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(Computerworld)   "Apple's secret plan to kill the cash register." They're going to design one with only one button?   (computerworld.com ) divider line 74
    More: Strange, cash registers  
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3551 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 May 2012 at 9:53 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-19 08:38:53 PM  
Apple died with Jobs.

It's just a wait for their body to stop twitching.
 
2012-05-19 08:44:00 PM  
The POS market is filled with overpriced, unreliable, non-portable, non-serviceable electronic crap 20 years behind the modern world. They seem to have stopped at the "hey, we can scan stuff now!" phase.

The only technology market sector further behind is (arguably) the front-end EHR market. The iPad and Android are coming for both of them.
 
wee
2012-05-19 09:08:25 PM  
An internet dollar says that only people with an iDevice can buy things in this bold, new world they've envisioned.

Apple's as bad as Sony when it comes to making things proprietary...
 
2012-05-19 09:56:59 PM  
I keep trying to open the damn thing but I can't find the eject button.

/just realized half of Fark won't understand the joke
//haz a sad
 
2012-05-19 09:57:38 PM  

Babwa Wawa: The POS market is filled with overpriced, unreliable, non-portable, non-serviceable electronic crap 20 years behind the modern world. They seem to have stopped at the "hey, we can scan stuff now!" phase.

The only technology market sector further behind is (arguably) the front-end EHR market. The iPad and Android are coming for both of them.


Yup. I know a lot of people that work on side selling craft stuff or are their own distributors for creative content. After I show them my Square reader (and tell them it's free) they look at me like I am a genie. Before that their options are cash and check (who carries those these days) or shelling out for an expensive and unreliable credit card swiper that charges a yearly fee on top of per transaction fees.

Oddly enough, my roommate today was at a convention looking for artists to hire. He found one and paid a percentage down for a contract using a Square reader. This shiat is catching on.
 
kab
2012-05-19 10:02:51 PM  
"If a Bluetooth 4.0-based Apple iWallet is a success, it could be the beginning of the end for the venerable cash register."

Yes, I'm sure that no longer accepting cash is going to be a savvy move for businesses.
 
2012-05-19 10:05:32 PM  
one button? 2001 called, etc.

/apple mice have ZERO buttons now!
 
2012-05-19 10:05:54 PM  
Sadly, I think that nearly every Apple product in the world could disappear, and the result would be that middle class English speaking people would lack entertainment and very little excellent graphic design would be done.
 
2012-05-19 10:06:34 PM  

wee: An internet dollar says that only people with an iDevice can buy things in this bold, new world they've envisioned.

Apple's as bad as Sony when it comes to making things proprietary...


Uh, third parties are writing the POS software for the iOS devices. Some of it looks really nice. Your comment makes no sense.
 
2012-05-19 10:08:42 PM  

wee: An internet dollar says that only people with an iDevice can buy things in this bold, new world they've envisioned.

Apple's as bad as Sony when it comes to making things proprietary...


Wouldn't agree with that. Apple wants the platform. The application is up for grabs, but Apple will take its cut.

Sony's all about owning the whole stack. Which means they're vulnerable to competition at all levels.
 
2012-05-19 10:11:47 PM  
One notable exception is your local Apple Store. There are no cash registers. If you want to buy something, you flag down some kid wearing a brightly colored T-shirt and hand over your credit card. The kid scans the item's bar code with a specially outfitted iPhone or iPad, swipes your credit card and emails you the receipt. The transaction can happen anywhere in the store.

1) Buy an iPad, bar-code scanner, and credit card reader
2) Buy a pair of khakis and a blue Apple T-shirt
3) Hang out at Apple stores and wait for people to hand you their credit card
 
2012-05-19 10:21:00 PM  
You know, it's cool for an apple store. I've used it many times like that, and hell, I don't even have to hand them my credit card I can just pay with my apple ID........ but this shiat isn't going to work for Walmart. No farking way.

Still, even if it doesn't work for all places, I'm sure it would work for many.
 
2012-05-19 10:26:23 PM  
I wonder what would happen if somebody tried to pay cash for product in an Apple store.
 
2012-05-19 10:26:36 PM  
Why are these things valued?
 
2012-05-19 10:27:29 PM  

BizarreMan: I wonder what would happen if somebody tried to pay cash for product in an Apple store.


You'd go to jail.
 
2012-05-19 10:31:04 PM  

Babwa Wawa: The POS market is filled with overpriced, unreliable, non-portable, non-serviceable electronic crap 20 years behind the modern world. They seem to have stopped at the "hey, we can scan stuff now!" phase.

The only technology market sector further behind is (arguably) the front-end EHR market. The iPad and Android are coming for both of them.


I have a client installing an iPad based POS system at his restaurants that is easy to use, cheaper and does as much as any regular POS system.
 
2012-05-19 10:36:23 PM  
Think I will stick with cash and debit
 
2012-05-19 10:46:08 PM  

BizarreMan: I wonder what would happen if somebody tried to pay cash for product in an Apple store.


http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/7_on_your_side&id=7447 03 7

"(May 17, 2010) According to an ABC 7 News report (video after the break), Diane Campbell, who is on a fixed income, saved for months to get the $600 she needed to buy an iPad. When she entered the Silicon Valley Apple Store with cash in hand, a clerk quickly informed Campbell that she couldn't use the cash for her purchase.

UPDATE (5/19/2010): Apple has reversed its no-cash policy following our report.

Johnson said our story triggered a company-wide policy change. As of today, anyone can pay for an iPad with cash as long as they set up their Apple account at the store. Apple accounts are needed for the iPad anyway, so that is not putting anyone out. "
 
2012-05-19 10:54:11 PM  
You're never going to "kill" the cash register as long as there is cash. Look at the farking name. "Cash Register" something that accounts for cash. So long as there is still paper and coin money, there has to be a device that accepts and stores is. Whether that's operated by a person, who knows. We can't really get rid of cash because electronic payments are still fairly insecure and vulnerable to things like power outages. As far as using portable scanners and such, that's fine for the Apple Store, but what about for things like produce and weighed groceries?
 
2012-05-19 11:09:06 PM  
It would be awesome at the dollar store
 
2012-05-19 11:34:28 PM  

StopLurkListen:
UPDATE (5/19/2010): As of today, anyone can pay for an iPad with cash as long as they set up their Apple account at the store. Apple accounts are needed for the iPad anyway, so that is not putting anyone out. "


Unless the purchase is a gift for somebody else.
 
2012-05-20 12:05:42 AM  
iPads last 3 years and you can't replace the battery. Krunky clunky cash registers can last a lot longer and don't have batteries that won't hold charge after a certain number of charge cycles.

Also - given the prevalance of malware on Android, would you really trust the platform as a substitute wallet for your day-to-day financial transactions?

Centralizing your identity and payment in a platform that's as secure as Windows 95 will get your identity stolen faster than a fat bloke can eat a deep fried donut.
 
2012-05-20 12:32:10 AM  
You would have to be a complete moron to think that this will work.

I can cover a 50,000 sf store with three clerks at check out lines, monitored by security cameras and in full sight of the store manager.

I know that whatever is in the cart will be processed in an area where the customer has limited ability to put anything else in the cart.

The last farking thing I want is fifty employees wandering the store dispensing receipts to people who can still load a ham or television or pack of printer ink into the cart.

The second last thing I want is a bunch of employees with cash in a belt bag making change while they hold an ipad under their arm.

The third last thing I want is for an employee to tell someone.....sorry I cant take any cash, but I can let you pay my Ipad.
 
2012-05-20 12:33:49 AM  
I am not an expert on PCI/PA-DSS Compliance, and have probably mis-interpreted something...

While I am quite certain that PA-DSS compliant applications could be designed quite easily for the iPad, I am highly skeptical that a practical implementation would permit a PCI-DSS-compliant environment... any insight? Namely, the credit card data would either be transmitted wirelessly for real-time processing (non-compliant), require encrypted temporary card storage and lack real-time processing (impractical), or require complete separation from other intra-networks in the retail facility (impractical). any insight is appreciated...?
 
2012-05-20 12:34:04 AM  

narkor: iPads last 3 years and you can't replace the battery.


Yes you can.

narkor: Krunky clunky cash registers can last a lot longer and don't have batteries that won't hold charge after a certain number of charge cycles


That's a lot of consolation when the register is essentially down for the day and the manufacturer or whoever holds the support contract isn't answering the phone because it's a Saturday.
 
2012-05-20 12:38:51 AM  
I only use cash for everything. Because I'm bad at saving my money if it's on a card and I'm paranoid about having my money on a plastic thing that anyone can use.
fark using cards and fark Apple for thinking that Cash is going away. One blackout/telephone outage or a virus and suddenly the iPad register is as useful as a blanket fort in a Cyclone.
 
2012-05-20 12:46:23 AM  

Actor_au: One blackout/telephone outage or a virus and suddenly the iPad register is as useful as a blanket fort in a Cyclone.


You realize in the event of said failures credit cards can still be used, right? Once upon a time the internet didn't exist and stores didn't have the ability to do instant verification. The clerk would write the information of the credit card down. If they were a well prepared retailer, they used one of these:

blog.nabancard.com
 
2012-05-20 01:09:53 AM  

MightyPez: Actor_au: One blackout/telephone outage or a virus and suddenly the iPad register is as useful as a blanket fort in a Cyclone.

You realize in the event of said failures credit cards can still be used, right? Once upon a time the internet didn't exist and stores didn't have the ability to do instant verification. The clerk would write the information of the credit card down. If they were a well prepared retailer, they used one of these:

[blog.nabancard.com image 480x360]


Do you think Apple has one of them in every store? And that Staff know how to use it? We're pushing the limits of the term Genius already with those guys.
 
2012-05-20 01:12:00 AM  

Actor_au: Do you think Apple has one of them in every store? And that Staff know how to use it? We're pushing the limits of the term Genius already with those guys.


A zip zap specifically? I doubt it. But I'm sure even the simplest of clerks are able to use a pen and paper to write down credit card information as well as a picture ID and relevant info. This is like 2nd day of retail training stuff.
 
2012-05-20 01:16:15 AM  

MightyPez: Actor_au: Do you think Apple has one of them in every store? And that Staff know how to use it? We're pushing the limits of the term Genius already with those guys.

A zip zap specifically? I doubt it. But I'm sure even the simplest of clerks are able to use a pen and paper to write down credit card information as well as a picture ID and relevant info. This is like 2nd day of retail training stuff.


Probably easier to take a photo with the iPad to be honest than writing it all down. But then you've probably got legal issues of using someone elses credit card, I'm sure someone at Apple has hopefully thought about this and implemented a work-around. Or made an App for it.
My main point is that Cash shouldn't be taken out of the retail sector.
 
2012-05-20 01:22:55 AM  
Um, not every store is an Apple store. There's no way in hell that Apple's approach will work at a grocery store, especially before Thanksgiving or the Super Bowl, or at any B&M retail operation during the month of December. And not everybody has a credit card. And most people want their shiat bagged, and they may want gift receipts.

How many SKUs does an Apple store have? 500 at most?
 
2012-05-20 01:23:31 AM  

MightyPez: Actor_au: One blackout/telephone outage or a virus and suddenly the iPad register is as useful as a blanket fort in a Cyclone.

You realize in the event of said failures credit cards can still be used, right? Once upon a time the internet didn't exist and stores didn't have the ability to do instant verification. The clerk would write the information of the credit card down. If they were a well prepared retailer, they used one of these:

[blog.nabancard.com image 480x360]


Yeah those are awesome for stolen credit cards.

archichris:
You would have to be a complete moron to think that this will work.

I can cover a 50,000 sf store with three clerks at check out lines, monitored by security cameras and in full sight of the store manager.

I know that whatever is in the cart will be processed in an area where the customer has limited ability to put anything else in the cart.

The last farking thing I want is fifty employees wandering the store dispensing receipts to people who can still load a ham or television or pack of printer ink into the cart.

The second last thing I want is a bunch of employees with cash in a belt bag making change while they hold an ipad under their arm.

The third last thing I want is for an employee to tell someone.....sorry I cant take any cash, but I can let you pay my Ipad.


I forgot to add that cash registers can last for 15-20 years. You would be lucky to get 12 months out of a consumer good like an iPad in a commercial setting.
 
2012-05-20 01:29:07 AM  

MightyPez: Actor_au: Do you think Apple has one of them in every store? And that Staff know how to use it? We're pushing the limits of the term Genius already with those guys.

A zip zap specifically? I doubt it. But I'm sure even the simplest of clerks are able to use a pen and paper to write down credit card information as well as a picture ID and relevant info. This is like 2nd day of retail training stuff.


You know how I know you've never supervised or done any retail work? But seriously, cash isn't going anywhere, and any store, no matter how high-tech they may be, have a closet somewhere with a box of blank carbon-copy charge slips and a zip zap. I've worked in stores during outages, and no retailer in their right mind would turn away sales because there aren't any lights. That's what calculators are for.
 
2012-05-20 01:29:38 AM  

archichris: MightyPez: Actor_au: One blackout/telephone outage or a virus and suddenly the iPad register is as useful as a blanket fort in a Cyclone.

You realize in the event of said failures credit cards can still be used, right? Once upon a time the internet didn't exist and stores didn't have the ability to do instant verification. The clerk would write the information of the credit card down. If they were a well prepared retailer, they used one of these:

[blog.nabancard.com image 480x360]

Yeah those are awesome for stolen credit cards.

archichris: You would have to be a complete moron to think that this will work.

I can cover a 50,000 sf store with three clerks at check out lines, monitored by security cameras and in full sight of the store manager.

I know that whatever is in the cart will be processed in an area where the customer has limited ability to put anything else in the cart.

The last farking thing I want is fifty employees wandering the store dispensing receipts to people who can still load a ham or television or pack of printer ink into the cart.

The second last thing I want is a bunch of employees with cash in a belt bag making change while they hold an ipad under their arm.

The third last thing I want is for an employee to tell someone.....sorry I cant take any cash, but I can let you pay my Ipad.

I forgot to add that cash registers can last for 15-20 years. You would be lucky to get 12 months out of a consumer good like an iPad in a commercial setting.


I should add that I have seen this work very well at proprietor owned and operated businesses, so far just kiosk type stores in malls and outdoor markets. But large stores....no chance in hell.
 
2012-05-20 01:31:11 AM  

archichris: Yeah those are awesome for stolen credit cards.


And? Fraud happens everyday in retail. People write bad checks, someone tries to pass off a few bad 20's, and credit cards could be fraudulent.

Those things haven't stopped retailers from doing business. They just have to take more precautions. If instant verification isn't available, such as for checks and credit cards, they will ask for a photo ID and copy down personal information.

Has nobody shopped on this site before the year 2000? Hell, I just had to provide an ID when I wrote a check at the DMV last month.

Actor_au: Probably easier to take a photo with the iPad to be honest than writing it all down. But then you've probably got legal issues of using someone elses credit card, I'm sure someone at Apple has hopefully thought about this and implemented a work-around. Or made an App for it.
My main point is that Cash shouldn't be taken out of the retail sector.



I can't speak to Apple personally, but I'm sure they have several redundant systems in their stores to cover point(s) of failure.
 
2012-05-20 01:33:00 AM  

Fark It: You know how I know you've never supervised or done any retail work? But seriously, cash isn't going anywhere, and any store, no matter how high-tech they may be, have a closet somewhere with a box of blank carbon-copy charge slips and a zip zap. I've worked in stores during outages, and no retailer in their right mind would turn away sales because there aren't any lights. That's what calculators are for.


I don't think I ever claimed cash was going anywhere.
 
2012-05-20 01:43:35 AM  

narkor: iPads last 3 years and you can't replace the battery. Krunky clunky cash registers can last a lot longer and don't have batteries that won't hold charge after a certain number of charge cycles.

Also - given the prevalance of malware on Android, would you really trust the platform as a substitute wallet for your day-to-day financial transactions?

Centralizing your identity and payment in a platform that's as secure as Windows 95 will get your identity stolen faster than a fat bloke can eat a deep fried donut.


Nope, not in the least. I prefer my standardized physical payment security dongle (You know, a credit card?). It has specific security features and interlocks at a bunch of levels to keep stupid shiat from happening.

Somehow I doubt the apple way will have any.

But honestly, if this becomes a 'thing' that's big enough for people to start scamming it, at least it would take pressure off sane people, since it would distract the thieves and scammers a bit.

/3 credit cards in a year
//bank can't keep its credit processing centers secure for shiat
///at least they notify me
 
2012-05-20 01:51:25 AM  
I bought my new iPad in cash at the Apple store, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies...
 
2012-05-20 02:14:51 AM  
Why the fark is there even an Apple store?

There should be an ipad tax taken out directly from your payroll. As long as you have a job and depending on your class rating you get certain Apple products sent to you automatically.

This is real simple, people. I don't understand why you guys have to make this shiat so goddamn difficult.
 
2012-05-20 03:52:07 AM  
With the herp-a-derp in here, it's like a politics thread. The iHaters are as irrational and brainwashed as the worst Tea Party half-wits.
 
2012-05-20 04:03:02 AM  
Am I the only one who hates the Apple store system and the damn store itself?

Its always a farking zoo inside, if I want to buy something I have to find some employee and go through this whole nightmare of waiting and flailing and talking just to get out. Just say "GO HERE" and I will go there then leave.

Heaven forbid you need service then you get to tell someone that you are there (even with an appointment) then they describe you onto their magic iPads then I can wander the store because there is no line or waiting area. Or Chairs. I just get to be crammed up against 200 hundred other customers all running around and I feel like I'm in the way for 20 minutes.

Queues and centralized service are stupid when you can have people just going everywhere.
 
2012-05-20 04:20:38 AM  

taurusowner: You're never going to "kill" the cash register as long as there is cash. Look at the farking name. "Cash Register" something that accounts for cash. So long as there is still paper and coin money, there has to be a device that accepts and stores is. Whether that's operated by a person, who knows. We can't really get rid of cash because electronic payments are still fairly insecure and vulnerable to things like power outages. As far as using portable scanners and such, that's fine for the Apple Store, but what about for things like produce and weighed groceries?


Yes, but you can change how they run for a lot of businesses. The rare cash transaction can be handled at a secure cash drawer while the bulk of the credit/debit transactions can be handled by the roving checkout people. If you buy an item with cash at an Apple store they ring you out on the iPad, and then take the cash to the back where the drawer is, return with your change. Your receipt is emailed to you either way.

BTW, that woman with the iPad? It was just because they were brand new and trying to be careful about the export market - something Apple was worried about re: getting approval to sell in other countries. The situation did lead them to change policy - after they were assured by those places (China and India being the big ones) that the import market wouldn't lead to them being rejected.

A whole lot of places can benefit from this. They're a lot cheaper. A dumb cash register is over 100$. All these ones are are overblown adding machines with a cash drawer. One with scanning, item storage, ect is over 200 and can't even do credit cards. An iPod Touch with a Square is under 300$, and versions can be set to handle cash and credit transactions, even integrate with QuickBooks and other accounting an IM software. That's an incredible savings and extremely cheap for that kind of flexibly. Add in that the typical cost of a swipe machine can be very expensive on top of a per-card charge.

Is it for Walmart on Black Friday? no. But for your Mall Kiosk? For your low-volume store? For your home business or your repair shop? Hell, I know people who can take credit cards at flea markets and other outdoor locations now. It's an incredible step up from manual processing and expensive leased swipe machines.

Just because it doesn't serve everyone's needs doesn't mean it isn't a useful tool for a lot of people.
 
2012-05-20 04:21:05 AM  

Babwa Wawa: The POS market is filled with overpriced, unreliable, non-portable, non-serviceable electronic crap 20 years behind the modern world. They seem to have stopped at the "hey, we can scan stuff now!" phase.


It also tends to feature far more shonky bespoke blobs of code than anyone on the other side of the till probably realises. Just because right now you need X,Y,Z precautions doesn't mean you did 5 - 10 years ago.

I have seen an EPOS system that used a .txt file for scratch space during transactions so it could dump the card number (passed through a keyboard based scanner in to the KBBuffer) and move on. A USB (or in this case PS/2) key logger dongle jammed in the kiosk would of netted you a fortune as would a small script to concat that scratch file in to another one parked somewhere else on the HDD. The staff would of been completely oblivious to a field engineer adding such a widget or change just so long as their tills kept working.

Then there was the 'secure' cash drawers from a certain maker that'd fire if you slammed the lid 'just right'.
 
2012-05-20 06:25:10 AM  

nacho cheese sauce: I am not an expert on PCI/PA-DSS Compliance, and have probably mis-interpreted something...

While I am quite certain that PA-DSS compliant applications could be designed quite easily for the iPad, I am highly skeptical that a practical implementation would permit a PCI-DSS-compliant environment... any insight? Namely, the credit card data would either be transmitted wirelessly for real-time processing (non-compliant), require encrypted temporary card storage and lack real-time processing (impractical), or require complete separation from other intra-networks in the retail facility (impractical). any insight is appreciated...?


The link provides some idea where the industry is going with NFC and PCI compliance.

http://blogs.rsa.com/williams/what-ab out-pci-dss-for-mobile-payments/

In a nutshell the credit card companies created and pushed PCI compliance and the same credit card companies are pushing NFC, so it's going to happen. Not sure how I feel about paying my phone company for what ever I charge...

Speaking as an IT guy working for for a Convenience store chain, not sure how feasible something like this is. Cash still makes up a good 40% of our transactions. However, I'm all for a little competition with the current POS market. Current POS development is stuck 10 years behind (or worse) and there is little innovation coming from them.
 
2012-05-20 08:32:10 AM  
You might be able to do this with a small boutique shop like an Apple store, but you'll never replace cash registers, or more precisely checkout lines, at grocery stores or Wal-mart type stores. That's frigging ignorant.
 
2012-05-20 08:40:59 AM  

taurusowner: You're never going to "kill" the cash register as long as there is cash. Look at the farking name. "Cash Register" something that accounts for cash. So long as there is still paper and coin money, there has to be a device that accepts and stores is. Whether that's operated by a person, who knows. We can't really get rid of cash because electronic payments are still fairly insecure and vulnerable to things like power outages. As far as using portable scanners and such, that's fine for the Apple Store, but what about for things like produce and weighed groceries?


Ever been to a carnival? All-cash business, no cash register.
 
2012-05-20 08:49:15 AM  

bingethinker: With the herp-a-derp in here, it's like a politics thread. The iHaters are as irrational and brainwashed as the worst Tea Party half-wits.


You should see how bizarre the argument appears to a total outsider. Most people, i think, are technological clods, like me - and to us, gadgets that do the same things usually seem pretty much the same, as do the different collections of 1s and 0s that run the gadgets.
The sheer passion and personal investment on the part of the attackers/defenders of some gadget or other is just baffling from my perspective. Most of this fancy crap works amazingly well, actually, and I've never had a whole lot of trouble using whatever has fallen under my hand - and it often seems to me that the hates and disatisfactions that a lot of technophiles seem to have for one gadget or another are largely manufactured.
 
2012-05-20 09:42:29 AM  

doglover: The propaganda machine died with Jobs.


FTFY

Steve would have made this sound like a revolution, and all the apple enthusiasts would be begging for it.
 
2012-05-20 09:53:25 AM  

kab: "If a Bluetooth 4.0-based Apple iWallet is a success, it could be the beginning of the end for the venerable cash register."

Yes, I'm sure that no longer accepting cash is going to be a savvy move for businesses.


Cash is incredibly inefficient for retail businesses.

Think about it, cash can get stolen either by robbery or employee malfeasance, you can lose cash. Cash takes longer to complete a transaction. Take the money, count the money, count the change, give the change to the customer, the customer counts the change.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-05-20 09:55:34 AM  
I tried to buy at an Apple store with cash or a check. The roaming droid threw an exception and sent me to the desk in back. There was no way to transfer my incomplete purchase from roaming device to fixed money-accepting device. They had to start over. Fortunately I didn't have many items.
 
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