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(CNN)   First transgender beauty queen pageant contestant loses by a whisker   (cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, Miss Universe Canada  
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10559 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 May 2012 at 1:47 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-20 12:10:30 PM  
What do they do with the balls? I'd have mine bronzed. Given the choice, I'd have them bronzed.
 
2012-05-20 12:26:05 PM  
Not that she wasn't a hottie, or didn't deserve to win, but it's probably better that, this time, she didn't. Give the idea a little time to settle in with people. A few years from now, it'll be far more common to have transgendered people in contests of this sort. Then when a TG person wins, it'll be far less of a big deal, and far fewer haters will spew about it.
 
2012-05-20 12:35:55 PM  
I still dunno why these kinds of pageants are still held.

This is 2012, where women have an equal part in society; this aint 1955 where pregnant and in the kitchen was the norm.
 
2012-05-20 01:00:40 PM  
Give him another year or two. Surely the bigoted judges will be enlightened enough to award him as the winner.
 
2012-05-20 01:21:39 PM  
From some redlight:

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
-T. Durden

Gender is not determined by identity.

Every cell in one's body is either XX or XY -no surgery can change that, yet.
 
2012-05-20 01:24:45 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: From some redlight:

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
-T. Durden

Gender is not determined by identity.

Every cell in one's body is either XX or XY -no surgery can change that, yet.


Again? Seriously?

You getting butthurt doesn't change this woman's gender.

End of line.

Line ends here.
 
2012-05-20 01:41:38 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer:

Again? Seriously?

You getting butthurt doesn't change this woman's gender.

End of line.

Line ends here.


First of all derper... There is no butthurt.

If you want to declare yourself some grandiose thing -you are welcome to it.

It doesn't mean that it's true.

Gender is not defined by identity.
 
2012-05-20 01:52:36 PM  
She/he lost. Big deal. Not news.

NEEEEEXT!
 
2012-05-20 01:52:48 PM  
Can we use "sex" here instead of gender? It's more accurate. His sex is still male (XY). Her gender may be feminine. There is a difference, subtle though it may be.
 
2012-05-20 01:52:50 PM  

EnviroDude: Give him another year or two. Surely the bigoted judges will be enlightened enough to award him as the winner.


Maybe in that time you will be enlightened enough to refer to this person by their proper gender: her.
 
2012-05-20 01:55:01 PM  

ChubbyTiger: Can we use "sex" here instead of gender? It's more accurate. His sex is still male (XY). Her gender may be feminine. There is a difference, subtle though it may be.


Post surgery, her sex is female. Anatomically, hormonally, and most importantly emotionally, this person is a woman.

Hell, she's more femmy than I am, and I was born XX.
 
2012-05-20 01:55:45 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: From some redlight:

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
-T. Durden

Gender is not determined by identity.

Every cell in one's body is either XX or XY -no surgery can change that, yet.


Gender != Sex.
 
2012-05-20 01:55:57 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: From some redlight:

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
-T. Durden

Gender is not determined by identity.

Every cell in one's body is either XX or XY -no surgery can change that, yet.


Gender is determined by society that corresponds with the sex for that gender. Gender usually involves the brain so it match up with the sex, but sometimes it doesn't work that way. Some people are born XXY, they have an extra chromosome, so the might have a penis, but that extra X might make them feel female gender wise, and thus need to become a woman. There is also ton of different ways as well, hormone levels different, or having both sex organs can make someone go to a different gender/sex than what their chromosomes say. Plus you can't farking see a chromosome unless you do tests, so why is it a big deal when someone's gender doesn't match up their sex?
 
2012-05-20 01:57:49 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Herp derp


10/10 on your trolling in this thread.
 
2012-05-20 01:58:49 PM  
He's attractive but not Miss Universe beautiful
 
2012-05-20 01:59:22 PM  
The reason she lost is because when asked if she supported gay marriage, she said "Oh god no! That's just unnatural!!"
 
2012-05-20 02:00:03 PM  
I have to give it to Talackova. Before she came around, the social justice patrol was down with sexist, degrading beauty pageants. She enters and suddenly, they're okay with them.
 
2012-05-20 02:00:25 PM  

KiplingKat872: ChubbyTiger: Can we use "sex" here instead of gender? It's more accurate. His sex is still male (XY). Her gender may be feminine. There is a difference, subtle though it may be.

Post surgery, her sex is female. Anatomically, hormonally, and most importantly emotionally, this person is a woman.

Hell, she's more femmy than I am, and I was born XX.


Quitting the chew might be a good start for you.


/i keeeeed
 
2012-05-20 02:04:16 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: From some redlight:

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
-T. Durden

Gender is not determined by identity.

Every cell in one's body is either XX or XY -no surgery can change that, yet.


needs to be repeated.
 
2012-05-20 02:04:31 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: From some redlight:

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
-T. Durden

Gender is not determined by identity.

Every cell in one's body is either XX or XY -no surgery can change that, yet.


Link
 
2012-05-20 02:05:28 PM  

dahmers love zombie: Not that she wasn't a hottie, or didn't deserve to win, but it's probably better that, this time, she didn't. Give the idea a little time to settle in with people. A few years from now, it'll be far more common to have transgendered people in contests of this sort. Then when a TG person wins, it'll be far less of a big deal, and far fewer haters will spew about it.


I am pro LGBT rights, but there is some question as to why an individual who has paid thousands of dollars for surgery to specifically make her look like an attractive female should be winning prizes in what is basically a beauty contest.

If a non-transgendered woman had paid for years of plastic surgery, would she have been admitted or disqualified?

That said, http://www.radfem2012.com/participants.html
adFem 2012 is women only. We respect that discussion spaces are needed free from oppression and dis-empowerment, and we assert our right as women to organise a women only space. As Radical Feminists we recognise that patriarchy dominates personal and political spaces across the globe. In turn we ask that RadFem 2012 be respected as a space where women born women living as women are able to meet and share information in a peaceful and safe environment.

Radical Feminism: It's 2012 and they are still fighting the fight to keep women safe from the transgendered.
 
2012-05-20 02:06:09 PM  
blog.zap2it.com

FAP FAP FAPPITY FAP FAP
 
2012-05-20 02:07:13 PM  

ChubbyTiger: Can we use "sex" here instead of gender? It's more accurate. His sex is still male (XY). Her gender may be feminine. There is a difference, subtle though it may be.


Fun fact a child born with the XY chromosomes can be immune to testosterone and develop female characteristics including a vagina sans uterus and at puberty breasts. There can also be a child born with XX chromosomes who develops male characteristics including a penis and testes.

None of that matter though as gender is determined by brain structure. Errbody quit being such bass ackwards social conservatives.
 
2012-05-20 02:07:26 PM  
The crown went to Sahar Biniaz, an Indian-born actual woman, a Iranian-raised actress from Vancouver. Biniaz, 26, will represent Canada at the Miss Universe pageant in December, according to the Miss Universe Canada website.
 
2012-05-20 02:09:11 PM  

nyseattitude: KiplingKat872: ChubbyTiger: Can we use "sex" here instead of gender? It's more accurate. His sex is still male (XY). Her gender may be feminine. There is a difference, subtle though it may be.

Post surgery, her sex is female. Anatomically, hormonally, and most importantly emotionally, this person is a woman.

Hell, she's more femmy than I am, and I was born XX.

Quitting the chew might be a good start for you.


/i keeeeed


:P

;)

More the scifi reading, tevas, jeans, and fannels type than beauty pagents. And I'm o.k. with that. (Though I get irked when the media makes assumptions like "women don't like SciFi/Fantasy/Action/etc.) Which is why I'm o.k. with transgendered people. If you're comfortable with yourself, you don't find other people's identities threatening.
 
2012-05-20 02:09:14 PM  

RoyBatty: dahmers love zombie: Not that she wasn't a hottie, or didn't deserve to win, but it's probably better that, this time, she didn't. Give the idea a little time to settle in with people. A few years from now, it'll be far more common to have transgendered people in contests of this sort. Then when a TG person wins, it'll be far less of a big deal, and far fewer haters will spew about it.

I am pro LGBT rights, but there is some question as to why an individual who has paid thousands of dollars for surgery to specifically make her look like an attractive female should be winning prizes in what is basically a beauty contest.

If a non-transgendered woman had paid for years of plastic surgery, would she have been admitted or disqualified?

That said, http://www.radfem2012.com/participants.html
adFem 2012 is women only. We respect that discussion spaces are needed free from oppression and dis-empowerment, and we assert our right as women to organise a women only space. As Radical Feminists we recognise that patriarchy dominates personal and political spaces across the globe. In turn we ask that RadFem 2012 be respected as a space where women born women living as women are able to meet and share information in a peaceful and safe environment.

Radical Feminism: It's 2012 and they are still fighting the fight to keep women safe from the transgendered.


You do realize that hormone treatment can make a person born male to look like a female, if they constantly take hormones? The would only need surgery if they want to have vagina, and possibly breasts. They would not necessarily need surgery on the face to look like a woman, and a lot of women already do surgery to try to them look like a hotter woman already. I am sure there are a lot of women in beauty pagents that could of had more plastic surgery than a trans gender woman got done.
 
2012-05-20 02:09:27 PM  

demonfaerie: Because People in power are Stupid: From some redlight:

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
-T. Durden

Gender is not determined by identity.

Every cell in one's body is either XX or XY -no surgery can change that, yet.

Gender is determined by society that corresponds with the sex for that gender. Gender usually involves the brain so it match up with the sex, but sometimes it doesn't work that way. Some people are born XXY, they have an extra chromosome, so the might have a penis, but that extra X might make them feel female gender wise, and thus need to become a woman. There is also ton of different ways as well, hormone levels different, or having both sex organs can make someone go to a different gender/sex than what their chromosomes say. Plus you can't farking see a chromosome unless you do tests, so why is it a big deal when someone's gender doesn't match up their sex?


I've always felt lucky to never question my identity like that. I've always been a Tom boy. Growing up I wore boys clothes, cut my hair short, and would rather play in the mud than with barbies. But I've always felt like a girl. It's a subject that really pulls on my heartstrings though because individuals like in TFA never had that luxury. Brave individuals they are.
 
2012-05-20 02:09:43 PM  

cman: I still dunno why these kinds of pageants are still held.

This is 2012, where women have an equal part in society; this aint 1955 where pregnant and in the kitchen was the norm.



Because they are profitable? I'm pretty sure that sums up why any show of any kind is being put on. The more you know..
 
2012-05-20 02:10:38 PM  
So Talackova made into the top 12 out of a field of 60-odd. How does it feel to be one of those non-finalists? I should swoop in, I might have a chance with their lowered self esteem.
 
2012-05-20 02:12:27 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Because People in power are Stupid: From some redlight:

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
-T. Durden

Gender is not determined by identity.

Every cell in one's body is either XX or XY -no surgery can change that, yet.

Again? Seriously?

You getting butthurt doesn't change this woman's gender.

End of line.

Line ends here.


So then is gender something you are born with or is it a behavior?
 
2012-05-20 02:12:28 PM  

Mock26: Because People in power are Stupid: From some redlight:

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
-T. Durden

Gender is not determined by identity.

Every cell in one's body is either XX or XY -no surgery can change that, yet.

Gender != Sex.


This. I'm sure there will be a b-b-b-but it's a man, baby!

Gender is a range of characteristics of femininity and masculinity.
 
2012-05-20 02:13:50 PM  
I'm sorry, but there's still an inkling of man in that face. Good on you for doing whatever you want...but that's not a woman like the other women are women.

I'm not against it, I'm just saying we're being inclusive to the point of silliness. I fully support this person's right to do and identify as anything they want...but we're blurring lines uselessly. Of course, I'll surely be labelled a bigot for thinking someone born with a penis shouldn't be in a female beauty contest. Maybe a trans-everything pagent could be a solution?

All I'm saying is, as a redhead, I can't just put on blackface or a serious spray tan and enter an "Ebony Gentleman" beauty contest just because I "feel black".
 
2012-05-20 02:13:59 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Every cell in one's body is either XX or XY -no surgery can change that, yet.


Would like to disagree:
encrypted-tbn1.google.com
 
2012-05-20 02:14:48 PM  

Trance750: The My Little Pony Killer: Because People in power are Stupid: From some redlight:

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
-T. Durden

Gender is not determined by identity.

Every cell in one's body is either XX or XY -no surgery can change that, yet.

Again? Seriously?

You getting butthurt doesn't change this woman's gender.

End of line.

Line ends here.

So then is gender something you are born with or is it a behavior?


Gender roles are based from society that coincides with the sex of the person. Gender is born in the brain, and society kind of molds it for the sex of that gender. Just sometimes gender and sex don't mesh up 100% perfect.
 
2012-05-20 02:16:09 PM  

kisseswookies: demonfaerie: Because People in power are Stupid: From some redlight:

Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
-T. Durden

Gender is not determined by identity.

Every cell in one's body is either XX or XY -no surgery can change that, yet.

Gender is determined by society that corresponds with the sex for that gender. Gender usually involves the brain so it match up with the sex, but sometimes it doesn't work that way. Some people are born XXY, they have an extra chromosome, so the might have a penis, but that extra X might make them feel female gender wise, and thus need to become a woman. There is also ton of different ways as well, hormone levels different, or having both sex organs can make someone go to a different gender/sex than what their chromosomes say. Plus you can't farking see a chromosome unless you do tests, so why is it a big deal when someone's gender doesn't match up their sex?

I've always felt lucky to never question my identity like that. I've always been a Tom boy. Growing up I wore boys clothes, cut my hair short, and would rather play in the mud than with barbies. But I've always felt like a girl. It's a subject that really pulls on my heartstrings though because individuals like in TFA never had that luxury. Brave individuals they are.


What is it about playing in mud that you find enjoyable? Can't say that I ever played in mud. On account of it's mud.
 
2012-05-20 02:16:16 PM  

KiplingKat872: nyseattitude: KiplingKat872: ChubbyTiger: Can we use "sex" here instead of gender? It's more accurate. His sex is still male (XY). Her gender may be feminine. There is a difference, subtle though it may be.

Post surgery, her sex is female. Anatomically, hormonally, and most importantly emotionally, this person is a woman.

Hell, she's more femmy than I am, and I was born XX.

Quitting the chew might be a good start for you.


/i keeeeed

:P

;)

More the scifi reading, tevas, jeans, and fannels type than beauty pagents. And I'm o.k. with that. (Though I get irked when the media makes assumptions like "women don't like SciFi/Fantasy/Action/etc.) Which is why I'm o.k. with transgendered people. If you're comfortable with yourself, you don't find other people's identities threatening.


lol, I'm about to go outside to read The Map of Time in my tevas. I love tevas, I wear them about nine months out of the year.
 
2012-05-20 02:16:44 PM  
Genital Lack Of A.
 
2012-05-20 02:17:06 PM  

JasonOfOrillia: So Talackova made into the top 12 out of a field of 60-odd. How does it feel to be one of those non-finalists? I should swoop in, I might have a chance with their lowered self esteem.


I honestly think (as attractive as this person is) that they were possibly voted in for political reasons. Had they not voted them in, there would have been a media firestorm, especially considering the hooplah a few months prior.
 
2012-05-20 02:18:15 PM  
Cue the pics of that fella who got all tattooey and implanty etc. to look like a tiger. He honestly thinks he's a tiger.

Is he a tiger?

Also, I know a guy who got this surgery. Nice guy too, fun to hang around with and chat over a beer. The first clue was emotional stability and rationality.

Now, the question: at what point does he transform into a woman? Is it when he gets a feminine hairstyle and starts to wear makeup? When he starts wearing women's clothes? At the hormone therapy? One of the several surgeries?

Summary: I've got nothing against these people or anybody that does something some other people might think is irrational, as long as they aren't interfering with or harming anyone else. And while it's true that I can't understand it, really that's just one more in the long and complicated list of things I don't understand. And like I say, nice guy whom I enjoy spending time with, so I do, and that should be all that matters.

Not really a troll effort, just sayin'...
 
2012-05-20 02:18:16 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: The crown went to Sahar Biniaz, an Indian-born actual woman, a Iranian-raised actress from Vancouver. Biniaz, 26, will represent Canada at the Miss Universe pageant in December, according to the Miss Universe Canada website.


She was in Smallville, Sanctuary and the Blade series. She had the geek vote down. I wonder if any of the judges were fans.
 
2012-05-20 02:20:18 PM  

Patterson: I'm sorry, but there's still an inkling of man in that face. Good on you for doing whatever you want...but that's not a woman like the other women are women.

I'm not against it, I'm just saying we're being inclusive to the point of silliness. I fully support this person's right to do and identify as anything they want...but we're blurring lines uselessly. Of course, I'll surely be labelled a bigot for thinking someone born with a penis shouldn't be in a female beauty contest. Maybe a trans-everything pagent could be a solution?

All I'm saying is, as a redhead, I can't just put on blackface or a serious spray tan and enter an "Ebony Gentleman" beauty contest just because I "feel black".


She doesn't have the penis anymore, so what reason do you have to exclude her?

And excluding people for arbitrary reasons (and its not like these girls in pagents are being judged by their DNA sequence), if the definition of descrimination.

I'm a female red head, so I'm not going to speak to the ethnic crossovers, but to compare gender reasdignment to wearing blackface is incredibly insulting.
 
2012-05-20 02:20:36 PM  

Slackfumasta: FAP FAP FAPPITY FAP FAP


Ann Coulter arms.
 
2012-05-20 02:22:14 PM  

Patterson: I'm sorry, but there's still an inkling of man in that face. Good on you for doing whatever you want...but that's not a woman like the other women are women.

I'm not against it, I'm just saying we're being inclusive to the point of silliness. I fully support this person's right to do and identify as anything they want...but we're blurring lines uselessly. Of course, I'll surely be labelled a bigot for thinking someone born with a penis shouldn't be in a female beauty contest. Maybe a trans-everything pagent could be a solution?

All I'm saying is, as a redhead, I can't just put on blackface or a serious spray tan and enter an "Ebony Gentleman" beauty contest just because I "feel black".


That's not how Gender Identity works, but you are entitled to your opinion though. However if you actually new how Gender Identity, and how transgendered people feel, you would probably change your mind. A lot of people who are transgendered know at a very very young age of what gender they are, even if it doesn't match up with their sex. Gender starts in the brain to help society find gender roles for sex, but sometimes the brain doesn't mesh up with the sex. There are a lot of reasons for it, but does that make it wrong to be something you really are? Gender, and race are different. I have never met anyone that was white, and felt the need to have black skin. That seems like a wrong analogy to use.
 
2012-05-20 02:23:23 PM  

RammaLamma: Cue the pics of that fella who got all tattooey and implanty etc. to look like a tiger. He honestly thinks he's a tiger.

Is he a tiger?

Also, I know a guy who got this surgery. Nice guy too, fun to hang around with and chat over a beer. The first clue was emotional stability and rationality.

Now, the question: at what point does he transform into a woman? Is it when he gets a feminine hairstyle and starts to wear makeup? When he starts wearing women's clothes? At the hormone therapy? One of the several surgeries?

Summary: I've got nothing against these people or anybody that does something some other people might think is irrational, as long as they aren't interfering with or harming anyone else. And while it's true that I can't understand it, really that's just one more in the long and complicated list of things I don't understand. And like I say, nice guy whom I enjoy spending time with, so I do, and that should be all that matters.

Not really a troll effort, just sayin'...


Most of these people feel like they were born the wrong gender. The body just need help to get to the same place their brain already is.
 
2012-05-20 02:23:45 PM  

Patterson: I'm sorry, but there's still an inkling of man in that face. Good on you for doing whatever you want...but that's not a woman like the other women are women.

I'm not against it, I'm just saying we're being inclusive to the point of silliness. I fully support this person's right to do and identify as anything they want...but we're blurring lines uselessly. Of course, I'll surely be labelled a bigot for thinking someone born with a penis shouldn't be in a female beauty contest. Maybe a trans-everything pagent could be a solution?

All I'm saying is, as a redhead, I can't just put on blackface or a serious spray tan and enter an "Ebony Gentleman" beauty contest just because I "feel black".


This is sort of like how I feel. Taking it a step further, when I bury my Johnson in a woman, I don't want to sink it in what amounts to an open wound.
 
2012-05-20 02:24:18 PM  

KiplingKat872: More the scifi reading, tevas, jeans, and fannels type than beauty pagents.


How YOU doin'?

If you're comfortable with yourself, you don't find other people's identities threatening.

THIS.

I usually point this out when someone around me goes off on a homophobic screed.
 
2012-05-20 02:25:09 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Every cell in one's body is either XX or XY


Chromosomal sex, gender identity, genitalia, and sexual orientation are closely linked traits but not a singular trait, and changes from the common set does not appear to be dangerous to the development of the organism (except psychologically where society imposes gender norms and does so as though binary). Besides, what you said is wrong as I believe someone else indicated.
 
2012-05-20 02:25:20 PM  
Those boobs look fake.
 
2012-05-20 02:26:18 PM  

KiplingKat872: Of course, I'll surely be labelled a bigot for thinking someone born with a penis shouldn't be in a female beauty contest.


Just like gay marriage, it doesn't affect you at all, so get over it.
 
2012-05-20 02:26:51 PM  

Patterson: I'm sorry, but there's still an inkling of man in that face. Good on you for doing whatever you want...but that's not a woman like the other women are women.

I'm not against it, I'm just saying we're being inclusive to the point of silliness. I fully support this person's right to do and identify as anything they want...but we're blurring lines uselessly. Of course, I'll surely be labelled a bigot for thinking someone born with a penis shouldn't be in a female beauty contest. Maybe a trans-everything pagent could be a solution?

All I'm saying is, as a redhead, I can't just put on blackface or a serious spray tan and enter an "Ebony Gentleman" beauty contest just because I "feel black".


^^^^^^^^^

/exceptions made for Native America/Canada, where it's okay to do that?
 
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