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(LA Times)   Average cost of health care for a family of four now at $20,000 a year. Of course, if anyone actually gets sick the cost goes up a lot more   (latimes.com) divider line 38
    More: Scary, average cost, heaths, out-of-pocket expenses, paints  
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1027 clicks; posted to Business » on 17 May 2012 at 9:55 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-17 09:59:10 AM  
February 1, 2012, Aetna's Profit Rises 73%
 
2012-05-17 10:21:53 AM  
Buh but Obamacare fixed all that!
 
2012-05-17 10:27:53 AM  
What? You have a problem with profiting off people's suffering, Subby?

You unAmerican commie-nazi-socialismist. Maybe you should just go back to Botswana or something.
 
2012-05-17 10:37:06 AM  

AcneVulgaris: Buh but Obamacare fixed all that!


You're right, we should replace Obamacare with a single payer system.

That's what you want to happen right?
 
2012-05-17 10:41:28 AM  
*Looks at last year's budget spreadsheet*

$6600 for me and my family. Ok, so I am not moving to LA anytime soon.
 
2012-05-17 10:41:54 AM  
I WANT ANAL
 
2012-05-17 10:57:22 AM  
This family of 3 only paid about that in total taxes for 2011 in the People's Republic of Quebecistan.
 
2012-05-17 10:58:20 AM  

AcneVulgaris: Buh but Obamacare fixed all that!


I know you're just an asshole, but the overall goal of PPACA was never to lower healthcare costs, but to get more people insured while "lowering the curve" of future cost increases. It was also meant to be a first step towards finding other ways to lower costs, including reforms to Medicare and possibly a federal option.

All this was lost in the din of "ZOMG BAMMY GONNA KILL GRAMMY" shiat that the lobbyist cabal cranked out.

/carry on
 
2012-05-17 11:11:34 AM  
We're getting closer to the "healthcare event horizon", which is good. It means people will notice and do something about it.
 
2012-05-17 11:14:30 AM  
Point of reference for those keeping score.

Cost of covering family of five in Germany (on my salary anyway) €15,600 which is c.a $19,812 annually.

That being said, nearly all procedures and medications for children are thereafter free. Adult medications are somewhat subsidized (or rather there are price limits set by the State).

/But of couse we all know Euro Socialized Medicine is "free"
//Except it's not free
///Deducted from my pay every month
 
2012-05-17 11:18:22 AM  
Oh, is this where we pretend that my heavily government regulated health insurance provided by a government-chartered non-profit is screwing me due to greed? Or that the non-profit, government-run hospital and medical system that I choose to use is screwing me due to greed?

Fun fact: There are more government-run hospitals in the US than for-profit ones and for-profit US hospitals make up less than 20% of all US hospitals.
 
2012-05-17 11:19:28 AM  
25k for me, my girlfriend and my parents. It's over 2k per month, and it hurts.

The parents will be going on medicare soon, thank heavens.
 
2012-05-17 11:21:52 AM  

Ebbelwoi: Point of reference for those keeping score.

Cost of covering family of five in Germany (on my salary anyway) €15,600 which is c.a $19,812 annually.

That being said, nearly all procedures and medications for children are thereafter free. Adult medications are somewhat subsidized (or rather there are price limits set by the State).

/But of couse we all know Euro Socialized Medicine is "free"
//Except it's not free
///Deducted from my pay every month


How much do your taxes increase if you have a heart attack or cancer? Can they take away your coverage if you get a debilitating illness? How large of a premium do you have to cover every year before the government health coverage kicks in?

Maybe we can trade systems?
 
2012-05-17 11:29:28 AM  
"Employers pick up the balance."

I can't understand how the free-marketeers allow this SOCIALISM to go on.

Why do the job creators insist on saddling businesses with this expense?
Why no toss it off to the gubmint and go all-in?
Think of the savings in cost of doing business.
The economy would boom so loud we'd all go deaf. (Actually not really, since the greedy bastarts would just put that money in the bank.)
 
2012-05-17 11:30:25 AM  
Hrm, Im in a family of 3.

I pay $106 a paycheck, that is 2756. I have a $2400 deductible which has already been met, everything past this point is 10%.

Total so far is $5156.

Total OOP Max is $6500, so max I can spend in a year on my HC for the family is 6500 OOP plus my 2756 from paycheck for a total of $9256. But that is only if the absolute worst was to happen, I would have to to have over $65,000 worth of discount services to cough up the rest to fill the OOP. Even after the wifes pregnancy last year, high risk even, we didnt even get close to half that amount.
 
2012-05-17 11:31:00 AM  

Otherwise Just Fine: 25k for me, my girlfriend and my parents. It's over 2k per month, and it hurts.

The parents will be going on medicare soon, thank heavens.


Small price to pay for ongoing preventive and chronic care.
 
2012-05-17 11:33:21 AM  

Ebbelwoi: Point of reference for those keeping score.

Cost of covering family of five in Germany (on my salary anyway) €15,600 which is c.a $19,812 annually.

That being said, nearly all procedures and medications for children are thereafter free. Adult medications are somewhat subsidized (or rather there are price limits set by the State).

/But of couse we all know Euro Socialized Medicine is "free"
//Except it's not free
///Deducted from my pay every month


Your standard of living is high. Key word: Living. There is no upper price limit for being alive and healthy.
 
2012-05-17 11:38:06 AM  
Answering for Canada.

Carth: How much do your taxes increase if you have a heart attack or cancer?


Actually, they go down a lot, since you more than likely have to stop working.

Can they take away your coverage if you get a debilitating illness?

Not for citizens. For landed immigrants and foreign sutdents, they can ship you back home, mostly because a debilitating illness will force you to stop working or studying, thereby voiding your visa. If you wouldn't be able to receive similar or better care in your home country, they may decide to keep you for humanitarian reasons.

How large of a premium do you have to cover every year before the government health coverage kicks in?

0% for stuff that's covered. You walk in the hospital, community health centre, or doctor's office, hand in your card, and that's it.

100% for stuff that isn't covered (cosmetic plastic surgery, dental care, filling employment-related medical forms, etc...) or that you chose to get from the private sector instead of waiting in line (knee/hip surgery, MRIs, family doctor visits, etc...)
 
2012-05-17 11:43:30 AM  

Ebbelwoi: Point of reference for those keeping score.

Cost of covering family of five in Germany (on my salary anyway) €15,600 which is c.a $19,812 annually.

That being said, nearly all procedures and medications for children are thereafter free. Adult medications are somewhat subsidized (or rather there are price limits set by the State).

/But of couse we all know Euro Socialized Medicine is "free"
//Except it's not free
///Deducted from my pay every month


German health insurance for me and my husband comes to €550/month. My employer subsidizes €250 monthly, so our annual premium costs are €3600, or roughly $4600.

We're on private insurance, which supposedly covers more, but the drawback is that you usually have to pay for most medical procedures upfront. So far, we haven't used it much - but when we did use it, I was shocked at how low the costs were. For instance, I had surgery with general anasthesia, and the total cost was €400. Granted, I was sent home the same day, but it was still cheaper than an ambulance ride back when we lived In the US (and the reimbursement for which is still being denied by Blue Cross)
 
2012-05-17 11:50:34 AM  

Carth: AcneVulgaris: Buh but Obamacare fixed all that!

You're right, we should replace Obamacare with a single payer system.

That's what you want to happen right?


It would likely have been preferable to that POS bill that finally got passed. You know, the one that required budgetary legerdemain in order to ONLY increase costs by $800b over ten years (including ten years of taxes for five years of benefits, cuts to Medicare that would never have been allowed to actually take effect, etc.), and even then it barely scratched the surface of the uninsured.

Hell, I really wonder if we'd have taken Canada's system wholesale if it would have been more expensive than what we pay for Medicare, Medicaid, general private health insurance, etc. Given that the US pretty clearly gets less for its health care dollar than most other places, I doubt it.

I'm a free market guy and even I can see that single payer with across the board tax increases (from the high to the low... the rich can't afford to cover all our bills) to cover the costs would have been a better idea. It might have even been more constitutional than the individual mandate BS.
 
2012-05-17 12:01:17 PM  

MrBigglesworth: Hrm, Im in a family of 3.

I pay $106 a paycheck, that is 2756. I have a $2400 deductible which has already been met, everything past this point is 10%.

Total so far is $5156.

Total OOP Max is $6500, so max I can spend in a year on my HC for the family is 6500 OOP plus my 2756 from paycheck for a total of $9256. But that is only if the absolute worst was to happen, I would have to to have over $65,000 worth of discount services to cough up the rest to fill the OOP. Even after the wifes pregnancy last year, high risk even, we didnt even get close to half that amount.


You're not factoring in your employer's contribution in the cost.
 
2012-05-17 12:38:31 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: "Employers pick up the balance."

I can't understand how the free-marketeers allow this SOCIALISM to go on.

Why do the job creators insist on saddling businesses with this expense?
Why no toss it off to the gubmint and go all-in?
Think of the savings in cost of doing business.
The economy would boom so loud we'd all go deaf. (Actually not really, since the greedy bastarts would just put that money in the bank.)


No they don't. They just take the money our of your 'compensation' before they calculate your salary.

TANSTAAFL

You pay for all of your medical and all of your SS. Your employer is just the bookkeeper.
 
2012-05-17 12:47:11 PM  
But when the government takes it over, it will all be FREE! FREE I tell you! The unicorns will pay for it all!

When the government does it, it is run so efficiently (think DPS), the hours are great (think the Postal Service) and the people are so friendly. And it always a lot better and cheaper. And Free!
 
2012-05-17 12:58:05 PM  

blackminded: I know you're just an asshole, but the overall goal of PPACA was never to lower healthcare costs, but to get more people insured while "lowering the curve" of future cost increases. It was also meant to be a first step towards finding other ways to lower costs, including reforms to Medicare and possibly a federal option.

All this was lost in the din of "ZOMG BAMMY GONNA KILL GRAMMY" shiat that the lobbyist cabal cranked out.

/carry on


No, the only goal of Obamacare was for it to be a massive handout to the insurance industry, and mission farking accomplished. It was then released on the public as yet another ideological argument, with Dems like Pelosi saying things like "we have to pass the bill before reading it so we can know what's in it" and other such nonsense.

If you think Obamacare was ever meant to help out the little guy instead of his biggest donors, I've got a bridge to sell you. It's on a beautiful piece of land.
 
2012-05-17 12:58:14 PM  
$15,000 is what I pay each year, employer covers the other half. Best money I ever spent.
 
2012-05-17 01:18:14 PM  

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: February 1, 2012, Aetna's Profit Rises 73%


Always thought the best first step is do not allow for profit insurance companies and hospitals. Make them not for profit so they fall under the guidance of the state insurance regulator. Increase federal legislation slowly to cover more things, i.e. preexisting conditions, etc..
 
2012-05-17 01:31:31 PM  

Why Would I Read the Article: Dems like Pelosi saying things like "we have to pass the bill before reading it so we can know what's in it" and other such nonsense.


Nonsense indeed, as she never said that.
 
2012-05-17 01:54:34 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: "Employers pick up the balance."

I can't understand how the free-marketeers allow this SOCIALISM to go on.

Why do the job creators insist on saddling businesses with this expense?
Why no toss it off to the gubmint and go all-in?
Think of the savings in cost of doing business.
The economy would boom so loud we'd all go deaf. (Actually not really, since the greedy bastarts would just put that money in the bank.)


Other than your ridiculous parenthetical, you are actually right. Single payer would be beneficial for business.
Our current employer paid/employer mandate model sucks.

And youd be right to blame the GOP.
 
2012-05-17 02:05:43 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Why do the job creators insist on saddling businesses with this expense?


Because it raises the barrier of entry for competition. It benefits established companies to maintain the status quo.
 
2012-05-17 02:28:23 PM  

Carth: AcneVulgaris: Buh but Obamacare fixed all that!

You're right, we should replace Obamacare with a single payer system.

That's what you want to happen right?


Yep. Motivation for profit doesn't mix with healthcare... unless you're a psychopath.
 
2012-05-17 02:32:52 PM  

blackminded: AcneVulgaris: Buh but Obamacare fixed all that!

I know you're just an asshole


...because I've said something you think you disagree with.


, but the overall goal of PPACA was never to lower healthcare costs, but to get more people insured while "lowering the curve" of future cost increases. It was also meant to be a first step towards finding other ways to lower costs, including reforms to Medicare and possibly a federal option.

All this was lost in the din of "ZOMG BAMMY GONNA KILL GRAMMY" shiat that the lobbyist cabal cranked out.

/carry on


By fixing the percentage of premiums that must be paid out by insurance companies, the law provides a huge incentive for the insurance industry to drive health care costs higher to increase net profit. In fact, once everyone is insured, this is the ONLY way for insurance companies to increase net profit.
 
2012-05-17 02:44:33 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: HotIgneous Intruder: "Employers pick up the balance."

I can't understand how the free-marketeers allow this SOCIALISM to go on.

Why do the job creators insist on saddling businesses with this expense?
Why no toss it off to the gubmint and go all-in?
Think of the savings in cost of doing business.
The economy would boom so loud we'd all go deaf. (Actually not really, since the greedy bastarts would just put that money in the bank.)

Other than your ridiculous parenthetical, you are actually right. Single payer would be beneficial for business.
Our current employer paid/employer mandate model sucks.

And youd be right to blame the GOP.


As an American living in Canada, we desperately need to copy their system.

Growing up without health insurance was a nightmare for me and it is quite ridiculous that we don't have a single payer system considering its cheaper. I also find that there's more small businesses here because they aren't afraid of losing insurance.
 
2012-05-17 03:57:31 PM  
I post this every time there is one of these threads:

Right now, government spending (Fed+State+Local) on health care is more than enough, all by itself, to fully fund a single payer health care system at sane cost levels (like everywhere but America has). This spending comprises about 40% of what America spends on health care annually. Right now, your taxes are already enough to pay for health care - anything above this you are paying is just an insurance company stealing from you.

If this was done, and the other 60% of health care spending was collected in the form of increased taxes on businesses and the wealthy - and these taxes were used largely to pay off the national debt - within 15-20 years we'd have no national debt.
 
2012-05-17 04:31:59 PM  

aegean: But when the government takes it over, it will all be FREE! FREE I tell you! The unicorns will pay for it all!

When the government does it, it is run so efficiently (think DPS), the hours are great (think the Postal Service) and the people are so friendly. And it always a lot better and cheaper. And Free!


Why do you insist on believing Americans are inherently stupidier/less capable than Germans, Frenchies, and Canadians?

/doesn't sound like very patriotic talk to me
//why do you hate America?
 
2012-05-17 06:48:19 PM  

TIKIMAN87: I WANT ANAL


Try the Greek banking thread.
 
2012-05-17 07:07:30 PM  

Trolljegeren: TIKIMAN87: I WANT ANAL

Try the Greek banking thread.


lol good call
 
2012-05-17 10:24:03 PM  

MrBigglesworth: anecdote


Cool story, bro.

So you're on the half that brings the average down. That's nice for you. Other than that, your story doesn't mean a hell of a lot.
 
2012-05-19 01:26:42 PM  

Trolljegeren: I post this every time there is one of these threads:

Right now, government spending (Fed+State+Local) on health care is more than enough, all by itself, to fully fund a single payer health care system at sane cost levels (like everywhere but America has). This spending comprises about 40% of what America spends on health care annually. Right now, your taxes are already enough to pay for health care - anything above this you are paying is just an insurance company stealing from you.

If this was done, and the other 60% of health care spending was collected in the form of increased taxes on businesses and the wealthy - and these taxes were used largely to pay off the national debt - within 15-20 years we'd have no national debt.




Whoa whoa whoa don't get all crazy and suggest that preventative care is more effective and cheaper than our reactionary medicine and the emergency compassion care provided by public facilities to people that would not be able to pay for treatment and that is already that are paid for by our taxes already.


Common sense has no place in the health care debate, just like health has no place in the health care debate. It is sad that our current debate boils down to if we go to public health care system we negatively affect a private company. We are not going over to any system that is more effective both in treatment and cost because it will negatively affect a private company.
 
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