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(Deadspin)   A steal of home plate is great. It's even better when it gives you a walk-off win (w/video)   (deadspin.com) divider line 57
    More: Spiffy, home -plate, steals  
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3038 clicks; posted to Sports » on 17 May 2012 at 9:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-17 09:22:28 AM
I know baseball is a nice, old-timey sport, but did that have to be recorded with the first camera ever made?
 
2012-05-17 09:27:44 AM
kid was safe
 
2012-05-17 09:27:53 AM
LOL. Awesome. And I don't even like baseball.
 
2012-05-17 09:27:53 AM

Orgasmatron138: I know baseball is a nice, old-timey sport, but did that have to be recorded with the first camera ever made?


You weren't around in the 80s, were you?
 
2012-05-17 09:31:30 AM
He was out of the base path.
 
2012-05-17 09:34:44 AM
Ran out of the base path. I got called out for this in t-ball in 2nd grade.
 
2012-05-17 09:40:43 AM
Absolutely out of the basepath. OUT!
 
2012-05-17 09:40:55 AM
I would have called him out for going out of the baseline. If he would have dove or started his slide at that point and still touched the bag, that's established as a valid evasion tactic, but he didn't. He stepped way out then came back in to the bag in different actions.
 
2012-05-17 09:43:58 AM

bulldg4life: He was out of the base path.


You don 't understand the rules of baseball.
 
2012-05-17 09:45:45 AM

Orgasmatron138: I know baseball is a nice, old-timey sport, but did that have to be recorded with the first camera ever made?


I think it was filmed with the same stop motion technology that gave us the 1960s Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer special.
 
2012-05-17 09:49:27 AM
Wow. Catcher blocked the baseline but the guy had a nifty move to avoid it.

Pitcher wasn't happy....
 
2012-05-17 09:49:59 AM

bhcompy: I would have called him out for going out of the baseline. If he would have dove or started his slide at that point and still touched the bag, that's established as a valid evasion tactic, but he didn't. He stepped way out then came back in to the bag in different actions.


He's not out of the baseline. If you watch it, he goes no further than a runner who is coming in and trying to slide around a blocked plate. A similar play happens when a runner slides around the catcher, but misses the plate. He'll stand up and try to out-juke the catcher in his attempt to touch the plate. More times than not, the runner is "out of the baseline" then as well, but it's a call you simply don't make. This was a judgment call, but the right one was made.
 
2012-05-17 09:51:41 AM

Decillion: bulldg4life: He was out of the base path.

You don 't understand the rules of baseball.


Thank you.

Also, I know it's hard to think of in the moment, but the catcher had the ball. All he had to do was squat on the plate, but he dove and gave the runner the opening he needed. Was that a botched squeeze? It didn't look like the batter gave much of an effort to get the ball. In fact he pulled the bat away.
 
2012-05-17 09:53:48 AM

Decillion: bulldg4life: He was out of the base path.

You don 't understand the rules of baseball.


Thank you for beating me to it.
 
2012-05-17 09:54:10 AM

Decillion: You don 't understand the rules of baseball.


Feel free to enlighten me.

You get three feet on either side of the direct line to the base when a play is attempted on you.
img43.imageshack.us
img33.imageshack.us

That looks like more than 3 feet.
 
2012-05-17 09:54:58 AM

Cubs300: bhcompy: I would have called him out for going out of the baseline. If he would have dove or started his slide at that point and still touched the bag, that's established as a valid evasion tactic, but he didn't. He stepped way out then came back in to the bag in different actions.

He's not out of the baseline. If you watch it, he goes no further than a runner who is coming in and trying to slide around a blocked plate. A similar play happens when a runner slides around the catcher, but misses the plate. He'll stand up and try to out-juke the catcher in his attempt to touch the plate. More times than not, the runner is "out of the baseline" then as well, but it's a call you simply don't make. This was a judgment call, but the right one was made.


7.08
Any runner is out when --
(a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner's baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely

They give an exception(not explicitly defined) if you're sliding to avoid a tag as long as you can touch the bag in any way during your slide. In this case, he wasn't. He went out of the baseline to avoid the tag and then went to the base after the fact. He's out of the baseline.
 
2012-05-17 09:56:22 AM

bulldg4life: Decillion: You don 't understand the rules of baseball.

Feel free to enlighten me.

You get three feet on either side of the direct line to the base when a play is attempted on you.
[img43.imageshack.us image 640x324]
[img33.imageshack.us image 640x320]

That looks like more than 3 feet.


So are you saying when you come from 2nd to round 3rd and go home, you have to stay within 3 feet of the baseline?
 
2012-05-17 09:57:58 AM

babysealclubber: So are you saying when you come from 2nd to round 3rd and go home, you have to stay within 3 feet of the baseline?


Only if there is an attempt to tag you out.
 
2012-05-17 09:58:15 AM

babysealclubber: So are you saying when you come from 2nd to round 3rd and go home, you have to stay within 3 feet of the baseline?


No.

I specifically said "when a play is attempted on you". If there is no play being attempted at that time, you can run wherever the damn hell you choose. The moment a play (tag) is attempted on you, then your baseline is defined as a straight line from you to the base.

That's when the 3 foot rule starts.

You could run in a goddamn circle all you want as long as the other team is not actively trying to tag you.
 
2012-05-17 09:59:27 AM

Decillion: bulldg4life: He was out of the base path.

You don 't understand the rules of baseball.


Wait...you mean he didn't go three feet away from the line from where he was to home plate to try and avoid that tag?
 
2012-05-17 10:01:51 AM
I freeze framed through the whole thing, I think some part of his body was within three feet of the baseline the entire time. It's very close on the spin part.
 
2012-05-17 10:03:23 AM

bulldg4life: babysealclubber: So are you saying when you come from 2nd to round 3rd and go home, you have to stay within 3 feet of the baseline?

No.

I specifically said "when a play is attempted on you". If there is no play being attempted at that time, you can run wherever the damn hell you choose. The moment a play (tag) is attempted on you, then your baseline is defined as a straight line from you to the base.

That's when the 3 foot rule starts.

You could run in a goddamn circle all you want as long as the other team is not actively trying to tag you.


Well, I should read closer then.
 
2012-05-17 10:04:46 AM

The Muthaship: I freeze framed through the whole thing, I think some part of his body was within three feet of the baseline the entire time. It's very close on the spin part.


I've never seen it interpreted as "some part of your body", just your feet, which is why you can contort your way anyway you want to avoid a tag, but you need to be extremely careful where you put your feet. The rule says "runs"
 
2012-05-17 10:07:28 AM

bhcompy: I've never seen it interpreted as "some part of your body", just your feet, which is why you can contort your way anyway you want to avoid a tag, but you need to be extremely careful where you put your feet. The rule says "runs"


They do allow, as a practical matter, a runner coming in to home to be as far away as they can as long as they can reach out and touch the plate. It's not directly analogous, but he was in that range. Also, your whole body goes along when you run, and the rule doesn't say feet.
 
2012-05-17 10:09:34 AM

The Muthaship: They do allow, as a practical matter, a runner coming in to home to be as far away as they can as long as they can reach out and touch the plate. It's not directly analogous, but he was in that range.


They may be well outside the line on the field when the tag is attempted, too.

When coming around third, you could be 5+ feet from the actual baseline before the catcher has the ball and tries to tag you. If that is the case, then you could be a hell of a long way from the plate.
 
2012-05-17 10:15:41 AM

mohron: Also, I know it's hard to think of in the moment, but the catcher had the ball. All he had to do was squat on the plate, but he dove and gave the runner the opening he needed. Was that a botched squeeze? It didn't look like the batter gave much of an effort to get the ball. In fact he pulled the bat away.


I think it was going to be a squeeze attempt but it was a bad pitch (in the dirt and outside) so the hitter couldn't make contact and pulled the bat back.
 
2012-05-17 10:23:50 AM

The Muthaship: bhcompy: I've never seen it interpreted as "some part of your body", just your feet, which is why you can contort your way anyway you want to avoid a tag, but you need to be extremely careful where you put your feet. The rule says "runs"

They do allow, as a practical matter, a runner coming in to home to be as far away as they can as long as they can reach out and touch the plate. It's not directly analogous, but he was in that range. Also, your whole body goes along when you run, and the rule doesn't say feet.


That's because they establish the baseline as the line directly from you to the plate, basically. If the catcher is blocking the plate and you start your slide 5ft out of the baseline, you're essentially in the baseline as long as you're reaching for the plate. This guy wasn't doing that. His move avoided the tag first, which is where the 3ft measurement starts, and then started his slide/dive.
 
2012-05-17 10:29:54 AM

bhcompy: (a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner's baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely


So, as long as the runner doesn't stray more than 3 feet in or out from the imaginary line from wherever he is to home when the catcher dives for him, he's good? That is to say, the white chalk line doesn't necessarily apply with this rule, unless the runner is running right on the line when the catcher lunges for him?
 
2012-05-17 10:39:43 AM

madden101: So, as long as the runner doesn't stray more than 3 feet in or out from the imaginary line from wherever he is to home when the catcher dives for him, he's good? That is to say, the white chalk line doesn't necessarily apply with this rule, unless the runner is running right on the line when the catcher lunges for him?


Yes.

Hence why people aren't called out when they round third and are over near the coaches box on their way to home. There is no play being made on them at that time, so they can go wherever they want (within reason, I believe).
 
2012-05-17 10:44:33 AM
You could also make a case for interference as well, since the batters job is to gtfo of the way, and instead he sets a screen like he's running a pick and roll
 
2012-05-17 10:45:07 AM
www.businesscoachingbrain.com

YES!!! A baseball rules thread!!!
 
2012-05-17 10:50:37 AM

mohron: Also, I know it's hard to think of in the moment, but the catcher had the ball. All he had to do was squat on the plate, but he dove and gave the runner the opening he needed. Was that a botched squeeze? It didn't look like the batter gave much of an effort to get the ball. In fact he pulled the bat away.


He couldn't squat on the plate because the batter took a half step forward and was blocking the catcher's way. I don't know whether this kind of thing is EVER called, but that looked like the batter was interfering with the catcher's opportunity to make a direct tag.
 
2012-05-17 10:52:56 AM

RminusQ: He couldn't squat on the plate because the batter took a half step forward and was blocking the catcher's way. I don't know whether this kind of thing is EVER called, but that looked like the batter was interfering with the catcher's opportunity to make a direct tag.


Indeed. The catcher probably could have gotten a call if he initiated contact, but he went around him instead.
 
2012-05-17 10:59:11 AM
The batter needs to at least attempt to make contact on the squeeze play.

The catcher needs to sit his ass right on top of the plate and tag that motherfarker out.

While the umpire probably should have called him out of the base path, I can see how getting caught up in the act of the play would lead someone to forget that aspect.

The joys of high school baseball.
 
2012-05-17 11:07:08 AM

bulldg4life: Yes.

Hence why people aren't called out when they round third and are over near the coaches box on their way to home. There is no play being made on them at that time, so they can go wherever they want (within reason, I believe).


I knew that was never an issue. Just ask Ryan Braun:

cdn1.sbnation.com

I guess I just always assumed that, on plays made between home and 1st, and 3rd and home (where there are defined baselines), a runner couldn't stray too far outside the line. I didn't know that the distance in question was actually from wherever the player is at that point in time. And since players almost never run directly on the baseline (between rounding the corners and taking a lead from 3rd in foul territory, so as not to interfere), a player could conceivably be 5 feet off the line but still be kosher under the rule. That's good to know.
 
2012-05-17 11:08:36 AM
Now, here's an aspect of the rules that I have no clue about and would be happy to be enlightened on: the batter effectively set a pick for the runner. Not necessarily intentionally, but the catcher had to dive around him first to get to the runner, and dive again behind him after the runner did his nifty little move. Should there be some kind of batter's interference rule there?
 
2012-05-17 11:09:43 AM

slayer199: mohron: Also, I know it's hard to think of in the moment, but the catcher had the ball. All he had to do was squat on the plate, but he dove and gave the runner the opening he needed. Was that a botched squeeze? It didn't look like the batter gave much of an effort to get the ball. In fact he pulled the bat away.

I think it was going to be a squeeze attempt but it was a bad pitch (in the dirt and outside) so the hitter couldn't make contact and pulled the bat back.


That's kind of what I saw too. I just know that even if that's not the winning run, on a squeeze they teach you to do ANYTHING to protect that runner no matter how bad of a pitch. In this case it WAS the winner, so I expected a bit more of a fight for it.
 
2012-05-17 11:13:01 AM

Super Chronic: Now, here's an aspect of the rules that I have no clue about and would be happy to be enlightened on: the batter effectively set a pick for the runner. Not necessarily intentionally, but the catcher had to dive around him first to get to the runner, and dive again behind him after the runner did his nifty little move. Should there be some kind of batter's interference rule there?


The batter has the right to the batter's box. He can stand there throughout the entire play if he wants. It's usually in his best interests to move...and he usually will on a pitch to the backstop, but on a steal of home (which this was), he doesn't have to go anywhere...and in fact shouldn't.
 
2012-05-17 11:14:01 AM

bhcompy: You could also make a case for interference as well, since the batters job is to gtfo of the way, and instead he sets a screen like he's running a pick and roll


The batter doesn't have to do shiat as long as he is in the box. That's his area.
 
2012-05-17 11:15:47 AM

Super Chronic: hould there be some kind of batter's interference rule there?


I know there are rules about when a batter can leave the batter's box. And, they can be called out if they interfere with a catcher throwing or fielding while out of the batter's box or if they make a move to interfere in a play at home. But, he's in the batter's box and he doesn't really make a move to interfere.

I'm not sure what level of judgment would be given to the umpire in that case. I mean, if he's just standing in the batter's box it isn't like he is intentionally trying to block anyone.
 
2012-05-17 11:16:29 AM

Super Chronic: Now, here's an aspect of the rules that I have no clue about and would be happy to be enlightened on: the batter effectively set a pick for the runner. Not necessarily intentionally, but the catcher had to dive around him first to get to the runner, and dive again behind him after the runner did his nifty little move. Should there be some kind of batter's interference rule there?


There is an interference rule. It's most common to see it called when a right handed batter doesn't move out of the way on a catcher throw to third when someone is stealing third base. Most common still means it's highly uncommon, though

Applicable rules:
7.09
It is interference by a batter or a runner when --
(b) Before two are out and a runner on third base, the batter hinders a fielder in making a play at home base; the runner is out;
(c) Any member or members of the offensive team stand or gather around any base to which a runner is advancing, to confuse, hinder or add to the difficulty of the fielders. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate or teammates;
 
2012-05-17 11:24:17 AM

Cubs300: The batter has the right to the batter's box. He can stand there throughout the entire play if he wants. It's usually in his best interests to move...and he usually will on a pitch to the backstop, but on a steal of home (which this was), he doesn't have to go anywhere...and in fact shouldn't.


babysealclubber: The batter doesn't have to do shiat as long as he is in the box. That's his area.


Not completely:

6.06
A batter is out for illegal action when --
(c) He interferes with the catcher's fielding or throwing by stepping out of the batter's box or making any other movement that hinders the catcher's play at home base.

Umpires can and will call interference if the batter hinders the play, regardless of if he's in the box or not. In this case, the catcher could have probably gotten an easy call if he just went through the batter instead of around.
 
2012-05-17 11:28:55 AM
Kid was safe.
 
2012-05-17 11:30:59 AM
There's nothing wrong with being all tilty. His head is still within the three feet, so you can't say he left the baseline.
 
2012-05-17 11:35:36 AM

bhcompy: (c) He interferes with the catcher's fielding or throwing by stepping out of the batter's box or making any other movement that hinders the catcher's play at home base.


Like I said, standing your ground in the batter's box is legal. The batter doesn't have to go anywhere.
 
2012-05-17 11:37:43 AM

babysealclubber: Like I said, standing your ground in the batter's box is legal. The batter doesn't have to go anywhere.


There is an 'or' in there that's worth reading. If he actually makes a move to interfere with the catcher while inside the box, it's still interference.
 
2012-05-17 11:38:05 AM

babysealclubber: bhcompy: (c) He interferes with the catcher's fielding or throwing by stepping out of the batter's box or making any other movement that hinders the catcher's play at home base.

Like I said, standing your ground in the batter's box is legal. The batter doesn't have to go anywhere.


Or not
 
2012-05-17 11:40:31 AM

The Muthaship: babysealclubber: Like I said, standing your ground in the batter's box is legal. The batter doesn't have to go anywhere.

There is an 'or' in there that's worth reading. If he actually makes a move to interfere with the catcher while inside the box, it's still interference.


bhcompy: babysealclubber: bhcompy: (c) He interferes with the catcher's fielding or throwing by stepping out of the batter's box or making any other movement that hinders the catcher's play at home base.

Like I said, standing your ground in the batter's box is legal. The batter doesn't have to go anywhere.

Or not


If you stand where you are at, you are not going to get interference called in the box. The batter does not have to move to make the play easier for the catcher, he just can't move to make it harder.
 
2012-05-17 12:01:05 PM
Video removed
 
2012-05-17 12:01:07 PM

babysealclubber:
If you stand where you are at, you are not going to get interference called in the box. The batter does not have to move to make the play easier for the catcher, he just can't move to make it harder.


I'm not going to say the rule doesn't state what you've said, but I have seen it called regardless(where the batter stands like a statue directly in front of the catcher when the catcher tries to throw out a runner at third, for instance). Umpires interpret it their own way, and even if the call is egregiously wrong, good luck protesting.
 
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