: "I wrote what I wrote for my Facebook friends who understand my heart and my intent," Conkling told the Hutchinson News. "I understand that there were some folks who didn't understand my heart, and while that's sad, it is what it is."

I like how these bigoted morons always try to sugar coat their views to make themselves sound less ignorant. Assholes like this is why I rarely admit to being a Christian anymore.

What I find fascinating about the "It's what I believe, so you can't attack me for it" defense is that it seems to come out of a liberal notion from the 1960s that we shouldn't tell people their views are right or wrong, only that they're "different". It's the same sort of thinking which has lead the news media to report on completely unfiltered crazy as the other side of the story in the name of "balance".

/Speaking as a liberal, I'm happy to say that, no, some people's views are not valid, and they deserve to be ignored or ridiculed by society. Those who preach bigotry and intolerance, for example.

s2s2s2		2012-05-20 12:22:35 PM

Vangor: a deity who hates homosexuality enough to condemn homosexuals to an eternity of fire and brimstone,

[citation.plz]

A_Listless_Wanderer		2012-05-20 12:23:02 PM

AMonkey'sUncle: Conkling? Our Miss Brooks will never marry him now.

I get it!

/GOML

rudemix		2012-05-20 12:23:51 PM

Then lead by example closeted teacher Guy. Campaign actively against equal sins in your own church and party. I expect we'll see you driving out adulterers, cheaters, liars, those who judge and other equal sinners soon.

The Larch		2012-05-20 12:24:48 PM

s2s2s2: The Larch: Then perhaps you should should stop commenting on the beliefs and practices of Muslims. Or, admit that you're a hypocritical Christian

I acknowledged that muslims believe homosexuality to be a sin(generally speaking, of course). I asked if ridicule was ok if administered evenly. Apparently, it is not. I mean, it is not like there are any muslim nations where homosexuality will get you killed. But posting your religious beliefs of facebook = MONSTER!

You were the one who said that you believe that your Christian faith prohibits you from ridiculing Muslims. I dont know why you're now asking me if it is morally permissable for you to ridicule muslims. Why dont you go pray for the answer, or ask someone else in your church? I can't imagine why you think that a random person on the Internet can help you answer a question about your faith.

s2s2s2		2012-05-20 12:26:05 PM

lennavan: I'm gonna go out on a wild crazy limb here and suggest the shiatty things done by other groups pale in comparison and magnitude to the things done in the name of religion. The world would be a significantly better place if we just eradicated religion entirely.

Unless you consider Stalin to have acted under the auspices of atheism as a religion, you are wrong. Plenty of atrocities committed at the hands of the non-religious. I'll even give you Hitler as a "christian" and he still killed fewer people than Stalin did. Russian genocide > German genocide. Besides, the Catholics were protecting pagan virgin worship, not actual christianity. Many of the victims of their evil were deemed guilty for reading the bible and realizing the Vatican was terribly wrong.

Vangor		2012-05-20 12:28:32 PM

s2s2s2: Vangor: a deity who hates homosexuality enough to condemn homosexuals to an eternity of fire and brimstone,

[citation.plz]

I am not assigning any qualities to his deity he has not:

"Sin is sin and we all deserve hell. Only those who accept Christ as Lord and daily with the help of the Spirit do their best to turn from sin will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

Whether this is a fire and brimstone hell or some other form, he feels hell or the lack of entry to this kingdom is the less desirable outcome. He feels homosexuals are doomed to this outcome without turning from homosexuality.

quatchi		2012-05-20 12:30:21 PM

Only those who accept Christ as Lord and daily with the help of the Spirit do their best to turn from sin will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Ah, I was kinda wondering how often this guy had to struggle to suppress his latent homosexual urges.

"Daily", apparently the answer there.

Hope he figures it out one day.

s2s2s2		2012-05-20 12:30:22 PM

The Larch: You were the one who said that you believe that your Christian faith prohibits you from ridiculing Muslims. I dont know why you're now asking me if it is morally permissable for you to ridicule muslims. Why dont you go pray for the answer, or ask someone else in your church? I can't imagine why you think that a random person on the Internet can help you answer a question about your faith.

It's not my christian faith that does it, it's my desire to see love front and center. Love will make fun of you. It just won't come from a place of scorn. It is just as much the responsibility of the target of ridicule to be patient and forgiving.

smeegle		2012-05-20 12:30:23 PM

Kansas, what do you expect? Having said that, he has a right to spout off on his own FB page. But he obviously did not take into account the effect his words could have on students gay and straight. Irresponsible.

I wish people who leverage the Bible as justification to hate could see how they really come off.
Never happen, blinded by Jeebus.

s2s2s2		2012-05-20 12:31:13 PM

Vangor: I am not assigning any qualities to his deity he has not:

So you are letting him set the tone? Good move. He's wrong. Don't be wrong with him.

Lost Thought 00		2012-05-20 12:31:52 PM

I would not feel comfortable leaving my children in a room alone with him.

s2s2s2		2012-05-20 12:32:36 PM

The most misunderstood thing in all of this is what the true meaning of "sin" is.

hubiestubert		2012-05-20 12:33:02 PM

Sadly, this teacher forgot the words of one of the brighter notes in education.

The true teacher defends his pupils against his own personal influence. He inspires self-trust. He guides their eyes from himself to the spirit that quickens him. He will have no disciples. A noble artist, he has visions of excellence and revelations of beauty which he has neither impersonated in character nor embodied in words. His life and teachings are but studies for yet nobler ideals.
--Amos Bronson Alcott

Highway61Revisited		2012-05-20 12:34:32 PM

s2s2s2: The most misunderstood thing in all of this is what the true meaning of "sin" is.

So enlighten us.

Because the more rigid Christianists would say that you're the one with the misunderstanding of sin.

smeegle		2012-05-20 12:35:26 PM

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: t was Muslims who contributed much to mathematics like Algebra and Trigonometry, which was imported over to Europe 300 years later to Fibonnaci and the rest.

Without "zero" which they gave, there would be no higher math, no space flights etc etc.

Benevolent Misanthrope		2012-05-20 12:36:02 PM

Dinki:
i.huffpost.com

So deep in the closet the bell bottom jeans think he's been there forever.

Bears repeating. 5 gets you 10 that guy is spanking it to the most unspeakably deviant gay porn out there.

hubiestubert		2012-05-20 12:36:36 PM

Highway61Revisited: s2s2s2: The most misunderstood thing in all of this is what the true meaning of "sin" is.

So enlighten us.

Because the more rigid Christianists would say that you're the one with the misunderstanding of sin.

I prefer to go with Heinlein's interpretation.

"Sin lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense. (Hurting yourself is not sinful - just stupid)."

s2s2s2		2012-05-20 12:36:41 PM

Vangor: he feels hell or the lack of entry to this kingdom is the less desirable outcome. He feels homosexuals are doomed to this outcome without turning from homosexuality.

Sorry I skipped this part earlier. He is clearly wrong about the relationship to sin and access to a peaceful afterlife.
There are scenarios of judgement in the bible. The only people cast out are sodomites. Nearly 100% of christians are wrong about what sodomy is*.

*Sodom's sins were pride, gluttony, and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door.

Hmmm. no mention of same-sex love there, at all.

Vangor		2012-05-20 12:36:51 PM

s2s2s2: So you are letting him set the tone? Good move. He's wrong. Don't be wrong with him.

Wrong about what? He is the creator of his own bigoted little deity. I do not ascribe this deity to all other Christians, theists, etc.. You are doing exactly the thing which provides protection to those who shift blame from themselves to the faith by assuming any assault on his deity he calls God to be an assault on everyone else who calls their deity God.

Salt Lick Steady		2012-05-20 12:38:26 PM

s2s2s2: My wife(common law) and I have decided not to get legally married until gay people can.

If you have a common law wife, you're already legally married. ?

Dwight_Yeast		2012-05-20 12:40:29 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Bears repeating. 5 gets you 10 that guy is spanking it to the most unspeakably deviant gay porn out there.

But see, he's struggling with the lust in his heart and one day will be cured!

*snicker*

/Growing up gay in this society, all you really want is to be accepted as "normal". There are two ways to achieve this normalcy: pretend you ARE normal, and pray that your mask never slips, or work aggressively to change society. One is easy, one is hard, but in the long run, there's only one correct path.

Lost Thought 00		2012-05-20 12:40:32 PM

smeegle: Carlo Spicy-Wiener: t was Muslims who contributed much to mathematics like Algebra and Trigonometry, which was imported over to Europe 300 years later to Fibonnaci and the rest.

Without "zero" which they gave, there would be no higher math, no space flights etc etc.

Arguments like this drive me nuts. Knowledge is never created in isolation and kept bottled up until it can be shared, like technoligies in Civilization video games. Once something is known, it spreads. And rarely is anything thought of by one culture alone. Concepts of 0 were all over central asia, it's impossible to localize it to a single place or a single culture

s2s2s2		2012-05-20 12:41:52 PM

Highway61Revisited: So enlighten us.

Because the more rigid Christianists would say that you're the one with the misunderstanding of sin.

My understanding would be something like "a mistake nature". Our self-destructive ways. Overeating, war, bigotry, greed, and things that are generally bad for us and how we interact with the world around us(instead of understanding we are part of it). Thinking we can burn all the oil we want and the earth can take it, rather than understanding we should do all we can to make every aspect of our lives harmonious with everyone and everything around us. But the idea of black hat vs white hat has polluted that. We like drama. It isn't morally wrong for a lioness to kill a weakened baby antelope for the survival of her cubs, is it?

Dwight_Yeast		2012-05-20 12:42:35 PM

Salt Lick Steady: If you have a common law wife, you're already legally married. ?

Depends on where you live. My parent, who have lived together for 40 years, recently found out they were no longer considered married by their home state, as the law had changed.

s2s2s2		2012-05-20 12:42:42 PM

Vangor: Wrong about what? He is the creator of his own bigoted little deity. I do not ascribe this deity to all other Christians, theists, etc.. You are doing exactly the thing which provides protection to those who shift blame from themselves to the faith by assuming any assault on his deity he calls God to be an assault on everyone else who calls their deity God

I'm ok with this, and appreciate the nuance. It's almost delicious.

smeegle		2012-05-20 12:42:54 PM

Lost Thought 00: Concepts of 0 were all over central asia, it's impossible to localize it to a single place or a single culture

Sorry to drive you so "crazy", it's my understanding that the application of zero began in the Arab empire.
Anyway fark it we are off topic.

baka-san		2012-05-20 12:43:11 PM

Lost Thought 00: I would not feel comfortable leaving my children in a room alone with him.

Seconded, he looks like he would try something with one of them.

s2s2s2		2012-05-20 12:44:49 PM

Salt Lick Steady: If you have a common law wife, you're already legally married. ?

This is basically true. But if we went down to the JOP, and wanted to buy a license, and pay for a ceremony, I don't think they'd tell us they couldn't do it, because we are already legally married.

Salt Lick Steady		2012-05-20 12:45:16 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Salt Lick Steady: If you have a common law wife, you're already legally married. ?

Depends on where you live. My parent, who have lived together for 40 years, recently found out they were no longer considered married by their home state, as the law had changed.

If they already had a common law marriage, a change in state law abolishing it does not terminate the validity of their marriage.

Dwight_Yeast		2012-05-20 12:46:53 PM

smeegle: Lost Thought 00: Concepts of 0 were all over central asia, it's impossible to localize it to a single place or a single culture

Sorry to drive you so "crazy", it's my understanding that the application of zero began in the Arab empire.
Anyway fark it we are off topic.

They've traced it back further to particular region in India, where it shows up as a placeholder. The Arabs expanded the concept and transmitted it to Europe.

It should also be pointed out that most of the ancient mathematical works along with the works of Aristotle (which laid the foundation for modern science) were translated out of Arabic as the texts had no survived in Europe.

Vangor		2012-05-20 12:47:03 PM

s2s2s2: I'm ok with this, and appreciate the nuance.

I'll need clarification of what you are "ok" with. I think I know, but you are holding several discussions and seem to be holding a position of faith yourself which might color this.

Dwight_Yeast		2012-05-20 12:48:42 PM

Salt Lick Steady: If they already had a common law marriage, a change in state law abolishing it does not terminate the validity of their marriage.

I haven't looked into it, but they found that as they had never specifically announced their intentions to be married, they weren't considered married. No idea of the details, and let's just say my father is seriously weird and leave it at that.

keithgabryelski		2012-05-20 12:50:14 PM

s2s2s2:
*Sodom's sins were pride, gluttony, and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door.

Hmmm. no mention of same-sex love there, at all.

Aren't you missing a passage from Jude?

smeegle		2012-05-20 12:50:15 PM

Dwight_Yeast: They've traced it back further to particular region in India, where it shows up as a placeholder. The Arabs expanded the concept and transmitted it to Europe.

HA, I just read that myself (article in American Scientific. Had to go look it up.
Interesting.

thismomentinblackhistory		2012-05-20 12:51:40 PM

Mrtraveler01: s2s2s2: So,it's ok to start ridiculing Muslims for believing the same shiat, or do we still need to pretend they are just a precious, cultural treasure?

You can get down off of the cross now.

SNAP

Salt Lick Steady		2012-05-20 12:53:44 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Salt Lick Steady: If they already had a common law marriage, a change in state law abolishing it does not terminate the validity of their marriage.

I haven't looked into it, but they found that as they had never specifically announced their intentions to be married, they weren't considered married. No idea of the details, and let's just say my father is seriously weird and leave it at that.

Cool. But part of the reason I bring it up is that they might want to consider refiling their taxes...

Dwight_Yeast		2012-05-20 12:56:05 PM

smeegle: HA, I just read that myself (article in American Scientific. Had to go look it up.
Interesting.

I only found out about it recently in some documentary I was watching. The fact that it shows up in carved pillars in temples in India is pretty much rock-solid proof.

LoneWolf343		2012-05-20 12:57:34 PM

Carlo Spicy-Wiener: So, aside from priests who molest children, Televangelists who extort money from their "flock", and a nation-wide martyr complex, what have the Christians given us?

So, aside from priests who molest children, Televangelists who extort money from their "flock", and a nation-wide martyr complex, what have the Christians given us?

Big Bang theory
Genetics
Hospitals and medical science...

lennavan		2012-05-20 12:57:58 PM

s2s2s2: lennavan: I'm gonna go out on a wild crazy limb here and suggest the shiatty things done by other groups pale in comparison and magnitude to the things done in the name of religion. The world would be a significantly better place if we just eradicated religion entirely.

Unless you consider Stalin to have acted under the auspices of atheism as a religion, you are wrong. Plenty of atrocities committed at the hands of the non-religious. I'll even give you Hitler as a "christian" and he still killed fewer people than Stalin did. Russian genocide > German genocide. Besides, the Catholics were protecting pagan virgin worship, not actual christianity. Many of the victims of their evil were deemed guilty for reading the bible and realizing the Vatican was terribly wrong.

I was considering all of the events in the name of Christianity in sum. Or all of the events in the name of Islam in sum. And comparing to all of the events in sum in the name of any other group. That's my whole point, in the name of Christianity we have consistent and continued shiatty things done across the globe for centuries and centuries. You're comparing to a guy who was shiatty in a localized area for a few decades. You kinda missed the point.

SubBass49		2012-05-20 01:00:10 PM

TTLDNR...

But, as a liberal teacher that believes in ghey rights, I have to say, "LEAVE THE FARKING GUY ALONE" in regards to what he posts on his own facebook page. Didn't read the article, but I'm guessing he didn't go posting this on students' pages, right? Guy is entitled to his opinion, however despicable it might be, because we have freedom to think how we want to in America. Apparently some people disagree with this if you happen to be a teacher though. Slippery slope and I don't want to go there.

/this teacher believes marijuana should be legal, regulated, and taxed...should I get in trouble?

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